pianoguy

Really? Maybe the poem was written about you

There once was a young lady from Lynn, Who was so exceedingly thin, That when she essayed to drink lemonade She slid through the straw and fell in. ~traditional

That's great Fred! I laughed a bit when I saw that you came out on facebook... I did the same thing.

This is a really wonderful poem by Billy Collins, an American poet. It's an old favorite of mine, and I think it might be nice for this forum to hear. Reprinted from link removed Remember the 1340's? We were doing a dance called the Catapult. You always wore brown, the color craze of the decade, and I was draped in one of those capes that were popular, the ones with unicorns and pomegranates in needlework. Everyone would pause for beer and onions in the afternoon, and at night we would play a game called "Find the Cow." Everything was hand-lettered then, not like today. Where has the summer of 1572 gone? Brocade and sonnet marathons were the rage. We used to dress up in the flags of rival baronies and conquer one another in cold rooms of stone. Out on the dance floor we were all doing the Struggle while your sister practiced the Daphne all alone in her room. We borrowed the jargon of farriers for our slang. These days language seems transparent a badly broken code. The 1790's will never come again. Childhood was big. People would take walks to the very tops of hills and write down what they saw in their journals without speaking. Our collars were high and our hats were extremely soft. We would surprise each other with alphabets made of twigs. It was a wonderful time to be alive, or even dead. I am very fond of the period between 1815 and 1821. Europe trembled while we sat still for our portraits. And I would love to return to 1901 if only for a moment, time enough to wind up a music box and do a few dance steps, or shoot me back to 1922 or 1941, or at least let me recapture the serenity of last month when we picked berries and glided through afternoons in a canoe. Even this morning would be an improvement over the present. I was in the garden then, surrounded by the hum of bees and the Latin names of flowers, watching the early light flash off the slanted windows of the greenhouse and silver the limbs on the rows of dark hemlocks. As usual, I was thinking about the moments of the past, letting my memory rush over them like water rushing over the stones on the bottom of a stream. I was even thinking a little about the future, that place where people are doing a dance we cannot imagine, a dance whose name we can only guess.

I'm pretty good! My summer job is always a bit boring but it pays the bills and gives me free housing, so I can't complain. I'm still in a relationship with the guy (Croatian too!) that I met last Feb. We've been living in different cities in different parts of the country so we haven't seen each other much although we talk on the phone alot. Thank God for cell phones and free nights and weekends. Have fun graduating!

Wow, foxlocke, haven't heard from you in a while... how's it going??

For the OP- ignoring the rock kicking since: I think we can learn two main things from this thread: 1) There are many diverse views on God and faith 2) It is extremely important to come to terms with how you view the world and to be secure in one's beliefs, whatever they may be. I think it is important to consider a wide variety of faiths at some point in one's life, but I also think it is a good idea to consider what faiths one may be predisposed to. If one is raised in a strong Catholic family, it is unlikely that one will ever feel as comfortable in a Buddhist community, for example, regardless of how much the faith appeals to one's rational/spiritual mind. Since most people settle close to the faith that they inherited from their parents, I like to direct people to consider the various denominations within Christianity. I don't think most people grasp what a huge range of beliefs there are within the Christian Church- if you go from a Baptist Church, to a Calvinist Church, to a Methodist Church, to a Catholic Church, the differences are striking, almost as much as changing to an entirely different religion like Judaism or Hinduism. I think it is important to try and visit churches from as many major denominations as possible, and to try and get to know them as well. In particular I am convinced that there needs to be a lot more visiting between Catholics and Protestants, you rarely see the two intermingling. Ideally, everyone would be able to be in my shoes- as a professional church musician I have changed churches every three years of my life, but during those three years I became deeply entrenched in the church that I was at, as I attended every single Sunday without fail, and all major holidays. The change has enabled me to get to know a wide variety of faiths very well, much better than just dropping in one Sunday as a curious visitor.

Fred- thanks for clearing me up, I was a bit confused. So the term transsexual- what does that mean or is it not used anymore?

Just for clarification- The people you identified aren't normally described as gay, I believe the correct term is transgendered (somebody correct me if I'm wrong please- is it transsexual?). Gay men don't have female sexual organs or the desire to be a woman. This is a different case altogether. A transgendered person is essentially "straight" as you would say but was forced at birth to take on the body of the incorrect gender. This is fortunately becoming less common as we develop a better understanding of sexuality. There also exist people that were definitely born with the correct organs for a particular sex, but feel that they are the wrong gender. These people appear homosexual to outsiders, but they essentially feel straight, just born in the wrong gender. These people are very rare, I don't know any personally, I believe the term used is transsexual. These are the people (along with transgenders) who would be interested in a sex-change operation. It's a complex world!

