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This is hurting more than I thought it would.


MirrorKnight

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I guess I am writing here as an outlet more than asking for advice at this point, and perhaps just trying to understand why I feel the way I do right now.

 

Very short recap for those who don't know the context...

 

I broke up recently with my girlfriend of 18 months because I was unhappy in our relationship. I loved her, I think I still do, and she loves me very much, but we were not happy together, and frankly, she was getting in the way of my personal aspirations and dreams of becoming a better version of myself. We had a co-dependent relationship where she clung onto me and I enabled such a behaviour because it partly assuaged my own insecurities about feeling loved and needed.

 

It has been very hard, but I have finally cut the cord (mostly). This is the first time I have broken up with anybody in my life. Two girlfriends have broken up with me in the past and I have had two significant crushes ultimately reject my courtship. None of those situations are anywhere near as painful as this breakup, which is surprising given that I initiated it and pushed it through. It is genuinely surprising me how hard it has been for me.

 

I think there are three main reasons why I feel so awful...

 

1) Guilt: Jane is probably the nicest person I will ever know. Nice and kind to a fault, always puts others ahead of herself, does not want to let anyone down, avoids confrontations etc... My rational brain is telling me that some of that niceness really is a fault, arising from low self-esteem and insecurities, but she is as close to a paragon of kindness and innocence as I have known outside of fiction. I feel so guilty that I have caused so much pain to such a fundamentally good person. I feel like a villain in Jane's Disney story.

 

I am also feel guilty about my reasons for breaking up, my reasons for feeling unhappy in our relationship. Yes I can point to the fact that our life goals, outlook and lifestyles are incompatible, yes I feel that she would have been miserable if she did end up making fundamental sacrifices just in order to save our relationship and I would have been miserable and resentful if I felt that she had held me back in life...

 

BUT I cannot hide from the shallower reasons that I wanted a younger and more attractive partner, for my sexual desires, ego and a more suitable mother for the children that I want to eventually have. I find it shameful that I can be so shallow, but it would be dishonest of me to deny these factors played a part in my decision.

 

I cherish the good times I had with Jane, the wonderful memories, but at this point, I wish I never asked her out and inadvertently turned her life upside down and caused her so much pain and misery. I am so so sorry.

 

2) Loss: I do not have many friends, I have always moved around so much that I have never really had a close circle of friends who I would hang out with regularly. For the last 18 months Jane has been the one constant in my life, the one person who said "good morning" and "goodnight" every single day, the one person who made me feel loved and appreciated. Yes Jane's love was suffocating and clingy, it literally felt like I was drowning in it sometimes... but when I see that she has changed her profile picture (that used to be a pic of both of us) on Discord, when I realize that she will not be in my life on a daily basis anymore, when I realize that I will not know what is going on with her in the future... That presence is gone. It is hard. It feels like I have torn out a piece of myself in pushing through with this breakup.

 

3) Fear: I am afraid that I will never find anybody who will make me happy. I am 31 years old and my life has mostly been a story of wasted potential and lost opportunities. I already had a beautiful and kind partner, but whom I decided that I cannot be happy with for reasons mentioned above. I do not believe in that fairy tale that there is "somebody for everybody". I am rationally afraid that I will never find anyone who ticks all the boxes for me. I might be able to find younger/prettier/healthier... but will she have Jane's kindness? Will I end up settling on somebody I do not really love just to tick aspiration goals? Or end up alone and childless anyway? Honestly, I am scared.

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You have "dumper's remorse". Not all that unusual.

 

What I recommend is you reflect on how the rest of your life would have been if you stayed with Jane. Does the idea of being with her forever fill you with a loving glow, or does it seem more like a life sentence?

 

If you reconciled she would still be clingy and dependent, she would still be older (and heavy...you mentioned her weight before), and she would still have unhealthy family dynamics.

 

If those things are now OK with you, then maybe in a few weeks time you can consider reconciling. But if they are still deal breakers you made the right decision.

 

Whatever you do, please do NOT keep her on a string while you decide. The kindest thing to do would be to let her go 100%, stop thinking she "needs" you to run her life for her, and do not "check in" with her every so often. Make it a clean break, at least until your mind is clear.

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You have "dumper's remorse". Not all that unusual.

 

What I recommend is you reflect on how the rest of your life would have been if you stayed with Jane. Does the idea of being with her forever fill you with a loving glow, or does it seem more like a life sentence?

