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Thread: Is she self-centered? Am I being unreasonable?

  1. #21
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    Originally Posted by Wiseman2
    This type of statement is manipulative and comes from a point of weakness. Don't keep beating her up to displace your issues about Jane on her. However it sounds like she's not going to put up with your crap for much longer as revealed in her remark reflecting your anger back on you...where it belongs. Improved self respect would help you communicate better. That means stop thinking you need to bully to get respected.
    he treated jane like she was a child, so i am not really surprised by this text.

    I think you still have SOOO much baggage from your ex.

    not *from* the ex, but from the breakup and refusal to not prolong the breakup. Since she is still living at his place, they have not "uncoupled" so to speak and she very well could try to win him back upon his return since he did not have it in him to tie loose ends.

    How can you meet any woman who is serious in this case? I would say you would only attract women who are only looking for casual or are trainwrecks being that you have a fresh breakup from an LTR and she is still living there. A woman just would not take it seriously.

  2. #22
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    Originally Posted by abitbroken
    he treated jane like she was a child, so i am not really surprised by this text.

    I think you still have SOOO much baggage from your ex.

    not *from* the ex, but from the breakup and refusal to not prolong the breakup. Since she is still living at his place, they have not "uncoupled" so to speak and she very well could try to win him back upon his return since he did not have it in him to tie loose ends.

    How can you meet any woman who is serious in this case? I would say you would only attract women who are only looking for casual or are trainwrecks being that you have a fresh breakup from an LTR and she is still living there. A woman just would not take it seriously.
    What a big mess. Don't you think you should have finished with the first one?!

  3. #23
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Okay, wow... quite a lot of critical comments overnight. Starting to see how people can get triggered here :P I will reflect on some of it, but I do not agree with some of the commentary, though I appreciate the good intent. So my genuine thanks to everybody.

    Let me answer a few quick quesitons:

    @abitbroken

    Why did you not just book seats together?
    It was a last minute trip, there were no seats next to each other to book.

    @maew
    That all being said.... that text you sent? Pretty ball$y my friend... my own father doesn't speak to me that way, much less someone I was dating.... curious as to her response to said text, as mine would have been to immediately block you and delete your number without explanation.
    @Hollyj
    That text was bad. You sounded like a parent.
    I admit that in the cold light of day, my text was a bit too harsh. I should have calmed down and addressed it the following day in a more diplomatic tone. However, I do not feel it is wrong to address an issue that will be a source of frustration and conflict if this relationship goes anywhere.

    As for how she reacted? At first with a sort of defiance (lasting 1-2mins), but as I suggested leaving the matter for the night, she apologized and explained herself. We then had an affectionate and nice video call before going to sleep. So I think her initial response was that she was quite fed up to be criticized after a hard day with other stresses (I should have been more considerate), but then I guess she did not want me to go to sleep angry, so wanted to resolve things?

    The next day (yesterday), I asked her if maybe my outburst bothered her, she said something like, "No, I knew that I was wrong, what you said was correct, I need to get rid of bad habits to improve."

    @tattoobunnie
    Way to much pressure and way too much eggs in one basket. She could have been a total mess, so instead of showing up rolling out of bed, she let you know she was running late.

    I am the "show up 15 minutes early everywhere and anywhere possible" person, and stuff happens. If she didn't tell you, then it's not cool. But she did, so just let it go; she didn't want to show up smelly - you are not at the roll out bed look and be cool with it junction of your relationship.

    The good morning, good night texts? BARF! BARF! Double BARF! I couldn't stand that. I love my hubs to bits, when you're feeling secure, you don't need that. Just call her and hang out together. Don't base your relationship on nonsense texts. I know plenty of people who were in constant communication, and posting how awesome and in love they were on facebook, and ya know where they are? BROKEN UP!

    And the seat thing? You ever open those doors? Not easy for a thin, lean Chinese girl. Probably didn't see the point of trying to open 8 train doors! And it's a bit scary.

