Shadows Light

Interesting. I just had tow unrelated males tell me in separate convesations that most men 80% are selfish when it comes to sex. If they get off thats all that matters. They don't take it a step further to make sure we are satisfied. For myself, I need the oral stimulations to get there...its a must. I've been forutunate in that respect, however, there are still many many times that I get left hanging... if you know what I mean. My adivce to you is to find what makes him tick. Spice it up...add some bedrroom toys into the repetoire. Sensuous massage. Music. Lighting. Candles. Insense... set the stage and set the mood. And don't take yourself too seriously have fun, giggle experiemnet. There are numours books out there on 101 ways to please a woman and visa versa... go get them and leave them laying around for him to read and get the HINT HINT.

Since she will be wearing a skirt... life is so much easier. Touch her legs, her calfs...admire the angle of her ankles... skimming ever so lighly up and down her leg... feeling the smoothness..appreciating the "great shave job" she did for you. Lightly run your had down the back of the knees... this is an erognous zone. Remember it fir future reference for when you get to taste instead of touch. Explore her hips and thighs. Pay special attention to the hip bones.... take the flat of your hand hand place it on top of her belly...just above the venus mond...and swirl it in a circular motion... then go down the the other leg..down the outside..down to her pretty toes and feet... maybe massage her feet a bit..and then skim you hand up the inner calf..and pay attention to the back of the knee..the feel of it.. the sensations. Move up to the inner thighs... slowly and take your time... and then you can cover your hand over her panties finally. And here...you're on your own kid. Take your cues from her where she wants you to proceed. However, the number one thing is do not rush it...take it slow slow and senusally...enjoy the feeling of her body...and she'll respond in kind. A womans body has many more erogonous zones than the obvious. Appreciate them all.

AAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhh The First Love. I have a first love I fell in love with at 16. And musch like your situation we bumped into each other from time to time. Even briefly resurrected the relationship. I think we both felt the same way. We talked about it... but for whatever reason, we went away our separate ways. Cherishing that one teeny tiny bright spark.."First Love"....and I don't have any regrets today some 20 years later. I have beautiful memories and I know I have a friend who thinks well of me.

Thank-you...this hits a special chord for me. I filed for Divorce in October. According to the old beliefs October is the time of change, the death of the old year and the beginning of the new year. But before anything new can be reborn, such as a PHOENIX from its ashes.... pain and suffering takes place. Your poem strikes a chord because I've spent my winter shedding bitter tears of time mispent... wasted youth. Looking for an escape now. And yes, listening to the lies lies lies spouting from the dragons mouth...feeding my tears. That only the angels could hear in the deep of the night. Thank-you. They say that when the student is ready the teacher comes... and the teacher comes in many forms...young, old...or written word. I believe your poetry speaks to me and validates my feelings.

There is also another book called: The Surrendered Wife. This book talks about letting your man think for himself. No matter how much it pains you. No matter how much you have to bite your tongue... sometimes its best to let them do it themselves...that way they don't grow to expect it from you. As in all books... pick and choose what may be right for your situation. You can only change yourself and control yourself. So...look to make yourself happy...and the rest will follow. Good-luck

Alona, Get out and stay out now. He's gone past the point of no return. Emotional and mental abuse is bad enough... but its gotten physical. I am a testement to it doesn't get better. I married mine. I'd been with him for 18 years. And yes.. many many good times. And during the bad times... well I rationalized and thought that Children would give us the stability that we needed. It didn't. And now... I'm locked in a bitter divorce. And how do I protect my children who HAVE to go to thier fathers. He's turned the tables on me...like its all me. I'm crazy. He's going to break the cycle and make sure he raises his girls to be NOTHING like me. My self-esteem. Almost nill. Don't do this to yourself. Get out and stay out. Look at your first family...relationships... did this happen in your mom and dads relationship.... why is it you feel you needed to stay? We choose mates sometimes based on familiarity. I did. And look what happened... good luck... to you.

