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Confused about sudden separation


Whirling D

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Hi everybody, this is my first time posting on here, and it seems like a good supportive place to be.

 

Obviously I’m struggling, or I wouldn’t be posting on here, right?

 

The girl I have been dating and I are both in our late 50s. I have been divorced for a handful of years and have had difficulty attracting women to date… I guess I’m a little outside of the box, so to speak. My lady friend has only been divorced for less than a year, and it was from a toxic relationship with plenty of trauma. Her job as an ER nurse, and her troubled family, are also stressors.

 

We met briefly last February at an event, and ran into each other several times over the next few months at similar events. We began texting ferociously shortly thereafter, and by the beginning of August, we became pretty much inseparable.

 

We have been going strong ever since, with almost no friction and with a closeness and honesty that was very refreshing. It wasn’t perfect, and I struggled with some things, but I feel I have grown enough by myself over the last bunch of years that I was able to get over myself and let it be what it was and let her be who she is. I thought that was an important step. It has been sometimes hard for me to keep connected, but I was able to be honest and she was wonderfully receptive.

 

A week ago, we revisited a discussion about politics. She leans one way and I lean the other. Both of these conversations have gotten quite heated and it seemed though she was fairly angry and hostile in her presentation. That got under my skin a little bit.

 

Fast forward to this past Sunday night. I hadn’t seen her since the previous argument, but I had checked in by text and asked her if she was OK the way the discussion went, to which she replied she was just fine, and that she would never let politics get in the way of any of her relationships. So, I was still feeling a little bit sensitive when we got together for dinner, and I was having a hard time feeling connected with her, and letting her connect with me. I fell asleep fairly quickly without much contact and remaining distant. I wasn’t conveying anger, I was just struggling with feeling attached and connected.

 

We both woke up in the wee hours of the morning and I gently told her that I was feeling anxious and fearful. I explained to her that our conversations about politics, and her apparent anger and hostility in her responses, were frightening me and making me feel emotionally unsafe. She was very upset that I was calling her angry and hostile, and insisted she is not an angry and hostile person. I tried to re-define what I meant by that, but I don’t think she was buying what I was selling. For about the next hour and a half, well into the wee hours of the morning, I was trying to encourage her to engage in conversation to try to come to a mutual understanding of what I was trying to say to her, and why I was struggling. She was angry hostile and even mean during this conversation, and it ended around 4 AM with her telling me she had to reconsider whether her and I would be a good fit. This came completely and utterly out of the blue, and I have never experienced anything like that with her. She has always been so positive and reinforcing about her and I, even talking regularly about our future. I was pushing her that night pretty hard, though, to dig deep into what I was trying to say and what I was feeling. Obviously, she was in no space to want to do that.

 

The next morning, she got up almost as if nothing had happened. At the door, upon leaving, I asked her how she was feeling, at which time she said that she needed to think about whether or not her and I were a good fit. I was devastated. She told me she would contact me in a few days with her decision. Mind you, this is after months and months of feeling like this girl and I would know each other for the rest of our lives, with almost zero signs of real problems or friction, other than our political debates those three occasions.

 

A day and a half later, she sent me a well-thought-out text, telling me that she loved me and my daughter, but saying that she didn’t think she could handle the stress of this deep relationship. She said she couldn’t understand where my head went that night, given that she had told me that she wasn’t feeling resentful of our arguments. She said that she thought that maybe the trauma of her past was still not settled, and that maybe she needed to be alone to be able to work out her past situations. There were a lot of maybes, but no definitives. She didn’t actually say she didn’t want to see me again, and she ended the text by saying that I was her best friend and she didn’t know what to do. That left me with the feeling that maybe there was room for continued growth.

 

I texted her right back and told her I understood what she was saying and that I would offer anything that I could to help her feel better about things. I suggested that we not put pressure on each other and we didn’t have to make any large decisions right then. She seemed very positive about that response, and said several things that made me believe that we would get past this and continue moving forward, although maybe at a slightly more cautious pace.

 

The next day, she texted me good morning, as usual, and she seemed rather upbeat. We texted a few times during the day, and she said a few more things that indicated we would be continuing growing with each other in the future.

 

Historically, I always gave her the respect of reaching out to me when she was ready, and she seemed perfectly fine with that. It also made me feel that by not being the assertive one with communication that it would make her feel I was not coming across too heavy.

 

Yesterday, sadly, I believe she would not have even texted me, if I had not gently reached out to say hello. She was completely distant, and it was hard to get a word out of her. I didn’t press it, and consequently we really said almost nothing to each other all day. That was pretty upsetting and a 180° turn from the previous day. I knew she had the day off, and I knew she had way too much going on in her life.

 

So, I knew from the beginning that this girl had a lot of trauma background, but she always said that she was feeling very positive and good, and it was clear from the beginning that her and I adored each other, and she always did everything in her power to make me feel special and valued. Until Sunday night. I saw a side of her that I should’ve expected to see you at some point. She was angry, hostile and even mean. I don’t feel I was that way at all, but in her separation letter to me, she said that it hurt her that during our late night negotiations, when our arguments about politics came up again, that I questioned her values and what she stood for. I don’t feel like I ever disrespected her values. I may have questioned how she comes up with her political leanings, and I implied that her political convictions aren't well-informed… I felt I needed to be honest. That didn’t go over well, obviously.

 

So, what am I asking about all of this? What are you hearing or observing after reading all of this?

 

My approach, in the last week, has the been step back and let her experience whatever she is experiencing, but let her know I am still here. I haven’t been aggressive or assertive, and I haven’t pressured her for anything. I would allow her all the space she needs to figure things out, as long as there is a likelihood that she is not going to continue to snap and move further away. Needless to say, if I am writing this, I am devastated by the turn of events and it has fed into my huge fear of abandonment and trust.

 

Speaking of trust, that was part of her separation text, as well. She said she had no idea why I would not trust her and what she said about letting go of political arguments. She said that she had tried really hard to lower her guards against trust and could not imagine why I would question her honesty and straightforwardness regarding our disagreements. I guess I get it?

