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The person that won't go away


trvekvlt

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Quick recap:

 

I've been with my GF for almost 5 years. In the first year, she told me about a guy she had a brief relationship with a year prior (no sex according to her, fwiw) had reached out to her about coming to see him. He lives out of the country, central america (he's american and used to live local to us). I appreciated she shared that with me and it immediately built trust. Let's call this guy "mike"

 

Fast forward a year later, she went out with her girlfriends. Come to find out, a friend of mine was at the same bar. She was with her gf's, but also some of their guys were there - and mike was there. She wasn't forthcoming, so I confronted her. Long story short, she un-friended him on social media, sent him a message that she was committed blah blah blah.

 

Since then, it's been hard for me to trust her. I wish she just would have told me about it - or even better - called me to come down to hang out with them (other people's partners were there, after all - and we live 5 mins from the spot!). I've not been feeling great about things over the last few months. I made the classic mistake of looking at her phone. I feel terrible about it. I only looked at IG and found she had searched this guy recently.

 

I'm struggling with this. I know to some it seems like nothing - but clearly she STILL thinks about this person. It wasn't like they had a long relationship - it was very brief. But after all these years - and the situations I described above, something's still there. As someone whose last relationship ended with infidelity, I feel like I need to end this. My trust has been broken again. Personally, I don't think it's harmless. She was thinking about him and was looking into what he was up to. I've had relationships before and have no desire to do such things. I can only imagine someone doing that if there were still feelings.

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Sorry to hear this. She may not be over him. Even though she acquiesced to your demands on the surface she still has a thing for him. You can tell her to unfriend him but you can't change how she feels. Now that you know how she feels, you'll have to decide if staying with her is worth your while. The combination of your baggage and her crush/friendship is a recipe for hurt and disaster.

I've been with my GF for almost 5 years. He lives out of the country, central america. Let's call this guy "mike"

 

Fast forward a year later - and mike was there. I confronted her. Long story short, she un-friended him on social media, sent him a message that she was committed blah blah blah.

 

I've not been feeling great about things over the last few months. As someone whose last relationship ended with infidelity, I feel like I need to end this.

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What is she showing you? That her ethics are different than yours. That an ego boost and attention from an old flame is worth more to her than risking the serious relationship she's in.

 

After reading your timeline, this incident happened a whole 3 years ago? If she's still searching his name after 5 years with you, then one can only guess either she feels like there is something missing from your relationship, or she's too young to be in a serious relationship and is not done sowing her wild oats, or she will always be this way--seeking out guilty pleasures is how she rolls.

 

After 5 whole years together, if you don't feel 100 percent confidence in moving forward together, then yes, it's probably not the right relationship for you.

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I'm confused.

 

So what you're talking about—Mike reaching out, followed by this bar moment—all happened 3 plus years ago? What happened over the past few months to trigger the jitters that led to the snooping? I just can't help but feel there is more going on here, that something has happened, or been happening, to erode your trust and ability to communicate.

 

Point being: Had you found no evidence of anything I just don't see the situation being any better, as the snooping is already a sign that trust and communication are no longer pillars of the relationship, that you are more interested in proving one hypothesis (that she is a sinner) than another (that you two are good together). Or perhaps you're just wanting to end a relationship that has gone stagnant after 5 years, and looking for a reason? Do you feel like something critical is missing inside the relationship?

 

You know her better than us, and of course you know how you feel. In a vacuum, I don't see internet and social media searches as glaring evidence of anything but human curiosity. It can be "more" than that, of course, but it can also not. Snooping, on the other hand, is very much evidence of distrust, suspicion, and a desire to find comfort in control—things that generally don't bode well for romantic harmony.

 

Can you explain a bit more about how she was "not forthcoming" about Mike being at the bar?

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I'm confused.

 

So what you're talking about—Mike reaching out, followed by this bar moment—all happened 3 plus years ago? What happened over the past few months to trigger the jitters that led to the snooping? I just can't help but feel there is more going on here, that something has happened, or been happening, to erode your trust and ability to communicate.

 

Point being: Had you found no evidence of anything I just don't see the situation being any better, as the snooping is already a sign that trust and communication are no longer pillars of the relationship, that you are more interested in proving one hypothesis (that she is a sinner) than another (that you two are good together). Or perhaps you're just wanting to end a relationship that has gone stagnant after 5 years, and looking for a reason? Do you feel like something critical is missing inside the relationship?

