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Thread: Justified cheating - where is the line?

  1. #11
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 4dvz
    Do you think I would be morally justified to cheat her, in order to first of all be happy with my life and secondly to stop bothering her with something she claims she doesn`t need (sex)?
    I'll start here and move backwards. Simple answer: no. For emphasis: NO. That's like me finding moral justification in, I don't know, stealing a Maserati because I'm bummed out driving my '98 Civic but only have $800 in the bank and am too chicken to apply for a new job. Stealing is stealing, cheating is cheating. There is no "moral justification" for doing something we know is inherently wrong.

    So, what to do? Well, you say leaving her is "not an option," although, let's just be factual here, it is an option. Relationships are just a choice. We always have the "option" to end them, and that's partly what makes them so special: that two individual people who exercise their free will and choose each other, day after day, without being bound to do so. Now, if you want to choose to stay—cool, own that choice. But own it without the whole martyr shtick. Not a cute look, that. Not a turn on.

    Would you consider an open relationship? It's a thing people try, and a thing that does work for a small minority. Maybe you're part of that subset of the population, both of you? Just a thought. Or: couple's therapy? Another thing people try, with success. You clean out some emotional pipes, reaffirm those connections, within and with another and, often, the spark is rediscovered. Happens. These are the kind of things to think about, and talk about, rather than thinking about cheating and letting the tiny violin of your ego pen an opera that makes infidelity okay because you're the Saddest Man On Planet Earth.

    Now, let's get to some bigger ideas, with this as a jumping off point:

    Originally Posted by 4dvz
    I experience love as a governing force in my life. If I love someone, I`m willing to go till the end instead of walking away, even if it would eat me alive.
    I read that and, just being frank, what I think is: nonsense. It's a very romantic gloss on what is an unstable and unhealthy and, in my opinion, surface-level understanding of love. Not even sure it is love, honestly, but more like obsession and possession stirred with a ladle of low self-esteem. Were I to translate that sentence without the frills it would be something like: "My life is governed by a deep fear of being alone, and as such I repeatedly find myself in unfulfilling relationships because I only know how to feel validated through other humans in general and other humans providing orgasms in particular."

    You should be the governing force of your life, because, well, you are. Love is a feeling, not a trophy or reward or a hill to die on and be valorized for your efforts in battle. We don't get points for love, or for being unhappy, or for compromising our authentic selves in the "name of love." You seem to value a story in which you are a noble man destined to suffer more than the story that you are just a human looking for connection. Something to think about, perhaps. Make love all about you and your wants and your ego and you're cutting out the best part of it all: the other person, the complete mystery of that being.

    Which leads to this:

    Originally Posted by DancingFool
    As for your pattern, honestly look in the mirror because the common denominator is you. Women don't just lose their sex drive same as you don't. Either you are choosing specifically women who are sexually incompatible with you from the get go or something is happening in your relationships that turns them off completely. Time to look at causes rather than whine about wanting to go find some ho on the side.
    The thing that strikes me in your post is that you seem to "measure" love primarily through sex, view women primarily as vessels for sex, and measure yourself, in ways, through sex. Most women? They will tire of that, fast. They will get turned off. They do not want to be treated as a preferred substitute for masturbation, but to be seen and heard—and, by extension, touched—as human beings who exist outside of your or anyone's needs and story. Does that compute, at all? Because when I hear you making certain transitional bargains—financial security in exchange of sex—I can't help but hear a man who does not quite believe women are people but something more akin to currency.

    How I personally look at sex? If there's not a rich emotional, spiritual, and intellectual connection, it will invariably fade away. Makes me wonder if you've ever been in a relationship—even with yourself—where those other points are explored and cultivated. You may find that if you put your attention there your sex life will take on new dimensions.

  2. #12
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    Sex is NOT a bartering tool.

  3. #13
    Platinum Member SherrySher's Avatar
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    If you want to go to an escort, be a decent enough man to at the very least, and tell her what you're up to.