 

Then there’s the issue of her Christmas party tomorrow. She has been expecting me to go for months, and then the aftermath of our ordeal, she had even said that I was still welcome to come, given that I had already told my young daughter that we were going. that wasn’t a rousing “I still want you to come“ and it almost felt she said that because she was concerned that my daughter would feel disappointed not to come. She has not mentioned the party since Tuesday, which is a little disappointing. I don’t know if I should bring it up with her or if her lack of mentioning it is a sign of her feeling awkward about me coming. Would you pursue that conversation or go even if she does mention it again? It will be mostly her family members and significant others. I suspect if she doesn’t bring it up again that means she’s feeling unsure of presenting me as her significant other. Is that a death knell for our relationship?

 

So what are you guys hearing me say about all this, and what are your feelings as to what she might be experiencing and what I should do to increase the chance of keeping this girl in my life? Although it hasn’t been perfect, this lady offers so much, and I have felt so lucky over the last few months to have her. To see it suddenly crumble like this has been devastating.

 

What to do? I am brokenhearted.

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Well… Update…

 

Much to my surprise, she texted me early this morning in a fairly upbeat tone. I responded in an upbeat way, And reached outside of my comfort zone, and perhaps not necessarily prudent, and told her that I would like to see her when she is available, and that I missed her.

 

She responded by saying that her party was tomorrow and that my daughter and I can come if we want. I noticed that she didn’t say she “wanted” us to come, but I may be splitting hairs?

 

So… Do I wear big boy pants and just go with no expectations, or try to check in with her regarding what her comfort level is and what she expects for her and I over the next little while? My gut tells me I should just not put any pressure on this girl and just go to the party with a smiling face. It will be so incredibly awkward. There is still so much to be said. I get a sense that she doesn’t want to do any talking right now.

 

What would you do?

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Seriously dude??

You had a heated discussion over politics and kept on and on bringing it up???

Let it go !!!

 

You text her asking if she is ok after the discussion? Have a nice day would have been a more appropriate text.

Then you bring up in the middle of the night about it again!? And then again in the morning before she leaves??!

 

And you have the cheek to call her angry and hostile?? Why? Because the discussion over something impersonal didn’t go the way you liked ? You didn’t “win” the discussion??

 

And now she said you and your daughter can come to her Christmas party and you are wanting to question her intentions??

Since you are the one supposedly disconnected after a stupid politics discussion , I’m hardly surprised she didn’t say oh I really want you to come. But of course she wants you to come. She wouldn’t have mentioned it otherwise!!

 

And now you want to check her “comfort level”?

 

Give the woman a break already!!!

How can she possibly trust you when you question every single tiny thing!!!

 

Enjoy the freakin Christmas party and give her a bit of positive attention for a change!

 

Have your political views and let her have hers!

But keep them out of the relationship!!

 

Geez!!!

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Seriously dude??

You had a heated discussion over politics and kept on and on bringing it up???

Let it go !!!

 

You text her asking if she is ok after the discussion? Have a nice day would have been a more appropriate text.

Then you bring up in the middle of the night about it again!? And then again in the morning before she leaves??!

 

And you have the cheek to call her angry and hostile?? Why? Because the discussion over something impersonal didn’t go the way you liked ? You didn’t “win” the discussion??

 

And now she said you and your daughter can come to her Christmas party and you are wanting to question her intentions??

Since you are the one supposedly disconnected after a stupid politics discussion , I’m hardly surprised she didn’t say oh I really want you to come. But of course she wants you to come. She wouldn’t have mentioned it otherwise!!

 

And now you want to check her “comfort level”?

 

Give the woman a break already!!!

How can she possibly trust you when you question every single tiny thing!!!

 

Enjoy the freakin Christmas party and give her a bit of positive attention for a change!

 

Have your political views and let her have hers!

But keep them out of the relationship!!

 

Geez!!!

 

OK… I am trying to read between the lines of your response, and I think I get what you were trying to say. However, somethings need to be clarified.

 

First of all, I have been almost nothing but kind and respectful to this lady. Our only downfall was heated debate about politics, and my inability to feel secure after that, given that she conveys herself as angry and hostile during the discussions. I wasn’t really going on and on about it, but it came up in the middle of the night, when I told her it was important that her and I be able to discuss politics calmly and not let it affect us, or me, as it has. I think I was responding more to her piss and vinegar and hostility then I was the fact that we have differences of opinion, but that’s another discussion that we should be having.

 

Yes, I was putting a lot of pressure on her that night, in the wee hours, because her demeanor came out of nowhere, and her disconnect seems uncharacteristic of her. I wasn’t yelling at her, I wasn’t accusing her of anything, I was merely trying to get her to open up the dialogue.

 

I didn’t bring up our arguments or politics the next morning upon leaving, I merely asked her if she had any closing remarks to say before I left, given that in the wee hours of distress, she said she had to rethink our situation. I didn’t harass her, I didn’t put pressure on her, I merely asked her.

 

I’ve given her all the room she has asked for, thus far, without complaint and without pressure. I don’t know if you could call checking in once in a while and this morning telling her that I would like to see her at some point is considered pressure.

 

I hear you, I need to take a chill pill, but I don’t get opportunities like this coming along very often, so it’s important for me to try to play this out properly.

 

I appreciate your response, although your delivery is a little harsh. :)

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So… Do I wear big boy pants and just go with no expectations,

 

- yes.

 

or try to check in with her regarding what her comfort level is and what she expects for her and I over the next little while?

 

- no

 

My gut tells me I should just not put any pressure on this girl and just go to the party with a smiling face. It will be so incredibly awkward. There is still so much to be said. I get a sense that she doesn’t want to do any talking right now.

 

- yes. Your gut is giving you the correct message. Your head and your heart are lairs.