I guess I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. Mixing science with social agenda (on either side) is never a good idea and almost never works. You will observe that all of these studies mentioned are still in the very early stages and have not been without their share of critics. More importantly, the human brain is one of the areas of scientific endeavor that we still know almost nothing about. We have been studying the brain for some time, and still know almost nothing about it and how it functions. It's an incredibly complicated organ and all of the science on it is quite primitive. That said, I think it is interesting to think about the differences between the way women and men think and behave, but only to a point. When you start making blanket statements like, "men are more naturally suited to math," you will always be twisting the truth severely. The truth is that the variation within the SAME sexes with individuals is much, much greater than the overall variation between the brains of opposite sexes. In other words, I can find you girls that have brains that function very similar to mine, and boys that have brains that aren't even remotely like mine. The diversity is so great within the human race that it is almost (not quite!) a waste of time to compare such things. You will notice that I did say "not quite." I do believe it is worthwhile to study this topic. Another reason I'm concerned about these oversimplifications is that people will use this as an excuse- I'm not lazy, my brain is lazy! I'm not a bad person, my brain is predisposed to evil! I'm not bad at math, my brain is bad at math! Especially on a site like this where you see all these people who believe in Fate or that everything that happens to them is beyond their control. It becomes very dangerous very quickly. In summary- very primitive study, needs to be studied more before serious conclusions can be made. Be careful about drawing sweeping generalizations from studies in their early stages.

Out of curiosity- strange, what else was on the pamphlet?

Hi teulda, I'm sorry about your situation... that's pretty awful. I'm also sorry that the rest of the group didn't treat you well. Another thing I would suggest is severely limiting contact with the brother-in-law. It's easier to get over someone when you don't see them much. Also- he has no business making moves on you. I'm not sure if you said he is or not, but if he does you need to tell him to back off in no uncertain terms.

It sounds to me like your friend is attracted to you on some level. It's absolutely true that drunk people act the way they think when they are sober- in many ways I think a person's true self comes out when they're drunk. I would bring it up at some point. It's possible your friend isn't ready to admit that he likes you, or is afraid of being gay, so you have to be ready for it. Or you could always try getting him drunk again and if it happens again then you have your proof. BTW, how drunk was he? If he was just a little then this is very suspicious. If he was pretty sozzled then it's not quite as suspicious.

Ok. Alright, now he's not making sense. If you compare the two statements they directly contradict each other. My guess is that he's experiencing some kind of pressure, either from his family, or his friends, or his church, or somebody that's telling him that he needs to try being straight again. You mentioned he was closeted- it's likely that during your stay in the hospital he did some evaluation of the relationship and realized that if it continued, it was inevitable that he would be outed. So he decided to back off a little. I think he's simply afraid, afraid of being out, afraid of his sexuality. This puts you in a very difficult position. On the one hand, you deserve somebody who isn't afraid of being in an open relationship, on the other hand you love and care for this guy very deeply, and he sounds like he feels/felt the same way. If you decide to try and continue the relationship, you will simply have to be very patient and supporting. Do you know any older gay couples that could serve as mentors? It can help for your friend to meet a happy gay couple, to see that this kind of life is both possible and wonderful. You might also suggest he read the following book- "A place at the table: the gay individual in American society" by Bruce Bawer. I found it helpful- talks about how to live as a normal gay person in the world.

From what you're describing it sounds like the guy is depressed. It's a possibility that he is bisexual, or he may be depressed, or he may simply be straight and uninterested in your friend. Either way, I think it's fairly clear that he's not interested in your friend so I don't know why she would want to keep pursuing him. There isn't really any way to determine whether someone is bisexual or gay without asking them outright, unless you catch him making out with/checking out guys. For the time being, I think if you friend really feels this is worth pursuing, she should probably ask him if he feels attracted to her or something of that nature. Honestly the signs seem to indicate no, but it is her call to make.

It could. Have you tried rescheduling?

