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  1. Half the dating advice on the internet and even on here is always this attitude that you should just go for it. It's a strange part of North American culture. I'm assuming most on this forum are from the US or Canada and if you're native language is English, most of the dating articles out there originate from the US. American culture tends to be more optimistic than the other cultures of the older world. This is a good thing. Don't get me wrong. It's partially the reason for the prosperity and innovation that occurs on these shores and why people around the world want to immigrate here. However, as with anything, it has its dark side. This default reflex of just telling people to go for it can be detrimental to those who have difficulty dating. Internet and digital culture makes everyone want a quick fix to their problems. Instead of investing in time learning skills or improving yourself in some way to become a more attractive dating prospect, this is often too hard and most of all, it takes too long, for most people. I don't necessarily mean just physically unattractive people. When you express your desire for someone, suddenly it's not just your problem anymore. It now involves two people. When was the last time you enjoyed rejecting someone who put it on the line and expressed their desire for you? Not just romantically rejecting someone but any kind of rejection where you have to refuse someone's friendship or even someone's invitation to a party because you just didn't like that person for whatever reason. Unless you have a dislike for that person or you're a psychopath, most of us don't enjoy rejecting others. Because we know how it feels to get rejected, we don't want to do the same to others. What's the alternative? Well, doing things the hard way. Like learning to read people. Becoming socially more confident and self-aware. Learn good conversational skills and how to present yourself in a charming way without appearing fake or approval seeking. Seek out hobbies/interests that you enjoy and can occupy your life which will make you more interesting to other people and also give you something to talk about with complete stranger and who knows, maybe even make a genuine connection with someone who has similar interests. The key word here is genuine connection. These are far and few in between. But when there is a real connection between a man and a woman, often just "going for it" becomes a much more easier and natural process. For those who have difficulty dating and who simply haven't put in the work, telling someone you barely know and haven't formed any kind of rapport/connection can only lead to multiple failures that will only reinforce their belief that they are unworthy and unlovable. Both men and women are guilty for giving each other this kind of advice. How many times has a guy heard his female friends to just "go for it and talk to her" or "just ask her out?" Men do the same thing with their female friends. The problem isn't that they have bad intentions. Most likely, they do want you to be happy. The problem is, these friends of yours already know you. They already like you (hopefully) and trust you. That person you're interested in who doesn't know you doesn't have the same mentality. Also, often the men and women who tell their friends to just go for it are just living in their own heads. In their own heads, they're imagining an ideal scenario where a girl or guy who is their "type" approaches and asks them out. Well of course if its someone you're already attracted to, you'd want them to just come over and ask you out. You already like them! But what about in the case where a young woman is asked out by a much older, unattractive male colleague? What if a woman who is the academic, career-oriented type and is very accomplished is asked by a guy who is barely employed and has no career prospects but is only interested in her cause of the way she looks and dresses? Some situations and circumstances you have with others will just never work. It's not your fault or their fault. It's just how life is. The stars just didn't align. When I lived in the UK and parts of Asia, I notice the people were much more cautious and conservative with regards to dating. They just seemed more self-aware of both themselves and other people. It's not that they were less friendly and open. It's more that they preferred to feel out the situation and circumstance and get an understanding of the other person before making a "move." Not saying these cultures are superior but when it comes to dating, I think more genuine connections are likely to form. After all, you wouldn't tell someone who grew up in a tropical country and has never seen ice before to go out there and strap on a pair of ice skates and go out and skate amongst people who have skated for years. So why do we tell people who lack experience with the opposite sex and are socially awkward or simply just haven't developed the self-confidence yet to just "go for it"?
  2. You seem to have all the right witty answers to anything I write. You can disagree with me but instead of making constructive counter-arguments to my points, you are making personal attacks. That shows again that you're taking what I said out of context and missing the overall point. Others seem to get it and you clearly don't. I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting here.
  3. I wrote it. And I own it. So what? What's your point? And when did I claim that I have knowledge of all women? That seems to be something you're insinuating and not me.