If you have a chance... go to the library and pick up these two books to read... THE DANCE OF INTIMACY And THE DANCE OF ANGER by Harriet Lerner, PH.D. They may help you with your decision making process. Only you can make that decision. And you are right, the more you PUSH.. the more he's going to go the OTHER way. You Over-produce and He'll continue to UNDER-Produce. What I hear you saying is.."He's put you into a position of "BOSS" and you do not like it. You want him to take more initiative and step up to the plate." I do not know what to tell you, to change it. However, I can tell you...that you can not change him... You can only change yourself...and control yourself. You are also out of a job. So, concentrate on YOU. IF you leave him... how will you survive???? Put your energies into YOURSELF right now. And maybe if you're energies arn't focused on him... he will slowly come around. I hope this helps.

Red Flags? Yeah. So many I should have had "sun glasses on"... but he pushed them all aside for me. Said it was premarital jitters. Said he'd make it right. Said he'd be different from my dad, from my parents dismal marriage. Good book... "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner and she also wrote.."The Dance of Intimacy." What I've learned so far from her ...is that we pick up baggage from our first family and carry it over into our relationships. Both of us. Yes... I had a dear MIL too who warned him, warned him I had more problems than a chineese math book... because, 6 months before our wedding day, my parents split, after 25 years of unhappy marriage. We got married and one week later my parents divorce came through. At times I ask myself.... was I only trying to run away from a bad situation... from the frying pan into the fire? I don't know. I thought I was in love. And I question that today too... for what is Love? I read an interesting quote recently... "LOVE is loving someone no matter what. Expecting nothing in return. Loving them for who they are.. what they are... not trying to change them." According to this definition... No, I didn't love... for I saw POTENTIAL. HE had dreams, he had goals, he seemed like he had direction... somewhere along the line.. all that fell away. Dreams died. Goals diminished. Direction was status quo. Instead of being taken care of... or should I say taking care of each other, I felt taken advantage of. Always givng more than I got. Pulling the plow for the both of us. Always thought MIL was at fault... she told me "YOU HOLD UP 3 corners of the house"... that just isn't right. RED FLAGS? Yes. Drinking. Temper Tantrums. Apathy. and it just spiralled. Red Flag.. yep, but I did the marriage counseling bit... and even went to counseling for myelf. They said... "Run, Leave.... do it now." And I said..."oh no... if we only had children it would fix it." For an educated woman... How stupid could I have been. And it continued.... verbal abuse, mental abuse... all control. ON and ON... and I just snapped... one day I said.. "enough".... and it has not been an easy ride... am having so many guilty feeling. Am having so many second thoughts. Did I do the right thing? Am I doing the right thing? What will become of my children? How will this affect them? But I did it not only for myself but for my children. He said... he flipped when his mother died. 3 years ago. True... the spiral took a sharp downturn then, but it was manifesting itself for years. I'm learning so much about myself in this introspection. I'm learning that I am the way I am... because my mother "DID" for everyone for so long. I'm learning he is the way he is.. becuase his mother did the same... so he expects it. I had a dream a few weeks ago. The dream scared me. It was reliving a night when my H. went nuts... over something totally unrelated to me or my children. He had had a fight with his brother. And he was in our kitchen screaming. Obsenities. Ranting and raving and swearing. My children were behind me... my youngest hiding behind my oldests back. My H. lost control and started to throw everything not nailed down and breaking things... I took my children and hid in a bedroom. And I called for help... family.. his, they never came. I made a mistake. I should have called the police. My dream that I relived?? instead of my husband... I saw my DAD. And it was my mother who stood between HIM and US. I was protecting my little brother... wanting to take him away and hide.. but not wanting to leave my mother. I woke up in a cold sweat. I realize whats happening here.... my husband was turning more and more into my dad. And my father was a very physically and emotionally abusive man. I grew up in that.... and I didn't want my girls to grow up the same way. My husband was starting to treat my girls the way my dad treated me. His yelling and screaming at them... went from zero to sixty. So part of my leaving... was breaking the cycle. Breaking the dance... to save myself. To save my children... and if my H. ever wakes up... maybe to save him too. Maybe we can all grow to be better people. I don't know. I tried a reconcilliation. We went to counseling 3 sessions. And I just shut down. I found myself retreating into my shell everytime H. was around. I couldn't help myself. And finally, he blew up again... took him 3 weeks to reach boiling point and lose patience with me. So, I kicked him out. I've been reading a lot on relationships. Emotional and verbal abuse. And read that ...Most women will go back 3-4 times before they finally leave. And I understand why... because I am so scared on the other side. So.. yes, the Answer to your question is YES..there were red flags. Red Flags that I thought could be overcome... no one is perfect. And maybe those RED FLAGS could have been overcome... had we or I not let them go on for so long. I don't know. I'd like to believe that there is "LOVE" ever after. Or else, all the poets, writers, artists, and musician... were wrong. So very very wrong...and only in search of something that is like the fountain of youth and doesn't exist.