 

You know her better than us, and of course you know how you feel. In a vacuum, I don't see internet and social media searches as glaring evidence of anything but human curiosity. It can be "more" than that, of course, but it can also not. Snooping, on the other hand, is very much evidence of distrust, suspicion, and a desire to find comfort in control—things that generally don't bode well for romantic harmony.

 

Can you explain a bit more about how she was "not forthcoming" about Mike being at the bar?

 

Thank you for your reply. You hit some good questions.

 

I've been feeling like she hasn't prioritized the relationship. This started about 6 months ago. Rarely does she "make time" for me - yet always makes time for friends. I've communicated my feelings on this to her. Sadly, I've only seen her continue down this path rather than respond by showing some effort and attention. I don't need much - I just need to feel important to my partner - and not like I'm the backup option when there's nothing else going on.

 

I think you're right - I'm not happy and I must be looking for something to get me over edge to break things off. Yes, it feels stagnant. I feel I'm almost always the one making the effort to keep things fresh and alive. She's become somewhat boring and complacent. I feel taken for granted - almost always the one cooking, cleaning, paying double the rent she does, generally being a responsible adult and partner.

 

I feel terrible about the snooping - but on the other hand it, in some ways, did provide some context that I never fully trusted her after she wasn't forthcoming about him being at the bar. One thing I failed to mention was that he sent her a message that night, how good it was to see her, kiss emoji. I didn't snoop to see this - I was using her ipad, watching a movie and the notification popped up. Like I said, I don't think I fully trusted her ever since. I was hoping, with time, this would be rebuilt - and now this. to me, better to know than not know that she still thinks of him. You're right, had I found nothing I would likely feel little different as I just haven't been feeling "safe" in the relationship.

 

As for not being forthcoming, she said she was with her gf's. That's a half truth. My values - if I was in that exact situation, I would have either a) removed myself from the situation entirely or b) call/text her that it's more of an open hangout, invite her down, but be clear that someone who had been pursuing me was there

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You've outlined quite a few reasons to end it with her. Even one of those reasons would be enough. You sound very unhappy.

But I too feel that her bringing this man back into the picture, was a huge red flag and one that shouldn't be ignored.

 

Perhaps she's feeling like things are stagnant too and is looking to him now to fill the void.

She definitely didn't forget about him and is willing to risk your relationship over him.

 

I really do think that by all you've said that this relationship is unfortunately winding down.

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Sorry about all this. Can I ask how old you guys are?

 

From what you've written it just sounds like a relationship that has run its course. Five years is a long time, and if you're not confident in where things are and where things are going—well, that's kind of the definition of stagnant. You can try to communicate that again, if you're not quite ready to part ways, or you can choose to part ways, accepting that the turbulence you feel is not conducive to being in a relationship.

 

At the end of the day we all need to feel "safe" inside our relationship. You don't, haven't. That is the main problem, and it sounds like the crack in the foundation was never adequately dealt with. She might feel something similar. I'm reluctant to ascribe much meaning to her searches, as I don't think someone tossing the name of an ex into a social media search engine is an automatic sign of the apocalypse. Could mean something, could mean nothing.

 

Unhappiness, on the other hand, is simply unhappiness. There is always far more power and security in being honest about our own feelings than turning into detectives trying to figure out the feelings of another.

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Sorry about all this. Can I ask how old you guys are?

 

From what you've written it just sounds like a relationship that has run its course. Five years is a long time, and if you're not confident in where things are and where things are going—well, that's kind of the definition of stagnant. You can try to communicate that again, if you're not quite ready to part ways, or you can choose to part ways, accepting that the turbulence you feel is not conducive to being in a relationship.

 

At the end of the day we all need to feel "safe" inside our relationship. You don't, haven't. That is the main problem, and it sounds like the crack in the foundation was never adequately dealt with. She might feel something similar. I'm reluctant to ascribe much meaning to her searches, as I don't think someone tossing the name of an ex into a social media search engine is an automatic sign of the apocalypse. Could mean something, could mean nothing.

 

Unhappiness, on the other hand, is simply unhappiness. There is always far more power and security in being honest about our own feelings than turning into detectives trying to figure out the feelings of another.

 

 

41 (me) and 37 (her). We co-habitate and both have kids.