  4. In my 20s, I had this ideal girl in my head, this fairy tale. The girls I pursued were all ones who matched this fairy tale. Except after many bitter experiences, I realized I'm no Prince myself. I'm flawed just like everyone else. Putting up this persona/facade was a waste of time. Life is messy. Relationships are messy. Humans are messy. That's life. Time to embrace that and accept that. Physically attractive women have more sensitive radars when it comes to detecting authenticity. Mainly because they are approached so often. They get a feel and learn to read men better. So when a truly genuine man comes along, she appreciates it. Even when that genuine man is not the most handsome, most confident, most secure individual. She can detect those white knights who put up this facade from a mile away so she appreciates a truly genuine man. Someone who isn't afraid to admit his own flaws. And also someone who goes after what he wants in life despite all his flaws and insecurities. I truly believe this is what women really want.
  5. I will refrain making specific examples that just spring to my head because it seems like people such as yourself take offense very easily. My examples such as Christian Grey and women experiencing pain during childbirth were meant to reinforce my overall point. I perhaps chose bad examples. But you and other posters have taken them out of context to make personal attacks on my character and you fail to realize they were simply meant to reinforce a broader point. Because of that, this thread has degenerated into personal attacks rather than discussing the topic itself. We indeed live in a very PC-society where everyone must be very careful of what they say. There is no such thing as just saying what's on your mind. Everything must be edited and re-edited. Sounds a lot like the white knight/nice guy behavior to me. No wonder there are so many white knight men out there in society now. Instead of wearing their heart on their sleeve and perhaps making mistakes or saying the wrong thing, we now want men to constantly be self-conscious and put up this facade of perfection and properness. And then women wonder what happened to the spontaneous, genuine men who aren't afraid to speak their mind and show vulnerability. The very attitude and hostility that you and others have displayed on here towards me reinforces my point about how society today is structured towards making men into white knights/nice guys while at the same time blaming that very behavior on why they're not attractive to women. I don't re-edit my posts. When I'm typing these things, I type and then I post. I say what's on my mind. I chose bad examples. I should never have brought up 50 shades of grey or childbirth but that's just the first thing that popped into my mind at the time. Also with you being a female, I refuse to believe that you're attracted to the kind of man who re-edits himself constantly as to not offend others. Somehow, in all my dealings with women in real life, I find they appreciate vulnerability and weakness and mistakes as long as they are made through honest effort. But in online mode where we're all strangers, PC-ness seems to take priority.
  6. I did have an agenda posting this. My intention was not to troll nor to offend but I've been reading the posts on this forum for awhile before I created an account and started posting. Most of the topics are from men and women coming from a desperation mindset. I could relate to a lot of the posts and being a man, I can only speak for my own gender, so I thought I shared my two cents of wisdom. It was not my intention to come off as arrogant and reading back on my OP, I don't think I did. I think it's more the case that a lot of people don't like to hear the truth. I totally get it. In my 20s, if someone had accused me of being a white knight, I would be bothered too. But the truth is hard to hear. Yes I do have dating troubles, just like a lot of people do. In no way was I trying to deny that. But my current dating troubles vs the dating troubles I had in my 20s are different. I'd like to think I've evolved. I get fewer dates and connections these days but that has a lot to do with me being pickier and having more self-knowledge and also just having less time and patience for dates that I know will lead to nowhere. I want authentic connections with women who I truly enjoy the company of and it's gotta be mutual too. That's very hard to find. As for women I'm simply attracted to physically, if I feel like we have nothing in common and no connection, I'm not gonna pursue it. I've worked hard in creating a life of my own and I'm busy most of the time.
  7. Yah groupthink is the all encompassing thing around white knighting. White knights are the biggest group thinkers of all. They have the biggest herd mentality. They hate sticking out and risking criticism from people, especially from women. And when they see a fellow male who is being ostracized by the female community, they jump on board the bandwagon. I know these things because I spent most of my 20s being a white knight. I've been a white knight all my life until I decided to make some drastic changes. Now I'd rather be hated by most people in a group and be liked by a few individuals. It took the longest time for me to realize that women didn't need any saving and that they are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves and that I needed to "save" myself first.
