Facebook share
LinkedIn share
Google plus share
Twitter plus share
Give Advice
Ask For Advice
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 40

Thread: Perspective

  1. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    16
    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I'm going to try to take a simple approach here.

    The first few months with someone—the first year, let's say—is when we build a foundation. Your foundation, by the sound of it, is heavily built on a number of feelings that many people do not, in a vacuum, describe as what they want from romance: edginess, headiness, doubts. You have questioned things with her—literally, in talks, to say nothing of your own head—at a pitch and frequency that surpasses those in ten year marriages. That's not going to go away by building on it, but will just become more cemented and entrenched.

    This is, in short, a pretty clear portrait of what incompatibility looks and feels like.

    Think of it like this. She meets a man, starts dating. She is with that man exactly as she is with you: saying x, doing y. How does he respond to all that? With a sweet sigh of calm where you hyperventilate, with a shrug where you shudder. His calm calms her. Her calm calms him. That is their foundation for opening up to one another. That is what compatibility looks like: simple thing, mysteriously formed.

    Rose has offered a lot of wisdom, a wonderful way to approach this. But I also think what she is describing is the way my straw person man would approach this—because that is just who he is, how he operates, not a state of being he has to try on to feel calm instead of hyperventilating, to train himself how to shrug at stimuli that makes him shudder.

    Just as you'd like her to be, you know, just a touch different than how she is, I'd imagine that she'd like you to be a touch different than how you are. Then you both could just chill, enjoying all the goodness without the static edge. Nice story, and many people spend years inside such dynamics, less comforted by the other than by the sense that once x and y falls into place comfort will be attained.

    I don't think it ever works that way. You don't meet a lot of people who, in year two or three, describe how an initial foundation of disharmony evolved into harmony.
    Wow. You’re completely correct. It’s me who is the issue; partially of course, as it always takes two.

    She’s opening up and showing me who she is and I’m getting panicked by what I see and hear and this is creating problems.
    I’m not setting the right boundaries FOR ME. So in turn she’s wreaking havoc and spilling her thoughts because I’ve allowed it which makes me uneasy.
    She tells me things and I get perturbed about it, hyperventilate, act sensitive, chase her and then repeat.
    She mentioned her ex did the same in some ways, same issues. They had a similar foundation.

    I think the great thing about the above sentiment is that with enough self excavation and mindfulness I will be able to shift my behaviour.
    Because we do have many many things working for us. But I do believe my sensitivity and slight neediness causes issues which put her off.
    But there are parts of her which need work as well. It takes two.

  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    16
    Originally Posted by Rose Mosse
    I see what you mean. I don't think either of you are compatible if you're easily perturbed by her. Sorry to say that. If you have such a problem with her personality, simply end the relationship and move on. There's really no point in finding constant fault with your partner. I don't think she's emotionally unavailable. She's shown you and spoken about your future together and indicated in her actions that she's into you. I think you're just way too sensitive and insecure about the relationship; it goes both ways (or can be seen in different ways). I don't live your reality so it's difficult for anyone, including me, to pass judgment. My personality with yours? We definitely wouldn't get along very well for example. I'd be walking on eggshells with everything I say because you're apt to misconstrue or take things too personally. I don't know how bad your bad days with her are. I can't hear the tone in her voice if she's feeling insecure (everyone has bad days). I'm just not one to make a big deal of a lot of things.

    I think what you said about the being free and playful might be right but I don't see why you can't be free and playful and let her be exactly as she is. It's a lot of pressure and I'd personally find you unbearable to be around (I mean this in the most not mean way ever - just being honest). You're clearly unhappy. No one would be happy with an unhappy person or knowing their partner is expecting more. Maybe this is you venting because you don't have much clear communication with your partner. I think being honest and upfront is important. Again, if you find her intolerable and disturbing, end the relationship and move on. Don't hold this inside you or let it fester. It's a terrible way to live.
    I think there is a lot of truth in here.

    I’m perturbed by her voicing certain uncertainties and beliefs she has toward relationships and is. Or her past.
    I do think I’m insecure. However it does matter if your partner is making you feel insecure or secure. And she’s done more of the former.

    I do think I need to practice being free and playful without some reciprocity if something specific.
    We do have communication. But she will often communicate about her concerns or worries. Rather than all the aspects she really likes. Those get slotted in while she’s talking about her worries. But the conversation is spawned through her being very cold and distant.

