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My ex views relationships different than me, trying to understand


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After my ex strung me along forever, he finally came clean and explained to me that he can't/won't do "normal" relationships. It was a punch to the gut to hear this, but I'm trying to understand where he's coming from because I know many people who feel the same way as him.

 

I'd say I'm pretty open-minded. I don't do jealousy, and I could absolutely see myself being in an open or even polyamorous relationship. The key there for me is trust. When I know where I stand with someone, there is no reason to be jealous. There's enough love for everybody.

 

Initially, after I realized that my ex wasn't going to be in a committed relationship with me any longer, I figured he simply preferred open relationships. But this turned out not to be the case. He seems to have an odd definition of "open relationship" and I do feel that's more harmful than anything else. Hoping someone here can relate and shed some light on this.

 

He says he loves all his friends in the same way and there is no hierarchy in love. His door is open for everyone, and I wasn't anymore special to him than his downstairs neighbour. He says he practices "free love" and essentially, I guess that means he gets to f**k everybody he fancies with no strings attached? But that doesn't seem healthy at all to me. He's acting as if I'm weird for finding this problematic and insists I'm too "traditional" to get it, but I disagree ...

No woman I know would enjoy this arrangement. Yet there are so many men out there, acting as if that friends with benefits thing is perfectly normal.

 

Sure, if both are into it that's fine, but I made it perfectly clear to him that while I didn't mind an open relationship, I needed some sort of reassurance that he wasn't just using and discarding me whenever he pleased. Never got that reassurance.

 

When did this become a normal thing? He, and a lot of other men I know, are under the impression that their way of "love" is the only real deal. To me they're screaming fear of committment, lots of personal baggage, denial, insecurity. They are essentially using people for their own enjoyment but acting like they're doing God's work. I don't get it. At all. Please someone explain this to me!

 

Edit: I don't think he ever hooked up with someone else while he said he was with me. He did understand that it wouldn't be okay with me and he didn't actively try to hurt me. Nonetheless, he thought it was wrong of me to expect faithfulness. He told me (after we'd broken up) that it wasn't that he WANTED to be with someone else - he just wanted the option, basically. That if he had met someone he liked, I would have had to step back down and not be jealous. He told me I should just have appreciated the time we had together instead of asking for more.

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Kathy.

 

Remember what we said before about there being no answers?

 

Not still ruminating over this individual, are you? Please don't. He's over and done with. The past. You are giving him space inside your head that could be put to better use.

 

There are all kinds in this world. Not a question of what is "normal".

 

Some people only want the FWB scenario and provided they are upfront about it then let them at it. It is not however acceptable to lie to someone, and "string them along forever". The trick is to hone your radar to the point where you can "read" these types as soon as they appear. If that's their "real deal" then you need to sidestep, and quick. Why do you want an "explanation"? I daresay that there are experts in the world of psychology who could define these individuals, but that is beside the point here.

 

Many people do want commitment, and are straightforward, do not lie, and behave in an ethical manner.

 

The important factor is YOU. How you work on yourself, your boundaries and defining exactly the type of person you want in your life.

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I'm not trying to figure him out anymore. It's more universal, I guess. I'm trying to understand why pretty much every man I talk to finds this kind of behaviour normal and okay while pretty much no woman I know does.

 

Maybe I just know the wrong people ...

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Then, Kathy, you are meeting/talking to the wrong types, in the wrong venues and circumstances.

Why do you think this is happening to you?

 

You do remember the advice many posters gave you in the previous thread? All that still stands.

 

You once said this, Kathy.

 

"I went through a lot of trauma in life and learned very early on that my thoughts, feelings and opinions don't matter. To this day, it's hard for me to open up to people and to speak up when necessary."

 

There you have it. These issues must be addressed, with help, before you can move towards finding better relationship material.

 

Predatory and useless types can sniff you out from a mile away, and then prey on you. It is vital you get to a place where you are in charge of yourself.

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Of course I remember. Starting a new job, moving soon and everything. I'm not talking to the ex anymore and won't for a very long time, maybe never again. I'm trying to take care of myself.

 

I don't know why that's happening to me. Maybe I give off a vibe that screams "naive and trusting, use to your advantage"? :') I know people often tell me that I appear very young/inexperienced for some reason, and that they are surprised when they get to know me better because I'm not nearly as naive as they thought at first.

