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Saddening ENA reviews


firelily

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I just wish to remark, in passing, that I first came upon this forum in 2010. How fast the years go!

 

I can be away, for months on end, due to work/travel commitments. I have never once said that this is less than a very good forum. I hope that, maybe, I have helped, supported and even cheered up a few along the way.

 

I still say that the OP or any OP is entitled to open a thread.

 

I keep saying this: if a place (real or virtual) can't take a little criticism, warranted or not, from time to time, then what else can I say. Even the very best places get criticism sometimes. Not the end of the world.

 

May I just add that my door is always open (and there's a candle in the window) should anyone ever feel like PMing me. I promise you, I won't bite! lol

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My candid, non sarcastic explanation is this...

 

There have been many threads on this site (recently too) that follow the same pattern. OP posts an issue, usually something quite bizarre. The members take the time to read the thread, and offer help. The OP either refuses to listen to the advice yet continues to repeat the plea for help. The members get annoyed and offer advice without sugar coating. The OP either claims they are being ganged up on, or they insist they are NOT asking for advice. A day later (or sometimes the same day) the same OP creates another thread with the SAME story, usually under a different user name, in hopes of hearing what the want to....

 

So... for some of us, it gets old.

 

Yes, I've seen it at least once in a clear form and was sad for other advisors. It must suck that it happens so often here.

 

As far as I remember, I've also seen people here 1) OP post an issue, something pretty normal in human life, a situation that was born out of not 100% boundaries and self-knowledge for example, but no one is perfect, and a situation that is dealt with in a normal manner 2) Advisors concentrating their powers on unhealthy aspects of the situation, while there were so many healthy aspects to it, being quick to pass judgement, and confusing harshness for helping.

 

I'm pretty sure whoever enters this page extremely unsatisfied or depressed, it's a mixture of both of these problems. The question is what kind of mixture. But it's good to hear you guys are hopeful about it.

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I completely agree about accountability and responsibility. (re: post #118). I think I understand a little better where you're coming from, Firelily. You've repeated the concept about fragility several times in the thread here and that's where you and I differ. I don't see the majority of individuals partaking in the discussion as fragile - it doesn't cross my mind. There are instances where a person's posting style, thought process or material might suggest that there are mental health issues or some kind of emotional problems but the vast majority of members are fairly levelheaded and quite fair and open in their thoughts. I really haven't had a single bad experience with anyone here on ENA in this forum. Differences, yes. Some jousting and elbowing (similar to siblings poking each other in the backseat of a long drive), yes, but I can't say I have anything against anyone here and I respect those who give respect.

 

Most of all I'm very grateful that the forum is available for those who want to share thoughts or ideas or concepts. From you, I've learned that there is a predisposition in considering OPs as fragile (a premise). I see OPs as equals, as people just like me and if I came for answers I'd want to know the straight honest truth of how the situation appears. Of course not all the details are privy in a one-dimensional box or a wall of text but we take it for what it is.

 

The reason why I'm here is because I'm processing something in my personal life (loss of a loved one). I'd say the most difficult threads for me are those involving death and issues surrounding death or illness. If this is my fragile or weak spot, on any given day, I tend not to frequent threads that speak about those things. On the instances I have, I know I didn't react well. I'm still processing. But the fact that I tried and the forum challenged me and evoked that response out of me tells me that I'm not completely there. I know I'm not fragile in any sense of the word and that's why I keep trying to look at things from a different perspective. If it shakes me up, there's probably a reason. If it doesn't as your comments seem peculiar and different to me (you don't bother me, by the way), I'm still open to learn. I think bad often balances out with good if we're willing to look for it.

 

Thank you for understanding! But the thing is, OPs are not equals and they are fragile - not because of them in general but because of the position. We're not playing this football on neutral ground. We're playing on the field of person A's personal life, commenting on the most personal parts of it and their mental health often, while not revealing much about ourselves. Person A shares their utmost secrets and things they may be ashamed of, persons B, C, D and E share very little of themselves, opinions of A's situation, and also negative judgement about person's A not being completely "therapeuticized", for example. It's not an equal situation and if not treated with gentelness, person A might experience emotional costs after sharing their life here.

