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When You are Narcissistic and Also Empathetic or Easy to Manipulate


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Something I have been thinking about and struggling lately, (and through the course of my life), with is how to deal with narcissism, both internally and externally. I am a very sensitive person who is very self-critical and has a narcicisstic side which craves affirmation and attention from others and which can be cold and sometimes manipulative and exploitative. Part of me wants to feel special, and I can be very self-absorbed and selfish. I can also be the opposite of these things (I think). I am becoming less in denial about this narcissism part of my personality and I want to change it. I feel like I have a fractured personality to a degree and that is scary. At the same time, I have a very pushover, people pleasing side to my personality and I've struggled with setting boundaries with people and feeling that I am entitled to do that without guilt. I'm getting better at this and it creates such a sense of relief. I'm a person who historically can be manipulated with guilt. I used to be very sensitive to other's suffering, I am not dead to it now but often I don't feel the appropriate emotion or empathy. I'm too self-preocupied. Sometimes I am in touch with feelings of compassion and caring for others and sometimes that feels good and healthy. However it can also be of an extreme type (like I can't bear the thought of a person's suffering - particularly with family members or anyone who touches a certain part of me.

 

I feel it's not healthy to be too overwhelmed by other's feelings (and I'm not in that state most of the time). I feel like I sometimes detach, and that scares me a lot and makes me wonder who I really am and if I'm pathological in some way. It's not just that I detach, it's that I feel I have a narcissistic side which is absolutely demented but it's like an addiction/buffer against feeling like I'm going to disintegrate or something. A buffer against feeling like I can't face the world. But it's not something I'm proud of, it disgusts me and makes me feel worthless. I had some childhood trauma and emeshment and have always struggled with self-esteem and toxic shame. I have a hard time holding onto a sense of self. I know my ideals but worry I'm not up to the task of putting them into practice due to my damaged side. If I get really in the grip of that I can feel suicidal ideation. I'm trying to re-parent myself and develop self-love. I have made a lot of progress with this, especially in the past months. It is what is allowing me to be more aware of the darker side of my personality and own it. So I usually feel a sense of optimism and hope and sometimse I reallly feel peace. Other times I feel the opposite, but I think it's gradually getting better. I'm in therapy.

 

I'm also someone who constantly strives to see the world through other lenses and perspectives which I think is a strength, but taken too far it leaves me to feel a lack of courage of conviction in what I believe and stand for and what I perceive as reality. (It's so easy for me to step into a point of view which opposes mine (like sexism) and then my brain will identify with that point of view to the point that I question my own values (equality). Or, the same sort of thing can happen when I'm in conflict with someone. Due to the fact that I don't trust myself and my own motives (due to the character flaws I have), understanding reality and other people's intentions and knowing when I'm justified to set boundaries and speak up is challenging. I think I'm making progress with this but sometimes I question all the progress I have made because of the weak sense of self and the knowledge of my shortcomings which feel so big. And it's hard for me to distinguish between healthy self-esteem and narcissism and easy for a sense of healthy self-esteem to snowball in to narcissistic feelings and desires. I'm trying to address this by re-parenting myself. I'm pleased with the results but am not where I want to be and worry that I am a toxic person that people should avoid.

 

The thing I'm struggling with is setting boundaries with others who are dysfunctional. I don't know if they or I are right because I know that we are both dysfunctional. I deal with people at work who are very narcissistic and sometimes I feel exploited/abused (subtly often). I don't want to feel controlled by these people. I can be paranoid though. I can also be very trusting and gullible. Ugh. I need some outside perspective on how to set boundaries with toxic people (who are not necessarily bad people) when I know I am a toxic person (striving to be healthy). I would appreciate your feedback and insights.

 

It's terrifying to think that I'm an irrideemably bad person or to think I'm causing suffering on innocent people (or anyone unless it has a constructive purpose). It's also really awful and scary to feel l like I'm being abused. (I've been in abusive relationship(s) and sometimes feel the situation at work is super dysfunctional. Sometimes I 100% blame myself and my toxicity (which is hopefully a crazy distortion). Sometimes I feel like a victim of these people. Sometimes I think nothing is really wrong, and I should stop worrying so much. But toxicity can be normalized and I don't want that and I don't want to be enabler or a victim (or a perpetrator). Thank you!