    You're given free will to stay with her and then go to hookers or escorts, so then give her the free will to decide if she will stay with you after knowing what you're choosing to do with your body and the risks you will take.

    Anything else is downright wrong. Then it becomes about lying, hiding, cheating, etc. Besides the fact that you'll risk your health and hers if you go to hookers.

  4. #14
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 4dvz
    To you who said that nobody owes sex to his/hers partner; You are wrong.
    I'm rarely this frank, but: this is just so, so wrong, and until you can call yourself out I think you're in for a world of torment and confusion.

    You want to know what it is people "owe" each other? Absolutely nothing, save for being themselves. That is the beginning and end of it. Partnership is not a transaction. We are not owed washed dishes or paid bills or daily orgasms, in exchange for being a partner. People are not possessions, or supporting actors in the story of our lives. Treat them like that and, as you're learning, the connection will be a shallow, unsatisfying one.

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  6. #15
    Platinum Member SherrySher's Avatar
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    It's more to do with, you HOPE that you chose a partner that is equally attracted to you as you are to them. You make efforts to remain close and intimate, (it doesn't just happen).

    BUT it still does not mean you are owed anything.

  7. #16
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Cheating would be to satisfy your cravings, no? Not for the relationship. That has nothing to do with love. Also you seem to threaten and coerce if they don't oblige you. Hardly sexy, hardly love. Basically sex is a sport for you. Do these women get any pleasure out of it or is it all about you? It sounds like a massive turn off to them to beg, hound, threaten like someone looking for their own fix to get themselves off. Open the relationship or pay for it.
    Originally Posted by 4dvz
    I have realized long time ago, that I`m kind of a sex addict but in hell of a good way if you ask me. I love sex, I want to come up with new stuff, try almost everything and make it an daily adventure. She just didn`t want to have sex as often anymore, and I was in the same hell again. She had trouble understanding my needs anymore, and I ended up blaming her, pressuring her, etc..

  8. #17
    Platinum Member Lambert's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what your partner thinks.

    You basically, want an open relationship. If she doesn't, then there's your answer.

    My comment to you, even though you didn't ask about this aspect is, there are women with high sex drives that don't diminish over time.

    Just because that has not been your experience, doesn't mean it isn't possible. sexuality is just like any other component of a compatibility. Just as a relationship that is only sex, a relationship that has none, must be wanted by both people to work long term.

    I believe all relationships are good ones, until they are not... some take longer than others to reach that point where, you gotta ask yourself, is this the relationship for me, for my future? the past is not the reason to stay, the future is..... what's the future health of this situation?

    I think resentment if you don't cheat. Moving on with another person, if you do.

    You said you don't want advice to end it and you'll die on the vine to preserve it. Well there's the answer......

    But the end is near anyway.... Your dilemma is the classic, I want what I want, so I'll only see what supports my desire, not reality. And you'll waste a bunch of time in the process.

  9. #18
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    No, it’s not okay. Ever. If you decide to stay in a situation that makes you unhappy, that choice is yours and yours alone.

    No one is forcing you to do anything you don’t want to do. Man up and own it. And do so without infringing on the lives of others, especially the ones who trust you with their heart.

    Honestly, the writing is on the wall that you’re unhappy. Instead of choosing to do the wrong thing, do the mature, respectful and right thing. For you.

  10. #19
    Platinum Member smackie9's Avatar
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    You have to ask yourself...why does this keep happening? You keep pointing the finger at them, but maybe the fault lies within you.

  11. #20
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    You've said a lot about your needs, but what about hers? As you have a pattern of your partners' desire for sex dwindling then maybe you need to consider that their needs aren't being met by you.

    If you are treating sex as a transaction or something you are owed, well, that in itself would be enough to put any woman off. If being in bed is all about you and you make no effort to turn her on or satisfy her then again, why would any partner still want to have sex?

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