  8. Ironically for a thread that is anti-white knight, there's an awful lot of white knighting going on in this thread, especially from the male members. One mention of Christian Grey and the fact that I found it amusing when a woman winced in pain and all of a sudden I'm this monster. Yah I acknowledge I have some issues. But a lot of the white knights on here probably have their own dark side but like most white knights, instead of acknowledging and embracing their own dark sides, they make fun and ostracize the guy in order to curry favour with the women on here. At least female members such as you and Katrina are willing to talk and discuss the issues instead of just purely passing judgement. That's the problem with white knight men. They put on this facade of being totally clean and proper and hiding all their flaws and dark desires. This kind of behavior is becoming more prevalent in today's society where men are so insecure themselves and so desperate for female approval.
  9. The underlying problem isn't drugs. People with addictive personality such as myself and your ex seek out drugs and other addictive substances because there's something in our nervous and psychological system that is just drawn to it. Was your ex a perfectionist? Was he very successful in his career? Did he have some sorta hobby that he was obsessive about it? Taking drugs or alcohol is just one manifestation of addiction. You mix that with trust issues in relationships. I don't think I truly enjoy hurting women. I think what I enjoy is the highs and lows. Without the lows, you can't truly experience the highs. It's the same reason I get off on stress in an important project at work. And why I enjoy performing in dance. I enjoy the high of uncertainty and the unpredictability. I'm a very shy and quiet person and so I tend to attract nice women who are seeking stable healthy relationships. But these same women because of their nurturing instincts, once they find out the real me, they want to "cure me" and turn me into a more relaxed, easy going, stable person. I'm 34 years old now and I'm off drugs and alcohol. I seek healthy outlets now. I'm also mellowing out. I can totally foresee in a few years where I'll be ready for a nice, safe, stable relationship and be able to enjoy it.
  10. It took a massive heartbreak for me to change too. I too was an addict. I still struggle with addiction sometimes but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. The thing with addicts is, if you give a mouse a cookie...he's gonna want a glass of milk. He totally fed off you letting him off the hook. I really got off on hurting my ex and then pleading for forgiveness and each time she took me back, I'd be good for awhile and then go back to my ways. It was like a great high when she took me back. True change only occurred after I realized I had gone too far and she was truly done with me. Although like you, she never really stopped caring for me.
  11. Except being yourself is just as bad advice to give to someone who is unattractive and having trouble dating. What has "being himself" done for him so far in life? If being himself was so great, why isn't he having more success in dating? Obviously, being himself is not good enough. That is not to say he should undergo a personality transformation. First off that's impossible. But he should be looking at the things he can change and improve on. Even seemingly small marginal improvements can go a long way. The saying of "big things have small beginnings" is totally true. However, self-improvement is a long-term thing and most people don't have the will to see it through. They'll put in effort for a couple months and get frustrated when their lives don't improve. The thing is, these unattractive dateless guys, it's worth it more to invest time and possibly money into self-improvement than it is to waste money at bars/clubs hoping to get lucky with a lady. Self-improvement is long lasting and increases one's self-confidence and self-worth. What's more, guys with white knight behavior tend to care very much about what other people think. Often times, when a nice guy white knight who is unattractive and can't get dates embarks on a journey of self-improvement, he will take criticism from others very seriously. The detractors will often be close family members and close friends, people whom you thought would be most supportive. I kinda get what you're saying. There's no miracle formula. I think that's the point you were trying to make. But you should never tell guys to "be himself." Now there's also no guarantee if you improve yourself in whatever area of life that you'll get a girl. But the chances are higher and in the meantime, you gain self-confidence and self-worth. It's a win win situation. Plus, you'll be busy doing something with your life. Cause what's the alternative? Stewing away on lonely saturday nights? Spending money on drinks at bars/clubs hoping a girl will take pity on you? Or actively working on yourself whether it's becoming a subject matter expert in your career, or taking on a new hobby that requires some skill or getting into shape or even travelling and learning new languages. I've never heard a woman say something like, "oh what a loser. He's spending his saturday night at home practicing his dance steps for a dance competition next week." or "what a loser, he spent a month travelling in spain to learn Spanish." Women admire effort, especially real effort that isn't easy to do. I used dancing as an example because I started a hobby of ballroom dancing as a means of self-improvement and also out of interest as I'm a musical/artsy person. I haven't gotten a girlfriend out of it. But my self-confidence is better. I like myself more, especially physically. I stopped drinking and lost a ton of weight and I look better too. Ballroom dancing is an expensive hobby. I got plenty of detractors, even my parents. The ironic thing is, in my late 20s, I spent an equal amount of money going out to bars/clubs with friends hoping to land chicks. They all landed chicks and I didn't. But I spent just as much money if not more. Now I don't do that and I'm using my money in a hobby that makes me healthy, more confident and something I enjoy. Is it gonna land me some chick? Probably not. But next time I go into a social situation that involves dancing, I won't be spending a ton of money buying drinks for chicks in an effort to talk to them. Instead, I'll ask them to dance and when the dance is done, I'll go and buy a drink for myself. And yah, girls still won't want to go home with me but at least they had fun dancing with me. Most girls love to dance and will say yes to a guy who asks them to dance even if he's unattractive.
