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Thread: Scared of messing up... I've become a nervous teen again. *sigh*

  1. #31
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ninjabib
    She works doesn't she? Jane I mean. She ca find somewhere to rent surely? She doesn't have to stay in your house. She must have money she's coming on a 3 week trip. Somethings not adding up here.
    She has a reasonable income, but also quite a lot of expenses, including paying the entirety of the mortgage on her family home, which her Mum and two sisters live in, a house she is not welcome in because her eldest sister thinks that she betrayed the family or some stupid nonsense. Actually her eldest sister has fallen out with everybody and wants everybody to get out of "her" house, Jane, her own mother and her youngest sister included. Yes, it is f'ed up.

    The obvious solution is for the eldest sister to move out somewhere herself, maybe for Jane and her eldest sister to buy out her share of their family home. That will take time... hence my generous deadline for her to move out. But my patience is being sorely tested here, in part because she is still in denial about the breakup.

  2. #32
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Update on original topic

    I've had a hectic week, in part due to Jane's arrival from the UK, hence did not reply to questions or make any updates on the Lily situation until now.

    In the end we settled on a late showing (10pm) of a movie that she picked and picked a theatre near her place at a mall which has plenty of places to go for dinner beforehand.

    I am going in fairly open minded about what to expect...

    The good news is that she seems happy to spend another Friday evening with just me, this time at a place close enough to where she lives that she could easily have invited her other friends, including her housemate, who happens to be my friend from university. In fact, the fact that I did not invite my friend despite going so close to their apartment (over an hour away from mine) should make my intentions pretty clear. In that context, her acceptance of the arrangement for tonight is encouraging. Without literally labeling it a date in advance, this seems as close to a date as can be. (Unlike last Friday, where it could have been framed as her traveling to meet me to attend an event near me, hence I just called it a "psuedo-date")

    The bad news is that she has called me a "friend" and is eager to pay for stuff when with me. For context, we speak Chinese to each other and she is Chinese, so I don't consider it as discouraging to get labelled a "friend" as I would in the Western context... But the fact that she insisted on paying for dinner last Friday (to "thank me for taking care of her and taking her to the event") and also offering to pay for other stuff for tonight... is a concern, because in my experience, Chinese girls expect boyfriends to pay for things for them, so the fact that she is always offering to pay suggests that she does not want to feel like she owes me anything, and wants to keep things balanced, as opposed to the typical Chinese suitor-girl relationship.

    Anyway, I'm not quite as nervous/scared as I was when I made my OP, though I suspect it might come back as I get closer to meeting her. I am planning to bring some flowers to make my intentions clear from the beginning. I don't mean I want her to make a decision about being my girlfriend or what not, I am just a bit concerned about slipping into the friendzone, so I want to be clearer about my feelings.

  3. #33
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    I have no experience with Asian women so cannot comment but making your intentions clear is all you can do. Not verbally but through body language and flirting etc and se how she reacts. If she's not reciprocating then you know it's game over.

  4. #34
    Platinum Member boltnrun's Avatar
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    I would offer to pay because I didn't want the man to think I was "using" him for money or a free meal. I wanted to be a "catch" rather than a burden.

    Have you spent one on one time with "Jane" since her arrival?

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  6. #35
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    I would offer to pay because I didn't want the man to think I was "using" him for money or a free meal. I wanted to be a "catch" rather than a burden.

    Have you spent one on one time with "Jane" since her arrival?
    I have no experience with Asian women so cannot comment but making your intentions clear is all you can do. Not verbally but through body language and flirting etc and se how she reacts. If she's not reciprocating then you know it's game over.
    @boltnrun @ninjabib

    A quick update on the date... Overall I had a really nice time and things went pretty well. She went early (I wasn't late!) to secure a table at a restaurant she picked because there is normally a queue. Dinner was lovely, and then we went for a walk and a bubble tea at the nice mall we were at before finding a quiet corner to have a proper chat before the movie. After the movie, I walked her back to the corner of her apartment, where she waited until my taxi arrived before heading off.

    The good news:
    • She liked the flowers I got her.
    • She said she would be happy to get to know me better and "give it a chance".
    • The conversation flowed pretty well all night. I'm glad that for the most part, my nerves did not get in the way.
    • We arranged to meet for dinner today after her language class near-ish to my place.


    The bad news:
    • She paid for dinner again! She's too damned quick and paid for it on the same app that we ordered from. (At least I got the cinema tickets and bubble tea).
    • She comes from a pretty rich family, her ex-BF was also rich. So although she does not exude any sense of superiority or privilege, and says that she does not care about money, I'm not sure that if it came down to it, she will actually be okay with a lower standard of living than what she has been used to.


    As for Jane...

    I spent some time with her yesterday and helped her set up some local e-payment stuff and showed her how to use the subway. So, she should be able to find her way around the city by herself now. In fact she is out exploring by herself today... so hopefully she won't be totally miserable if I don't see her very much during her stay.

  7. #36
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    I don't love the "give it a chance" - that's how my son talks about my "no thank you bite" rule about trying vegetables. Also - awesome for her to come from a rich family -is she financially stable/independent in her own right? Why would she have to lower her standard of living - does she want the standard of living her mom and dad have?

  8. #37
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I don't love the "give it a chance" - that's how my son talks about my "no thank you bite" rule about trying vegetables. Also - awesome for her to come from a rich family -is she financially stable/independent in her own right? Why would she have to lower her standard of living - does she want the standard of living her mom and dad have?
    "Give it a chance" was translation from Chinese, I did not read anything negative into it. In the context of me making it clear that I wanted more than just a friendship with her, I read that as an invitation to keep getting to know her better in that new context.

    We spent nearly 7hrs together this afternoon/evening... managed to talk a lot more than in our previous meetings, covering much more depth and breadth of topics. She is even richer than I knew... as in has two properties in her name and a trust fund kind of rich. Her lifestyle costs more than she can earn herself, but her father and brother are successful businessmen, so she says that she does not expect a boyfriend to help maintain her lifestyle.

    I do feel that there is a contradiction between her idealism about finding true love (absent of monetary considerations) and the reality that she does not earn enough to support herself financially through her own earnings. I suppose if she is rich enough to maintain her lifestyle off just her existing savings/investments, then maybe she can be considered financially independent, in a way? I cannot really relate to that level of wealth though.

    We had a really nice time today... but I think the economic imbalance will probably be a bigger problem than she realizes at present... I am certainly not going to pin too much hope on this for now.

  9. #38
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    So of course she can be financially independent with a trust fund but I would prefer a partner who was also able to earn a living -what does she do for work?What are her career goals as far as increasing her earning power? Does she want to be home full time raising a child? Is she educated and do you care about that?

  10. #39
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    So of course she can be financially independent with a trust fund but I would prefer a partner who was also able to earn a living -what does she do for work?What are her career goals as far as increasing her earning power? Does she want to be home full time raising a child? Is she educated and do you care about that?
    She is educated, got a Masters Degree in Chinese from a decent Chinese University. She worked at a government job (HR-related) in China until 6 months ago, when she came to Singapore to learn English and prepare for another Masters Degree in the UK.

    Her goals are fairly fluid. She has mentioned wanting to run a school teaching Chinese as a foreign language for foreigners, or going into business herself. She has already rejected the government career that her father had laid out for her.

    Despite being 28 years old, an age where most Chinese women are quite anxious to get married and start families, Lily still comes off quite immature. She has lived in a privileged bubble all her life, and can be quite out of touch with the struggles of most people, because she has never really had to worry about earning enough to maintain her lifestyle, which although not extravagant, would be considered a luxury for most middle class people in the West, let alone China.

    To put it in context, I have a reasonable middle class income for Singapore, but I live quite frugally because I service a mortgage back home and I am trying to save for some stuff... she spends pretty much my entire monthly salary on just shopping, restaurants and travel (taxi/uber everywhere) and she says things like, "It's not that I am unwilling to take the subway, I just think that for a long journey, it is too tiring"... without realizing that for the vast majority of people, the taxi-subway decision is a cost-benefit analysis that she does not even need to consider.

    So, yeah... I do like her a lot, she has the innocence and kindness that only a life wrapped in cotton wool could afford to maintain, but in the cold light of day, I fear that we do not belong in the same worlds, and the practical differences in our lifestyle would get in the way sooner or later. I am not giving up it completely, but definitely tempering my expectations.

  11. #40
    Platinum Member boltnrun's Avatar
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    So, let's say you do get serious with Lily or someone else.

    Wouldn't it be tricky to explain you're paying a mortgage on a house that your ex is living in (I presume rent-free)? Any headway with getting her to move out or is she still saying she can't live in the home she pays for? (Strange that both of you are paying the mortgage for homes someone else is living in...)

    Side note, are you spending time with Jane while she's visiting?

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