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Thread: Do I Have a Chance?

  1. #11
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    Then why are you asking for advice if he is such a great guy? Doesn't take responsibility, game playing, cheat, manipulative, gas lighter.

    You have contradicted most of what you have said. He sounds like a super guy, sending you sexual messages while involved with her. Not only is his highly disrespectful to her, but also disrespectful to you. He is not emotionally cheating on her.

    Also, he is now a felon. Stop blaming his friend, this was on him. Aim higher.

  2. #12
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Google "Hybristophilia"
    Originally Posted by Fitbean
    The abuse was very early on in the relationship. He is not a bad person.

  3. #13
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Fitbean
    This isn’t about just being with someone. I want to be with the person who I love and who has been there for me through my darkest times.
    I'll start here.

    Without quite realizing it fully, I think you've played a bit of a trick on yourself, as happens in toxic relationships. Because if you zoom out a few more degrees? I think you'd see that this man has not "been there" through your "darkest times," but has been the source of a lot of darkness—darkness you have come to value as "special" rather than, well, "toxic." Dark feelings about yourself, your worth, the world. Bonding over brokenness can feel otherworldly and vulnerable, but it's actually pretty cursory, even basic, as the kids would say. When your primary attachment point, aside from looks and sexual chemistry, is brokenness, what you have is a recipe for expanding darkness—getting stuck in it and mistaking it for light, not moving through it toward light.

    Go to the hard facts here, line them up. You have a four year history that started fraught, remains fraught. Tension, pain, troubles: these are the rules. Joy, safety, security: these are the exceptions. He was abusive—early, per your analysis, throughout from what you're offering. He is shady—convicted for being shady in business, now being shady in romance, in the way he is treating you and another woman. These are simple facts, no different than the sky outside my window being blue.

    And you want another chance why?

    I ask that in earnest, not in judgement, because I think what you really want is to avoid answering that question. Dangerous mechanism, that one. The antithesis of light, or any path toward it. You are now flipping the script, defending him to a chorus of internet strangers. I get it. Your history is real, as are your feelings, to say nothing of what seems to be a belief that, two people plagued by darkness can find light, together. And so when people point him out as bad news you may feel that your history and feelings are being minimized, negated.

    But it's not like that, or doesn't have to be.

    Remove your imagination here—the thing writing the story of how this all comes back together into something functional—and what do you have? An epic amount of dysfunction between two attractive human beings. Do I think you have a chance for more of that? For sure. But if you're interested in the truly radical stuff, the stuff that's even "bigger" than darkness, that doesn't require your imagination working overtime to fill in the gaps of reality, I don't think you're going to find that here. Time has proven this. He has proven this.

  4. #14
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    I’m definitely not turned on by any of this. My first boyfriend cheated on me several times, which I discovered and I left him. My next relationship was quite healthy, but he was much older and we wanted different things at the time and had a very amicable breakup. This most recent partner had never cheated, and I whole heartedly trusted him. He was upfront about going through his legal issues from the start, and I chose to accept it and face whatever came. If anything I have a big attachment to him because of the ways he has helped me - sheltering me when I had no place to go, aiding me financially many times throughout our relationship, encouraging me to be happy and work on my issues. He has plenty of his own, but I don’t feel he is a truly bad person. We all make mistakes, and I understand the “why” of what makes people behave certain ways. It’s why I understand what he is doing now - he is doing what he felt I did to him while he was in prison. I don’t think it’s purposely vengeful but he feels justified. My issue is, why does he still want to be friends and help me? I think a truly bad person or sociopath would have discarded me and never looked back.

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  6. #15
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    I do rationally understand that we have been toxic. But we have also shared a lot of love and a lot of support. I have been through a lot in my life before him. Yes I was abused, emotionally, physically and sexually early in my life. I went through years of therapy, took antidepressants. It’s a reason I became a trainer, to help people and inspire confidence, and it’s really what saved my life.

    In dating I was always very guarded and would run at any red flags. With him, I understand why he is the way he is. His father was an alcoholic, abusive, his family does not express affection, he was used by an ex and it hurt him deeply. Going through his legal issues, going to prison and the way he was treated there will mess anyone up.

    I suggested we go to therapy a couple of months ago because I know he suffers from trauma still. It’s why I doubt his new relationship will work, because he is just carrying over all of his issues onto someone new. When we first got together he was extremely depressed, and would often say that I “saved” him. I think he is constantly looking for someone to “save” him and erase his trauma.

    I admittedly do have some codependency and abandonment issues, which is why this is extra painful. I am actually very aware of my trauma and have done A LOT of work to heal.

    The root of the darkness we shared was due to external influences, and it always felt unfair that we struggled so much. My great fear is that this new girl will be easy, she is very young, very basic, I’m sure has never had any major issues in her life.

    I’m still trying to figure out why he wants me in his life, why he tells me he still loves me and cares about me, he wants me to be happy and okay, will always be here to help me with whatever I need. That’s what keeps my hope alive for a reconciliation. I know I wasn’t my best with him towards the end, and I know I can be much better. He has grown a lot in our relationship, but like I said he still has work to do on himself.

    I love how this became all about my mental health lol. I appreciate the concern, but I just want to know if anyone thinks I have a chance at getting him back, how to go about repairing things, and if this new girl will last.

