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Hey everyone. This forum has been a great help to me so far. I apologize if this is long, but I want to spell out all of the details and figure out if I have a chance.

 

My boyfriend (36) broke up with me (30) about 5 weeks ago. We have been together for 4 years with some on/off stuff during our relationship. We got together in April 2016.

 

Our relationship was very passionate, deeply loving, but also toxic in many ways. We were inseparable after the first time we hung out. We had met, he said he fell in love at first sight, made an Instagram account to track me down, and that was that. He was abusive in the past, and there were times I tried to leave in our first year and he would beg for me to come back. I obviously always did because I love him. I suspect he may be a narcissist or at least have some tendencies. He love bombed me in the begging and then after a few months his dark side came out.

 

We went through a lot of hardships. I was thrown out by my drug addict roommate/ex best friend shortly after my relationship started. We had no place and I had made a big career change and was very broke at the time. We slept in the back of his nutrition store for months. I ended up moving back in with my family 3 months later and he was already living with his at the time, but stayed with me in that store. This was the first time I tried to leave after realizing he had anger issues.

 

He was going through an investigation for fraud he committed under the guidance of his ex friend, and was extremely stressed. Fast forward to 2018 where he was convicted of a felony and sentenced to 10 months in federal prison.

 

About a month before his sentencing, we had hit another rough patch. We worked together (got the job after we had already been together several months and were hired as a couple) and there was an opportunity for a head coach position (we are both fitness trainers). We both applied and I got the job over him, and our upper management said he would have to go to another location because of our relationship and me being his “boss”. He was infuriated, broke up with me over me “not standing up for him”, told me I didn’t deserve the position, and a lot of other hurtful things. A few weeks later he was convicted and sentenced (February 2018). He was to surrender in May.

 

We reconciled and I was heartbroken that he was actually going to prison. The day he left was one of the worst days of my life. I didn’t speak to him for weeks due to the prison system messing up, assigning him to the same camp as a co-defendant (who got 5 years) and he was placed in the special housing unit, which is basically solitary “for his protection”. I finally got a letter and he was able to make 1 call a month. I visited him, sent money, sent books, wrote letters daily (many of which he never received and thought I wasn’t writing). I felt awful for what he was going through. A few months later he was finally transferred and I flew to visit him (August 2018). He was very different after going through everything, in good and bad ways.

 

We started fighting again soon after, he felt I wasn’t writing, wasn’t sending enough money, wasn’t sending enough books. I tried to be compassionate for what he was going through, but I started to feel so unappreciated. I had hoped him going to prison would make him finally appreciate me after all we had been through. I slowly started to feel like he was never going to change and I was deeply hurt. I spoke to him less and less, still tried to be there because I loved him so much. But I was very hurt.

 

In January 2019 I started a friendship with another man, that led to us dating. I was still very in love with my ex but felt I needed to move on. He was released in February 2019 and was placed in a halfway house for a month. I visited and told him I was dating someone, but that I wanted to be there for him and help in any way I could. I tried to get him a job where I worked (same company we had worked for but a different location) it didn’t pan out but he ended up hired at another location with the same company (it’s a fitness studio chain). He begged for another chance and I slowly gave in because my love for him never went away. I cut off contact with anyone I had been talking to and dedicated myself to my ex.

 

He had grown a lot, worked on his anger issues, although there was still some. Over the last year he starting growing very resentful of me “abandoning” him while he was in prison, and started saying that I had cheated on him, wasn’t there for him, etc. I was heartbroken. I tried to make him understand how hurt I was and why I thought it was my only choice to move on. He held on to this resentment and it caused a lot of our old issues to resurface.