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To answer your question about how to set boundaries, you need to simplify your thought process as opposed to thinking it's so complicated.

 

Boundaries are about respect and treating others the way you would like to be treated. Boundaries are lines you do not cross nor allow others to cross either. Boundaries are about fairness between you and them.

 

I too have to deal with certain narcissists and I treat them in a cordial manner yet I'm not close to them which is very much a boundary indeed. I'm still polite to them without getting chummy. This sends a clear message that while there's respect between us, we're not close nor will we ever be.

 

I'm cautious and distrustful so boundaries are also about treading lightly and not overstepping those bounds.

 

With colleagues, do your job, remain polite but leave it at that only. Boundaries are about your self-control, learning to say 'no' when required and handling yourself by practicing good diplomacy.

 

I commend you for admitting your shortcomings regarding your interpersonal relationships. All narcissists, sociopaths, jerks and egotists whom I know would never admit to their huge flaws in a million years. Unfortunately, they're all incurable. However, you have hope because you've admitted it which is incredibly rare!

 

You can improve by placing yourself in other people's shoes which is empathy; feeling for others. You don't necessarily have to be new changed saint overnight; just be kind without ulterior motives. Be kind unconditionally because it makes other people feel respected and you'll discover that you will gain respect yourself because it's called "doing the right thing." A new you will make atmospheres more peaceful.

 

In the meantime, continue your professional therapy.

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The best thing to do is get evaluated by a doctor MD and get a referral to a psychologist for ongoing support. Tossing around cliche terms and self diagnosing is merely ruminating and doing more harm than good. Get real help for real solutions. You'll start feeling better.

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Thank you for your replies. figureitout23, you're right that only a doctor can make that diagnosis. I've been reading a lot and watching videos on narcissism to help me deal with certain people in my life. I don't think that they are necessarily narcissists, but what I have learned is that narcissistic traits display along a continuum. I know I have some traits and so do people I work with. But, I may be blowing my own traits way out of proportion as I struggle with self-esteem in general and social anxiety. So sometimes I think the worst about myself. But I also hide parts of myself and have discovered some very toxic personality traits. Maybe I should just label myself that way - a person who is somewhat fragmented and who has some toxic fragments which are coping mechanisms that I don't want to indulge and want to get rid of.

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To answer your question about how to set boundaries, you need to simplify your thought process as opposed to thinking it's so complicated.

 

Boundaries are about respect and treating others the way you would like to be treated. Boundaries are lines you do not cross nor allow others to cross either. Boundaries are about fairness between you and them.

 

I too have to deal with certain narcissists and I treat them in a cordial manner yet I'm not close to them which is very much a boundary indeed. I'm still polite to them without getting chummy. This sends a clear message that while there's respect between us, we're not close nor will we ever be.

 

I'm cautious and distrustful so boundaries are also about treading lightly and not overstepping those bounds.

 

With colleagues, do your job, remain polite but leave it at that only. Boundaries are about your self-control, learning to say 'no' when required and handling yourself by practicing good diplomacy.

 

I commend you for admitting your shortcomings regarding your interpersonal relationships. All narcissists, sociopaths, jerks and egotists whom I know would never admit to their huge flaws in a million years. Unfortunately, they're all incurable. However, you have hope because you've admitted it which is incredibly rare!

 

You can improve by placing yourself in other people's shoes which is empathy; feeling for others. You don't necessarily have to be new changed saint overnight; just be kind without ulterior motives. Be kind unconditionally because it makes other people feel respected and you'll discover that you will gain respect yourself because it's called "doing the right thing." A new you will make atmospheres more peaceful.

 

In the meantime, continue your professional therapy.

 

Cherylyn, thanks for your compassionate and well thought out reply, I appreciate it! This makes a lot of sense and is helpful.

 

I'm struggling at work because I work in a closed office with just 3 other people and my boss and one of my colleagues display narcissistic traits. I think they are ok people overall but my coworker does some really exploitative stuff. I have felt bullied by her before (luckily that stopped as others disapproved of her behavior or maybe she realized it was messed up). In an effort to maintain the peace and because I lack social connections where I'm living I have probably gone beyond polite with her into almost a friend territory. My relationship with her cycles between feeling like she is exerting intimidation and control to feeling like she is a good, kind person who also has flaws who I can relate to and who I enjoy. I think I need to distance from her but I don't know how much. And I worry that I'm contributing to low group morale if I just kind of avoid personal interactions with half of the people I work with. However, that is likely the healthier option, you're right.