 

If people A-E met on a forum about politics or their stance on some general issue, and discussed something else or from equal position, they would be equals and none of them would be fragile.

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FL. Indeed there are people who are very vulnerable when arriving for help.

 

Don't we all have moments of vulnerability. Some deal better than others with bereavement and grief, and the inevitable sorrows that life is liable to visit upon us.

 

I lost my parents many years ago. I still miss them, and not a day goes by but I don't remember them. I've lost other very dearly loved people. There was one year when I seemed to be going to a funeral every other day.

I am grateful to the people who said the right (kindly) things to me at those times.

 

So yes, and not wishing to go round in circles, but there are and will be OPs presenting who have underlying mental health problems, which can become more or less evident as the thread progresses. They are different from the more robust or resilient poster who appears seeking some advice.

 

Just saying, that's all.

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Thank you for understanding! But the thing is, OPs are not equals and they are fragile - not because of them in general but because of the position. We're not playing this football on neutral ground. We're playing on the field of person A's personal life, commenting on the most personal parts of it and their mental health often, while not revealing much about ourselves. Person A shares their utmost secrets and things they may be ashamed of, persons B, C, D and E share very little of themselves, opinions of A's situation, and also negative judgement about person's A not being completely "therapeuticized", for example. It's not an equal situation and if not treated with gentelness, person A might experience emotional costs after sharing their life here.

 

If people A-E met on a forum about politics or their stance on some general issue, and discussed something else or from equal position, they would be equals and none of them would be fragile.

 

Yes and it is not the job of the advisors to be professionals who can discern fragility or particular mental health issues particularly from a stranger posting on the internet. Nor should the poster have that expectation. I think someone else posted that the standard should be not to intentionally be mean. Of course and that standard means that the person's fragility is kind of irrelevant because if the person commenting has no intention to be mean and the person posting nevertheless pushes a button/causes harm that's just the way it is on this kind of forum. So a person who won't be able to handle that kind of unintentional yet perceived as hurtful comment might not want to post about topics or situations to which he/she has such heightened sensitivity. And maybe that person will realize it later "I didn't know I felt so sensitive about that" and in that case might on reflection understand that he/she overreacted to a comment that was not intended to be hurtful. Especially since we're talking about typed words. And because this site is moderated more than most I know of that's another layer of protection.

 

I do not think it's fair to place that heavy a burden on a layperson's shoulders to do more than that when it's a stranger posting on a forum. It is why I don't think I've ever commented on a thread concerning suicide. I've experienced a close family member being suicidal and I know for sure I am not equipped to comment other than to give a phone number of a suicide hotline. I let others comment -and they do, thankfully - and that is my way of being helpful -by staying away so I don't unintentionally share something that makes it worse for the person.

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Agree. Also it happens that when certain posters don't like what they hear, they attack. They just want to dump on anyone they can and argue, then play victim. We've seen, "get off my thread!" from those types. So anyone commenting here takes an equal risk of being attacked by the "poor, fragile" individuals who post an issue here.

Yes and it is not the job of the advisors to be professionals who can discern fragility or particular mental health issues particularly from a stranger posting on the internet. Nor should the poster have that expectation.
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Ok, Figureitout :) In this thread I'd appreciate if you told me exactly what you wrote by the end - that your long personal experience as an OP is the opposite of my fears/impressions and that summing up all that you know, this place is a safe haven for many people and is definitely something good. I'd really appreciate that, just as I've been hearing to every piece of reassurance and positive personal opinions and taking it into account. This is why I've started this thread, to hear some opinions on the topics and make my clear vision of this place before I leave. If this is what you want to contribute to this post, you'd be more effective without focusing on my person and my dramatics and negativity and what not, because I said to you the same day "your comment suck" under other thread.

 

I honestly have no idea what you just said or what you asked me. Not being sarcastic or anything ( see no smiley faces ) I legit do not know what you are saying...

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Sometimes the "get therapy, you need help, just break up" is flippant. We're only human too.

 

Often, it is "this thread has run its course and the issues are too deep or complex for an anonymous online thread to have any impact".