    I think you still have SOOO much baggage from your ex. So, you just gotta take a deep breath, and just talk it out with your friends and family and your enotalone family, cuz god's honest truth, you are really grasping at straws here. And I don't think this relationship will last; you still have a lot of work to do on yourself.
    Ok, as hard as that is to read, I think you are right. I got used to a long-ish relationship with somebody suffocatingly affectionate. I think that probably gave me an unrealistic expectation of normality when it came to the train situation and the goodmorning/goodnight routine. I need to chill a bit and stop holding Cathy up to the parts of Jane that I miss the most.

  4. #24
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    @Wiseman2

    This type of statement is manipulative and comes from a point of weakness. Don't keep beating her up to displace your issues about Jane on her. However it sounds like she's not going to put up with your crap for much longer as revealed in her remark reflecting your anger back on you...where it belongs. Improved self respect would help you communicate better. That means stop thinking you need to bully to get respected.
    Whilst I agree that I should not have confronted her about it whilst I was angry, and I should not have got so wound up about it in the first place. Punctuality is important to me and to a lot of other people. I do not think I am wrong to voice my displeasure at her inconsideration. If she is capable of improvement on the matter and I am capable of greater tolerance for inevitable future slip ups, then maybe it will not be a red line issue for us. That remains to be seen.

    I disagree that my tone was aggressive, bullying or manipulative, or that it comes from a place of weakness. I was honest about what bothered me and why it bothered me. I do not see how that is a bad thing in communications between a mature couple. There is no intent to manipulate, it was not a "power play" or any such, the issue genuinely annoyed me, I let her know that it would be a significant problem if it persisted, told her what to do in the future... she accepted it and we moved on.

    I have my insecurities of course, mostly relating to a sense of underachievement in my career, and some superficial issues like height. But I do not doubt my core value, not one iota. I am clear-minded enough to NOT put up with everything from Cathy just because she is the most beautiful woman I have ever had in my life. I do not think that is the mentality of weakness and insecurity. I respect her for who she is, I expect the same in return, that is all. I want to be equals in my relationship, not feel like a guardian (like with Jane) or to put her on a pedestal (like previous suitors might have done).

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  6. #25
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    @abitbroken

    he treated jane like she was a child, so i am not really surprised by this text.

    I think you still have SOOO much baggage from your ex.

    not *from* the ex, but from the breakup and refusal to not prolong the breakup. Since she is still living at his place, they have not "uncoupled" so to speak and she very well could try to win him back upon his return since he did not have it in him to tie loose ends.

    How can you meet any woman who is serious in this case? I would say you would only attract women who are only looking for casual or are trainwrecks being that you have a fresh breakup from an LTR and she is still living there. A woman just would not take it seriously.
    @Hollyj
    What a big mess. Don't you think you should have finished with the first one?!
    Okay, on this point, as I have mentioned previously, I accept that I am carrying some baggage from my previous relationship. But who isn't? Everybody is molded by their life experience, including previous relationship, or a lack there-of.

    I do not think that I have not de-coupled with Jane. Just to be clear, we are living thousands of miles apart and I may never return to that city again. I have not contacted her since the breakup except to give her a (generous) deadline for moving out, due to her rather unique and challenging circumstances. She has not contacted me except a few days after the breakup. I think (hope) she is moving on. I have not given her any indication that reconciliation is possible.

    Ideally, life should be clean and clear, but it is not... I am trying my best to untangle everything metaphorically and literally.

  7. #26
    Platinum Member maew's Avatar
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    Did you intend to come across as a parent? I am sure you didn't... but that's how it landed on everyone that read your message. It's okay that you don't agree, as you are entitled to your point of view... however I believe that we always have room for improvement in our lives and sometimes having others point out our blindspots is how we get there.

    There is a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People"... perhaps you have heard of it as it's a fairly old book written sometime in the 50's or 60's I think, however it's still a very popular book on emotional intelligence and influencing others... one of the key takeaways for me when I read it was that criticizing others is a sure way to make them dig their heels in and resist even more, while communicating on an emotional level and practicing empathy will enable people to be heard and therefore come to consensus.

    Sharing your feelings about what happened vs. lecturing her is much more likely to work in terms of communicating your point of view... however for this to work, you also have to be willing to listen to and try to understand her and where she is coming from.