Change your option of "NO CONTACT"... you are the one who instilled it and to get any communication you need to lift that veil first. The fact that she called you a few times last week... shows interest on her part. Caller ID? Well, then call her back.. no pressure, ask if she'd called and why. Got to get an opening somewhere. Getting into deep issues of phycoanalysis... I don't know... that sort of thing is best dealt with as time passes and trust builds. If you get an opening of..."I want to go out, have fun and no strings relationship.." then its a start...just spending time with her, without pressure of resurrectiong emotional baggage may help build the trust she needs. Why does she shut down? What was her family life like.. her mom and dad? Ask about her family but don't dig... see what she offers.. it may give you insight into what makes her tick. And Romance the hell out of her. All of us.. want and need to be romanced... flowers, poems, music, a hershey kiss (just one)... that type of thing. Thats my two cents.... and I'm sticking to it. Good-luck.

There is nothing Wrong with you. It's him. Belittling you, disparaging remarks, all go toward questioning yourself and asking yourself.."is there something wrong with me... I need help." I've done this. Wondered what I was doing wrong. I also took care of him. And had the same issue with his personal hygene... I felt like he was one of my kids..."did you brush your teeth." and "omg, whens the last time you showered." Things just piled and piled and mounted on top of each other. Outside forces, family... etc etc. Yes... and when I finally left him.. his employer had a few choice words for me... if I could trust the feedback I was getting from DH. Emplyer was convinced that I found someone else. Great. No... there is nothing wrong with you. And stop while you are ahead. He's only interested in him and what this is doing to him. Not you. Take care of YOU. You are the only one you have control over...and can change. Oh... and the bit about the argueing and where you just stopped because it was non-productive... been there. I finally shut down from all barbs, and cynical remarks or what looked to be an opening motion toward an argument... and what happened.. he just turned the heat up higher. Claimed I wasn't talking to him..."no, I"m just not going to participate in an argument. about no talking.. I"m ignoring all barbs, put downs and choice name calling and letting them slide off my back. And that infuriated him. So.... no.. YOU are not crazy and you are not alone. What you are dealing with is an Adult Child and a master manipulator who only cares for himself.