 

Well, it's a hard lesson to learn, but it's best to keep things light-hearted and fun in a relationship, and leave the heavy discussions and discussions of politics elsewhere. There is a difference between openness and honesty. Be honest with your SO, but only open to your counselor or with your buddies. You only have a limited time together with your SO. You have a choice to talk about light-hearted stuff or heavy stuff. Choose the positive things, it's more romantic.

 

She also may have some issues of her own.

 

Also, you need to get over your trust issues - talk to a counselor. Ironically, they love you the most when they know you can live without them. You are showing her that's not true, and needy can be a turnoff.

 

Google "nice guy"

 

If she said you can go to the xmas party, go. Then stop with your drivel - it's a turn-off.

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Yes, you're way too intense. Have your political discussions with someone who likes to debate or agrees with you. I remember when I was driving with a co-worker and the discussion veered to religious beliefs and eventually I said, "You're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours, so it's best we never talk about this kind of stuff again."

 

It's like you keep picking away at a scab, reopening the wound. She said she was fine and you couldn't let it go. You say you have emotional baggage. Read articles on how to ditch that toxic, useless garbage, or you will sabotage any relationship you're in. Abandonment issues? There are never any guarantees in life if a relationship will work or not. Learn that the only control you have is to be the best bf you can be, and that you should have made a fulfilling life besides having a gf, with hobbies, hanging out with guy friends and family, and with that support system, you will handle a breakup without falling into a million pieces.

 

Never text about major issues. Save those discussions for in person. It's the holiday season. How about embracing the magic of the season? Bring a decadent dessert to her party. Wear an ugly Christmas sweater to be funny. Plan a magical night on New Year's Eve with her if she's not working. Looks like you have a chance to right your wrongs, so make it happen.

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Yes, you're way too intense. Have your political discussions with someone who likes to debate or agrees with you. I remember when I was driving with a co-worker and the discussion veered to religious beliefs and eventually I said, "You're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to change yours, so it's best we never talk about this kind of stuff again."

 

It's like you keep picking away at a scab, reopening the wound. She said she was fine and you couldn't let it go. You say you have emotional baggage. Read articles on how to ditch that toxic, useless garbage, or you will sabotage any relationship you're in. Abandonment issues? There are never any guarantees in life if a relationship will work or not. Learn that the only control you have is to be the best bf you can be, and that you should have made a fulfilling life besides having a gf, with hobbies, hanging out with guy friends and family, and with that support system, you will handle a breakup without falling into a million pieces.

 

Never text about major issues. Save those discussions for in person. It's the holiday season. How about embracing the magic of the season? Bring a decadent dessert to her party. Wear an ugly Christmas sweater to be funny. Plan a magical night on New Year's Eve with her if she's not working. Looks like you have a chance to right your wrongs, so make it happen.

 

Thank you, Andrina. Appreciate your response.

 

I am too intense. But not always. One of the things that we were able to do for most of our time together was have fun but also talk about serious things.

 

The intensity has really only been within the last week, and was due to the single discussion about politics. I do Place some significance to politics, because it tends to help describe our moral values and what we find is important in the world. There is a disconnect there, and it troubled me, but not enough to say that it could never work with this girl, but it definitely needed discussing to find a mutual ground and an understanding that we could both be OK with. I think we had done that after our first political discussion, but she was not interested in repeating that same discussion, even if I was suggesting it might be helpful. Of course, it was the middle of the night when this was all coming up. She was not happy, clearly.

 

It’s not like I was picking at the scab over and over. It was only over about a four day period that I was feeling disconnected, and all I really needed was her to turn to me and tell me that it was OK that I was feeling this way and it probably would’ve turned that switch completely off. She had done that before awhile ago when I was feeling disconnected and it worked magic. It shouldn’t be that big of a deal to either one of us to be able to know when our partner needs that from us. Don’t you think? I am hoping it was just her temporary state of mind that was preventing her from doing that, otherwise, it’s going to be a long road back for either one of us.

 

She is definitely keeping me at arms length at this point, but she still reaching out, which I think is good. Of course, during her “separation“ text, she was stating that I was her best friend so she didn’t know what to do… I could take that as either meaning she doesn’t know what to do with the fact that I am her best friend and she’s breaking up, or that she doesn’t know what to do to resolve the entire situation because she and I are best friends. There is a distinct difference. I think it’s the latter, but it’s hard to say, because texting can be some what confusing at times.

 

It’s true I need to distract myself and get on with my own life, with or without her. It’s hard for me to do that, since I have no family anywhere nearby, and many of the things that I like to do are on hold for the holidays. Her and I had plans to spend Some of the holidays together, which is very unsettling at this point.

 

I guess I should mention, that about three weeks ago, we were separated by almost 2 weeks when I went on vacation and then she went on a business trip. Before I left, she was saying that it was going to be a really hard two weeks because she was going to miss me, but as time went on, we seemed to be texting less and less, and it seemed weird. We never really did talk about that, or what that may have meant. Plus, I cracked a silly joke with her by text about halfway through her business trip, which was about four days before we were supposed to see each other, and she said she was really offended by what I said, although it was just a silly joke. I tried to talk with her about it and encouraged her to understand that what I said was not meant to be in poor taste, but she didn’t seem to have much interest in trying to look at it in any different way, she just wanted to drop it, just like our political issues, so I’m not sure we ever really did get to the bottom of it.

 

When we both got back, our first night was with friends, so we didn’t really get much of a chance to talk, and then the second night was a fun night out on the town with kids, but it was fantastic. We were joined by the hip all night. It was the next morning that we had the second of the three political debates, and that was the one that she jumped out of bed and started speaking in a fairly hostile and angry way. I think I was as much taken back by her demeanor as I was what she was saying. That was troubling to me, because I don’t do well with hostility and anger. I’ve had to fight my own demons in that regard, so if it comes out in my significant other, I think we have to talk about it to figure out how to not push those trigger buttons in the future. I said that almost exactly to her that night, but all she heard in response is that she thought I was saying that she was angry and hostile, which was not really what I was trying to say.

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First of all, I have been almost nothing but kind and respectful to this lady.

 

I wasn’t yelling at her, I wasn’t accusing her of anything, I was merely trying to get her to open up the dialogue.

 

I didn’t bring up our arguments or politics the next morning upon leaving, I merely asked her if she had any closing remarks to say before I left, given that in the wee hours of distress, she said she had to rethink our situation. I didn’t harass her, I didn’t put pressure on her, I merely asked her.

 

I hear you, I need to take a chill pill, but I don’t get opportunities like this coming along very often, so it’s important for me to try to play this out properly.

 

I appreciate your response, although your delivery is a little harsh. :)

 

Being “almost” nothing but kind and respectful is not the same as being kind and respectful. Why do it most of the time but sometimes not?

 

You don’t have to yell to be rude. You are overusing the word “merely”

 

You are being passive aggressive with her.

 

Stop trying to be in control. Stop thinking your opinions outweigh hers. Appreciate hers even if you disagree.

Let her be her!!!

I don’t believe she was hostile , angry or mean. I think she was simply or “merely” frustrated.

 

Realise your opinions are just opinions and doesn’t mean they are the right ones.

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Inhale, exhale. The intensity is real, my friend.

 

I see a number of things going on here, but I'll start with what strikes me as the most obvious. The political divide sounds like a very real point of incompatibility between you two. No judgment. I wouldn't describe myself as particularly "political," but I know myself well enough to know that there would be exactly zero chance of me being with someone who was on the opposite end of the spectrum as myself. As you said, it would point toward too many differences in morals and values. Fundamental clashes on those fields do not, generally, make for solid unions. The exception to that rule tends to be when you're dealing with two highly confident and self-possessed individuals with pretty thick skin and a genuine respect for human differences.

 

Which leads to the next point. You strike me as very sensitive, very thin-skinned. Both you, really. I'd imagine that was an early bonding point or sorts, a kind of cultivation of mutual and shared vulnerability, but it's a limited one. It is straight-up exhausting when a small moment of friction leads to talks about feeling "emotionally unsafe," when the slightest pivots in another person are met with "Everything okay?", particularly when those talks are happening at 3 in the morning with someone you've only been with for 4 or 5 months. Go to the living room, do 50 push ups, go back to sleep, you know? Odds are that what felt like a mountain in the twilight hours will be a molehill when the sun rises.

 

Your tone, in these posts, is both stubborn and sensitive, a very tough combination. You have the language of psychology at your fingertips, but it seems your main points of concern are being soothed by others whole also being right. If you can't self-soothe a bit, and let go of the need to be right, you are likely to experience some limitations on the connection front. I'd look at this moment of disconnect as a reminder of that, if also one about a potential incompatibility surfacing at the 5 month mark, as often happens.

 

Moving forward? Think you can just chill? Go to the party, see what's what? The best news in all this is that past the noise you have two people, you and her, who clearly like each other. Lean into all that for a minute, without needing to have all the answers, and you may find the very thing you're seeking—closeness, connection—outside of the pressure cooker.

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I think what you are saying gets to the point of my issue. I wasn’t letting her have her opinion without trying to convince her that my opinion was valid and had merit, as well.

 

My use of the word angry and hostile was only in relation to her responses during our debates. She would raise her voice and make her points with what seemed like anger and hostility, rather than discussing things calmly with an emphasis on trying to understand what each one was saying. That felt dismissive to me, and it didn’t seem like the discussions were unilateral. That was troubling to me, and I think for good reason.

 

I use the words usually and merely to indicate that there is always room for subjective interpretation. I will re-state: I was always kind and respectful to her, as she was to me, other than our political arguments and that one night in the middle of the night.

 

As for that night, I wasn’t hostile or aggressive. I was persistent and I think I was honest with what I thought I needed that night, which was a dialogue to come to an equal footing where we could both feel our needs were being met. She was incapable of doing that, partly because of the time of day and stress, and partly because she really likely had no interest in doing so. I don’t think where she is in her head permitted her to feel open and vulnerable to that kind of discussion. That being said, I felt like I was being rejected and dismissed, and that felt very threatening to me as well. I have to work on that. I didn’t respect that she was telling me it was late and she didn’t wanna talk about it. It seemed like a copout at the time, but given the stress that she is under, it’s really understandable. I was just in capable in my own head of letting it go until it felt resolved. You know what they say, you should never go to bed angry at the ones you love.

 

I have been thinking about all of these responses and to others I have talked with about this. Part of me wonders if this really is the right situation for me.

 

I’m not even entirely sure that I should go to her party tomorrow. It almost feels like I’m being played a little bit… Meaning that she is using me as a pawn in her game of control. It was clear, and has been clear, that she isn’t able to control me in the way I think she is used to, and I think that is troubling to her. She does have a little bit of an ego and a complex, and I suspect she needs to be in control of whoever she is with. I am not that person. I’m fairly independent minded and resourceful in those matters, and I don’t think that was easy for her to manage. So, when we talked about politics, she wasn’t winning the calm and collected debate, so she resorted to loud and nasty argument, which wasn’t working for me.

 

As for her not being hostile but being frustrated… Maybe she was. She would make a political point, and I would offer an alternative theory to what she was saying, which was often based on fact, and she didn’t want to hear it.

 

And so it goes.

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It’s not like I was picking at the scab over and over. It was only over about a four day period that I was feeling disconnected, and all I really needed was her to turn to me and tell me that it was OK that I was feeling this way and it probably would’ve turned that switch completely off. She had done that before awhile ago when I was feeling disconnected and it worked magic. It shouldn’t be that big of a deal to either one of us to be able to know when our partner needs that from us. Don’t you think? I am hoping it was just her temporary state of mind that was preventing her from doing that, otherwise, it’s going to be a long road back for either of us

 

Picking at a scab for 4 days!!! Is 3.9 days too many!!

And here you are saying it was “only” 4 days. ???

 

And all you apparently needed was for her to say it’s ok that you were feeling that way. She did!!!! She said she is not interested in politics getting in the way of a relationship. Unfortunately what she didn’t know was that you will let politics get in the way!