  8. #27
    Platinum Member Jibralta's Avatar
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    It doesn't sound like she has much of a shot when this is your attitude in general:

    Originally Posted by MirrorKnight
    Then again, I am not oblivious to the fact that women do use tears to manipulate men... so I don't really know what to think.
    And you seem predisposed to taking a parental role:

    Originally Posted by MirrorKnight
    "If you actually care about me and respect me, you need to fix this punctuality problem. Disrespecting my time means disrespecting me. If your previous BFs tolerated this and you equate never confronting you with loving you and caring for you, then you are wrong, because it means enabling a bad habit, and having no self-respect."
    You complain that your last girlfriend was too needy and too clingy. But that's what you're going to get if you treat women like children. Women who don't need to be parented won't put up with that treatment. It's not even worth an argument, they'll just move on.

  9. #28
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by maew
    Did you intend to come across as a parent? I am sure you didn't... but that's how it landed on everyone that read your message. It's okay that you don't agree, as you are entitled to your point of view... however I believe that we always have room for improvement in our lives and sometimes having others point out our blindspots is how we get there.

    There is a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People"... perhaps you have heard of it as it's a fairly old book written sometime in the 50's or 60's I think, however it's still a very popular book on emotional intelligence and influencing others... one of the key takeaways for me when I read it was that criticizing others is a sure way to make them dig their heels in and resist even more, while communicating on an emotional level and practicing empathy will enable people to be heard and therefore come to consensus.

    Sharing your feelings about what happened vs. lecturing her is much more likely to work in terms of communicating your point of view... however for this to work, you also have to be willing to listen to and try to understand her and where she is coming from.
    Thanks for your input.

    You make a good point. I think I do come across rather condescending sometimes. It has been an issue not only in romance, but my social life in general. I am prone to try to reason with people with logic, facts and principles, when differences occur, but it can come across preachy and pontificating. I have been told to "don't be so serious" or "lighten up" on occasion. I have heard of that book and will check it out when I have the time to do so.

  10. #29
    Silver Member MirrorKnight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jibralta
    It doesn't sound like she has much of a shot when this is your attitude in general:

    And you seem predisposed to taking a parental role:

    You complain that your last girlfriend was too needy and too clingy. But that's what you're going to get if you treat women like children. Women who don't need to be parented won't put up with that treatment. It's not even worth an argument, they'll just move on.
    I guess I approached the issue in a way that could have backfired, though on this occasion, it did not. But I do not feel I was out of line to express my thoughts regarding punctuality. I will try to be more mindful of my irritability in the future and approach things with a little more tact, but I will continue to be honest when I see things that bother me.

    Also I should point out that, as always, communication on forums is not a perfect medium. I cannot explain everything without writing an absurdly long essay, and given the nature of an advice forum, I am naturally focusing on negatives or a particular part of a relationship. The vast majority of my interactions with Cathy are very good, whether it is in person or online.

    In addition, she is very different to Jane, I have not just replaced one co-dependent woman with another, she has also scolded me on an occasion in a way that Jane never did, to express dissatisfaction when I shared a picture of her (to my parents) that she deemed inappropriate. It wasn't that bad, but she is from a more conservative background, so I apologized for being inconsiderate and we moved on from it and enjoyed the rest of our evening together.

    My point is, I feel that we do have a relatively balanced relationship where we both feel able to express our thoughts. We have had mini-fights (in a way that Jane and I never did), but we have always communicated with maturity and moved on from them quickly and without further resentment.

    When I wrote my original post, I was still processing a very fresh conflict. Now in hindsight, I feel much more positive about how things are going. Things are not perfect, but it never is. There are things I need to do better on, that is what self-development is for.

    Thanks for everyone's input. Truly.

  11. #30
    Platinum Member DancingFool's Avatar
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    What strikes out at me is that you are very intent on the concept of "see it my way and understand that I'm right.", which is actually a form seeking validation from people around. Yes, it will affect you negatively socially as well as professionally. You have to learn to step back from that desire to prove and evaluate better if proving anything is worthwhile.

    It goes back to what I said earlier. Dating is a time to evaluate if a person is a good match for you. Expressing frustration is OK. Wanting for the person to change or taking their behavior as a personal affront is not OK. You job is to look at the person as they are and ask yourself if you can get along with them and all their flaws without feeling angry, irritated, or otherwise desiring to change them. If the answer is no, then you don't lecture them, you simply call it a day on that relationship.

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