 

If you reconciled she would still be clingy and dependent, she would still be older (and heavy...you mentioned her weight before), and she would still have unhealthy family dynamics.

 

If those things are now OK with you, then maybe in a few weeks time you can consider reconciling. But if they are still deal breakers you made the right decision.

 

Whatever you do, please do NOT keep her on a string while you decide. The kindest thing to do would be to let her go 100%, stop thinking she "needs" you to run her life for her, and do not "check in" with her every so often. Make it a clean break, at least until your mind is clear.

 

Staying with Jane would not be a "loving glow" nor "life sentence"... More like "settling"... surrendering my dreams and accepting mediocrity and "normalcy", partly because she does not support or encourage my ambitions, and I think she would enable the lazy and unmotivated aspect of my personality that I am trying to eliminate. Jane has told me that I am broken because I am unhappy with a life that most people are perfectly content with. I guess she is right in some respects, but that's another issue entirely.

 

She's not really "heavy"... perfectly healthy BMI and got the curves most Western guys probably prefer over slimmer girls. I find slim girls more attractive, but that is not a deal-breaker in itself. Physically I am more concerned with her age and health.

 

And yes I am not stringing her along. I have stopped the daily communications and kept what communications we do have to just short functional chats. (Because she still lives at my house in the UK).

 

I am not going to relent on my decision. I have gone too far to go back.

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As Billy Joel's lyrics say, "I've seen the best of you, and now I need the rest of you." She suppressed her own needs, being a people pleaser, and so you would never know her authentic self.

 

With each relationship, you will learn what you want and what you don't want in a lifetime partner. Suffice it to say, it's a rotten thing to stay with someone you feel you're settling for because you fear a woman doesn't exist who would tick all of your boxes. So you've done the right thing by breaking up.

 

It's not easy to find someone you share chemistry with and share the same life goals and relationship boundaries with, but certainly is not a miracle. Hasn't that happened for many of your relatives and friends?

 

Make a must-have list and dealbreaker list moving forward and stick to it. When you makes goals for yourself and put effort forth in achieving something, you're bound to achieve it, especially at your young age.

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BUT I cannot hide from the shallower reasons that I wanted a younger and more attractive partner, for my sexual desires, ego and a more suitable mother for the children that I want to eventually have. I find it shameful that I can be so shallow, but it would be dishonest of me to deny these factors played a part in my decision.

 

I assume you have already met this person.

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Good job. It's a good time to remember to take care of your health and stick to your other commitments. I became a lot more involved in work and other areas when I left my ex. It helped keep up my momentum and it didn't slow me down. I'd try to just see things in bare bones: you were in a relationship and now it's over. You knew someone and now you know of someone. Let it go. Onwards and forwards. Difficult for the time being but not impossible.

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Well you are simply not in love with her. Sounds like you care for her and maybe love her as a friend and companion, but if you truly loved her romantically you would not be looking elsewhere. When you love someone, you think they're great, their body is great, you see a future with them. You're probably not that attracted to her body because you're not in love with her personality either. Just because someone's really nice and kind doesn't mean you have to settle. There are many people that are nice and kind out there but not everyone is the right person for you.

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MirrorKnight, Your story resonates with me because my loved ones in my family tree recently experienced what you're currently going through. I'm sorry for your hurts and pained heart.

 

People have to be very lucky and fortunate to get it right the first time by meeting their permanent "thee one" girlfriend / fiance / wife / husband. However, many people have to go through several people in order to settle down with "thee one" who checks all their boxes. Many people are not lucky in love the first few times and it's not unheard of to go through many women until you hit the jackpot. 'It's life' as complete strangers have told me at local stores whenever I've aired my grievances regarding this subject.

 

Regarding guilt, guilt comes now or later; it doesn't matter. Transform your guilt into thoughts of prevention. You ended it now as opposed to prolonging the inevitable which would've resulted in breakup sooner or later. Sooner is better than later. Sooner means you give her the chance to move on faster, find someone else, perhaps marry, have children, settle down and bring her hopes and dreams to fruition. The sooner both of you put this behind both of you, the better. It's better to get any breakup over and done with instead of dragging it out unnecessarily.

 

You may think your reasons are shallow, however, you won't be happy and satisfied if you grudgingly accept a person against your will. It's better to cut ties off now than deal with a worse, acrimonious breakup later or worse yet, a nasty, messy, complicated divorce as millions of people can attest.