I've been married to my husband for 15 years. When we started dating we had the one thing all relationship experts say is a must..."communication" and intimacy. Although we were physically attracted to one another, heavy heavy make out sessions and petting... it took my then boyfriend nearly 9 months to have sex with me. His excuse, chivalry... he "wanted to make sure he loved me." I bought it hook line and sinker. Our sex life like a roller coaster... medicore to great. We eventually married. My husband became preoccupied with pornography...in the beginning it didn't bother me. However, once you've seen one porn flick, you've seen them all. And eventually I became turned off by the whole genre... seeing it as degrading to women and desensitizing. He continued with is pornographic fetish...and with the advent of the Internet, entered further. The crux of my dilema....our sex life in our marriage not only became a roller coaster ride... but there would be frequent STOPS. 3 months. 6 mths. 9 months and no Sex. I became like Mrs. Roper in 3's company chasing her husband around the house while he made excuses that the lawn needed cutting or something needed attention. And the porn continued. Recently... while looking up a file in the hard drive of our computer... I found a file containing 100s of porn pix. When I opened each and ever one of them I was shocked. The majority...if not all of the pictures were of MEN and MEN. You can imagine my shock. Because through out our relationship.... especially in the beginning.. I'd had a little voice telling me...something is not as it should be. When I confronted my husband, the first time, he said they were pop up's... SPAM. I believed him. Then... our marriage really went on the rocks. He started paying less and less attention to me. He started becoming preoccupied. He started drinking more. He started being angry more often. He started belittling me privately and publicly. Our marriage was headed in the WRONG direction. Not being computer savy... I'd asked a few computer litterate people how POP ups can come up in a permanent folder. They can't. He filed those pix. When I confronted him again... He said quietly.."I am not a homosexual... I'm not, I was curious." Not let me ask you..... How many of you think this is NORMAL... and what would you do? I have filed for divorce. Not just based on this Discovery. But everything. We have two little girls. And his Anger extends to them... he goes from zero to sixty yelling at them. Never mind that he doesn't help me with them, taking care of them. Nor does he help around the house. He's involved in his own hobbies and is gone a few times a week. Leaving me to deal. I have no time for me. And there is no us time. If I ask him to do anything around the house its "yes massa" or tells me "he's not a mind reader.." so I ask. Irritated, h*** yes, I get irritated, then I'm called a B****, Nag, and the wonderful "C" word... I not only am responsible for care of the kids, I am responsible for him.... getting his clothes together for work... etc etc. I'm exhausted. And have I mentioned I work 40+ hours a week. Last summer he totally disengaged personally. He didn't notice that I'd spent 8 months sleeping on the couch. How do you not notice. I'd tried counseling 8 years ago... and over the years.. I've been to counseling for me and on and off anti-depresents. All my counselors concluded its not me. My thinking was clear. And yet I hung on. Love, honor, cherish, till death due us part ...right? I tried it all. Making dates with him. Pointing out other positive couples and how they manage their lives...(I'm one of those who learns from watchng other people both their successes and mistakes)... I tried the Sexy lingerie... which BTW.. I could have save tons of money and not bothered. I started feeling as if I wasn't beautiful enough.. started looking at myself more critically. What was I doing wrong??? The few friends I have who are mine... (and I have to stress that) assure me over and over again... its not you. He definitely has a low self esteem of himself... and he has this dark outlook on life. As if life is over at 18... after that.. its all down hill from there. No dreams. No aspirations. No goals...other than financial. Since, I made my decision to make a break for it. Its been h***. He was shocked. Did we not live in the same house together? Were you not listening? He's done everything from whine, scream, belittle, accuse, he's left me financially in a bind... won't help with the kids financially. He's cut me off from all of "OUR"friends.. told them some "whoa is me" story. He blames my mother and all of my "friends"... my friends are a sticking point... some are people I met through work. I've known them for years. He contends they are NOT my friends but co-workers. He has accused me of not being able to have a sustainable relationship...his counselor told him this ( who has never met me) and that I don't know how to LOVE someone.. I am incapable of love. We did the marriage counseling bit and he swore the counsler said I was going through.."MID-LIFE" crisis..and quote..he doesn't want anything to do with it. She assured me... she never said that.. nor would she. I struggle through this divorce. I feel guilty. I am depressed. I am saddened. What makes me so sad is that I did love him. And now I don't have any feelings for him. The internet porn stuff... that just blows me away... when I saw it.. I felt less than. I felt that I wasn't what he wanted. I felt the ultimate betrayal... could that explain the absense of intimacy, his ever growing anger and disatifaction with life? I don't know. And I don't care to find out. I know that if I stay... what little is left of "me" will be lost. I know if I stay... my kids will be imprinted with what a loveless marriage looks like. And the violence and anger. His temper tantrums extend to break things. Not all the time... but how many times is too many.