 

I was in love with a sort of ... spiritual leader once upon a time. He taught me that I should always wear my heart on my sleeve, even when people abuse this, because it's the only way to be true to myself.

Obviously thats kind of bs, but there is some truth to it and I guess thats why I still run into these kind of relationships with open arms.

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It isn't the appearance or even the apparent "naivety". It's the inner person, the trauma you went through in life, as you said yourself, and the need to find self-worth. It isn't the "naive and trusting vibe" that brings in the predators. They have an uncanny talent for sniffing out your deeper issues which rend you vulnerable.

 

I don't want to hear that word "maybe" or that you would even entertain the idea of approaching this individual again. Why would you even do that? More punishment?

 

You remarked:

 

"I was in love with a sort of ... spiritual leader once upon a time. He taught me that I should always wear my heart on my sleeve, even when people abuse this, because it's the only way to be true to myself."

 

Where on earth do you find these lunatics Kathy. L.

 

Once again, get to a good place of self-worth within yourself and you will be quite amazed at how your life will improve. But you will need to seek help to do it.

 

So what are you planning to do, Kathy, to start on that self-worth journey?

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So, we can go deep into these weeds—I love these sorts of weeds!—but before that? Let's ask some questions.

 

Does any of this really matter? Does trying to decode all this change the hard facts here, which is that you spent some time in a relationship that was unsatisfying? Does trying to understand what he's saying—or simply dissing it, and getting others to diss it—get you closer to a satisfying relationship? Or does it keep you connected to this one? Does focusing on him, as some Pandora-like emotional enigma, to say nothing of making this about men in general, help you understand the parts of yourself that kept you drawn to something that delivered so little? Could things like fear of commitment, personal baggage, denial, and insecurity be something in you, as much as him and men, that is asking you for attention right now more than all this?

 

My personal sense is that anyone can define love and relationships however they want, at any juncture. There literally are no rules, and we are allowed to change our rules whenever we please. If I point at an elephant and tell you I see an umbrella—yes, you can tell me that I am wrong. But if I tell you that, for me, love is x, y, and z, whereas to you it is a, b, and c—well, we are both correct. We'd probably make for a terrible couple, however. And if we were each two people more connected to our egos than our hearts? Well, maybe we'd spend some time knotted up, with me trying to get you to see my equation, you trying to get me to see yours, each of us trying to find connection through control, at least until we're too exhausted to continue...

 

For 1000s of years humans have been conducting an experiment to figure out how to get romance right. We create public and private structures to do this, building them up, breaking them down, over and over. Is it monogamy? Is it not monogamy, given that humans have a long track record of being non-monogamous? Is it marriage, or is marriage just a commercialized institution that was once explicitly about women being male property? And so on, and so forth, when at the end of the day everyone wants more or less the same thing: connections that are sincere, authentic, sustainable, true.

 

It doesn't sound like this connection was that, which is very frustrating, at least from one angle. From another? Maybe you needed it to understand your truth a bit more clearly, and to challenge yourself to cultivate it, to become more sincerely available to it in your emotional center, so men who can't meet you on that level are simply people not worth getting too knotted up in.

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Yes, the short answer is that you are very much giving off a vibe that says "I have no clue who I am and have no boundaries, so go ahead and tell me whatever, I'll probably accept it."

 

Your situation reminds me of the line "when you stand for nothing you fall for everything". When you are trying to be sooo open minded about everything, you lose your sense of self and identity and that will attract exactly the sort of people you don't want in your life. They can see your confusion, lack of boundaries, lack of sense of self and they flock your way because they think can manipulate you to do and accept whatever they pitch at you.

 

Stop focusing on men and ask yourself - what is actually acceptable to you and, more importantly, what isn't. What are your boundaries? Do you know how to enforce them? For example, telling this guy what you do and don't want is not enforcing boundaries. Enforcing boundaries is recognizing that this person behaves in ways that do not align with your values, beliefs, lifestyle and immediately walking away from them. That goes for everything - romantic relationships, friendships, business, etc.