 

I went through more hardships the last year, the last being in November 2019 when I left my job to pursue another, and was brutally cut from it without warning right as I was getting started. I was left broke and severely depressed, and he helped me financially for the next couple of months. I went back to our old company (yet another location) in January this year. Things were starting to look up, but I had to pay my ex back and wasn’t able to start until February. He hounded me daily for the money and it led to a lot of fights. I haven’t been the best with my finances, and he was rightfully upset. February we were fighting almost daily, I became very insecure and he felt very unappreciated. There were threats of him leaving and in retrospect I know I wasn’t appreciating all he helped me with, and I stopped trying to please him in many ways because I never thought things would actually end.

 

Last month (March 17th) was the first day of the shelter in place due to covid-19 in the SF Bay Area where we live. I was very stressed and picked an absolutely stupid fight with him. He broke up with me that day. I gave him a couple of days to cool down, and we talked again that week. The following week we hung out everyday and he was very clear we weren’t together and he has been unhappy and we could work on being friends. Said he needed to get happy and I did too but he would be here for me and still loves me. He said he didn’t want to date anyone and needed to be alone to work on himself and I should do the same.

 

We go on like this for a couple of weeks, and then I find out he has started dating a coworker who is 13 years younger (23). I freak out, do all of the wrong things, and he says I’m toxic and this is why he can’t be with me. He said he is going to date “just like I did” while he was in prison and I can accept his friendship and work on myself in the meantime. He goes back and forth between saying maybe there is a chance for us but not for a long time and he is going to date this girl. I feel he left me for her and was at least emotionally cheating. I know the girl, we have worked out together, even took a picture together. I reach out to her in the most respectful way since we follow each other on Instagram, I asked how long things had been going on and she never replied, told him, and blocked me. He was upset but still continued to talk to me and try to work on our friendship. This was 2 weeks ago.

 

We continue to talk everyday and have seen each other a few times. I know he is spending time with her, doing a lot of the things we did when we first got together, spending nights, taking her places we used to go. She is the complete opposite of me and what he has always said is not his type physically, and I know this to be true by his exes. I never had a worry about her at all, and I’m still shocked by it. He has sent me sexual messages a few times, most recently this week. Tells me he loves me and cares but doesn’t want to date me right now. He has been cooking food for me weekly because I can’t use the kitchen where I live. He checks in on me daily, and is bringing me food again the day after tomorrow.

 

I have a deep feeling he will come back after this girl. I know he has a lot of unresolved bitterness about our relationship and maybe feels like he needs freedom to explore and do what I did last year. I want him to have freedom to be happy, to let go of the negativity in our relationship and heal. I know everyone says no contact is best, but in our case I believe that being present and being a friend, showing him how I’m improving (I’ve suffered with severe depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, jealousy) he will eventually want to try again. I’ve already forgiven him because I understand he has been hurt and unhappy, just like I was.

 

He is still angry with the way I acted and I’ve taken responsibility for my mistakes and have apologized. I am working to be better, working out everyday, meditating, reading, not being emotional with him. Just keeping things light and friendly. I do have some fears that he will stay with this girl, and I’m sure she is head over heels for him and has wanted him for a while. He is completely love bombing her the same way he did me when we first got together. Also worth noting he had reached out to his ex before me right before we got together and also during the time I had tried leaving in our first year. The one before that he broke up with and they got back together. So he has a history of revisiting exes.

 

I guess I don’t know what I’m asking. If anyone thinks I have a real chance. Despite our issues, I know we have a deep love for each other and I know we can make each other very happy. He has come a long way as a person although there is still work to be done, and I am actively working on myself to be my best. I’m already in great shape since I’m a trainer, and going through this I’ve lost more weight and look the best I’ve looked in years. I am a very beautiful girl and I know he is still at least physically attracted to me. He is also incredibly handsome (think Chris Hemsworth, everyone calls him Thor) so I know he could get anyone he wants which is what scares me.

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated, and thank you for reading my novel! I am at war with myself on whether to keep hoping or to give up. I truly love him and accept him despite everything. I want to let his new relationship run its course, since I don’t really believe it will last based on the way it started, the big age difference, and them being coworkers. His boss who is close to both of us reached out to me the other day. She had heard what is happening, and she said the whole thing is really weird and doesn’t understand.

