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Thread: HECK of a saga, and im feeling more and more ready pull the trigger on divorce..

  1. #21
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    Well, I certainly don't see it with these two staying together. The hardworking, optimistic, and patient romantic in me would love to, but the realist does not. And it is the realist that posts on ENA.

    Best I can see they are now 30ish and more or less frozen in the sort of dysfunctional romantic dynamic of college kids. Alongside each other, they seem to have grown into the sort of shape people are supposed to grow out of with time, age, experience. The more time together the deeper that becomes. The older the child gets, the more the child will absorb that, be guided by it.

    Ending this cycle and dynamic would at least make room for a new one, and perhaps space to learn certain things—compassion, patience, respect, and so on—that they cannot learn with each other. A stretch? Maybe. But my imagination can go there, while it can't see it happening in this marriage from the evidence I have and the lens I come with.
    Your "stretch" and imagination comment reminds me of a friend who advised me to marry someone I was unsure of so I could have my baby before my clock ran out and then I could divorce him. At the time she was serious/engaged to someone she was head over heels with and he with her. They were married less than 10 years, two beautiful kids, ugly divorce/custody battle. Look, it's done but no I don't think getting married and then having a baby based on remote possibilities and the imagination that if it doesn't work out then they might be better parents apart than together is not a good idea and not in the best interests of a child.
    I don't see any indication that either of these people will want to grow and change into people who co-parent in a mature way and give this child the kind of life you had. There's always the possibility of course. And it's not what I'm seeing in the least.

  2. #22
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I don't see any indication that either of these people will want to grow and change into people who co-parent in a mature way and give this child the kind of life you had. There's always the possibility of course. And it's not what I'm seeing in the least.
    I'm hardly an advocate for marrying and procreating with the backup plan of harmonious co-parenting.

    But is there any indication that, together, they can give this child and each other a stable life? I suspect you'd have to go back to the first six months to find anything like two people who love and respect each other and share a vision for the future. And in that you are going back to people who are teenagers.

    It's a very heartbreaking situation, this one, where I feel for all parties.

  3. #23
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I'm hardly an advocate for marrying and procreating with the backup plan of harmonious co-parenting.

    But is there any indication that, together, they can give this child and each other a stable life? I suspect you'd have to go back to the first six months to find anything like two people who love and respect each other and share a vision for the future. And in that you are going back to people who are teenagers.

    It's a very heartbreaking situation, this one, where I feel for all parties.
    No and I thought your comment was that you saw a "possibility" that apart they would grow into mature, responsible, compassionate, co-parenting adults. I'm not a fan of possibilities like that when it involve a baby,so, all else equal better for them to work on their marriage now that they've chosen to bring a child into this world because yes, all else equal, an intact two-parent family is better than a divorced family - all else equal. No, I don't see where apart would make much of a difference -they'd still have to co-parent, work out a custody plan, get their families to get along so all else equal perhaps they can try a good marriage counselor.

  4. #24
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    I like your way of thinking. In ways it surprises me that OP doesn’t seem capable of sharing it.

    Ostensibly, as a “lifter,” he is able to see a broad story in which a number of variables (patience, commitment, pain, pleasure, faith) add up to a strong whole that gets stronger by not putting too much weight on any one variable for too long. Yet when it comes to family, or perhaps to interpersonal relationships, the vision is more myopic, with one variable eclipsing all others for a time, until another takes the stage, and all of them someone being seen as threats to the whole rather than pieces of it.

    Of course, lifting weights does not require you to appreciate or accept the nuance of the weights. They are inanimate objects that weigh exactly what they say they weigh, never changing shape, and so there is not just the illusion but the reality of “control,” in both the immediate sense (lifting 100 lbs above your head) and the long term sense (becoming stronger rather than weaker over time). Relationships require a certain surrender of control to function, to stay strong, the muscle of humility.

    Would be great if this could be worked on, and if a whole new structure could be created to define “success” and “failure” as that work is undertaken. But you do need at least one party, and ideally two, to be capable of seeing it along those lines.

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  6. #25
    Platinum Member boltnrun's Avatar
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    All of this could just stop if they would give up trying to be "right" and focus on providing a loving, secure home for their child.

    But, by golly, they both NEED to be "right". Furthermore, they NEED their spouse to be "wrong" and they think it's there job to prove they're "right" and their spouse is "wrong".

    Can't you just stop this? Can't you make your child more important than your egos?

  7. #26
    Platinum Member ThatwasThen's Avatar
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    I think the Op would do well to get himself into counseling and get himself off of steroids if he is on them. To stay with this woman and to go as far as having a baby with her when he's done so much complaining about her is nothing but codependency at its finest.

    He's clearly not going to leave her (but she may leave him) so he needs the tools to help him navigate this union without the BS that goes on in it. He owes it to his kid.

  8. #27
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    Originally Posted by boltnrun
    All of this could just stop if they would give up trying to be "right" and focus on providing a loving, secure home for their child.

    But, by golly, they both NEED to be "right". Furthermore, they NEED their spouse to be "wrong" and they think it's there job to prove they're "right" and their spouse is "wrong".

    Can't you just stop this? Can't you make your child more important than your egos?
    The entire relationship has been toxic. No hope here!

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