 

And like you joined in 2017 to get practice for your training, a lot of people who post here are either practicing to try and help people for a living, or recently received help from this or another forum and are excited to share what they've received. So, well intentioned scholars who know enough to get in trouble (not saying this was you, but it's that category); and people who are still broken and see things through a certain lens.

 

We can't just moderate away people who mean well but often hurt instead of help. And that passion to help I think is one of the things that really stands out on this forum and is worth cultivating. The best we can do is for the more experienced posters to continue to lead by example.

 

Not every thread is going to go well, and if you do go into some kind of professional role in trying to help people, not every case is going to go well either. It's always worth seeing the reviews and considering if any changes should be made, but then some things can't easily be helped either.

 

FWIW I learned things here that I don't think I ever would have learned on my own about relationships (and other things). It's been invaluable. Some from my own postings - but most from reading everyone else's problems and how they handled them. I would give the site a great review.

 

I'd put my vote in to allow threads to be deleted within a grace period, maybe 24-48 hours. Sometimes people say what they don't mean to say, because they are in a compromised state of mind.

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Everyone who tries to help a stranger on the internet should feel responsible for the effect of their words on that person.
We are not responsible for how another reacts to the advice and or the opinion that was clearly asked for. If you know the way things usually go around here, it is the one's that don't like what they hear even if it is given with passion, empathy and kindness that are affected. We cannot be responsible for how they react and if they think that coming here to get validation is all they are going to get then they are the ones complaining on that review site. I will even go as far to say that they are all the same people in some cases using different names because their issues won't let them get over a posters truth to them.

It should be obvious.
so should what many of us are opining on here but you're not open to hearing any of it either. (not said with malice, just saying...

There are sites where people post about suicidal thoughts and people commenting to them, while no professionals, seem to be aware of their responsibility to gently direct them to professionals or gently offer them comfort.
That is because the very fact that they are contemplating suicide shows us that they are somehow mentally ill so we can clearly react accordingly. Its other poster that also have mental or other issues that they haven't disclosed where we may not be walking on eggshells when we tell them how we see it. I'm surprised you didn't see the difference in a thread about suicide and how its handled compared to other sub forums????

 

It is obvious that you're supposed to either say something that doesn't affect that person for worse, or say nothing at all. If this is so, why the same rule shouldn't work here, with people sharing their private troubles of their personal lives? You know what I'm trying to say, right? But I have trouble putting that to words.
Again, I'm surprised you don't see the difference... I've explained "why" the same rule can't work.

 

In spite of your critique about how we respond in general: All of us here have gotten thanks for our straight forward, non enabling advise far more than we have ever gotten criticized for it. In other words out of all of the posts that have been started here over the years, I'm troubled as to why you have such angst over a few bad reviews by unreliable sources.

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I've been reading with interest.

The replies here ..... it just reinforces for me why I love this place. So many smart, thoughtful, caring people. Plenty of differences in background, age, life experiences, personalities, beliefs. And in my experience, the backbone is the overall respect shown towards each other.

 

Yes, it's not perfection. That's alright. It's not cement, it's an ever changing place. It'll keep changing too. And some may prefer those changes, while others do not.

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We are not responsible for how another reacts to the advice and or the opinion that was clearly asked for. If you know the way things usually go around here, it is the one's that don't like what they hear even if it is given with passion, empathy and kindness that are affected. We cannot be responsible for how they react and if they think that coming here to get validation is all they are going to get then they are the ones complaining on that review site. I will even go as far to say that they are all the same people in some cases using different names because their issues won't let them get over a posters truth to them.

so should what many of us are opining on here but you're not open to hearing any of it either. (not said with malice, just saying...

That is because the very fact that they are contemplating suicide shows us that they are somehow mentally ill so we can clearly react accordingly. Its other poster that also have mental or other issues that they haven't disclosed where we may not be walking on eggshells when we tell them how we see it. I'm surprised you didn't see the difference in a thread about suicide and how its handled compared to other sub forums????

 

Again, I'm surprised you don't see the difference... I've explained "why" the same rule can't work.

 

In spite of your critique about how we respond in general: All of us here have gotten thanks for our straight forward, non enabling advise far more than we have ever gotten criticized for it. In other words out of all of the posts that have been started here over the years, I'm troubled as to why you have such angst over a few bad reviews by unreliable sources.