  12. Yah most women including ones who hate the novel and the character agree that despite all his faults, he DOES display certain traits/qualities that make men attractive in general. Not to keep going back to this character because I almost regret mentioning him now as I was just using him as an extreme example to reinforce my point, but looks and wealth aside, he does display attractive traits that women want all men to have. He has a lot going for himself professionally. He has goals and those goals aren't just to make a ton of money but also to help others. He's altruistic. He doesn't really need women to validate anything about himself. And he's confident. Even when people are snickering at him, he embraces his own strangeness and embraces his faults. In his relationship with Anna, he's not needy or finding some sorta validation from her. It's almost like he's asking her for help. He tells her he's screwed up and wants her help. That's a big difference between neediness. For the common man, he can apply alot of that in his behavior towards women. Instead of being needy and seeking validation, there's no shame in asking a women for help in something. Most women have nurturing instincts and want to help. Helping you actually may make her more invested in you emotionally and she may become more attached. It's not a sign of weakness to see help. Yeah our tastes are all different. But I think all women agree that neediness and a validation/desperation mindset (or the white knight mindset) is universally unattractive. Just like how most men (who are visually-driven) would find an obese women universally unattractive. Except it's not that simple. You don't think about it from a man's point of view who has gone through countless rejections when he was simple and straightforward. The kind of men who can get away with just being straightforward and have success with women are ones who are tall and conventionally attractive. Or they got really lucky and just met the right girl early on in his life and so he didn't have to endure the countless rejections from approaching women. I did not invent all the dating advice for men out there. They exist for a reason and that is, most men don't have any luck just being straightforward. They'll get rejection. My advice isn't at all meant to manipulate or somehow make women like men. No, whether a particular woman finds a man attractive is highly individualistic and there's just way too many factors. What I'm talking about is how men can keep their dignity intact and how to NOT be needy and validation seeking. I'm not saying they should stop pursuing women or play mind games. If a man can reduce his needy/validation seeking white knighting behavior, he can approach and pursue women in a way that is more natural and even fun. He will also be able to keep his dignity and confidence intact should things not work out because if he's got his own life and values himself, he will realize they were just not a good fit and that it's not because he's flawed or doesn't measure up. Obviously, you can't understand this because as a woman, it's easy for you to just say men should do this and do that. I'm always baffled at the advice women give their male friends. Often it's like, "Yah just talk to her..." or something like that. Yah it's all great if the guy is someone she's already attracted to and he just comes up and talks to you. What if he's not your type? What if there's something about his looks or his demeanor that you find creepy or unattractive? What if he was straightforward then? When you give such advice to men, what you're really imagining is a man who is your type doing that to you Of course you would want that. Women generally don't like being forced into any situation. They want things to happen organically and naturally. This is why so many women meet their boyfriends while travelling or doing something fun because the situation and circumstances just made it happen. Men who have white knight behavior tend to follow a script in their head and want to force an outcome even if the timing isn't right and the situation isn't right. He just HAS to have her because he needs the validation. What my advice is suggesting is for a way for needy/white knight men to pursue women in a way that is more natural and organic. Which would you prefer? Some needy desperate guy who wants to force an outcome with you and wants you to be his girlfriend or commit in some way when you barely know him or if the situation isn't even appropriate? Or a man who is self-aware and socially aware and cares for how you're feeling at the present moment and just has a sense of when to pursue you vs when he should just leave you alone and give you space?