 

You have a conscience if you feel guilty. I despise those who possess zero feelings of remorse, continue to feel arrogant, smug and act like an ignorant jerk. You are not. I commend you for feeling guilty. All you can do with your guilt is use it to navigate yourself wisely in the future, become extra empathetic and remain cautious in all you do, say, write, act. If you feel you've made a hot mess of things, pay it forward by doing better in the future. Tread lightly and proceed with utmost caution. Be kind to others and yourself.

 

Life is an education. You learn from it and your past mistakes. You become smarter and more shrewd.

 

In order to have friends, you have to be a friend to one or many. They won't flock nor gravitate to you if you simply wish your life away. You have to put yourself out there and prove your worthiness if you want a friend or friends. Join groups, clubs, organizations, anything where you can relate whether it's sports, fitness, excursions, academics / intellectual pursuits, book clubs, hobbies, cooking / dining, etc.

 

You're only 31 years old, MirrorKnight. You're still young for heaven's sake!

 

There is such thing as a fairy tale because I'm living proof of it. I met and married the first and only love of my life when I was only 22 years old. We have 2 amazing sons. I come from a very painful past childhood, teen years and young adulthood. My life is a heck of a lot better than where I came from. I can tell you that much for sure.

 

Your story is not the same as mine. It's a great big world out there and she is out there for you. You just have to be lucky and be at the right place at the right time. It will happen. Don't give up hope. There are plenty of ladies out there who have a world of kindness to give you with all their heart and soul. You must remain patient and know where to find them. They're not at singles bars nor out clubbing. Go where they are. They're at church, perhaps volunteering in their community, furthering their education and careers, taking care of their health & fitness, immersed in their interests, hobbies and the like.

 

Don't be scared. Don't think so negatively and all doom and gloom. It's not the end of the world. Have the power of positive thinking. Tomorrow is a new day with new opportunities for you. Don't wallow in your misery. Take action to make your life better. Focus on self improvement and you will attract women to you like bees to honey.

 

I've observed men and women who don't have to try so hard to attract the opposite gender if they're secure with themselves. There is nothing more attractive than self confidence, humility, empathy and security. Everything else is gravy.

 

You will get through this and your day in the sun will come. Hang in there. You will be all right. Chin up. Carry on. It will get better. Don't give up. Be proactive.

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I assume you have already met this person.

 

Not really. Yes I met somebody who turned my head (Cathy), but I kept my distance whilst I was involved with Jane. Since the breakup I have not been in the mood to contact Cathy again. That ship has probably sailed.

 

It's not easy to find someone you share chemistry with and share the same life goals and relationship boundaries with, but certainly is not a miracle. Hasn't that happened for many of your relatives and friends?

 

I am that awful combination of being mediocre myself, a hopeless romantic and brutally realistic all at the same time. I want it all even though I am not good enough to have a queue of girls lining up for me, or frankly deserve it. Yes plenty of my friends and family are in loving and committed relationships, but I think some of them have "settled", which is a horrible thing to think about your friend's relationship. I do think I have unrealistically high selection criteria, so I think the fear that I will end up either settling or remaining single and alone is objectively quite valid and rational.

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Sorry you're hurting.

 

Anyone with a heart—which is to say anyone not on the sociopathic/psychopathic spectrum—is going to feel some version of what you're feeling right now after a breakup. So past the guilt and the specifics here, try to remember this: you have a heart, and the hurt you feel is a reflection of its power and tenderness. You're allowed to feel these things while also knowing you've made the right choice. You're allowed to question that choice, too, while trusting that those questions get answered in time, and by moving forward, not by staying still or moving backward.

 

You are, as others have said, quite young. And past everything being stirred right now, I do hope you can see what you are not. That depressed, wayward guy you were in your 20s? That is not who you are today and I hope this juncture can be about seeing who you actually are. At the start of your 30s, you've shed that chapter—and, perhaps, this breakup is in ways the final shedding. That Jane sees you as "broken," that you are willing to entertain that self-conception while also seeing her as "broken"—well, all that should go a long way toward reminding you that you've made the right choice.

 

You own a home in a major city. You have a job that has sent you across the world. You have dreams and ambitions that aren't pipe dreams, but things you can attain, are attaining. Those are the hard facts of your present life, along with this heartache, facts that just about anyone would consider ahead of the curve for someone your age—but made blurry to you by your journey, your past. I do hope they become clear to you. That clarity, I think, will go a long way toward leading you toward the kind of connection you need, want, and deserve. None of that is shallow. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

Yes, the fantasy many of us have is that we only have one big relationship, or perhaps that we have certain things (this much money, this many kids) by a certain age. It's a fantasy few live. The rest of us have a few relationships that teach us two things—what we want and what we don't want—while life delivers the continual lesson that it is always messier than we know, and all the more spectacular for being that way.