I agree... you have done the right thing for your boys and YOU and have taken the courageous step of getting out. My girls are 6 and 3 and I keep telling them I love them. I do not talk about their father negatively at all. In fact I tell them all the time he loves them. I told my 6 year old why.... I told her its because of the "fighting" and its not nice to fight...and if we don't live in the same house, we won't fight anymore. She understands. And seems to be adjusting. Their father... has become the "DisneyLand Dad" all of a sudden he's doing things with them and for them that he's never done before. The picture of a "perfect dad" and I say.."WONDERFUL" good for him. For his sake, I hope he keeps it up... because children.. are very smart...they WILL figure things out on their own sooner or later. So saying, you do not have to say anything to your boys...just remain positive. Do not go back.. it will get worse, he will hold this against you forever. The other posts are correct. Abusers will manipulate and yes...its never their fault. Mine started out so very subtley that I look at myself today and wonder... How the hell did this happen. Courage... Stay strong... and believe in yourself.

Your situation rings many bells for me. My husband also has a nasty temper. That has been progressively getting worse by the year. It is exasperated by Alcohol to some extent. And I've been emotionally and verbally abused. I finally had enough. I filed for divorce last September. And am going through the same feelings of guilt and depression you are. I have two little girls 6 and 3. And the guilt tears me up inside. However, I have come to the realization that I can not help him. He's done the Anger management thing 7 years ago. We've gone to marriage counseling. Throughout our 15 year marriage... I have been through counseling myself time and again for depresson and gone on anti-depresents... and come to the realization that "its not me". I can not change him. I can only change me and how I react to the situation. Since the break-up he has used every method in the book to manipulate me into taking him back. Promises of changing. Sweet talking me. Crying and yes.. he's used the big guns... "I'm going to kill myself... life is not worth living....I love you so much." And you know what.... this time around... I have to think about me... I have to think about my children and how his ANGER is going to imprint them. He thinks that I am wooping it up... having a grand ol time. He's accused me of having an affair. He has called everyone of "our friends" and sold them a "whoa is me story." He has shut my out financially... I stupidly singed a 90 day reconsilation and all court precedings stopped.. including child support. And now........ I can no matter how painful it is to me.... I know...that I have to do what I have to do for my sanity...and my children. Through therapy I'm coming to realize that verbal and emtional abuse is no different from Physical abuse. And I have been conditioned and programmed to keep taking him back... keep forgiving him... keep making excuses for him. You my dear... are doing the same thing. Feeling torn, guilty and depressed is normal. Or so I am told. Its part of the healing process. And we both need to get through it. Take it one day at a time. I mark off check marks on my calendar for days that I did not cry... I consider it a good day. So far, the month of March... more checks than X marks...and I just keep myself busy.... and try to love my girls as much as I can. God Bless and keep you walking in the light.

Ditto's on all other posts. Do not hurt yourself. It's not a solution. Take it from someone who has thought about it. Yes and had a plan. You need to tell someone immediately if that thought keeps popping up in your head. Sometimes we feel cornered by our problems. And it doesn't seem like there is a viable way to solve it. Believe me. Although, it may not be readily apparent right now, at this moment... there is always another way, instead of what you are contemplating. LIFE... is so very precious and beautiful. You have one time to go around. One time to experience all the joys and live. My solution? I picked up the phone and called my MD. the perscription I was on wasn't working for me. Then I got into counseling. And... finally, I started finding all the little things that would bring me back up... Music... I found a new genre of MUSIC at my age (38).. Heavy Metal, Alternative Rock.... LOL. And I started reading... and drawing again. Redirecting my energy to something else. I started walking... physical activity. I started to dream again... about all the things that I would like to do... put them down on 3x5 cards...and am looking for ways to fufill those dreams. Little ones and big ones. You can not fix your mother. You definitely can not fix your father. You can only change you... if there is one thing I have learned... I can only change myself and how I react to situations. Those are their deals... not yours. And at 17.... darlin.. trust me... trust me when I say... it will get better. And it is worth it. God doesn't put anything on your door step that you can't handle. We may not always like it...but the lessons and experience gained from it are always worth it.