  3. #23
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    3,475
    Gender
    Male
    Originally Posted by Blackpebble
    I’m not with her based on potential. We share a hell of a lot together. However there are simply some issues she’s attempting to get through. But she isn’t fully available.. she said she was like 45%-50% when I met her, and now she’s about 65%. So it’s improvement but still lacking to the level she would ideally like.
    I totally understand not wanting to let something go—and whether you do, or don't, is going to be a choice you make when it's the right choice for you.

    But what you described above is what an investment in potential looks like, right down to the percentages. It was "okay" when she was at 45, is "better" now that she's at 65. So the idea, I guess, is that once the "attempt" to get through the issues is actualized, the availability quotient is raised to—to what? 85? 99? What's the number you need to be comfortable?

    Think about all that for a moment. Were you talking about starting a company, it would make sense. You take some hits and take on some debt in the early days, to see if you can grow. But with a person? It's like saying they are one half or two thirds what you want and need. The rub of that can be addressed in how "better" (at 65 percent) is actually not quite better than "okay" (45 percent). Because odds are you are a bit edgier today than you were, I don't know, five months ago, so as things get "better" you are feeling a little worse for the wear. Five months ago you were not posting about it because you were happier in it, I'm guessing.

    Everyone has issues, and everyone, in one way or another, spends their entire life attempting to sort through them. The people we work well with in romance are often people who, thanks to some voodoo no one can package, can work through their issues alongside us, as we work through ours alongside them, without a lot of friction and without the sense that those issues are at all impediments to the connection.

    You are thinking now of ways you can change, fulfill more of your potential: mindfulness, self evacuation, behavioral shifts. Great. Good stuff, for you, regardless of what happens here. My advice, right now, is to remember that: that there is no negative outcome to wherever this goes. That way you drop the percentage game—the potential game—and inhabit what is actual about all connections: it might not work, and that is okay.

    It sounds odd, but there can be real comfort in that. Knowing it's okay, however it goes, is what allows you to be in it, inhaling and exhaling as yourself rather than hyperventilating. And if the hyperventilating doesn't abate? Great sign that you can't be yourself alongside another.

  4. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    16
    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I totally understand not wanting to let something go—and whether you do, or don't, is going to be a choice you make when it's the right choice for you.

    But what you described above is what an investment in potential looks like, right down to the percentages. It was "okay" when she was at 45, is "better" now that she's at 65. So the idea, I guess, is that once the "attempt" to get through the issues is actualized, the availability quotient is raised to—to what? 85? 99? What's the number you need to be comfortable?
    I don’t think letting it go right now is the best. Because what we have is substantial. I know I would regret it. And miss her very much. And I would like to see what she does in the coming months since she has taken some steps towards seeing a counsellor.. if that sticks. But like you said, I’ll know when it’s right if that time comes.

    The number would be more around 80-85 to be good, in my mind. It’s more-so hoping she will rid those thoughts of feeling like she won’t love again or has that space. It’s just odd to me.


    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    Because odds are you are a bit edgier today than you were, I don't know, five months ago, so as things get "better" you are feeling a little worse for the wear. Five months ago you were not posting about it because you were happier in it, I'm guessing.
    I don’t know if I’m edgier. I think I’m less hopeful. Things have been easier in some regards, but her regression does surprise and baffle me too.
    Five months ago I did post about our relationship. Just not to this site. She’s always been all over the place. So I don’t know if that’s I’ll ever change. Or if I want to live like that.
    But I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a shrug it off kind of place with her. This is what I need to focus on, as per our recent messages.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    Everyone has issues, and everyone, in one way or another, spends their entire life attempting to sort through them. The people we work well with in romance are often people who, thanks to some voodoo no one can package, can work through their issues alongside us, as we work through ours alongside them, without a lot of friction and without the sense that those issues are at all impediments to the connection.
    I don’t mind her working through her stuff with me. And me her. The only issue I have is when she doubts what we have.
    She said she often feels guilty because she can’t give to me in the manner I give to her. And she can’t give because she feels she can’t go that deep ever again because of her brokenness. But I’ve never once asked her for more than she has given.
    She often feels guilty because of how well I treat her and she recognizes how wounded or how damaged she has become.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    You are thinking now of ways you can change, fulfill more of your potential: mindfulness, self evacuation, behavioral shifts. Great. Good stuff, for you, regardless of what happens here. My advice, right now, is to remember that: that there is no negative outcome to wherever this goes. That way you drop the percentage game—the potential game—and inhabit what is actual about all connections: it might not work, and that is okay.