 

Thanks for sharing your views on this.

 

I think the reason why I'm so touched it's because I exprienced I kind of cognitive dissonance finding out that ENA got close to 1 star rating on these reviews sites with the % of negative reviews. The place seems imperfect but serving its use, and when you go to review pages you hear that this portal has a face of the monster pretending to be a helper, an accusation I never dismiss fast. I don't think assuming all negatives come from mentally disturbed people is the answer to solve the dissonance, but I'm closer to forming a multi-perspective opinion after this thread. That opinion would encompass:

 

- It's an imperfect place, with the stated problems being problems

- Overall, it's a positive force

- Majority of people feel better off coming here

- Some people feel worse coming here, which may be some mixture of their negative attitude and feeling genuinely hurt by getting snarkiness for vulnerability

- There are many people who do their best, considering their human limitations, and contribute in positive ways to the community

- There are some people who are not very open to self-critical reflection about this matter, but that's what generated the problem in the first place

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If you give advice outside "divorce him/her and see a professional" you will be bird-dogged by bitter divorces and marginalized.

Their methods encouraged me to explore other forums, which I found exciting and who did not suppress.

 

Enotalone seems determined to be the whatever forum. :icon_sad:

 

Too bad!

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I've been reading with interest.

The replies here ..... it just reinforces for me why I love this place. So many smart, thoughtful, caring people. Plenty of differences in background, age, life experiences, personalities, beliefs. And in my experience, the backbone is the overall respect shown towards each other.

 

Yes, it's not perfection. That's alright. It's not cement, it's an ever changing place. It'll keep changing too. And some may prefer those changes, while others do not.

 

Same here. It reminds me of some friends of mine who never read internet reviews of their work (creative work mostly) for the reasons some brought up in this thread. I glanced for two seconds at the results of a google search -two seconds -and realized it would be counterproductive - this thread is making me feel even more protective of this wonderful forum I love and have supported.

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It is interesting that this thread started out as a gratuitous gripe session, dressed up as tragic and replete with a built in judge and jury of internet reviews. Then was spun as if a public service announcement and warning about how bad ena 'really' is. Then spun as a meeting to improve things, specifically hoping for a gag order on posters who recommend therapy or breaking up. Then spun as a professional learning experience. But now the verdict is 'limited humans' are allowed to have freedom of speech after all?

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It is interesting that this thread started out as a gratuitous gripe session, dressed up as tragic and replete with a built in judge and jury of internet reviews. Then was spun as if a public service announcement and warning about how bad ena 'really' is. Then spun as a meeting to improve things, specifically hoping for a gag order on posters who recommend therapy or breaking up. Then spun as a professional learning experience. But now the verdict is 'limited humans' are allowed to have freedom of speech after all?

 

I'm not sure where freedom of speech comes in. It's an internet forum that is moderated. People are free to type posts and respond to posts as long as the forum rules are followed. People are free not to post or contribute too. I don't and won't give professional advice even if my profession (whatever profession, I mean, generally) was consistent with the advice being asked for. I'm not limited in that sense -I simply know what I know and more importantly know what I don't know. So I share what I know -or genuinely believe I know - that I think will help, contribute, support, maybe make someone laugh or see the world differently -maybe - and what I know has nothing to do with any professional knowledge. I could see joining a forum geared to professional knowledge I might have. I personally wouldn't be interested and I wouldn't be interested in ENA if this was a site for professional knowledge. But that doesn't make me a limited human and it doesn't mean I have more or less "freedom of speech".

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Thanks for sharing your views on this.

 

I think the reason why I'm so touched it's because I exprienced I kind of cognitive dissonance finding out that ENA got close to 1 star rating on these reviews sites with the % of negative reviews.

There were only like four or five reviews though... Perhaps we forum members should all go over to the review page and give a more accurate representation about this site and explaining how the board has helped a hella lot more people then what is represented in the current reviews. Would that calm you more to read many good reviews? Most people who are grateful for the help don't go out of their way to post about it. I would be more in step with the amount of angst you feel about this if Enotalone had a "How Helpful Were The Responses To Your Thread" section at the end of each Opened thread and the reviews were mostly bad. Until then, perhaps you would do well to assume the best rather than focus on the reviews of a separate site that most people didn't even know about until you started this thread.

 

The place seems imperfect but serving its use,
Yes, just like anything that can be reviewed.

and when you go to review pages you hear that this portal has a face of the monster pretending to be a helper,
Really? Its hardly that gruesome and as previously suggested you take the few criticisms with a grain of salt. I quick cross reference from those reviews back to the site will quickly show you that you needn't worry the way you have been. No need to even be "saddened" by such reviews. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Even in professional practice.

I don't think assuming all negatives come from mentally disturbed people is the answer to solve the dissonance,
Well, no one said that all of the reviews are from mentally disturbed people... And I don't think that you should be taking a few bad critiques with such distress. The most putrid of the reviews comes from a person that clearly took offence to a posters opinion of her situation, she was apologised to for that opinion yet still couldn't just let it go. That, IMO is someone with some sort of issue if they can't let go the opinion of a stranger on the internet that can only go by what was shared in a opening post. The person she critiqued has helped many people with her never enabling advice. Same with the other person mentioned and there was no "monster" in their deliveries... only genuine attempts for the opening poster to get out of her own head and through to the other side of her tunnel vision of victimhood. The rest of the reviews were about not being able to delete threads and those that don't like to have to comply to certain rules of the site.

 

but I'm closer to forming a multi-perspective opinion after this thread.
Glad to hear it.
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I think the purpose of this forum is to try -to try -to be a support/help for people who need advice. Emphasis on try. That is the goal. So if it doesn't help a particular person that person can choose not to post again. I never even knew there were reviews and it never occurred to me to check -even when I felt hurt by certain posts - and hurt even when the posts had nothing to do with me -just found them hurtful/offensive against others. But I know my recourse is to report if that's appropriate, to take a break, to PM the person if appropriate, and it never occurred to me to post a review even though I've posted reviews of restaurants, hotels, products, stores. Sure if someone wants to review ENA have at it -just never occurred to me to handle any negative experiences by reading reviews or posting one.

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Just to be clear, what is the sample size of these reviews? Five? Fifteen? I go back to the dinner party metaphor, because I really think this site is far more like a dinner party than, say, a therapist's office.

 

Fifteen people sit around the table. You are bound to not like them all, or be liked by all, and there is always that one person who tells the story of how a vacation was ruined because a waiter brought the wrong cocktail at the airport lounge before the plane even took off for Italy. Yeah, the Ritz was fine, and Florence was pretty, but that idiot waiter—dude ruined it. And that person, when he talks about the dinner party? He talks about how the asparagus was overcooked and how no one let him say that thing he wanted to say. If only he had a forum in which to review that party, because you should see his takedown of the tape dispenser he ordered from Amazon. Scathing stuff.

 

Meanwhile, the other 14 people had a good night. Some are now texting each other, some are happy to be done with each other. Others go home to finish their taxes, self-satisfied with the tape dispenser they bought after reading a scathing Amazon review of another they were considering. Go figure. Small, curious world.

 

I don't mean to sound flip, but that's more or less what I see here, weekly, and more or less how I see reviews of anything: movies, books, websites, subconsciouses. Some people don't like the things I like. Some people don't like me. Does that mean I should stop liking that book, stop liking me? I hope not! Different means of getting by. Personally, I think you show true respect to those reviews, and the people who wrote them, by not giving them too much weight, meaning you don't let them shatter your own scales. Hey, opinion—I see you, I hear you, I appreciate you, but I'm not going to reframe my life around you.

 

Kind of like what people do here, every day, best I can see.

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I love anchovies. I love them on pizza. I ask for extra anchovies on my Caesar salad. Yummy.

 

No one else I know likes anchovies. They hate them. They say terrible things about them, calling them disgusting, gross, sickening, some even claim they made them sick.

 

I continue to eat and love anchovies. I don't let the "negative reviews" stop me.

 

And I'm sure some negative reviews will not shut down this site or cause it to make radical posting rules like removing posts that are arbitrarily deemed to be "unkind" or "harsh".

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