  13. I'm not religious but I do come from a conservative immigrant family from a country where patriarchy exists. I personally don't believe my parents' marriage should be the norm at all. However, I do think the dynamics between men and women hasn't really changed. A lot of is biological wiring which has evolved over millennia. Women still want a strong, reliable man who is not needy and who can take care of her and can handle the challenges and difficulties of life. The problem is, men such as these are high in demand from other women and so cheating happens. In the last 20 years or so starting with the GenX generation, the "sensitive" man became the new ideal. This kind of man understands and perhaps has even experienced firsthand the difficulties women face and so is kind and considerate. Nothing wrong with this sensitive guy but somewhere along the way, this sensitive man also became a weak, needy and sometimes even idiotic male who had the immaturity of a child. Throughout the 90's and early 2000s, shows that portrayed a dumb, child-like but "sensitive" man like Everybody Loves Raymond became the norm. The wife character was always the wise, strong one who is always right and the husband is some idiot needy child in a man's body but has a good heart and is "sensitive." So women don't want the strong alpha male who has too many women chasing after him. And they also don't want the weak, needy male because he's not in demand at all by other women and is also too idiotic and weak to be reliable and to face the challenges of life. So what's in between? Well, it's the Christian Grey male. He may be an extreme example but essentially, women want a man who is strong and successful in his professional life and in his personal life. He is confident but not in an egotistic way. He is sensitive to women and respects women's rights but not to the extent that he compromises his own values. He is assertive and expresses interest in women but not in an overbearing or needy manner. He prefers to get to know women slowly and over time in order to truly evaluate whether they're a good fit for each other or not. He is not desperate and he knows that there are many women out there who will be interested in him if this particular woman doesn't work out. He is also independent and can take care of himself. He looks after his health and knows how to clean and maintain his home. He maybe can even cook well or at the very least, be able to take care of his dietary needs. He dresses well based on the occasion and is self-sufficient in his life. He has his own hobbies and interests and his own goals in life. He doesn't need a woman. He wants a woman who can complement his life rather than saving it. The reason why characters like christian grey got created was because what I just described above is a very tall order. There simply aren't enough men who can fulfill the above. So you get Mr. Grey who on the surface appears to be the perfect man but he actually has some deep emotional insecurities and issues. But instead of this repulsing women, it actually endears to them because unlike most men, he's willing to be vulnerable and to share how he really feels. He doesn't try to hide his flaws or pretend they don't exist. He's authentic and real. So in other words, the perfect man for the current society we live in is someone who is accomplished both professionally and personally and is self-sufficient. He always strives to be the best he can be but will also admit his flaws and doesn't try to hide them from others. In fact, he may even embrace his flaws and work actively to overcome them. He's a strong man who isn't afraid to admit flaws and weaknesses and shortcomings. He'll do things and get things done despite feeling fear and anxiety.
  14. GenX and subsequent generations saw the highest number of households with single mothers. So a lot of children grew up with only one parent, most likely the mother. These mothers due to their experiences passed onto their sons and daughters that men are inherently bad, conniving, cheaters and irresponsible. Add to this the fact that society favors the mother in a divorce and also due to political correctness, you get a generation of young boys who grow up thinking there is something wrong with the male species and feeling a collective sense of guilt. This causes them to be extra cautious and fearful in interactions with women. Ironically, it's the truly gentle and sensitive type of boys who are most impacted by this. They see their mothers struggling growing up and they may actually come to believe that men are inherently bad. So imagine his confusion when he grows up and finds himself turning women off because he's too nice and perplexed that the bad boys are laying women left and right.
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