 

How do I improve my chances at us getting back together? Thank you again!

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You need to be done with this. You know it is sick and unhealthy. This has been bad from the start. He will not change.

 

I strongly suggest you seek some therapy when the virus settles. Focus on your co dependence and attraction to men who treat you poorly. This man is emotionally abusive and you keep returning for more abuse. What is there to love about someone who treats you like crap? Did you grow up in an abusive household?

 

What do your friends and family say abut this creep?

 

Block and delete this guy.

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I strongly suggest you seek some therapy when the virus settles.

 

I agree with everything but this. I say get therapy now. SUrely there are therapists doing televisits right now.

 

read what you wrote and pretend that your little sister or friend wrote it. What would you tell them? Would you tell them that you think this is a good guy??

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What is it about you that makes you think you "love and accept" an abusive felon?

 

If you're that beautiful I presume you attract quality men.

 

I'd explore in therapy why you choose an abusive chump instead of one of the dozens of nice men you could be dating.

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I agree with everything but this. I say get therapy now. SUrely there are therapists doing televisits right now.

 

read what you wrote and pretend that your little sister or friend wrote it. What would you tell them? Would you tell them that you think this is a good guy??

 

Thank you for the correction. At times I think the world has shut down.

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It seems to me, you are both toxic to each other and abuse each other emotionally on a regular basis.

 

The best thing you could do is continue to work on your own career and life. Focus on creating a stable life for yourself and heal from this guy.

 

good looks are a bonus, they don't make up for being a crappy, abusive person.

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He fits the description of a sociopath. Research "Hare Psychopathy Checklist". Quit doing drugs and get away from him. Prison is like college for sociopaths to develop their antisocial skills. Going to prison is "abandoning" you.

on/off stuff during our relationship.

He was abusive in the past

he was convicted of a felony and sentenced to 10 months in federal prison.

I didn’t speak to him for weeks due to the prison system messing up

I had hoped him going to prison would make him finally appreciate me after all we had been through.

He was released in February 2019 and was placed in a halfway house for a month.

he starting growing very resentful of me “abandoning” him while he was in prison

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Hi. The abuse was very early on in the relationship. He has grown a lot as have I in the last 4 years. Mainly we dealt with a lot of stress and it put a big strain on us leading to this breakup. We have both helped each other a lot in many ways. He is not a bad person.

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I’m not so sure. I think if that were the case he would have completely abandoned me. The fact that we still talk and that he is trying to be here for me and help throughout this epidemic would suggest otherwise. Also, I do not and have never done any drugs. Neither does he. We are fitness professionals and very healthy people.

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To clarify, the abuse was early in the relationship. He has grown a lot in the last 4 years and have admitted to treating me badly. I’ve done therapy in the past and have worked on myself a lot.

 

Many men try to talk to me everyday, but the great majority are only trying to sleep with me because of the way that I look.

 

This isn’t about just being with someone. I want to be with the person who I love and who has been there for me through my darkest times.

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Then why are you asking for advice if he is such a great guy? Doesn't take responsibility, game playing, cheat, manipulative, gas lighter.

 

You have contradicted most of what you have said. He sounds like a super guy, sending you sexual messages while involved with her. Not only is his highly disrespectful to her, but also disrespectful to you. He is not emotionally cheating on her.

 

Also, he is now a felon. Stop blaming his friend, this was on him. Aim higher.

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This isn’t about just being with someone. I want to be with the person who I love and who has been there for me through my darkest times.

 

I'll start here.

 

Without quite realizing it fully, I think you've played a bit of a trick on yourself, as happens in toxic relationships. Because if you zoom out a few more degrees? I think you'd see that this man has not "been there" through your "darkest times," but has been the source of a lot of darkness—darkness you have come to value as "special" rather than, well, "toxic." Dark feelings about yourself, your worth, the world. Bonding over brokenness can feel otherworldly and vulnerable, but it's actually pretty cursory, even basic, as the kids would say. When your primary attachment point, aside from looks and sexual chemistry, is brokenness, what you have is a recipe for expanding darkness—getting stuck in it and mistaking it for light, not moving through it toward light.

 

Go to the hard facts here, line them up. You have a four year history that started fraught, remains fraught. Tension, pain, troubles: these are the rules. Joy, safety, security: these are the exceptions. He was abusive—early, per your analysis, throughout from what you're offering. He is shady—convicted for being shady in business, now being shady in romance, in the way he is treating you and another woman. These are simple facts, no different than the sky outside my window being blue.

 

And you want another chance why?

 

I ask that in earnest, not in judgement, because I think what you really want is to avoid answering that question. Dangerous mechanism, that one. The antithesis of light, or any path toward it. You are now flipping the script, defending him to a chorus of internet strangers. I get it. Your history is real, as are your feelings, to say nothing of what seems to be a belief that, two people plagued by darkness can find light, together. And so when people point him out as bad news you may feel that your history and feelings are being minimized, negated.

 

But it's not like that, or doesn't have to be.

 

Remove your imagination here—the thing writing the story of how this all comes back together into something functional—and what do you have? An epic amount of dysfunction between two attractive human beings. Do I think you have a chance for more of that? For sure. But if you're interested in the truly radical stuff, the stuff that's even "bigger" than darkness, that doesn't require your imagination working overtime to fill in the gaps of reality, I don't think you're going to find that here. Time has proven this. He has proven this.

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I’m definitely not turned on by any of this. My first boyfriend cheated on me several times, which I discovered and I left him. My next relationship was quite healthy, but he was much older and we wanted different things at the time and had a very amicable breakup. This most recent partner had never cheated, and I whole heartedly trusted him. He was upfront about going through his legal issues from the start, and I chose to accept it and face whatever came. If anything I have a big attachment to him because of the ways he has helped me - sheltering me when I had no place to go, aiding me financially many times throughout our relationship, encouraging me to be happy and work on my issues. He has plenty of his own, but I don’t feel he is a truly bad person. We all make mistakes, and I understand the “why” of what makes people behave certain ways. It’s why I understand what he is doing now - he is doing what he felt I did to him while he was in prison. I don’t think it’s purposely vengeful but he feels justified. My issue is, why does he still want to be friends and help me? I think a truly bad person or sociopath would have discarded me and never looked back.

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I do rationally understand that we have been toxic. But we have also shared a lot of love and a lot of support. I have been through a lot in my life before him. Yes I was abused, emotionally, physically and sexually early in my life. I went through years of therapy, took antidepressants. It’s a reason I became a trainer, to help people and inspire confidence, and it’s really what saved my life.

 

In dating I was always very guarded and would run at any red flags. With him, I understand why he is the way he is. His father was an alcoholic, abusive, his family does not express affection, he was used by an ex and it hurt him deeply. Going through his legal issues, going to prison and the way he was treated there will mess anyone up.

 

I suggested we go to therapy a couple of months ago because I know he suffers from trauma still. It’s why I doubt his new relationship will work, because he is just carrying over all of his issues onto someone new. When we first got together he was extremely depressed, and would often say that I “saved” him. I think he is constantly looking for someone to “save” him and erase his trauma.

 

I admittedly do have some codependency and abandonment issues, which is why this is extra painful. I am actually very aware of my trauma and have done A LOT of work to heal.

 

The root of the darkness we shared was due to external influences, and it always felt unfair that we struggled so much. My great fear is that this new girl will be easy, she is very young, very basic, I’m sure has never had any major issues in her life.

 

I’m still trying to figure out why he wants me in his life, why he tells me he still loves me and cares about me, he wants me to be happy and okay, will always be here to help me with whatever I need. That’s what keeps my hope alive for a reconciliation. I know I wasn’t my best with him towards the end, and I know I can be much better. He has grown a lot in our relationship, but like I said he still has work to do on himself.