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My best friend wanted to marry fairly young and have kids right away. I wanted to be free and single, travel, never marry and MAYBE have one kid some day. Guess which one of married and had kids fairly young?

 

We both are paths we didn't plan on. We got married (her later than she had wanted, me when I HADN'T "wanted") and are mothers. She is currently starting over after a painful divorce, I divorced nearly 20 years ago and have forged my own path since. Different roads leading to similar places. Her new adventure is beginning. I like being on my own and doing my own thing, she is getting used to doing so.

 

My point is (as Blue said), just because life doesn't exactly follow the script we wrote doesn't mean anything went wrong. We're just getting there a different way, or are heading to a different destination than we originally thought.

 

Same with Jane. She now has the opportunity to build the life she wants. Maybe you think she can't get there without your guidance but you can't know that. She just might do just fine, you know.

 

Who knows what's around the corner? Isn't it exciting??

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Which parts of your selection criteria do you think is unrealistic?

 

It is going to come across really shallow if I spell it out... but I guess it is a bit silly to worry about the judgement of people on the internet.

 

My ideal woman (in no particular order) and how Jane fared as an example: (Deal-breaker => Concerns => Acceptable => Perfect)

 

1) Kind

 

Somebody empathetic, compassionate, loving. Not self-centered, selfish or mean-spirited. How do they treat people they do not need to treat well vs people they need to appease? How do they treat their friends and family?

 

Jane: Perfect

 

2) Physically attractive.

 

This seems obvious, but I think my definition is harsher than most guys. I am physically attracted to perhaps only 25% of women in the appropriate age range and I would regard only perhaps 5-10% as "beautiful". Ideally I want a partner in that top 10%, but I am not a top 10% guy, so realistically, they are out of my league.

 

I'm not that shallow that I would only date top 10% though. I would be perfectly happy with any woman as long as there was a sufficient degree of attraction.

 

Jane: Acceptable

 

3) Tall

 

I am short (172cm) for a guy, it sucks to be short. If I have children, I would like them to be taller than me (if boys). Correct a genetic weakness within myself so to speak. I also generally find tall girls more physically attractive, though ideally not taller than me. Given my shortness, that leaves me with a rather awkwardly narrow range of height for ideal partners (165cm-171cm).

 

Jane: Perfect

 

4) Healthy

 

I am not blessed with physical fitness. It's not awful, but I have various niggling issues like short sightness, acne, poor aerobic fitness. I am super jealous of people who can run for miles with minimal effort, great skin without any special treatment... you know, those lucky people. Again, if I have children, I would ideally like to correct some of my genetic weaknesses.

 

Jane: Concerns (did not know to begin with)

 

5) Positive

 

I struggled with serious depression in my 20s. I am scared of relapse. I can sometimes be cynical and lack energy, so I want to be around people who radiate positive energy. You know when you go somewhere new with somebody and the positive person loves every new experience, appreciate the beauty and joy in the mundane and everyday, whilst the negative person complains about the weather, food, etc...

 

Jane: Perfect to begin with, dropped towards "Concerns".

 

6) "True Love"

 

Not sure how to define this. What I mean is that in the ideal world, I want to be "in love" with somebody for who they are and for them for love me for who I am, not what they can do for me or what I can do for them. Yes it looks like I am treating the search for love like an economics question solving for cost-benefit equations and opportunity costs... but I am actually a hopeless romantic who wants "the real deal" instead of settling for a partner or for somebody to settle for me.

 

Jane: Perfect

 

Those were my 6 main criteria when I met Jane. You can see why I was thrilled with her at the beginning, even knowing the potential issues with our age gap, I wanted to give the relationship a real chance to work.

 

Through my experience with Jane, I guess I have to add a 7th criteria.

 

7) Compatibility

 

You can have "true love" and tick most of the above, but if two people have fundamentally different goals in life, the relationship is still going to be miserable.

 

Jane: Deal-breaker

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It is going to come across really shallow if I spell it out... but I guess it is a bit silly to worry about the judgement of people on the internet.