 

If I see someone stealing from the register, I'm not going to get into what FOO issues are causing them to steal, or listen to them justify their theft with some life philosophy that it's not really theft because everything really belongs to everyone, there are no rules, it's all just a social construct. Darn right it's a social construct and they are going to jail for theft. I would imagine you'd have no problem with this scenario - so why then can't you apply that to romantic relationships? When you see someone doing something that is clearly against your values - drop them cold and move on. No need to listen to their bs, let alone allow them to brainwash you with it.

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The first person to be honest with is yourself and what you want vs what you are settling for or talked into.

 

Is this the same man:?

https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=563833&p=7202472&viewfull=1#post7202472

I'd say I'm pretty open-minded. I don't do jealousy, and I could absolutely see myself being in an open or even polyamorous relationship.

 

He did understand that it wouldn't be okay with me and he didn't actively try to hurt me. Nonetheless, he thought it was wrong of me to expect faithfulness.

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Yes, the short answer is that you are very much giving off a vibe that says "I have no clue who I am and have no boundaries, so go ahead and tell me whatever, I'll probably accept it."

 

Your situation reminds me of the line "when you stand for nothing you fall for everything". When you are trying to be sooo open minded about everything, you lose your sense of self and identity and that will attract exactly the sort of people you don't want in your life. They can see your confusion, lack of boundaries, lack of sense of self and they flock your way because they think can manipulate you to do and accept whatever they pitch at you.

 

Stop focusing on men and ask yourself - what is actually acceptable to you and, more importantly, what isn't. What are your boundaries? Do you know how to enforce them? For example, telling this guy what you do and don't want is not enforcing boundaries. Enforcing boundaries is recognizing that this person behaves in ways that do not align with your values, beliefs, lifestyle and immediately walking away from them. That goes for everything - romantic relationships, friendships, business, etc.

 

If I see someone stealing from the register, I'm not going to get into what FOO issues are causing them to steal, or listen to them justify their theft with some life philosophy that it's not really theft because everything really belongs to everyone, there are no rules, it's all just a social construct. Darn right it's a social construct and they are going to jail for theft. I would imagine you'd have no problem with this scenario - so why then can't you apply that to romantic relationships? When you see someone doing something that is clearly against your values - drop them cold and move on. No need to listen to their bs, let alone allow them to brainwash you with it.

 

Exactly this. He reminds me of a really cute guy I went on a few dates with many years ago who told me he used to frequent strip clubs with his clients (sales industry) and get lap dances. He didn't go much anymore but insisted to me that lap dances aren't sexual and didn't see anything wrong with getting one were he committed, married, etc.. Of course -reasonable minds can differ. Did I argue the point with him? Nope. Did I care what in his psyche justified his values? Nope. Did I choose to go out with him again? Nope.

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To be honest there isn't really such a thing as what "normal" actually is in regards to dating. Or at least not in the modern day society because our society has drastically changed. These days some people just don't want traditional relationships. There actually are people who don't really want a relationship and they do just want sex to satisfy themselves. These people probably don't have life goals such as kids and marriage and they're mainly happy on their own. Because it's their way of life, they do see it as normal. That's probably why your ex was surprised that you don't understand where he's coming from.

 

No offence but if you see how someone is from the start and they "string you along", that's actually on you. I want marriage and kids myself. So if I meet a guy who just has sex with me and nothing else and I continue seeing him, it's ME who's making that decision. The important thing in relationships is to find people who want what you want. Who have the same goals and values. If someone only wants sex, it's not abnormal or makes them a jerk (if they're honest), it's just not what you want.

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"Those kind of people" try it on with everyone. Thing is, most healthy people wouldn't even bother engaging with them. They would see what they're about, tell themselves "no thanks", and move on.

 

Unhealthy people, on the other hand, will be intrigued. They want to see if they can get this elusive person to love them. If they can it proves their worth somehow, so they will hang in there long after others would have walked.

 

And THAT is worth exploring. Not why other people choose to live their lives the way they do.

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It seems to me you're more disturbed as if this is a pervasive attitude around men in general OR you're questioning the types of vibes or messages you give out to the opposite sex.

 

There are all kinds of people out there. It's up to you to make sense of it all and figure out what you're about before dabbling in dating. You'll attract the wrong people for you if you aren't sure of what you are or what you want.