Hi buddafleye, Welcome to crush land! It can be kind of fun sometimes. I don't think you're quite as late a bloomer as you think. In our highly sexualized culture there is this idea that we have to be in relationships at 13 and 14, deflowered by 16, serial dater by 18, etc. With gay people it often takes longer, just because we don't realize what's going on as soon and it's so different from the mainstream. Me for example- I didn't really realize my crushes until I was 19, which is only a few years younger than you. After I realized what was going on, I realized I had had some crushes back further, maybe as early as middle school, although I can't remember anything from my elementary years. The story you told about your mom buying you outfits of girls you were transfixed with was really cute. In college I remember that I started dressing like boys that I liked- there was one that wore a lot of sweaters so I started wearing more sweaters, that kind of thing. *sigh* Try not to be too afraid of your feelings, and don't be mad at yourself for realizing this sooner- as I said it usually takes longer for gays and bisexuals. As for your family- don't underestimate them too much. Obviously I don't know them, but if they truly love you they will eventually come to terms with it, maybe not at first, but in the long run. I don't think there's any hurry to tell them though, just work through your feelings on your own for a while until you feel more comfortable. Do you know any gay people? Have you thought about going to a gay bar? Do you have any straight friends that you might be able to discuss this with?

At the risk of sounding stupid- Is this a girl you're interested in? You don't sound terribly excited from your post. If you're interested of course you should ask her out- I mean the worst that can happen is she can say no.

Since it kind of sounds like you know each other relatively well- maybe try something a little romantic that you think she would like. Maybe a nice restaurant or something. Just something that you both would really love to do and be romantic about it.

It's hard to say, it could be anything. Try to reschedule the date and set a firm time for it. If she cancells again I would take that for a bad sign- at the point let her do the initiating and setting up of dates. Also- the phone is better than texting generally, it's easier to judge intentions that way and its more personal.

Tidoman- Egads!! Winter presents better opportunities for dating than just about anything. I mean, everyone wants to be inside, and cuddle, and hot chocolate- it's great! Just think about what you would normally do by yourself to have fun. Anything indoors- bowling, board games, nintendo or whatever the kids these days play, bars if you're into that kind of thing, movies, invite your friends over and play string quartets (nerdy music majors only), uh- what else... dinner, coffee shops, indoor concerts, dances... basically anything.

Hi Greg, Looks do count for something, I think, not everything, but something. Feel free to sample any random thread here to see literally hundreds of guys and girls complaining that no one dates them because they're ugly. It's a bit funny really- these people say that they have these great personalities and nobody dates them because they look bad, and you say that you look great but nobody dates you because of your personality... who knows. Do you really think of yourself as boring? Very few people are truly boring, except some of the people in my dorm. Can you tell me something about you that you think makes you interesting, or that you find interesting? Can you tell me specifically why you think you're a wimp and what would remedy that? Again, I think you're rushing to conclusions here when you think that people perceive you in a certain way, especially if you're tall and athletic I doubt people look at you as wimpy. Tall quiet guy = gentle giant = teddy bear = hot.

That's ridiculous. We all know that women neither poop nor fart nor belch. I remember having to explain to a girl what belching is- most awkward conversation ever.

I've been trying to sort this out in my head and I think this is where we disagree. I think it is relatively clear that is is much more than a simple misunderstanding. That is certainly an element, but the fundamental element is MATURITY, namely on her part. This can't be resolved with a discussion like a misunderstanding can. Misunderstanding or no, there are some simple lines of ettiquete and respect that need to be maintained, which clearly are not in this relationship. We all get angry. We all have fights with our lovers. But regardless of how much you fight there needs to be some level of dignity and respect that is maintained. One of the special previlidges of a relationship is that you get to confide your dreams and fears to your lover, regardless of how ridiculous they are. One of the most hurtful things that your lover can respond with is by mocking your dreams or your deepest feelings. There have been times that I have done this to my boyfriend inadvertandently, when this happens I apologize profusely, unconditionally, and sincerely, usually followed by flowers or a puppy. She clearly has demonstrated no level of remorse for her actions. If you will review this thread you will notice that everytime she has called it has been in to reference to how SHE felt. She has, in short, demonstrated zero respect for his worth as a person and his feelings. You say they are in love. That, my friend, is not love. That is spite. Yes, he loves her. Of course he does. She doesn't love him. Young couple in love with a simple misunderstanding? I think not. So you can understand why I think a delay of a few days is not going to seriously harm this relationship. It might even help him to get some measure of dignity, which is what he needs most at this point. Do you sincerely believe that this relationship is not severely disfunctional? Do you really think that this talk is going to yield something productive? Do you honestly think that she was calling to apologize when she showed no tendencies to do so in the past?

Yeah, I don't think it would be right to ask someone out after one minute of conversation. You can't ask out every hot girl you run into in daily life. If you run into her again, maybe ask her to get coffee with you, if not, don't sweat it. There's more fish in the sea.