 

It gets more tricky with my boss but that's a long story.

 

Sometimes I genuinely enjoy being there and the people and other times not at all. I think maybe we just all have some dysfunction in our background and it is a volatile mix. Plus personality clashes sometimes. I just don't want to be walked over nor do I want to drain other people with my insecurities and my desires for approval and emotional sustanence which really shouldn't be something that comes into the workplace. (And sometimes it doesn't).

 

Thanks.

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The best thing to do is get evaluated by a doctor MD and get a referral to a psychologist for ongoing support. Tossing around cliche terms and self diagnosing is merely ruminating and doing more harm than good. Get real help for real solutions. You'll start feeling better.

 

I appreciate your perspective. I do have a counselor who I see. However, I don't think my post was ruminating, it was more wanting to write it all out to get some more clarity about it and to get other perspectives. My counselor is helpful, but as I see it, all doctor's are human and psychology isn't such a black and white science compared to the hard sciences. So I get a lot out of my therapy sessions, (and I really like my counselor), but I take things with a grain of salt. I haven't been asked to be diagnosed for narcissistic personality disorder because I don't think I have that, I think I just have some traits that could fall under the umbrella of narcissism(and which I feel are more extreme than the norm). But I don't have the super exploitative traits and as I realize my toxic side I work to change it. However, I probably did use the word narcissism too loosely/freely. I don't want to paint the wrong picture of myself.

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Cherylyn,

 

I was thinking about your reply again. What do you recommend when you are confronted by passive aggressive behavior? Currently, I'm trying to just ignore it or sometimes see if I can get the person to talk to me directly. It frustrates me a lot and I feel like I just want to ignore/dismiss it. But then I wonder if the person acting out passive aggressively is communicating something that is something I should take to heart (but they're just doing it in a passive aggressive way).

 

 

Thanks

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Cherylyn,

 

I was thinking about your reply again. What do you recommend when you are confronted by passive aggressive behavior? Currently, I'm trying to just ignore it or sometimes see if I can get the person to talk to me directly. It frustrates me a lot and I feel like I just want to ignore/dismiss it. But then I wonder if the person acting out passive aggressively is communicating something that is something I should take to heart (but they're just doing it in a passive aggressive way).

 

 

Thanks

 

So I realize I’m not Cherylyn but I’m curious what your counselor says about these work issues?

 

I must say, for you to express your wanting to change, this post kinda feeds into the whole need for validation, soothing, and comforting. Which, hey, we all need it from time to time, myself included so I get the desire, I just don’t get the drive to seek it out while also stating you want it to change? Wouldn’t the first step be to not seek those things out? Especially if it’s on top of the counseling you’re receiving? Again I’m not knocking you seeking advise, I’m against the self diagnosis thing as well as labeling others, but again seeking reassurance and advise, totally relatable, BUT if your goal is to change it because you sense it’s becoming an issue... I’m confused.

 

I hope you clarify.

 

FWIW, to me it seems you’re internalizing others actions and taking them personally.

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Cherylyn,

 

I was thinking about your reply again. What do you recommend when you are confronted by passive aggressive behavior? Currently, I'm trying to just ignore it or sometimes see if I can get the person to talk to me directly. It frustrates me a lot and I feel like I just want to ignore/dismiss it. But then I wonder if the person acting out passive aggressively is communicating something that is something I should take to heart (but they're just doing it in a passive aggressive way).

 

Cherylyn, thanks for your compassionate and well thought out reply, I appreciate it! This makes a lot of sense and is helpful.

 

I'm struggling at work because I work in a closed office with just 3 other people and my boss and one of my colleagues display narcissistic traits. I think they are ok people overall but my coworker does some really exploitative stuff. I have felt bullied by her before (luckily that stopped as others disapproved of her behavior or maybe she realized it was messed up). In an effort to maintain the peace and because I lack social connections where I'm living I have probably gone beyond polite with her into almost a friend territory. My relationship with her cycles between feeling like she is exerting intimidation and control to feeling like she is a good, kind person who also has flaws who I can relate to and who I enjoy. I think I need to distance from her but I don't know how much. And I worry that I'm contributing to low group morale if I just kind of avoid personal interactions with half of the people I work with. However, that is likely the healthier option, you're right.

 

It gets more tricky with my boss but that's a long story.

 

Sometimes I genuinely enjoy being there and the people and other times not at all. I think maybe we just all have some dysfunction in our background and it is a volatile mix. Plus personality clashes sometimes. I just don't want to be walked over nor do I want to drain other people with my insecurities and my desires for approval and emotional sustanence which really shouldn't be something that comes into the workplace. (And sometimes it doesn't).

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Luckily, your coworker stopped bullying you. You can keep a safe distance because that's what boundaries are. This is done by you because you can't control other people. You govern your own behavior. Conduct yourself in a well mannered, respectful, polite manner, know when to decline, speak up fairly when necessary and other times just put your head down (concentrate), get to work, earn your paycheck and go home. Act natural and be nice without getting chummy nor close. There is a way to handle this type of dynamic peacefully.

 

We all feel like we enjoy being with others and other times we're sick 'n tired of them. What you're feeling is perfectly normal. However, never wear your annoyance, irritation or displeasure on your sleeve. Don your best poker face. Remember to remain peaceful and more than civil. Always remain well mannered, polite, respectful and professional. It's all you can do. Don't get fixated on mental problems and insecurities. Do the best you can everyday and be a good person. Then with practice, it will become a daily habit and you won't have to psychoanalyze yourself nor others to death.

 

If you're confronted with passive aggressive behavior, don't react to it. Go about your business, get your job done while remaining fair, kind, well mannered, polite and respectful towards everyone. Be very careful with written forms of correspondence. Even when others are disrespectful, it doesn't mean you join their club. Always treat others with respect. You don't have to go overboard with niceness but treat others with respect. Remember, you can't change people. All you can do is exercise your own self-control. Don't allow others to get under your skin. Don't pay any mind to passive aggressive behavior because perpetrators are trying to get a rise out of you. Continue to ignore and when you must interact with these types of coworkers, act natural, be kind, respectful, mind your manners, be polite and professional. It's all you can do. You do what you have to do in order to maintain overall peace for everyone. This is what I did when I worked with passive aggressive types. It was hell let me tell you but it's all about your conduct and how you handle it maturely and to the best of your ability always. It's about your own composure and classy behavior. Always have class. Then when you go home, you are proud of your classy behavior, how you handled yourself in challenging situations and your self confidence will soar. With high self esteem and self confidence, you will be able to be strong at the workplace everyday.

 

This world is full of despicable people. We're in it. At work, you can't escape people with all sorts of irritating personalities and unsavory characteristic traits. All you can do is make the best of the situation by controlling yourself and maintaining peace. This is what you have to do in order to earn your paycheck. Be above it with your own commendable character. Stay strong from within and be tough in your mind. You can do this.

 

Also, I've noticed you are very humble which is commendable. Narcissists, manipulators, sociopaths, egotists, gaslighters, non-empathetic types and the whole ugly lot are never humble and think they're God's greatest gift to mankind. They think they're completely innocent and everyone else on this planet are the insane, crazy ones.

 

You're improving yourself with professional therapy. Hang in there. You will be fine!

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What makes you believe that a counselor will "diagnose you with narcissism" if you ask? It's great that you are getting a lot out of therapy, however be careful of analysis paralysis. (

 

Dr Google and Nurse YouTube are fictional characters. They can't diagnose you any more than a soap opera character could. Get out of your own head. The self-absorption inhibits insight and objectivity. Interface with real life more, rather than standing in the sidelines wrapped up in your mind.

I get a lot out of my therapy sessions, (and I really like my counselor), but I take things with a grain of salt. I haven't been asked to be diagnosed for narcissistic personality disorder because I don't think I have that
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Never react impulsively nor allow your emotions get the best of you during challenging situations otherwise you'll regret it and an unnecessary argument or discord will ensue. Remember, maintain peace, exercise self-control, have integrity and always have class.

 

Just because others in this world act like animals, it doesn't mean you have to join the club. Always conduct yourself honorably.

 

If anything is out of control and out of whack, then take the proper channels by involving management and HR to handle situations fairly and calmly. Never take matters into your own hands because this regrettable action will sorely backfire. Also, going this route is your safety net and job protection.

 

Hopefully, you won't need to resort to Draconian measures.

 

In the meantime, stay strong and be tough internally. Handle yourself with grace.

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