 

My ideal woman (in no particular order) and how Jane fared as an example: (Deal-breaker => Concerns => Acceptable => Perfect)

 

1) Kind

 

Somebody empathetic, compassionate, loving. Not self-centered, selfish or mean-spirited. How do they treat people they do not need to treat well vs people they need to appease? How do they treat their friends and family?

 

Jane: Perfect

 

2) Physically attractive.

 

This seems obvious, but I think my definition is harsher than most guys. I am physically attracted to perhaps only 25% of women in the appropriate age range and I would regard only perhaps 5-10% as "beautiful". Ideally I want a partner in that top 10%, but I am not a top 10% guy, so realistically, they are out of my league.

 

I'm not that shallow that I would only date top 10% though. I would be perfectly happy with any woman as long as there was a sufficient degree of attraction.

 

Jane: Acceptable

 

3) Tall

 

I am short (172cm) for a guy, it sucks to be short. If I have children, I would like them to be taller than me (if boys). Correct a genetic weakness within myself so to speak. I also generally find tall girls more physically attractive, though ideally not taller than me. Given my shortness, that leaves me with a rather awkwardly narrow range of height for ideal partners (165cm-171cm).

 

Jane: Perfect

 

4) Healthy

 

I am not blessed with physical fitness. It's not awful, but I have various niggling issues like short sightness, acne, poor aerobic fitness. I am super jealous of people who can run for miles with minimal effort, great skin without any special treatment... you know, those lucky people. Again, if I have children, I would ideally like to correct some of my genetic weaknesses.

 

Jane: Concerns (did not know to begin with)

 

5) Positive

 

I struggled with serious depression in my 20s. I am scared of relapse. I can sometimes be cynical and lack energy, so I want to be around people who radiate positive energy. You know when you go somewhere new with somebody and the positive person loves every new experience, appreciate the beauty and joy in the mundane and everyday, whilst the negative person complains about the weather, food, etc...

 

Jane: Perfect to begin with, dropped towards "Concerns".

 

6) "True Love"

 

Not sure how to define this. What I mean is that in the ideal world, I want to be "in love" with somebody for who they are and for them for love me for who I am, not what they can do for me or what I can do for them. Yes it looks like I am treating the search for love like an economics question solving for cost-benefit equations and opportunity costs... but I am actually a hopeless romantic who wants "the real deal" instead of settling for a partner or for somebody to settle for me.

 

Jane: Perfect

 

Those were my 6 main criteria when I met Jane. You can see why I was thrilled with her at the beginning, even knowing the potential issues with our age gap, I wanted to give the relationship a real chance to work.

 

Through my experience with Jane, I guess I have to add a 7th criteria.

 

7) Compatibility

 

You can have "true love" and tick most of the above, but if two people have fundamentally different goals in life, the relationship is still going to be miserable.

 

Jane: Deal-breaker

 

Well, I think these expectations are for the most part realistic and not shallow. But I would maybe advise to try to channel your expectations and criteria more so towards personality, behaviour, goals and values, rather than looks. Of course you can't force yourself to be attracted to women you're just not attracted to, but sometimes attraction is not only physical but also emotional and mental. So maybe if you give some women a chance who are not exactly your physical type and there is spark and connection there, it could still work.

 

You've mentioned before that you like skinny/slim women, you want them to be tall and pretty. Well no offence but you're kind of talking about a catwalk model there. Plus on top of that you want them to possess all the other things you mentioned and for three to be spark and love. I do think you may be asking too much regarding looks in that sense.

 

If you're not a model yourself, you have acne, you had depression and you want your girlfriend to accept this, you also need to accept imperfections in her too. My best friend is very slim and fit, tall and beautiful and also financially successful and nice. She gets hundreds of guys after her. If this is your standard then I just don't think you're going to win the girl. Girls you describe have many options and you'd have a lot of competition. If you want true love and a relationship of substance, it's better to be realistic.

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I find it interesting that you're trying to find a woman who will "improve" your gene pool, so to speak.

 

It does sound like you're looking for more of a breeding mare. I get that "kind" is your number one criteria, but the rest seems to have to do with breeding potential. Compatibility and true love are below the physical characteristics.

 

I'm curious to know if you'd reveal this to potential dates or just kind of keep it on the down low.

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I find it interesting that you're trying to find a woman who will "improve" your gene pool, so to speak.

 

It does sound like you're looking for more of a breeding mare. I get that "kind" is your number one criteria, but the rest seems to have to do with breeding potential. Compatibility and true love are below the physical characteristics.

 

I'm curious to know if you'd reveal this to potential dates or just kind of keep it on the down low.