    It sounds odd, but there can be real comfort in that. Knowing it's okay, however it goes, is what allows you to be in it, inhaling and exhaling as yourself rather than hyperventilating. And if the hyperventilating doesn't abate? Great sign that you can't be yourself alongside another.
    Well said.

    So what would your advice be when she does start vocalizing her doubts or saying her uncertainties about us?
    Just shrug it off and move forward?

  5.  

  6. #25
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cloud Nine
    Posts
    35,450
    Gender
    Male
    Neutral. "oh", etc. Just let her vent and do not try to fix or defend anything. But don't shrug it off. Take mental notes and watch the patterns. At her age, what you see is what you get. It will only get worse, unfortunately or keep cycling and wear you down. Use the 6 mos away from her to think things over.
    Originally Posted by Blackpebble
    when she does start vocalizing her doubts or saying her uncertainties about us?

  7. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    16
    Originally Posted by Wiseman2
    Neutral. "oh", etc. Just let her vent and do not try to fix or defend anything. But don't shrug it off. Take mental notes and watch the patterns. At her age, what you see is what you get. It will only get worse, unfortunately or keep cycling and wear you down. Use the 6 mos away from her to think things over.
    Right. Good call.

    What do you mean by using 6 months away from her?

  8. #27
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    3,475
    Gender
    Male
    Well, it's all either very complicated or very simple, depending on how you want to turn the prism. Simple is your friend right now.

    Let's imagine that instead of "I'm not sure I'm capable of love" what you were hearing was "I need to figure out how to make $10,000 more a year to be financially solvent." Because if you zoom out a bit they're not that different. Both are personal issues. They get solved, in one way or another, by the person. They get solved in way that works, or doesn't, for you.

    You're in a tough position since it's very hard—understandably—not to take her personal issue personally. You're in a relationship with someone openly questioning her ability to love, to be available for a loving connection, which affects your feelings. Still, if you genuinely want to be in that, as you say you do, then you have to separate your feelings from the facts of her issues. That's the magic trick, with the magic being that it can't be a trick.

    So when she vocalizes her doubts? You listen, saying a bit but not adding weight to the scale by offering solutions or over-indulging. She gets to be heard, you get heard: that there is a cornerstone of connection. That all has to be a source of more pleasure than angst—which, of course, is the part that can't quite be forced. It can't feel like a psychological experiment, endurance test, or eggshell walk. Those things have expiration dates. It has to feel like affection.

    How to do that? Well, you're getting something valuable out of this right now, and I don't just mean the "good" stuff you guys share. You are getting something out of this part too. Try to figure out what that is, something you can isolate and articulate to yourself, so the jabs don't land so hard. It's like a long distance runner. He knows why he does it—be it the runner's "high," the thrill of beating past times or the thrill of beating others—and so the parts where he feels his lungs might collapse or his legs might break are manageable, even part of the thrill, the reward of running.

    Does that make sense? I admit, in writing that down, I worry I am giving constructive advice about how to trick your brain into thinking that incompatibility and compatibility are not opposing forces but things that can braid into one. Hence, I stress again the importance of being okay if things don't work out: devastated, yes, but okay. That bedrock is essential to all relationships—the inner pillar we lean on when the pillar of another is wobbly, as it will be from time to time. It's also essential to allowing us to evaluate something while being in it.

    It's so clear you care deeply for her. That is beautiful, a gift in itself. Do remind yourself of that, and take some comfort in that even when it feels, momentarily, like her care exists at a different depth—for herself, for you. That's allowed. That's just the mystery of another person, not the riddle you get to solve.

  9. #28
    Platinum Member Rose Mosse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    2,665
    Gender
    Female
    When does she usually start vocalizing her doubts, so to speak? If she's whiny or complains a lot, it may just be her personality overall. Don't enable her and I agree with neutralizing it. There's a limit to hearing someone out especially if that person is taking an active role in bringing the relationship down or nitpicking/tearing it apart for illegitimate reasons (if she has no tangible reasons and also no ideas on how to work through things more constructively).

    You're supposed to be able to filter through that because you're the one dealing with her and listening to her in person. I'm surprised that you're expressing so much self-doubt. Maybe it's because you're very hurt deep down? Try and work on your self-confidence there. Sooner or later you'll have to decide whether you want to be with a negative person or with someone with whom you don't seem to get along very well with. I think if you're having this much trouble discerning these things, this isn't a good sign overall for the relationship.