 

I love how this became all about my mental health lol. I appreciate the concern, but I just want to know if anyone thinks I have a chance at getting him back, how to go about repairing things, and if this new girl will last.

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I'm not arguing that he is "bad" or "good." That's for the church pews, the judge and juries. Excepting a tiny portion of the human population, I'm a general believer that people, all in all, are good. Flawed, prone to making mistakes, sure. Deserving of forgiveness? Always. And so on and so forth. Kumbaya.

 

But that does not mean that good people, or people we see the goodness in, are good for us. I'm a pretty decent guy, for instance, but I can point you toward a few women that I know I am "bad" for, as well as some very wonderful women I know are "bad" for me. I can understand the attachment, of course, the feeling that you almost "owe" him for where he's been good to you in the past, along with "owing" him latitude for his current behavior. Still, all that strikes my mind as transactional, hence my not-accidental emphasis on debt, and I think once we start thinking of emotion and romance in terms of a transaction, where things like sex and forgiveness become currencies, we've jumped the shark every which way to Sunday.

 

It's what happens when the ego steers the ship, when two egos lock horns. Your "understanding" of what he is doing now is, I'm sorry, ego driven. I don't mean this judgmentally, as I think "ego" is neither positive or negative, but a universal thing to be aware of, the ego as the little storyteller in our mind that bends things to conform to our story. Look at your interpretations of his actions right now. Rather than see them as an extension of who he is, choices he is making, you're seeing them as a reaction to you. You remain brightest the star in his solar system.

 

There's comfort in that, sure, since it minimizes what simply hurts right now: that he's getting it on with a 23-year-old while still sexting with you and making overtures of friendship in the least friendly of contexts. But if all that is just an extension of your powerful connection to each other—an extension of your power, in short—it's more digestible. The story that a "true" bad person/sociopath would have discarded you—well, that's just more storytelling to block out the pain, to break your imagination to rationalize and validate what just amounts to human weakness, on both sides, and two humans who have a history of bringing out more weakness in each other than strength.

 

Why does he want to be "friends" with you, put in quotes because you're smart enough to know that how he's behaving is not friendly? Well, again, that's mainly ego. His ego. Cake, plus eating it too. It's not that mysterious, but just core human frailty and weak character. Lots of action on lots of burners: makes for a mess, but also for a more varied, and spicier, meal. Because you feel "bad" for once doing something similar, you're now trying to atone for that by being "good" while he is "bad." Reflect a bit and I think you'll see just how much the dynamic has played out over the past few years, with one of you playing "good" to another's "bad," then switching roles.

 

Is any of that good for you? Does any of that evolve into something that truly feels good? I've got an open mind and pretty extravagant imagination, but I can't see it. I don't think you can either, but I think you're looking hard for ways to see things that aren't there.

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Was writing that above when you added you latest.

 

Look, I get it. Life has thrown some pretty sharp arrows my way as well, and so I tend to relate to people who have been in some deep trenches, am kind of hardwired to be drawn to them. But more than that? I relate to people who have found a way out of them, for real, rather than those who find excuses to stay put and form connections that validate the work they haven't done.

 

The reason is simple. Someone still in the trench will pull me back into it. Doesn't really matter what that person has been through: a tench is a trench, toxic is toxic. You don't get to peace by fighting, and you don't cure sickness with sickness. You just don't, at least in what I've learned in living just a few more years of life than either of you.

 

Observe all this as an alien would, as if you two were characters in a movie or video game, and what do you see? Too people who are connected by damage—damage that predated them meeting, damage they've inflicting in connecting—going deeper and deeper into the trench to fix the damage. You'd maybe want to say that the way out is not down, but up, and away.

 

Will things last with this woman? Will you get back together? No one can answer those questions—not us, not anyone. But I don't think those questions are nearly as critical as understanding the instinct in asking them, obsessing over them. From where I sit, it looks like a refusal to grow while providing the illusion of growth. Whatever unhealthy and unfortunate experiences you've had in the past—with him and before him—that looks to me like making unhealthy choices in the present. I don't think you need me to tell you how that portends for the future.

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Charles Manson, Richard Ramirez and Ted Bundy all had women doing this for them. Willingly. Sociopathy is a spectrum. It's not all serial killers. It's while collar, cult leaders, dictators, the chump scamming on the street, etc.

 

The sine qua non is shifting blame, playing the victim, lack of empathy (except as it functions to manipulate), no remorse (except at parole hearings) and expert manipulation facilitated by the superficial charm you describe.

I visited him, sent money, sent books, wrote letters daily. He felt I wasn’t writing, wasn’t sending enough money, wasn’t sending enough books.
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"My issue is, why does he still want to be friends and help me? I think a truly bad person or sociopath would have discarded me and never looked back. "

 

A user will never discard a fan. Why would he? No matter what you're still doing all these things for him so he'll keep liking you. He knows you won't ever stop being his fan.

 

And how is cheating on his current girlfriend by sexting with you "helping" you?

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I’m not so sure. I think if that were the case he would have completely abandoned me. The fact that we still talk and that he is trying to be here for me and help throughout this epidemic would suggest otherwise. Also, I do not and have never done any drugs. Neither does he. We are fitness professionals and very healthy people.

 

It doesn't matter.

He is bad news. He has a record. He has not made good life choices . WOrk on yourself some more - you should go for an upstanding member of society that treats women with respect.

 

Serial killers and sex traffickers show "interest" in someone. Doesn't mean you have to give them the time of day.

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What kind of fitness outfit hires ex con felons? It is your username advertisement? Please warn people that this outfit does not screen people well or do any form of background checks (and he continues to lie and get jobs fraudulently)

he ended up hired at another location with the same company (it’s a fitness studio chain).
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What kind of fitness outfit hires ex con felons? It is your username advertisement? Please warn people that this outfit does not screen people well or do any form of background checks (and he continues to lie and get jobs fraudulently)

 

Those MLMs where people open small store fronts to sell "healthy shakes".

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They are aware of his history, and actually reached out to him because of his history with the company and being really good at what he does and having a good reputation. As I mentioned, he was wrangled into things by his ex best friend who was his boss, who also got many other people involved. My ex only got 10 months while everyone else got 3-5 years. He played a very small role in things which amounted to fraud. I was at his sentencing and the judge even said she felt bad for him but she had to give him “something”. He was very young when the fraud happened and they were under investigation for several years. And no my username is not an advertisement, just my nickname. Wouldn’t be a great advertisement talking about all of this!

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How old was he? Did he know that the behavior was illegal?

 

You know this is unhealthy and toxic, yet you are excusing and making him out to be a great guy. Now, this great guy is texting you, while with another. If he wanted to be with you, then why did he get involved with her. And how do you explain all the blame through the relationship.

 

What do friends and family say?

 

You need to pull your head out of the sand.

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It’s an international fitness company which franchises locations. Not a store, it’s an actual gym. I really wish people would stop attacking me and the situation. We have all made mistakes in our lives, and if I thought this man was truly a bad person I would not want to be with him. It’s unfortunate that my post has digressed into an attack on my mental health, borderline victim blaming.

 

I was hoping for advice on how to reconcile and repair our relationship. I shared all of the nitty gritty details for the sake of outlining the nature of the situation. Not to paint either of us as bad or good. It’s obviously a complex situation and mistakes we made on both sides. He has apologized for his past behavior and has encouraged me to be happier and fulfilled.

 

He has continued to support me throughout this crisis by bringing me food every week. He called me last night and this morning to ask about things like food, unemployment, when we will be able to go back to work. Just normal things. He has been as kind as possible despite what he is doing, which is why I have hope that there is still love.

 

I am very heartbroken and struggling emotionally, and attacks on my mental health and implying I need help is not necessary or helpful. I would really just appreciate some guidance on steps I can take to repair our relationship and get us back together.

 

Thanks :)

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