 

You are hoping it’s HER “temporary state of mind” ???

 

How about altering your mindset that appears to be very controlling?

 

It’s the honeymoon phase and you are poking her in the middle of the night with your index finger instead of your middle stick?

I don’t think she is enjoying this relationship.

And I don’t think she is behaving the way you want her to. She has too many opinions for your liking.

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Inhale, exhale. The intensity is real, my friend.

 

I see a number of things going on here, but I'll start with what strikes me as the most obvious. The political divide sounds like a very real point of incompatibility between you two. No judgment. I wouldn't describe myself as particularly "political," but I know myself well enough to know that there would be exactly zero chance of me being with someone who was on the opposite end of the spectrum as myself. As you said, it would point toward too many differences in morals and values. Fundamental clashes on those fields do not, generally, make for solid unions. The exception to that rule tends to be when you're dealing with two highly confident and self-possessed individuals with pretty thick skin and a genuine respect for human differences.

 

Which leads to the next point. You strike me as very sensitive, very thin-skinned. Both you, really. I'd imagine that was an early bonding point or sorts, a kind of cultivation of mutual and shared vulnerability, but it's a limited one. It is straight-up exhausting when a small moment of friction leads to talks about feeling "emotionally unsafe," when the slightest pivots in another person are met with "Everything okay?", particularly when those talks are happening at 3 in the morning with someone you've only been with for 4 or 5 months. Go to the living room, do 50 push ups, go back to sleep, you know? Odds are that what felt like a mountain in the twilight hours will be a molehill when the sun rises.

 

Your tone, in these posts, is both stubborn and sensitive, a very tough combination. You have the language of psychology at your fingertips, but it seems your main points of concern are being soothed by others whole also being right. If you can't self-soothe a bit, and let go of the need to be right, you are likely to experience some limitations on the connection front. I'd look at this moment of disconnect as a reminder of that, if also one about a potential incompatibility surfacing at the 5 month mark, as often happens.

 

Moving forward? Think you can just chill? Go to the party, see what's what? The best news in all this is that past the noise you have two people, you and her, who clearly like each other. Lean into all that for a minute, without needing to have all the answers, and you may find the very thing you're seeking—closeness, connection—outside of the pressure cooker.

 

Thank you, you are brilliant. Who are you and what is your background? I have only been on here for less than 24 hours and have been very impressed with the magnitude and depth of your responses. Thank you for that!

 

Almost everything you said is so clearly true. Stubbornness and thin skinned… Likely a tough combination.

 

I am getting better at not making mountains out of mole hills, and that’s why I was able to, for the most part, tolerate when we disagreed about politics. It was really the manner of disagreement that I was having the most trouble with… Angst and anger. Those trigger responses from me that go way back, likely from past traumas. My thought was that if I could encourage her to use different strategies of conveying an argument, it wouldn’t push those buttons. She was in capable of hearing that, particularly at that point of the day.

 

I do put a lot of energy into this situation. I don’t get a lot of opportunities, so I guess I am fighting for this one, but the fight turns into pressure. On the other hand, I put zero pressure on this girl at all for anything, minus when she was upset with me about when I was kidding with her by text and she was offended with my humor, which I don’t think she understood properly by context. She didn’t wanna talk about to come to a greater understanding of it, so I had to suck it up. That’s kind of bull, really.

 

Our whole situation was light and easy and beautiful, until recently. It may have had little to do with me, and more of the stress level that she is under at home and at work. It was clear she was always under stress.

 

I am not sure I am giving up much hope for the situation, quite truthfully. I think the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. I do really like this girl, but if she disappeared for a day and a half when she didn’t like my joke, and she is now disappearing at the holidays because I was pressuring her to come to the bargaining table, then that probably doesn’t make for a very solid platform.

 

I’m having second thoughts about going to the party, as well. As many have said in other posts, if she put on the brakes, maybe I should respect those brakes and tell her that if she ever wants to get together and talk to let me know. Life and relationships can’t all be fun and Rosy. Right now ours is not Rosy. Part of me thinks she either needs to be brave enough to come to the table, or expect that I am not going to stick around. I go from pole to pole with these thoughts, if you can’t tell… :-)

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Picking at a scab for 4 days!!! Is 3.9 days too many!!

And here you are saying it was “only” 4 days. ???

 

And all you apparently needed was for her to say it’s ok that you were feeling that way. She did!!!! She said she is not interested in politics getting in the way of a relationship. Unfortunately what she didn’t know was that you will let politics get in the way!

 

You are hoping it’s HER “temporary state of mind” ???

 

How about altering your mindset that appears to be very controlling?

 

It’s the honeymoon phase and you are poking her in the middle of the night with your index finger instead of your middle stick?

I don’t think she is enjoying this relationship.

And I don’t think she is behaving the way you want her to. She has too many opinions for your liking.

 

Billy, I don’t think I am controlling at all. If anything, I think I am way too passive and sensitive. I think she is the one that wants to be controlling, and it just doesn’t work for me. I don’t mean that to be insensitive, I just get the gut feeling that’s the way it is.

 

People often say that they feel certain things, but aren’t always able to articulate if they are feeling something differently. I had no way of knowing during that four day period of time what she was thinking, since we didn’t really talk about it at length. We were only having short phone conversations and texting back-and-forth. That’s not a good way to convey what’s going on with someone.

 

People should know that if you discuss politics, that each side is likely going to try to convince the other side that what they are saying is true and accurate. I don’t think this was any different with our conversations. It was her that started to get heated and animated. That usually indicates some sort of divide between the parties. My interest was just to ensure that there was no permanent divide. I don’t think that’s controlling.