  10. #29
    Bronze Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    154
    Depression is a never ending game. If she has chronic depression she will always have chronic depression. It's not a phase. She could get help and medicate herself but there's still a possibility that her meds can become unbalanced again, putting her in a position where she has to do trial and error with new treatment.

    Depression isn't a choice and it's not taboo. She's chemically imbalanced. It doesn't matter how well the relationship is going, if she's chemically imbalanced then she'll struggle. You could be amazing towards her and she'd still have issues.

    I think you're approaching her depression as if its it's a concious choice. Numerous studies have show that it's not a concious choice. That being said, you should be there for her and stand by her while she makes herself healthy again and expect to do this more than once because she's going to have rough days, maybe even rough months and it's important that you separate: someone being chemically imbalanced due to reasons beyond her control and someone trying to be difficult and toxic.

  11. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    16
    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    Well, it's all either very complicated or very simple, depending on how you want to turn the prism. Simple is your friend right now.

    Let's imagine that instead of "I'm not sure I'm capable of love" what you were hearing was "I need to figure out how to make $10,000 more a year to be financially solvent." Because if you zoom out a bit they're not that different. Both are personal issues. They get solved, in one way or another, by the person. They get solved in way that works, or doesn't, for you.
    This is a good analogy. I don't know why I get so bent out of shape when she says things about the love. I suppose I simply have a tendency to take things personally. But like you said, It's very difficult not to, when a relationship is an emotional one. But you're right; It's a personal issue of hers and by her being around with me still and communicating about things, clearly shes trying to get to the bottom of some things.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    You're in a tough position since it's very hard—understandably—not to take her personal issue personally. You're in a relationship with someone openly questioning her ability to love, to be available for a loving connection, which affects your feelings. Still, if you genuinely want to be in that, as you say you do, then you have to separate your feelings from the facts of her issues. That's the magic trick, with the magic being that it can't be a trick.
    Difficult iindeed. I have to be okay that I feel what I do, and she feels what she does. It's like trying to rewind the clock and be slightly detached as a person maybe would be at 1-2 months in.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    So when she vocalizes her doubts? You listen, saying a bit but not adding weight to the scale by offering solutions or over-indulging. She gets to be heard, you get heard: that there is a cornerstone of connection. That all has to be a source of more pleasure than angst—which, of course, is the part that can't quite be forced. It can't feel like a psychological experiment, endurance test, or eggshell walk. Those things have expiration dates. It has to feel like affection.
    So start looking at when she expresses her doubts as a gift, that she feels she can express herself to me. Keeping it unweighted and brief.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    How to do that? Well, you're getting something valuable out of this right now, and I don't just mean the "good" stuff you guys share. You are getting something out of this part too. Try to figure out what that is, something you can isolate and articulate to yourself, so the jabs don't land so hard. It's like a long distance runner. He knows why he does it—be it the runner's "high," the thrill of beating past times or the thrill of beating others—and so the parts where he feels his lungs might collapse or his legs might break are manageable, even part of the thrill, the reward of running.
    What do you mean fully by this?

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    Does that make sense? I admit, in writing that down, I worry I am giving constructive advice about how to trick your brain into thinking that incompatibility and compatibility are not opposing forces but things that can braid into one. Hence, I stress again the importance of being okay if things don't work out: devastated, yes, but okay. That bedrock is essential to all relationships—the inner pillar we lean on when the pillar of another is wobbly, as it will be from time to time. It's also essential to allowing us to evaluate something while being in it.
    I think there are some incompatible aspects between us, but no one couple is 100% compatible. I think it is about reshaping some of the current issues and not being so reactive or perturbed by them, and learning how to be more of a *shrug* it off type man. And this would be a good practice in an overall life skill; not getting hung up on some smaller things.

    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    It's so clear you care deeply for her. That is beautiful, a gift in itself. Do remind yourself of that, and take some comfort in that even when it feels, momentarily, like her care exists at a different depth—for herself, for you. That's allowed. That's just the mystery of another person, not the riddle you get to solve.
    I think I often want to know exactly whats going on in her head. Always trying to solve things. But in turn I give up a bit of my self, and in turn my power. I think in the end it's just accepting this is where shes currently at, and nt to get too bent out of shape about things. And this would have to do with expectations.
    Although, I do think there is something to be said about why in fact she is even bringing detrimental conversations up of us.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Give Advice
Ask For Advice

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •