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HECK of a saga, and im feeling more and more ready pull the trigger on divorce..


a_lifters_life

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Many of your already know my story, but for those unfamiliar here is a quick run down: my wife of (~3 years) and together for ~13 years. We now have a 6 month old child we'll refer to as T going forward.

 

I have many posts from around when we got married ~3 years ago - with me in a very conflicted state : sort of like how I am now (just now in much more worse).

 

Anywho, my wife and I were finally able to conceive T ~6 months ago. It was a really tough situation for us - we tried naturally for 2 years without any success, so we went the iui route.

 

We now have a 6 month old - who is the joy of our worlds.

 

Anywho ever since my wife gave birth to T - she has completely sidelined me, ran away a lot of the summer (shes a teacher - with 3 months off), and has completely disregarded us or our marriage.

 

I mean T is an awesome addition to our lives, he really is awesome!!!!

 

My wife has constantly put me down over the past 6 months - innocuous, very knit picky things: oh T's diaper is low (early on in his life) , etc. Not just that, but she has constantly sided with her family on everything.

 

Prior to T - we had a lot of fun together - going to places, going out to eat, and just enjoying each other.

 

Nowadays (the past 6 months) : she wont let my parents watch T ever - they've seen him for 1-3 hours literally a half dozen times over the past 6 months - so we dont get a chance to ever redevelop that chemistry with each other.

 

She is downright NEUROTIC about anything and everything with T and puts me, and my family down constantly - but sees no problem with herself or her family: they do everything perfect and know everything about babies (supposedly ? lol) - the truth: this isnt true.

 

I personally feel like I've hit my limit with her, and having T be around us under the same roof is only detrimental to his development - when she snarks about innocuous things going on or so she perceives that.

 

What types of things should a guy in a situation like I'm in do?

 

I've began to pull away from her - all communication with her is brief.

 

We currently cook separate dinners, but eat at the same kitchen table, and for the past 4 weeks especially sit there and eat, but not a single word is mentioned (this is all after T is sleeping)

Occasionally have spats at night about things dealing with T, or her family, or my family.

We probably havent had sex in...... 2 years?

We dont kiss ever

We rarely hug

She never appreciates what I do for her, or T.

She treats me like a constant doormat - ESPECIALLY the past 6 months. I cant do anything right, no matter how hard I try.

Her family completely disrespected me 10 days into being a father with totally outright and ridiculous comments. This resulted in me kicking them out of my house. This appears to be a kindling to fueling A LOT of current problems we're having. I apologized for maybe going a bit overboard with my anger towards them, to which they never responded to it (sent a text). What makes matters worse is - my wife backs them to no end, and YOU guessed it sees no fault with what they tried to pull on me, in my house house, 10 days into being a father. In fact she sees them as 'justified' in what they did.

 

We've gone to some couples counseling for like a month now, and seperate individual counseling for ~2 months.

 

So far we havent fixed anything in my opinion, despite bringing up these concerns (and many others) - nothing ever changes .

 

Bottom line: I think I stayed SO long with her because we had a great relationship, until T, and she went off the deep end with being neurotic to me, overly obsessive over _every_ single thing dealing with T, and backing her parents even if they try to put down me, my character, while being only 10 days into being a brand new father. I feel like there hasnt been anything between us for ~2 years: especially physical. The past 6 months there has been nothing physical, or mental between us. There's nothing left.

 

Sorry for the long, and less organized post. I just had to get a bunch off my chest, and wanted to hear your opinions of this all, and your own experiences in divorce.

 

Thanks

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Congrats on the baby!

 

OP, you have been having issues with this woman for years, not just 6. months. The family has always been an issue, and your partner has not supported you. Nothing will change. The counselling is not helping and and she is worse. Don't you think it is time to seek out a divorce attorney?

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My wife has constantly put me down over the past 6 months - innocuous, very knit picky things: oh T's diaper is low (early on in his life) , etc. Not just that, but she has constantly sided with her family on everything.

 

That's a fact, not a dig. I said "his diaper looks low" about my nephew my thought is that he has a full diaper, not that its a reflection on anyone else. By your past threads, its not just her - you are very combative about everything and even was upset she accepted baby clothes from a coworker. You flipped out about it. I suggest you go to personal counseling if you are only going to couples counseling. You need to coparent with her if you leave her, or maybe you can even work things out, but not with a chip on your shoulder. Dude, if your relationship was fine until the baby came - you have a new baby - grow up and don't walk out on him. Try to not take every little comment as a slight to your ego.

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Change is hard and bringing a life into the world is as transformative as it gets. The relationship between my children’s mother and I was stressed and fragile for the first couple years of both my kid’s lives...

 

Kudos for giving counseling a try but perhaps you’re ready to bail out on it prematurely? You mentioned some fairly complex and deep seated issues in your post...the process to uncover and apply the antidotes to the root causes of those issues is likely going to take longer than a month.

 

Bro, I can absolutely see that you feel like you’re at your wits end and I understand. That said, my opinion is not a popular one in general or on this site: I hope you leave no stone unturned and dig deep to see what you can do to save your marriage. If after all is said and done at least you either:

 

*leave with minimal second guessing and regret, OR

*possibly reconnect with a woman you love (even if it’s hard to see right now) on a level you never knew possible

 

Sounds like a rough patch for sure but there’s at least one internet stranger rooting for you, your wife and “T.” Much love and best wishes.

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Help out more with your child, household stuff, etc and she'll have more time for you. It's fine she has support from her own family. It's the first child so there's a learning curve for everyone.

My wife has constantly put me down over the past 6 months - innocuous, very knit picky things: oh T's diaper is low (early on in his life) , etc. Not just that, but she has constantly sided with her family on everything.

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I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like she is falling out of love with you, her love level must be very low. And we all know what happens when it hits rock bottom - it's divorce time. Wives file first for divorce twice as often as husbands.

 

Find a counselor who knows how to bring her love level back up. Get second opinions. Make sure you are giving her affection, respect, romance, and trust, like you did in the beginning. Get a babysitter and go out on a date once in awhile. Do it quickly before it's too late.

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Things are not fixed because you two are not communicating, someone isn't forthcoming with their issues, and having a baby is life changing. There are some people who regret it, even tho they love the child. They are looking at it as, I can't handle this for the next 18 years! Sounds to me she needs to sort this out more than you do, just she's not cooperating like she should. Why? probably worried about being abandoned raising a kid on her own, but on the other hand wants to leave this situation. She's feeling very stuck. IMO if the counseling isn't helping, find different counselors. Maybe she needs a psychiatrist instead. Maybe the root of this is mental health issues, and not simple marital issues. Some women experience depression after having a child. It's something to look into.

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Maybe she has PPD? ( postpartum depression)? I remember she had latch issues as well. But you being aggressive with her family needs to go.

 

That is just what I was wondering. And sleep deprivation can do crazy things if the baby is still waking up at night.

 

Did anything in particular happen with her parents and how they treat her, the baby and show respect to her way of doing things with your child? I tolerated my inlaws seeing the baby because I knew it was best and also -wow -did they love him to pieces and he loved them too -but there were certain things they did (well really just my FIL) that drove me crazy and made me want to limit time/environment. Things that were unclean, unsafe, disrespectful to my wishes. It was really really stressful and my husband didn't always back me up. Do you back her up? Or at least address things privately?

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It is just sad to bring a child into the world to get divorced in 6 months because people can’t learn to stuff their pride and learn to communicate and be civil to each other’s parents.

 

It is hard to have a child. Your life is never the same but if this is what you wanted you need to get over the extensive “me” and “ us” time . That shizle is over for a while. I am not saying it needs ALL to be over but you are parents now so it is not just about you and your needs anymore.

 

Y’all need to learn to communicate and be kind to one another .

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Many of your already know my story, but for those unfamiliar here is a quick run down: my wife of (~3 years) and together for ~13 years. We now have a 6 month old child we'll refer to as T going forward.

 

I have many posts from around when we got married ~3 years ago - with me in a very conflicted state : sort of like how I am now (just now in much more worse).

 

Anywho, my wife and I were finally able to conceive T ~6 months ago. It was a really tough situation for us - we tried naturally for 2 years without any success, so we went the iui route.

 

We now have a 6 month old - who is the joy of our worlds.

 

Anywho ever since my wife gave birth to T - she has completely sidelined me, ran away a lot of the summer (shes a teacher - with 3 months off), and has completely disregarded us or our marriage.

 

I mean T is an awesome addition to our lives, he really is awesome!!!!

 

My wife has constantly put me down over the past 6 months - innocuous, very knit picky things: oh T's diaper is low (early on in his life) , etc. Not just that, but she has constantly sided with her family on everything.

 

Prior to T - we had a lot of fun together - going to places, going out to eat, and just enjoying each other.

 

Nowadays (the past 6 months) : she wont let my parents watch T ever - they've seen him for 1-3 hours literally a half dozen times over the past 6 months - so we dont get a chance to ever redevelop that chemistry with each other.

 

She is downright NEUROTIC about anything and everything with T and puts me, and my family down constantly - but sees no problem with herself or her family: they do everything perfect and know everything about babies (supposedly ? lol) - the truth: this isnt true.

 

I personally feel like I've hit my limit with her, and having T be around us under the same roof is only detrimental to his development - when she snarks about innocuous things going on or so she perceives that.

 

What types of things should a guy in a situation like I'm in do?

 

I've began to pull away from her - all communication with her is brief.

 

We currently cook separate dinners, but eat at the same kitchen table, and for the past 4 weeks especially sit there and eat, but not a single word is mentioned (this is all after T is sleeping)

Occasionally have spats at night about things dealing with T, or her family, or my family.

We probably havent had sex in...... 2 years?

We dont kiss ever

We rarely hug

She never appreciates what I do for her, or T.

She treats me like a constant doormat - ESPECIALLY the past 6 months. I cant do anything right, no matter how hard I try.

Her family completely disrespected me 10 days into being a father with totally outright and ridiculous comments. This resulted in me kicking them out of my house. This appears to be a kindling to fueling A LOT of current problems we're having. I apologized for maybe going a bit overboard with my anger towards them, to which they never responded to it (sent a text). What makes matters worse is - my wife backs them to no end, and YOU guessed it sees no fault with what they tried to pull on me, in my house house, 10 days into being a father. In fact she sees them as 'justified' in what they did.

 

We've gone to some couples counseling for like a month now, and seperate individual counseling for ~2 months.

 

So far we havent fixed anything in my opinion, despite bringing up these concerns (and many others) - nothing ever changes .

 

Bottom line: I think I stayed SO long with her because we had a great relationship, until T, and she went off the deep end with being neurotic to me, overly obsessive over _every_ single thing dealing with T, and backing her parents even if they try to put down me, my character, while being only 10 days into being a brand new father. I feel like there hasnt been anything between us for ~2 years: especially physical. The past 6 months there has been nothing physical, or mental between us. There's nothing left.

 

Sorry for the long, and less organized post. I just had to get a bunch off my chest, and wanted to hear your opinions of this all, and your own experiences in divorce.

 

Thanks

 

Can you put your wife on so we can hear her side of the story. It would be helpful to see what she's seeing in regards to you and the relationship. You have a need to control (according to your previous treads) so I'd like her side for a change.

 

My first question to you in the meantime is why did you have a child with this woman with whom you haven't even had sex with in two years. Clearly there were issues in the relationship before the baby was conceived IVF.

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It is just sad to bring a child into the world to get divorced in 6 months because people can’t learn to stuff their pride and learn to communicate and be civil to each other’s parents.

 

It is hard to have a child. Your life is never the same but if this is what you wanted you need to get over the extensive “me” and “ us” time . That shizle is over for a while. I am not saying it needs ALL to be over but you are parents now so it is not just about you and your needs anymore.

 

Y’all need to learn to communicate and be kind to one another .

 

The problems have been going on for years, not just six months.

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I get that but why have a child you paid horrendous amounts of money to have and then say screw it?

 

I would generally agree with this.

 

In this case, however, it's really hard for me to not believe the best choice for everyone's happiness—including the child's—is divorce. I wouldn't even think of it as saying "screw it" so much as doing the most honest thing that gives three people—him, his wife, their child—a shot at a happy life.

 

I took a pretty extensive stroll through past threads of OP's, going back to college, when they met. The issues above have been there since the beginning, and his posting history tells a story of issues getting worse and worse over time, never better. If past behavior is a solid indicator of what the future holds—well, it just doesn't look good. At all. For all three of them. Some relevant highlights:

 

2009:

 

At this point, I do not want to go anywhere near her parents until I get an apology.

 

2010:

 

Over the past year and 8 months there's times when I know I should have just ended it, but I didnt.

 

2011:

 

She complains, complains, complains about everything i do. Nothing ever seems to be good enough for her.

 

2013:

 

It is really strange, but we never have sex anymore (probably a month ago now), and I kinda see us both going in different directions

 

2016, after getting engaged:

 

Recently, I've been really not happy with her (and her family) and thinking through what is coming next. Her family and I just never seemed to jive

 

What I'd say is most concerning, however, is that over and over again these issues are dealt with by taking inauthentic "relationship" steps—moving in, engagements, marriage, and now procreation—with the hopes that a deeper investment in a sinking ship will be the thing that allows it to float, that doing what one "should" do will somehow rectify things while repeatedly having the opposite effect. I understand the mode of thinking that "work" is noble, and can subscribe to it in ways; but I'm ultimately a believer that the most noble thing a human being can do, and learn to do, is be honest. That is very hard, if not impossible, when dishonesty is the fundamental glue and fuel to a relationship.

 

There are relationships that bring out the best sides of people, and relationships that bring out the worst. This seems to be the latter, with trips to counselors and forums taking the edge off just enough chew on, and swallow, a bit more broken glass. Many people need a big relationship, or a few, to learn to be honest about what they want from a relationship, just as people may need some years living in the world to know what they want from life. This seems to be one of those: a relationship that should have ended after a year or two, per OP's own assessment nine years ago, but needed to go another decade for that truth to become undeniable.

 

Reminds me of my closest male friend, who was in a 10 year relationship that went from unhappy to really unhappy, with my friend and his girlfriend, two super type A people, doing everything possible to "make it work" and will themselves into some idea of partnership they both deemed noble. Name it, they tried it, save for marriage and children. When they got engaged he said to me, "I think I needed to propose to really know I don't want to be with her." Thankfully he listened to himself, then, and six years after that breakup can see the whole thing for what it was: a formative and often very lovely two year relationships that extended 8 years past its due date.

 

Yes, a kid changes things, big time. A kid is forever. In my observation and experience—I'm a grown man who thanks my parents divorce for providing me with an awesome, loving childhood—kids thrive most when raised by happy parents and suffer the most when raised by unhappy ones. "Marriage" and "divorce" are not the things that make or break a child's life. These two people are young, 31 or so. If they take some hard, honest steps right now—the steps they've avoided through trying to "work it out"—they can find themselves at 33 or 35 in a pretty wonderful situation: happy in their skin, honest about life, raising a small boy, likely with romantic partners that don't bring out the worst in them. There can be real beauty to that. It is, after all, the thing they both want. They are just both with people, from what I can tell, with whom that is not an option.

 

I'd love to hear his wife's point of view, as another poster has mentioned. But even without that, lifter has over a decade of posts on this site documenting a man who is miserable, and in his misery seems nearly incapable of compassion, empathy, respect, and patience—vital ingredients in both partnership and parenthood. If that can't be cultivated inside the marriage—and there is a decade plus history of those qualities vanishing—it presents a situation that does not bode well for this child.

 

My few cents, at least.

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It was an absolute waste to get married and have a baby. A true pity ,really.

 

Is it a waste if that baby grows up to have an awesome life, surrounded by love and respect?

 

I'd love to offer advice, as I have in some past threads of his, about how to view this more constructively and get past this, seeing it as a trying time that will level out. But level out to what? Pain, dysfunction, and disconnect seem to be the mainstays to this union, with the "work" so far adding to more of the above, not less.

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Is it a waste if that baby grows up to have an awesome life, surrounded by love and respect?

 

I'd love to offer advice, as I have in some past threads of his, about how to view this more constructively and get past this, seeing it as a trying time that will level out. But level out to what? Pain, dysfunction, and disconnect seem to be the mainstays to this union, with the "work" so far adding to more of the above, not less.

Do you really see that though with two families who hate each other ? I don’t .

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Do you really see that though with two families who hate each other ? I don’t .

 

Well, I certainly don't see it with these two staying together. The hardworking, optimistic, and patient romantic in me would love to, but the realist does not. And it is the realist that posts on ENA.

 

Best I can see they are now 30ish and more or less frozen in the sort of dysfunctional romantic dynamic of college kids. Alongside each other, they seem to have grown into the sort of shape people are supposed to grow out of with time, age, experience. The more time together the deeper that becomes. The older the child gets, the more the child will absorb that, be guided by it.

 

Ending this cycle and dynamic would at least make room for a new one, and perhaps space to learn certain things—compassion, patience, respect, and so on—that they cannot learn with each other. A stretch? Maybe. But my imagination can go there, while it can't see it happening in this marriage from the evidence I have and the lens I come with.

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Well, I certainly don't see it with these two staying together. The hardworking, optimistic, and patient romantic in me would love to, but the realist does not. And it is the realist that posts on ENA.

 

Best I can see they are now 30ish and more or less frozen in the sort of dysfunctional romantic dynamic of college kids. Alongside each other, they seem to have grown into the sort of shape people are supposed to grow out of with time, age, experience. The more time together the deeper that becomes. The older the child gets, the more the child will absorb that, be guided by it.

 

Ending this cycle and dynamic would at least make room for a new one, and perhaps space to learn certain things—compassion, patience, respect, and so on—that they cannot learn with each other. A stretch? Maybe. But my imagination can go there, while it can't see it happening in this marriage from the evidence I have and the lens I come with.

 

Your "stretch" and imagination comment reminds me of a friend who advised me to marry someone I was unsure of so I could have my baby before my clock ran out and then I could divorce him. At the time she was serious/engaged to someone she was head over heels with and he with her. They were married less than 10 years, two beautiful kids, ugly divorce/custody battle. Look, it's done but no I don't think getting married and then having a baby based on remote possibilities and the imagination that if it doesn't work out then they might be better parents apart than together is not a good idea and not in the best interests of a child.

I don't see any indication that either of these people will want to grow and change into people who co-parent in a mature way and give this child the kind of life you had. There's always the possibility of course. And it's not what I'm seeing in the least.

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I don't see any indication that either of these people will want to grow and change into people who co-parent in a mature way and give this child the kind of life you had. There's always the possibility of course. And it's not what I'm seeing in the least.

 

I'm hardly an advocate for marrying and procreating with the backup plan of harmonious co-parenting.

 

But is there any indication that, together, they can give this child and each other a stable life? I suspect you'd have to go back to the first six months to find anything like two people who love and respect each other and share a vision for the future. And in that you are going back to people who are teenagers.

 

It's a very heartbreaking situation, this one, where I feel for all parties.

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I'm hardly an advocate for marrying and procreating with the backup plan of harmonious co-parenting.

 

But is there any indication that, together, they can give this child and each other a stable life? I suspect you'd have to go back to the first six months to find anything like two people who love and respect each other and share a vision for the future. And in that you are going back to people who are teenagers.

 

It's a very heartbreaking situation, this one, where I feel for all parties.

 

No and I thought your comment was that you saw a "possibility" that apart they would grow into mature, responsible, compassionate, co-parenting adults. I'm not a fan of possibilities like that when it involve a baby,so, all else equal better for them to work on their marriage now that they've chosen to bring a child into this world because yes, all else equal, an intact two-parent family is better than a divorced family - all else equal. No, I don't see where apart would make much of a difference -they'd still have to co-parent, work out a custody plan, get their families to get along so all else equal perhaps they can try a good marriage counselor.

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I like your way of thinking. In ways it surprises me that OP doesn’t seem capable of sharing it.

 

Ostensibly, as a “lifter,” he is able to see a broad story in which a number of variables (patience, commitment, pain, pleasure, faith) add up to a strong whole that gets stronger by not putting too much weight on any one variable for too long. Yet when it comes to family, or perhaps to interpersonal relationships, the vision is more myopic, with one variable eclipsing all others for a time, until another takes the stage, and all of them someone being seen as threats to the whole rather than pieces of it.

 

Of course, lifting weights does not require you to appreciate or accept the nuance of the weights. They are inanimate objects that weigh exactly what they say they weigh, never changing shape, and so there is not just the illusion but the reality of “control,” in both the immediate sense (lifting 100 lbs above your head) and the long term sense (becoming stronger rather than weaker over time). Relationships require a certain surrender of control to function, to stay strong, the muscle of humility.

 

Would be great if this could be worked on, and if a whole new structure could be created to define “success” and “failure” as that work is undertaken. But you do need at least one party, and ideally two, to be capable of seeing it along those lines.

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All of this could just stop if they would give up trying to be "right" and focus on providing a loving, secure home for their child.

 

But, by golly, they both NEED to be "right". Furthermore, they NEED their spouse to be "wrong" and they think it's there job to prove they're "right" and their spouse is "wrong".

 

Can't you just stop this? Can't you make your child more important than your egos?

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