 

Also,

 

Our interactions had been changing over about the last month. We have been texting less during the day, her text had a lot less heart emoticons and stuff of that lovey-dovey nature. I was trying very hard to see that as a natural progression of our friendship, but there was still part of me that was wondering if something was going on with her that was lurking just below the surface that she wasn’t able to articulate. That may be a bigger part of why I started to feel a little less secure with her. She wasn’t giving me any verbal reason to believe that, and when I saw her, she was always as nurturing and loving as usual, but I see these things and think about them, and wonder if they mean that something is changing. Then I wanna talk about it. I think we only had conversations like that once or twice, and she was always very happy to put things into perspective.

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I suspect that most women don't see the attraction in a snowflake. Sorry, but that is how I would view you after taking something so not personal, so personal. You, of course, are entitlled to your feelings but to get that upset over a political conversation is, IMO a tad over-the-top. Most political and religious arguments are passionate which of course can come across as hostile... the key is to not take the heated moment so personal and to be able to get over that moment as soon as the moment is over.

 

So: Buck up buttercup and do your best to learn how to duck with the punches so to speak. Now, if this "discussion into the wee hours of the morning" was of a more personal and direct insulting to you, I could see how you would feel "unsafe emotionally." Did she call you a card carrying *&^%@!* for your political view?

 

If you can't learn to take those passionate discussions about nothing to do with you personally, then I say there is absolutely no sense the two of you carrying on any further.

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It almost feels like I’m being played a little bit… Meaning that she is using me as a pawn in her game of control. It was clear, and has been clear, that she isn’t able to control me in the way I think she is used to, and I think that is troubling to her. She does have a little bit of an ego and a complex, and I suspect she needs to be in control of whoever she is with. I am not that person. I’m fairly independent minded and resourceful in those matters, and I don’t think that was easy for her to manage.

 

I'm just going to call this like I see it, which is that I could see her saying the very things about you. Honestly, I think you're projecting a bit and that some humility would go a long way. Takes a real ego to write the above.

 

Sounds to me like you take great pride in your ability to be calm, rational, level-headed, creating "dialogues" that unspool in whispery, NPR-like cadences. Thing is? When you are exercising these skills in unreasonable settings it can become whacky, and when you are using this sort of language to fundamentally describe being annoyed with someone for not submitting to your viewpoint, or behaving in exactly the way you deem appropriate, it becomes a passive-aggressive form of control, a display of disrespect, and a wounded ego hiding out in a mask of woke-ness.

 

It's like you're turning up the volume, slowly, and then getting frustrated when she has to shout to be heard.

 

We all have pasts, baggage, triggers, and so on. The trick is to keep it in the can, so to speak, to not make them the most interesting thing on the planet, so we don't turn new people, and new connections, into stages on which to reenact past experiences with the hopes of getting different results, different endings. People are just people, after all. They are not characters in our stories, not vessels to atone for the past or validate our self-work. Try to turn them into that and they will snarl a bit, and bite back. Make everything about their personhood a verdict on you and you're just being rude and touchy, no matter how calm you are on the exterior.

 

Generous read here? You guys are both skittish, thin-skinned, two chemical compounds that made for a blast of good chemistry that has now given way to some weird bubbling in the beakers, some cracked glass in the laboratory. That's all romantic connection is: a chemistry experiment between two people, not a psychological one. A truly independent and resourceful person understands this, rather than seeing another person's humanity as a threat.

 

A few cents, to spend how you see fit.

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I suspect that most women don't see the attraction in a snowflake. Sorry, but that is how I would view you after taking something so not personal, so personal. You, of course, are entitlled to your feelings but to get that upset over a political conversation is, IMO a tad over-the-top. Most political and religious arguments are passionate which of course can come across as hostile... the key is to not take the heated moment so personal and to be able to get over that moment as soon as the moment is over.

 

So: Buck up buttercup and do your best to learn how to duck with the punches so to speak. Now, if this "discussion into the wee hours of the morning" was of a more personal and direct insulting to you, I could see how you would feel "unsafe emotionally." Did she call you a card carrying *&^%@!* for your political view?

 

If you can't learn to take those passionate discussions about nothing to do with you personally, then I say there is absolutely no sense the two of you carrying on any further.

 

I may be a snowflake, but that comes from a history and a story. You can’t possibly understand, or should make judgment, about someone until you have walked in their shoes. You don’t know my history and you don’t know the experiences that I have encountered, therefore, labeling me a snowflake is not productive. We both have a trauma history, and that multiplies sensitivities in ways that many people cannot fathom.

 

As for political discussions, they can often illuminate differences that can be troubling between two parties. Maybe that’s what was over the top for me. I was seeing something that I didn’t care to see, and it was being conveyed in a way that I didn’t care for it to be conveyed. Maybe my sensitivity over that is just me not being willing to admit that it could be a chasm that can’t be overcome. Or, maybe I was concerned she was going to see it that way. I had no way of knowing whether she was thinking about it or not. She was bewildered why I would not trust her response to my early text as to whether or not she was concerned about our political discussion. Trust is not an easy thing for some people to manage, given their own background and history. On the other hand, I would not be hugely concerned if someone had a hard time trusting something that I said. I would just re-iterate it, shrug it off, give them a hug, and tell them to stop thinking about it.

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Wow… That is a lot to chew on.

 

I think you are somewhat harsh in some of your analysis, but there may be some truth in some of it.

 

I do try hard to be calm and rational, and I think that’s an asset in most situations. I don’t think I wrote, necessarily, with ego when I said that there may be control issues going on with her. I saw evidence of it, and it showed patterns that she likes to be motherly and be the one orchestrating what happens. That’s what she does with her family and I likely do in mine. That didn’t work well for me.

 

I don’t know why it’s ego to be able to step back and see what could actually be happening… When someone gets into a relationship and they want to assume a role that they are comfortable with, which in her case may have been to manage the emotional and physical aspects of the relationship, only to find that their partner does that themselves, anyway, and doesn’t do well with that kind of scenario. That’s all I was trying to say.

 

Yes, I am skittish and thin skinned. I think I have a reason and a right to feel that way. As I said in the previous post, you can’t really tell why someone is the way they are until you walk in their shoes.

 

I’m not entirely sure what your point was about two people being part of a chemistry experiment, but not as a humanity threat. Being partnered with someone is a generous portion of each one of those characteristics. Chemistry is the physical part, and psychology is the emotional part. You can’t really expect to ignore either one of those aspects and survive in close comfort.

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I may be a snowflake, but that comes from a history and a story. You can’t possibly understand, or should make judgment, about someone until you have walked in their shoes.
I'm just saying, I'm not judging. Most women do not find snowflakes attractive.

 

You don’t know my history and you don’t know the experiences that I have encountered, therefore, labeling me a snowflake is not productive.
Regardless of your background or your foreground for that matter, most women do not find someone who is that emotional about non personal things to be attractive. It is what it is so try your best not to take it personal but rather look at it pragmatically and perhaps you'll see why she acted as she did and is now questioning the relationship. I'm not here to judge you and I haven't, I'm just giving you a point to consider. If you don't want to contemplate that point, then that is certainly your right.

 

We both have a trauma history, and that multiplies sensitivities in ways that many people cannot fathom.
I only see you being (IMO) overly sensitive to this feud. She was just getting defensive because you weren't understanding that her opinion wasn't really a reason to take if so personally... at least that's how it reads to me.

 

As for political discussions, they can often illuminate differences that can be troubling between two parties.
Yes. But you haven't seen that as a reason to stop seeing her and instead want to ignore the red flag and try and get back this connection you feel is lost. She on the other hand is viewing it as the red flag that it is (your reaction is actually the red flag.. not the difference in opinion)

 

 

Maybe that’s what was over the top for me. I was seeing something that I didn’t care to see, and it was being conveyed in a way that I didn’t care for it to be conveyed.
Then why are you trying to salvage a relationship that appears to go against your very sensibilities? That is the question you need to ask yourself because "love" is never enough to keep a relationship together in a happy, healthy functioning manner that will last a lifetime

 

 

.Maybe my sensitivity over that is just me not being willing to admit that it could be a chasm that can’t be overcome. Or, maybe I was concerned she was going to see it that way. I had no way of knowing whether she was thinking about it or not.
She told you she needed to think about it. You have to learn to allow her to do just that and if she's not coming around to any conclusion after a time then it's up to you to end it because clearly she's not ready to let things proceed.

 

She was bewildered why I would not trust her response to my early text as to whether or not she was concerned about our political discussion.
I am bewildered why you didn't as well. Trust is very important in a relationship and you showed her that you don't trust her word.

 

Trust is not an easy thing for some people to manage, given their own background and history.
Are you or have you worked on that issue with a trained psychologist? If not, you would feel a lot better in every relationship (not just romantic ones) if you were able to come to terms and pack away your past. (not saying it will/would be easy, just saying)

 

On the other hand, I would not be hugely concerned if someone had a hard time trusting something that I said. I would just re-iterate it, shrug it off, give them a hug, and tell them to stop thinking about it.

That is you, it isn't her though. We all handle things differently. Her way may be just to take things at face value. If you don't like that, then that would be another show of an incompatible coupling.

 

 

On a side note: One wonders how Kelly Ann Conway and her hubby manage to keep it together (so far, anyway).

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I'm all for political and logical debates with my partner and I got exhausted just reading your posts. Not everybody has appetite for this much analytics in a relationship, let alone in the middle of the night. She doesn't sound like a lady who enjoys it, so take her words for it and leave her alone. It doesn't add up when you label her as "angry and hostile," "mean," "controlling," "incapable of this and that, such as appreciating your crude joke," yet still want to be with her. If you could be honest and tell her how you think of her, I bet you wouldn't need to worry about going to her party and being played as her pawn or not.

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It was an invitation, an olive branch sort of. Go if you want to. Why not stop debating politics? Take a 'to each their own' approach. A tug-of-war takes two. Stop going below the belt with character assignations about her being "angry and hostile". Stop arguing before you feel the urge to attack her like that. Keep things civil.

W her party was tomorrow and that my daughter and I can come if we want.
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When she told you everything was okay, you should not have brought it up again. Then, you pushed, and pushed and pushed. I do not have an abusive relationship background and you would have made me nuts. Then she confirms that you are welcome at the party and you are dissecting that. This is not about her, but your behavior. You really need to chill. The over thinking and interrogation methods are really annoying. Stop!

 

"try to check in with her regarding what her comfort level is and what she expects for her and I over the next little while?" NO! Just go!

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Picking at a scab for 4 days!!! Is 3.9 days too many!!

And here you are saying it was “only” 4 days. ???

 

And all you apparently needed was for her to say it’s ok that you were feeling that way. She did!!!! She said she is not interested in politics getting in the way of a relationship. Unfortunately what she didn’t know was that you will let politics get in the way!

 

You are hoping it’s HER “temporary state of mind” ???

 

How about altering your mindset that appears to be very controlling?

 

It’s the honeymoon phase and you are poking her in the middle of the night with your index finger instead of your middle stick?

I don’t think she is enjoying this relationship.

And I don’t think she is behaving the way you want her to. She has too many opinions for your liking.

 

I agree.......

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I think you should go this party and try to enjoy it. I bet you will have an amazing time and before you know it, you will be right back on tracks.

Sometimes relationship goes very smooth and one missunderstanding shows a different side of each other. Sometimes this may seem like you don't know the person you are with. The reaction and responses of each party may appear overwhelming.

I would encourage you to overcome this. You were slightly concerned when you were not sure what she thinks , when she created a distance. Than as soon as she stated such debates will not get in a way of relationship, you got more confident and even consider not to go the party. Just a moment ago, you were wondering if you are still invited....as soon as you realised you are still good, you considered to take a step back.

Don't sabotage this relationship. If it is a good thing - enjoy it ! Focus on the beautiful parts of the relationship. In our age (40-50) we are set in a certain way ...it takes time to learn other person ways. Give this relationship a chance.

I know I always compare others situations to mine, but some time ago, me and my bf had missunderstanding. He refused to see my point of view. He was stubborn. Me too. We than tried to have a dinner and I felt the disconnect you did. Then it was me who in the middle of the night brought up the subject as I was unsettled. He jumped out of bed and screamed at me. He spent the rest of the night in another room. I left in the morning while he was asleep.

I didn't see him since. He sent me text to say he couldn't understand what happened to me.

A few days after that I apologised. Blamed on enormous stress caused by dad' gravely illness.

He said he understood but it is best to end relationship.

I was gutted. I think we both were wrong in this situation. But he ended so I respected. I am fine now.

It's sad when things crumble over things that could be resolved so easily. Today I see this. Back than I didn't.

I guess you can't be wrong and strong at the same time as they say....

Please go this party ! It will be fantastic ! I am sure over time you will learn to debate softer ....

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I think you should go this party and try to enjoy it. I bet you will have an amazing time and before you know it, you will be right back on tracks.

Sometimes relationship goes very smooth and one missunderstanding shows a different side of each other. Sometimes this may seem like you don't know the person you are with. The reaction and responses of each party may appear overwhelming.

I would encourage you to overcome this. You were slightly concerned when you were not sure what she thinks , when she created a distance. Than as soon as she stated such debates will not get in a way of relationship, you got more confident and even consider not to go the party. Just a moment ago, you were wondering if you are still invited....as soon as you realised you are still good, you considered to take a step back.

Don't sabotage this relationship. If it is a good thing - enjoy it ! Focus on the beautiful parts of the relationship. In our age (40-50) we are set in a certain way ...it takes time to learn other person ways. Give this relationship a chance.

I know I always compare others situations to mine, but some time ago, me and my bf had missunderstanding. He refused to see my point of view. He was stubborn. Me too. We than tried to have a dinner and I felt the disconnect you did. Then it was me who in the middle of the night brought up the subject as I was unsettled. He jumped out of bed and screamed at me. He spent the rest of the night in another room. I left in the morning while he was asleep.

I didn't see him since. He sent me text to say he couldn't understand what happened to me.

A few days after that I apologised. Blamed on enormous stress caused by dad' gravely illness.

He said he understood but it is best to end relationship.

I was gutted. I think we both were wrong in this situation. But he ended so I respected. I am fine now.

It's sad when things crumble over things that could be resolved so easily. Today I see this. Back than I didn't.

I guess you can't be wrong and strong at the same time as they say....

Please go this party ! It will be fantastic ! I am sure over time you will learn to debate softer ....

 

Thank you, Irka, I enjoyed your correspondence. I like your style. I have enjoyed the other correspondences, too, but some of them are quite critical.

 

I am really sorry that your BF bolted like that. That seems very strange. Why would he not try to understand what you were experiencing, and perhaps be sensitive to your needs?

 

Did he tell you exactly what it was that he objected to and why he left? What did you think about what he told you?

 

Yes, I am in crisis mode, and yes there’s all kinds of things I can and should and will be doing about it. I also think there are a lot of people that made a lot of conjectures about what I did and didn’t do or what she did and didn’t do. It was really only that one particular time in the middle of the night that I poked her and wanted to tell her how I was feeling. I wasn’t going on and on about this for the four days in between. It was just a bit on my mind and I was wondering…

 

Yes, my brain is whirling at this point… And spinning… That doesn’t mean that my brain always spends like this and it doesn’t mean that my brain was always spinning prior to this nighttime conversation. It was definitely spinning then, which it can do. I tried to let it go, and I just couldn’t sleep. Who knows whether it’s a chemical imbalance inside my brain… Hard to say.

 

I am expecting to go to the party, but I will be anxious. I won’t really know what to expect, but I’m getting better as I get older at just going and trying to have some fun. I’m still not holding a lot of hope for this situation, but it’s really up to her. She has reached out over the last four days, although sporadically, and she’s not giving me a lot to hold my hat on, but the fact that she’s reaching out I should see is a positive sign. Who knows, maybe it’s just the friendship she is trying to preserve and that is why her correspondences are void of anything really personal. The first day she checked back in After or our ordeal, she was much more connected and sweet, as if she didn’t want to let me go. It’s been a little more hands off since.

 

Contrary to what many are saying, I have been pretty good over the course of our time knowing each other at just letting it be the beautiful thing that it is. That would’ve been much harder many years ago. I probably would’ve sabotaged long before this.

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OK… Here’s another follow up:

 

My lady friend works so much that we did not have tons of time to actually be able to spend together. That was a bit problematic. Many times, she would come over fairly late at night, and the only time we had to spend was in the morning hours before she had to leave to go to work. That was OK, but it didn’t leave us a lot of time to start generating memories and bonding over larger scale plans. This scenario did leave me alone much of the time with my thoughts and anxieties, which is a good part of how I got myself into trouble in the situation.

 

So, right now, I am starting to think about how I am going to manage this situation after the party tomorrow… I have no doubt that we will be glad to see each other, although I don’t know how responsive she will be during the actual party. I will likely be floating around by myself with my kid and just mingling while she does hostess duties.

 

How should I manage moving forward after that? I will be away for the entire week between Christmas and New Year’s, which may be a good thing to allow both of us to go to our corners. However, with our trips back at Thanksgiving, being away seem to be more detrimental than an asset. At least for her. I know that seeing my family often grounds me quite a bit and I will be with them throughout the entire holidays.

 

My lady friend had said to me earlier that she had planned on spending Christmas with me, since she knew I would be entirely alone, because my kid would be with her mother. I suspect, I will be alone on Christmas, as I usually have been, since I bet my lady friend will not come over after all. That’s a bummer. Is it too pushy to invite her over for at least some part of Christmas Eve or Christmas day? Should I allow her to ask me about it first?

 

Historically, when we have been apart, I have always sent pictures of interesting things and places that I have been along my travels. Does it seem like too much to continue doing that over this holiday?

 

How would you guys handle the post-Christmas party, and holiday week, and even there after? Periodic texts? Back right off and let her come to me?

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