 

I hear you on "the search" - but if this person is truly in the past - and the relationship never even reached a certain point anyway - it tells me that there's *something* going through her mind about him. He lives 3000 miles away - so it's not like someone she sees out and about. To me, there's something there, even if nothing has or will happen - something that - despite our previous conversations about how this makes me feel - she still thinks of this person and clearly isn't completely fulfilled with our relationship. I don't think of my exes or other women, but lately - more and more - I look at other couples and other people and wonder what I am missing out on. I did notice that the search happened while me and her had a "romantic getaway" airbnb retreat, initiated by me to rekindle things.

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Ok at some level you know that "Mike" is just a symbol of all that is wrong in this union. It sounds a bit like trying to find reasons to go outside the relationship, from "she's become boring" to "she lied 3 yrs ago" . Are you ready to move out? Or do you wish to rekindle things? Would couples therapy help?. Stop focusing on "Mike" and focus on going to couples therapy or starting the process of severing your union.

41 (me) and 37 (her). We co-habitate and both have kids.

 

He lives 3000 miles away - so it's not like someone she sees out and about. lately - more and more - I look at other couples and other people and wonder what I am missing out on.

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I hear you back. Glad to be of some help.

 

Regardless of what that "something" behind her search is or might be, it sounds like you very much have a "something" of your own: the looking at other couples, longing for something you're not getting. That's human, as is how we deal with that.

 

While I'm not trying to excuse or minimize her own behavior, I'm trying—per the above—to nudge you to find power and stability right now by acknowledging your own feelings (and how they've been handled over the years) rather than looking for cracks in her own, along with moral transgressions, since the power you get from that is illusory. I just can't help but think there is some projection going on: that you see in her search (and in this guy) an extension of something you're also reckoning with—a feeling of disconnect, a longing for something more, something else.

 

So, yeah, you can zoom out on all of this and go: ugh, the end. You can also "blame" the end on her and draw it all back to Mike and that night at the bar. But if you're not ready for that—and, in ways, even if you are—I think you have to see this in a bigger picture: two people in a relationship where they don't quite feel safe or satisfied and have not figured out a way to address that together, actively and productively. Snooping, of course, is passive—as is searching for an ex when you're feeling lonely. Same coin, different sides. A "romantic getaway" to "rekindle things" can also be passive, if that narrative exists only in one mind. Was that the shared intention of that trip?

 

Were I to try to tell a story with the facts you've provided it would be that each of you has contributed to a missing brick or two required for building a "safe" castle in which you can each feel secure. Time is weight, weight exerts pressure, and today those missing bricks in the foundation are being felt. That would be the story that would provide me with a sense of security, in your shoes, so then I could calmly ask the hard question of: Do I believe there is a way to address those missing bricks, together, or do I believe the only honest way to address them is separating?

 

Mike is just a random dude, 3,000 miles away, who has been given outsized mental symbolism, perhaps in both your minds. He is not the poison, in short, but the symptom of something that you guys have not figured out how to properly treat.

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I hear you back. Glad to be of some help.

 

Regardless of what that "something" behind her search is or might be, it sounds like you very much have a "something" of your own: the looking at other couples, longing for something you're not getting. That's human, as is how we deal with that.

 

While I'm not trying to excuse or minimize her own behavior, I'm trying—per the above—to nudge you to find power and stability right now by acknowledging your own feelings (and how they've been handled over the years) rather than looking for cracks in her own, along with moral transgressions, since the power you get from that is illusory. I just can't help but think there is some projection going on: that you see in her search (and in this guy) an extension of something you're also reckoning with—a feeling of disconnect, a longing for something more, something else.

 

So, yeah, you can zoom out on all of this and go: ugh, the end. You can also "blame" the end on her and draw it all back to Mike and that night at the bar. But if you're not ready for that—and, in ways, even if you are—I think you have to see this in a bigger picture: two people in a relationship where they don't quite feel safe or satisfied and have not figured out a way to address that together, actively and productively. Snooping, of course, is passive—as is searching for an ex when you're feeling lonely. Same coin, different sides. A "romantic getaway" to "rekindle things" can also be passive, if that narrative exists only in one mind. Was that the shared intention of that trip?

 

Were I to try to tell a story with the facts you've provided it would be that each of you has contributed to a missing brick or two required for building a "safe" castle in which you can each feel secure. Time is weight, weight exerts pressure, and today those missing bricks in the foundation are being felt. That would be the story that would provide me with a sense of security, in your shoes, so then I could calmly ask the hard question of: Do I believe there is a way to address those missing bricks, together, or do I believe the only honest way to address them is separating?

 

Mike is just a random dude, 3,000 miles away, who has been given outsized mental symbolism, perhaps in both your minds. He is not the poison, in short, but the symptom of something that you guys have not figured out how to properly treat.

 

You've given me much to think about with this. It hits deep - and with precision. For that, I am grateful.

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Happy to help.

 

Questions: Since that long ago night at the bar, has Mike come up in conversations, either brought up by her or by you? And are your children’s lives intertwined?

 

Sadly, it has. Not by her - but by me. Once in a counseling session. It came up another time when we had a disagreement over (in my view) her lack of empathy(?) when I reasonably expected her to be home for dinner and she did not communicate to me where she was or when she'd be home. She had a sports game - I assumed she'd be home right after - she then stayed for a second game, then went out for drinks after that. the tie in with Mike was that she was supposed be having a "girls night". Once that wasn't the case - and some of their SO's were there (some of which have become my friends by extension), I felt hurt that I wasn't told and invited to come down too!

 

Unfortunately, this type of thing hasn't been super rare for her. I'd say a few times a year. It happened most recently just this past saturday. Each time, I believe what she's telling me - at least in regards to where she is etc. Given how things have been going, it's getting hard to not be more suspicious. Very similar behavior from my last relationship - and it turned out to be infidelity. On that topic, it's hard not to think I've enabled this behavior - but I've been quite clear each time what we should expect from each other on this. It's starting to feel like ending it is the only solution. Now that I think about it, while I didn't realize at the moment, this is why I felt compelled to look at her phone.

 

Yes, kids all live with us half the time, same schedule. Same school. They all get along really great since day one.

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I'm not saying this is the case, but I have heard that we attract certain people based on being broken ourselves, or (some parts within us).

 

You keep attracting women who are not faithful. That might, in part, be something you are unconsciously attracting or as you say, enabling.

Perhaps there is a deeper part of you that recognizes the traits or did recognize the traits from your ex and seen them in this woman due to not being healed.

 

Maybe it's a type of self fulfilling prophecy, expecting someone to cheat on you so you choose partners who are unfaithful.

You do recognize the behaviors, and yet you continue to look past it or try to justify it.

 

You do sound as though you have trust issues and no one would blame you seeing as you've been cheated on.

But it could be more than just bad luck that you've had two gf's back to back who are not faithful.

 

I'm not saying this is 100% the case, but it might be something to consider.

 

As for this relationship, I do feel it's gotten too far off track to fix, based on the information you've given so far.

Though no one knows for sure, expect for you.

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I'm not surprised—and, being honest, I figured you were the one brining him up more than her.

 

Was that the case before the bar night, or only after? I ask because I'm getting the impression that you carry a lot of hurt from your last relationship, and maybe, as Sherry noted, carried that hurt into this one a bit in the form of a suspicious edge. Whether that hurt carried you to connect to someone who is inherently untrustworthy or whether it preconditioned you to be incapable of trusting someone—well, that I'm not totally sure of.

 

It's a bit like seeing trust as a test that someone must pass, rather than a thing you build together, with "Mike" representing a failure of that test. He's the thing you can find a certain form of comfort in (the comfort in not trusting her/women) at the expense of a deeper form of comfort (trusting her/women). I'm just riffing, of course, hoping to help you see it all clearly so you can make whatever choice you need to make with clear eyes.

 

Can you say more about how you feel you've enabled this behavior, or what you meant by that? Do you mean someone being secretive?

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I'm not saying this is the case, but I have heard that we attract certain people based on being broken ourselves, or (some parts within us).

 

You keep attracting women who are not faithful. That might, in part, be something you are unconsciously attracting or as you say

 

This is something I read about a while back but the context was domestic violence and the question had been put forward * why do I keep attracting violence * ( you know I am a believer of the laws of the universe so it was that kind of reading )

Anyway ...the response made sense ( to me ) .... we attract what we put out there the most , our thoughts and the whole be careful what you wish for . In the case of this person they didn't want to attract a partner who was violent again ..so they put every ounce of their energy into thinking they don't want that voilence , and thinking about violence and mulling over their violent past etc etc ..basically every waking moment regarding a mate was based around violence .....guess what they got ! Makes perfect sense , but of course not everyone does believe in what I do . Fair enough .

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I'm so sorry to hear about all this. I had an ex that cheated on me also and the subsequent relationship after that was broken from the start. Or rather I was broken and he was mean. Really mean. It didn't work out. Later on I met my husband who knew about my past and accepted and loved me anyway and whose love made up for all the things I experienced before. I also grew stronger over time and learned to trust and love myself in ways that I learned no one else can ever do for me.

 

I'd be wary of looking for trust and love when you can't trust and love yourself either. Give yourself a chance to grow strong again. If she's not right for you, it's not the end of the world. Look on the positive side as much as possible and give yourself more hope for your own future. You owe it to yourself, I think.

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I'm not surprised—and, being honest, I figured you were the one brining him up more than her.

 

Was that the case before the bar night, or only after? I ask because I'm getting the impression that you carry a lot of hurt from your last relationship, and maybe, as Sherry noted, carried that hurt into this one a bit in the form of a suspicious edge. Whether that hurt carried you to connect to someone who is inherently untrustworthy or whether it preconditioned you to be incapable of trusting someone—well, that I'm not totally sure of.

 

It's a bit like seeing trust as a test that someone must pass, rather than a thing you build together, with "Mike" representing a failure of that test. He's the thing you can find a certain form of comfort in (the comfort in not trusting her/women) at the expense of a deeper form of comfort (trusting her/women). I'm just riffing, of course, hoping to help you see it all clearly so you can make whatever choice you need to make with clear eyes.

 

Can you say more about how you feel you've enabled this behavior, or what you meant by that? Do you mean someone being secretive?

 

The bar incident really triggered me. It felt dishonest.

 

I do carry hurt from my last relationship. It was a 15 year marriage with three kids. I was completely, totally trusting.

 

That said, in the end, my divorce was what was best. We grew apart. I just wish she'd have ended it before the affairs. Yes, plural.

 

I don't feel I had trust issues at all in this current relationship until the Mike/Bar incident. Like I said, that REALLY made me lose a ton of trust. When his name was first mentioned (couple years prior), I was surprised she was so forthcoming. It actually *built* my trust and made me think I was with someone who was going to be forthcoming about such interference.

 

When I say I feel I've enabled the behavior, what I mean is that I've addressed each and every situation in an appropriate way - but it continues because I haven't taken decisive action. I trust that she'll be more mindful - as she promises she will - and move on from it. I honestly can't tell if this type of thing just doesn't register in her mind - or if she can't be bothered to "check in".

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Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you ever really healed fully from your past and the damage cheating did. You say that you fully trust your gf and yet one event viewed through a highly toxic lens of "I've been cheated on and have trust issues" has poisoned your current relationship instantly. That's not trust and that's not healthy.

 

Your expectation that an adult woman should have called you over, kept you up to date, couldn't stay out for another game and socialize with people like an adult is really seriously misplaced. She owed you nothing, yet you keep beating that drum because of your past. It's not shady for two adults in a relationship to have an adult social life outside of each other. This situation you are describing wasn't exactly planned where you were expected to join her and then she disappeared on you - she already had a planned evening to herself. You are choosing to project your personal baggage to that and more importantly, you've been checked out emotionally since then. So no surprise that your relationship is now dead and disconnected. You've been emotionally punishing your gf with unreasonable, unrealistic, idealistic expectations for years and why? Over shaite your ex did.

 

You are right to break up because your gf deserves better than this and you shouldn't date for a long time and get your head screwed on straight and figure out how to leave your past in the past. Do not date only to get triggered in and start punishing your current partners for YOUR baggage. Until you figure out how to leave it behind and heal, stay away from relationships.

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I honestly can't tell if this type of thing just doesn't register in her mind - or if she can't be bothered to "check in".

 

She isn't doing it to hurt you... my suggestion is to stop taking everything she does personally and do a deeper reflection on why she might be pulling away from you.

 

It's not her fault you were hurt in the past by infidelity, yet you continue to punish her by expecting her to completely give up her privacy in order to make you feel better about the relationship. The question is... what are you doing to make her feel better about the relationship? Why does she have to be the one going out of her way to prove her loyalty to you? What are you doing to show her that you trust her without her having to twist into a pretzel for you?

 

You have held that one situation over her head now for literally years... and want to control everything she does... what does she get out of that?

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