 

I did write "in no particular order" above my list. If you pushed me for an order, it would probably be:

 

1) Kindness

2) Compatibility

3) Attractiveness

4) Height

5) Healthy

6) True Love

7) Positive

 

The top 3 probably stand out from the bottom 4, whose positions are somewhat interchangeable.

 

I think it is a little harsh to say I am looking for a breeding mare... it's more that if my life works out well, I would ideally like to have children, so I do not seek relationships with women who I would not consider possibly having a family with if things worked out. For example I have met a girl (in the past) who potentially ticked all the above except height... I could have had a fun and enjoyable relationship with her, but I would not want to have children with her, so why waste her time and mine?

 

Why do I care so much about "breeding potential" as you call it? I guess because I believe that I should not bring life into this world unless I can provide reasonable odds of a good quality of life. It might be a bit of a bleak world view, but if my entire life is struggle and misery, I would prefer not to have lived at all.

 

If there comes a day when I decide that I cannot support a child with the life that I think I ought to provide, I will probably drop Height and Healthy from the above criteria and just choose not to have children at all.

 

Oh yeah, I do not list these criteria with people I date, obviously that would not come across well in most circumstances.

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So if a woman is short you won't have a child with her because he might be shorter than average? Our son is shorter than average. We're both short. Does he like that? Nope. But you know what, life is full of situations where you're going to have to face challenges because of differences -maybe you learn differently, have problem hair, a large nose (and no inclination to do plastic surgery) or ears that stick out like your dads, bad teeth, etc. Some things can be controlled others not so much. My son has great posture like me -so we both appear taller than we are. Not sure it's genetic or coincidence but it's true.

I'm glad you're rethinking your height restriction.

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I did write "in no particular order" above my list. If you pushed me for an order, it would probably be:

 

1) Kindness

2) Compatibility

3) Attractiveness

4) Height

5) Healthy

6) True Love

7) Positive

 

The top 3 probably stand out from the bottom 4, whose positions are somewhat interchangeable.

 

I think it is a little harsh to say I am looking for a breeding mare... it's more that if my life works out well, I would ideally like to have children, so I do not seek relationships with women who I would not consider possibly having a family with if things worked out. For example I have met a girl (in the past) who potentially ticked all the above except height... I could have had a fun and enjoyable relationship with her, but I would not want to have children with her, so why waste her time and mine?

 

Why do I care so much about "breeding potential" as you call it? I guess because I believe that I should not bring life into this world unless I can provide reasonable odds of a good quality of life. It might be a bit of a bleak world view, but if my entire life is struggle and misery, I would prefer not to have lived at all.

 

If there comes a day when I decide that I cannot support a child with the life that I think I ought to provide, I will probably drop Height and Healthy from the above criteria and just choose not to have children at all.

 

Oh yeah, I do not list these criteria with people I date, obviously that would not come across well in most circumstances.

 

Well the problem is that you have shallow ideas. Maybe they're not deliberate and more subconscious and I can see you mean well for your future child. But your relationship ideas and ideas about children are ruled by shallow beliefs. You already don't think your child would be good enough because they're shorter and you would reject a shorter woman for that reason. You said literally only her height would be the reason to not pursue the relationship. I'm sorry, what?

 

Why do you only place value on yourself, your partner, your child based on physical characteristics alone? And we are not talking about being disfigured here, we are simply talking about being shorter or having pimples. EVERYONE has flaws. Even people who are a model have them, but we don't see them because they wear certain clothes and make-up and often photos are airbrushed.

 

I think you have an unhealthy way of thinking which may harm your relationships and even children. Everyone is valuable and especially more for their talents and inner qualities, rather than looks. If you do end up with a child with some flaws, I certainly hope you won't let it show because it could really diminish their self-esteem.

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6) "True Love"

 

Not sure how to define this. What I mean is that in the ideal world, I want to be "in love" with somebody for who they are and for them for love me for who I am, not what they can do for me or what I can do for them. Yes it looks like I am treating the search for love like an economics question solving for cost-benefit equations and opportunity costs... but I am actually a hopeless romantic who wants "the real deal" instead of settling for a partner or for somebody to settle for me.

 

Jane: Perfect

 

Departing from the above for a moment—while hoping you're listening to these very wise women—I wanted to make a quick observation here. From what you've written, both you and Jane shared something in common: neither of you accepted the other for who they are. Past the height/weight stuff, along with the health/age stuff, you wanted Jane to be more self-sufficient, less dependent on you and others, and more self-possessed, among other things. She, meanwhile, wanted you to be, I don't know, happier with life "as is" rather than so focused on what it "could be."

 

So maybe not the "perfect" paradigm, or texture of "true love," that you want to be placing atop the pedestal as you move forward.

 

Point being, it is far from "hopelessly romantic" to want the "real deal" that you described: someone you can be yourself around, and vise versa, with love blossoming from that. I'd call that a good baseline—not a moonshot. What makes it seem "hopeless," aside from being in a vulnerable place at present, is that it is really, really hard to inhabit ourselves. It takes work. It takes time—a kind of forever journey that clicks into place for all of us at different speeds. And until we inhabit a pretty decent percentage of ourselves, we're likely to gravitate toward people who either (a) reflect back only the parts of ourselves we accept or (b) reflect back some aspirational version of ourselves we hope to inhabit.

 

Which, well, kind of circles back to the discussion unfolding. You are taking something of an aspirational view here—talking about women, and even potential children with women, as variables in an experiment that elevates your own standing in your head. There are real limits to that. Hard to really accept someone, be it a partner or progeny, if you don't accept yourself first—making the baseline a moonshot, and certain depths inaccessible from the shallows.

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Even with what you perceive as good breeding potential there are no guarantees.

 

I went to school with a set of twin girls who were unfortunate looking. Bad skin, just unattractive faces and large (tall and husky, would never, ever be a size 6). Their parents were THAT couple in high school...the two most attractive people in school. No idea why that happened, but genetics are tricky.

 

Also, my ex husband is tall. He is 6'2", his two older brothers are 6'3" and 6'4". His sister is 5'9". His younger brother? 5'7". Why that happened? Again, genetics are a crap shoot and there are no guarantees that a tall woman will produce tall children.

 

My ex husband and I are not the prettiest people in the room. We're average. Our kids? Beautiful creatures. And it's not just us thinking so. We'd get stopped in stores, at the post office, at restaurants by strangers admiring our kids. We even had one person say "how did the two of you produce THEM???" They are tall (I am short...5'2" on a good day), our son is 6'4" (wishes he were shorter, go figure) and our daughter is 5'9" (wishes she were shorter, again go figure).

 

Your children may inherit your lack of height, your bad skin...again, no guarantees.

 

I think it's a shame you'd pass up a wonderful woman just because she might not produce children whose height you'd find acceptable. But what would you do if you married a 5'10" woman and your son turns out to be 5'8" and you have a daughter who's 6'? I have to believe you'd love them anyway, but would you be disappointed?

 

Oh well...you gotta do what makes you happy.

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If you have children, even if you don't voice that you're disappointed that your son isn't taller than you by age 16, or that your daughter has spina bifida and will never be able to walk like her parents and brother, or they possess any other flaw you consider genetically unpleasing, they will sense your disappointment and feel like your approval will always be out of reach.

 

If you're wanting children in order to raise your self esteem and showcase to other people how you've mixed what you consider mediocre genes with top shelf genes and therefore created offspring with a superior appearance, then you're having children for the wrong reasons. (OMG, typing that reminded me of the Aryan Race ideology)

 

Some of your must-haves are realistic, but this one about the offspring makes me think you could benefit from some therapy because it's not your average thought process, and that mindset would be harmful to any child you bring into this world.

 

Finding who you find attractive is inherent and nothing you can choose, but you're placing limitations on yourself with your stringent criteria of height and looks which relate back to what your offspring will look like if you pair with a particular lady, which is really unrealistic. For one thing, children don't always end up looking like a parent. Sometimes they look like grandma. Sometimes they look like an ancestor 7 generations back. My father is 5'11. My younger brother is 5'8. My older brother is almost 6'5. You never know what you're going to get, like the proverbial box of chocolates.

 

By seeking therapy, maybe you'll get to the heart of why you think having a stunning looking child will raise your worth as a human being, and maybe your must-have list will have relaxed in a way that will enable you to have a higher success rate in finding a good match.

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Even with what you perceive as good breeding potential there are no guarantees.

 

I went to school with a set of twin girls who were unfortunate looking. Bad skin, just unattractive faces and large (tall and husky, would never, ever be a size 6). Their parents were THAT couple in high school...the two most attractive people in school. No idea why that happened, but genetics are tricky.

 

Also, my ex husband is tall. He is 6'2", his two older brothers are 6'3" and 6'4". His sister is 5'9". His younger brother? 5'7". Why that happened? Again, genetics are a crap shoot and there are no guarantees that a tall woman will produce tall children.

 

My ex husband and I are not the prettiest people in the room. We're average. Our kids? Beautiful creatures. And it's not just us thinking so. We'd get stopped in stores, at the post office, at restaurants by strangers admiring our kids. We even had one person say "how did the two of you produce THEM???" They are tall (I am short...5'2" on a good day), our son is 6'4" (wishes he were shorter, go figure) and our daughter is 5'9" (wishes she were shorter, again go figure).

 

Your children may inherit your lack of height, your bad skin...again, no guarantees.

 

I think it's a shame you'd pass up a wonderful woman just because she might not produce children whose height you'd find acceptable. But what would you do if you married a 5'10" woman and your son turns out to be 5'8" and you have a daughter who's 6'? I have to believe you'd love them anyway, but would you be disappointed?

 

Oh well...you gotta do what makes you happy.

 

I get that inheritance is not an exact science... each individual comes with a bundle of genes, some good, some bad. Somebody who looks very attractive and healthy could be a carrier for a dangerous recessive gene that is simply not expressed in that individual, but could still affect his/her children if their partner also happens to possess that gene. I get that each child essentially a genetic lottery randomly combining the genetic information of his/her parents, trying to find a fitter partner just increases the quality of the gene pool from the mother's side, but of course there is no assurance that our children won't be very unlucky and inherit our weaknesses instead of our strengths. (Though in general bad traits are recessive)

 

If I have children, regardless of how they are born, I will love and support them unconditionally. I have absolutely no doubt of that. If I married somebody tall and our son was unfortunately shorter than me regardless (very unlikely tbh) then I would accept him the same as if he were 6ft+ I just feel like I should "do my part" to give my potential offspring the best chance possible conditions to live a happy life.

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If you have children, even if you don't voice that you're disappointed that your son isn't taller than you by age 16, or that your daughter has spina bifida and will never be able to walk like her parents and brother, or they possess any other flaw you consider genetically unpleasing, they will sense your disappointment and feel like your approval will always be out of reach.

 

If you're wanting children in order to raise your self esteem and showcase to other people how you've mixed what you consider mediocre genes with top shelf genes and therefore created offspring with a superior appearance, then you're having children for the wrong reasons. (OMG, typing that reminded me of the Aryan Race ideology)

 

Some of your must-haves are realistic, but this one about the offspring makes me think you could benefit from some therapy because it's not your average thought process, and that mindset would be harmful to any child you bring into this world.

 

Finding who you find attractive is inherent and nothing you can choose, but you're placing limitations on yourself with your stringent criteria of height and looks which relate back to what your offspring will look like if you pair with a particular lady, which is really unrealistic. For one thing, children don't always end up looking like a parent. Sometimes they look like grandma. Sometimes they look like an ancestor 7 generations back. My father is 5'11. My younger brother is 5'8. My older brother is almost 6'5. You never know what you're going to get, like the proverbial box of chocolates.

 

By seeking therapy, maybe you'll get to the heart of why you think having a stunning looking child will raise your worth as a human being, and maybe your must-have list will have relaxed in a way that will enable you to have a higher success rate in finding a good match.

 

I genuinely don't think my preference for genetically healthy children has much to do with my ego. I think it is more to do with the way I see the world... increasingly split between the haves and have-nots, with AI and automation replacing most low-skill blue collar and white collar jobs in the coming decades, the competition for meaningful and fulfilling careers will become ever more intense. I want my children to have the best odds possible of succeeding in such a world, because I fear being mediocre in the 21st century will mean a life of confusion, lack of purpose, lack of hope.

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These are the only two non-modifiable features. The rest is up to you and your life style. However given all that, height is really this only one. All the rest are treatable, from skin problems, wearing glasses, getting fit and treatment for depression, etc..

 

Furthermore it's not as simple as the eugenics you are thinking about. You could marry a 6 foot supermodel-bionic woman and all your kids could still come out with all the traits you have but dislike. Your logic is completely flawed by the fact that it has no or very simplistic scientific validity.

 

The human genome and all the environmental factors are simply too complex for this. The best approach would be to find someone who is as imperfect and human as you are and learn to love yourself so you can love others. You don't have to stay with Jane or Cathy or any other local women. You can simply breakup without all this rationalizing and pseudoscience.

I am short (172cm) for a guy. short sightness,

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