  7. #16
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    I'm not arguing that he is "bad" or "good." That's for the church pews, the judge and juries. Excepting a tiny portion of the human population, I'm a general believer that people, all in all, are good. Flawed, prone to making mistakes, sure. Deserving of forgiveness? Always. And so on and so forth. Kumbaya.

    But that does not mean that good people, or people we see the goodness in, are good for us. I'm a pretty decent guy, for instance, but I can point you toward a few women that I know I am "bad" for, as well as some very wonderful women I know are "bad" for me. I can understand the attachment, of course, the feeling that you almost "owe" him for where he's been good to you in the past, along with "owing" him latitude for his current behavior. Still, all that strikes my mind as transactional, hence my not-accidental emphasis on debt, and I think once we start thinking of emotion and romance in terms of a transaction, where things like sex and forgiveness become currencies, we've jumped the shark every which way to Sunday.

    It's what happens when the ego steers the ship, when two egos lock horns. Your "understanding" of what he is doing now is, I'm sorry, ego driven. I don't mean this judgmentally, as I think "ego" is neither positive or negative, but a universal thing to be aware of, the ego as the little storyteller in our mind that bends things to conform to our story. Look at your interpretations of his actions right now. Rather than see them as an extension of who he is, choices he is making, you're seeing them as a reaction to you. You remain brightest the star in his solar system.

    There's comfort in that, sure, since it minimizes what simply hurts right now: that he's getting it on with a 23-year-old while still sexting with you and making overtures of friendship in the least friendly of contexts. But if all that is just an extension of your powerful connection to each other—an extension of your power, in short—it's more digestible. The story that a "true" bad person/sociopath would have discarded you—well, that's just more storytelling to block out the pain, to break your imagination to rationalize and validate what just amounts to human weakness, on both sides, and two humans who have a history of bringing out more weakness in each other than strength.

    Why does he want to be "friends" with you, put in quotes because you're smart enough to know that how he's behaving is not friendly? Well, again, that's mainly ego. His ego. Cake, plus eating it too. It's not that mysterious, but just core human frailty and weak character. Lots of action on lots of burners: makes for a mess, but also for a more varied, and spicier, meal. Because you feel "bad" for once doing something similar, you're now trying to atone for that by being "good" while he is "bad." Reflect a bit and I think you'll see just how much the dynamic has played out over the past few years, with one of you playing "good" to another's "bad," then switching roles.

    Is any of that good for you? Does any of that evolve into something that truly feels good? I've got an open mind and pretty extravagant imagination, but I can't see it. I don't think you can either, but I think you're looking hard for ways to see things that aren't there.

  8. #17
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Was writing that above when you added you latest.

    Look, I get it. Life has thrown some pretty sharp arrows my way as well, and so I tend to relate to people who have been in some deep trenches, am kind of hardwired to be drawn to them. But more than that? I relate to people who have found a way out of them, for real, rather than those who find excuses to stay put and form connections that validate the work they haven't done.

    The reason is simple. Someone still in the trench will pull me back into it. Doesn't really matter what that person has been through: a tench is a trench, toxic is toxic. You don't get to peace by fighting, and you don't cure sickness with sickness. You just don't, at least in what I've learned in living just a few more years of life than either of you.

    Observe all this as an alien would, as if you two were characters in a movie or video game, and what do you see? Too people who are connected by damage—damage that predated them meeting, damage they've inflicting in connecting—going deeper and deeper into the trench to fix the damage. You'd maybe want to say that the way out is not down, but up, and away.

    Will things last with this woman? Will you get back together? No one can answer those questions—not us, not anyone. But I don't think those questions are nearly as critical as understanding the instinct in asking them, obsessing over them. From where I sit, it looks like a refusal to grow while providing the illusion of growth. Whatever unhealthy and unfortunate experiences you've had in the past—with him and before him—that looks to me like making unhealthy choices in the present. I don't think you need me to tell you how that portends for the future.

  9. #18
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Charles Manson, Richard Ramirez and Ted Bundy all had women doing this for them. Willingly. Sociopathy is a spectrum. It's not all serial killers. It's while collar, cult leaders, dictators, the chump scamming on the street, etc.

    The sine qua non is shifting blame, playing the victim, lack of empathy (except as it functions to manipulate), no remorse (except at parole hearings) and expert manipulation facilitated by the superficial charm you describe.
    Originally Posted by Fitbean
    I visited him, sent money, sent books, wrote letters daily. He felt I wasn’t writing, wasn’t sending enough money, wasn’t sending enough books.

  10. #19
    Platinum Member boltnrun's Avatar
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    "My issue is, why does he still want to be friends and help me? I think a truly bad person or sociopath would have discarded me and never looked back. "

    A user will never discard a fan. Why would he? No matter what you're still doing all these things for him so he'll keep liking you. He knows you won't ever stop being his fan.

    And how is cheating on his current girlfriend by sexting with you "helping" you?

  11. #20
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    Originally Posted by Fitbean
    I’m not so sure. I think if that were the case he would have completely abandoned me. The fact that we still talk and that he is trying to be here for me and help throughout this epidemic would suggest otherwise. Also, I do not and have never done any drugs. Neither does he. We are fitness professionals and very healthy people.
    It doesn't matter.
    He is bad news. He has a record. He has not made good life choices . WOrk on yourself some more - you should go for an upstanding member of society that treats women with respect.

    Serial killers and sex traffickers show "interest" in someone. Doesn't mean you have to give them the time of day.

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