 

From personal experience, I have never met a man who's wanted to share me or have an open relationship. It goes both ways, doesn't it? You'll meet certain people who won't want the same things you don't want and sometimes you won't be on the same page. It's life. Have patience and courage and don't let this sort of thing get you down.

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That's it Bolt.

 

"Unhealthy people, on the other hand, will be intrigued. They want to see if they can get this elusive person to love them. If they can it proves their worth somehow, so they will hang in there long after others would have walked.

"

 

Exactly.

 

The fascination with the elusive. The lure of the unavailable man.

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AWhen did this become a normal thing? He, and a lot of other men I know, are under the impression that their way of "love" is the only real deal. To me they're screaming fear of committment, lots of personal baggage, denial, insecurity. They are essentially using people for their own enjoyment but acting like they're doing God's work. I don't get it. At all. Please someone explain this to me!.

 

Where are you meeting these dudes?

 

I have to say that I have not found this mentality to be common among the men I know and have dated, bar a few back in the university days who just didn't want girlfriends and preferred the freedom to date and sleep with whomever they wished. But that's simply wanting to be single with no specific commitment, not an actual fear of commitment.

 

It sounds to me like this guy was just trying to justify not committing to you by dressing it up with some verbal diarrhea about free love, and you could take it or leave it. He wasn't invested the way you were, apparently, and wanted to keep the door open for someone else.

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Exactly this. He reminds me of a really cute guy I went on a few dates with many years ago who told me he used to frequent strip clubs with his clients (sales industry) and get lap dances. He didn't go much anymore but insisted to me that lap dances aren't sexual and didn't see anything wrong with getting one were he committed, married, etc.. Of course -reasonable minds can differ. Did I argue the point with him? Nope. Did I care what in his psyche justified his values? Nope. Did I choose to go out with him again? Nope.

 

Perfect example. There is no need to judge or argue whether his beliefs and values are good or bad, right or wrong, normal or abnormal, common or uncommon. The only thing you really do need to judge, the only critical factor here is whether his values match up with yours and if they don't, you just walk away. No arguments, no trying to change the other person, no listening to their arguments, you just walk away and leave them be. There is literally nothing to argue about. Not a match is not a match. Next.

 

In a way, OP, you need to learn to reject those who don't fit you quickly.

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Your situation reminds me of the line "when you stand for nothing you fall for everything". When you are trying to be sooo open minded about everything, you lose your sense of self and identity and that will attract exactly the sort of people you don't want in your life. They can see your confusion, lack of boundaries, lack of sense of self and they flock your way because they think can manipulate you to do and accept whatever they pitch at you.

 

I agree.

 

When did this become a normal thing? He, and a lot of other men I know, are under the impression that their way of "love" is the only real deal.

 

Yes, these people are out there, but it's definitely not a 'norm' that is expressed openly to everyone. I think you have to be giving off a vibe that tells these guys that you're ok with whatever.

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Sure, if both are into it that's fine, but I made it perfectly clear to him that while I didn't mind an open relationship, I needed some sort of reassurance that he wasn't just using and discarding me whenever he pleased. Never got that reassurance.

 

When did this become a normal thing? He, and a lot of other men I know, are under the impression that their way of "love" is the only real deal. To me they're screaming fear of committment, lots of personal baggage, denial, insecurity. They are essentially using people for their own enjoyment but acting like they're doing God's work. I don't get it. At all. Please someone explain this to me!

 

I know plenty of men (myself included) who don't find this normal. Call me traditional or out of touch, but I agree with everything you said. If you are in a relationship with someone, it's not the same as the love you give to your friend or the person delivering your mail. We form these relationships for a closer connection, something you can't get with just anyone. Why people treat love so casually? You answered your own question. Of course it depends on the person, but some combo of fear of commitment, personal baggage, insecurity, etc., are likely to be the cause. If you never get too invested, you can't be as hurt, right?

 

I've stopped trying to understand every reason people think like they do. Analyzing things that I know I will never feel or believe just left me feeling frustrated at best, even angry at times. That wasn't good for me. Instead, I focus on what I believe and associate with people who feel the same. You don't seem like someone who is okay with FWB or polyamorous, at least for your relationship. So don't try to be. Make it clear what you want and expect in a relationship. If the guy is worth you, he will respect that and want the same.

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