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Family life falling apart


MercMan

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Hi all, I'm new to the forum and really need some help trying to put things into perspective. I'm on the brink of ending my relationship with my fiance.

 

We have been together for 5 years. Engaged for 2. We have two children, 15 months and 7 weeks, both of which were planned. We do not live together. She lives with her mum and our children and I live with my parents. The plan was for us to save up to buy our own place but this is taking longer than we both expected.

 

I have been very unhappy, pretty much since the birth of our first son. From the start, everything was her and her mum, and for me I was just a convenient person to have around, to go and get something or go and do the shopping. I was an outsider, I wasn't allowed to do anything with my son and when I did I was told it was wrong. It wasn't wrong, it was just different to how she and her mum did things. I had difficulties bonding with my son, because I wasn't able to do what came naturally to me, I was having to adapt and do what was natural to her and what she thought was best. Our relationship became very strained and I pushed myself away.

 

Our first child was breast fed for approx 6 months and our new baby is currently being breast fed - I accept that this is her role and not something I could/can do. I'm going to focus on my relationship with our 15 month old here because that is the long standing issue and I know that a newborn needs to be with his mother, especially when breastfeeding.

 

We have pretty much argued every other week for the last 15 months. Everything I do is criticised. I can only do what she tells me I can do with our children. It always comes back to routines. She says that I do not know his routine, like when he is tired, when he has his nap, when he goes to sleep on an evening - despite the fact that I shower/bath him every night. There is always an excuse - she says that I do not know his routine, while saying that he does not have a routine - he will sleep when he is tired. He will show when he is tired and that is when he will go to bed - always usually aroiund the same time depending on when he woke up from his afternoon nap. He will come up to me, lay his head on my knee and cuddle me - HE IS TIRED - yet when I ask him if he is tired - I get the same response back from her every time - he always does that. Even though he is tired, we then have to wait until she decides it's bed time - basically she will not acknowledge that I can read him like she does. It's so frustrating - afternoon nap time - he again showed signs he is tired - I asked him if he wanted to sleep (acknowleding my son who is showing me he needs something - he cannot yet talk) - yet again, no he is not tired, he always does that. 5 minutes later he is asleep on her.

 

Whilst I do his showers, I am not allowed to put him to bed because I do not do this properly. He always wakes up when I put him to bed - he always wakes up when she puts him to bed - then I get blamed somehow - because I should be able to put him to bed and look after him.

 

My parents have seen my 15 month old approx 8-10 times since he has been born. They were smokers and the first reason he could not come around to my parents house was because the smoke still exists in the house - total redecoration of the entire house.

From that moment on, there is always a reason why my parents cannot see him - for example when he was going through a stage of putting everything in his mouth, he put my mums finger in his mouth (he did it with me a number of times) Her hands were clean as she washed them prior to us arriving - yet it was my mum putting her finger in his mouth. My parents and I were not allowed to kiss him, despite her and her mum kissing him all of the time. It got to the point that my parents seeing him so little, when they did see him they were so excited to see him - they they're overbaring. They have seen him 8-10 times in 15 months and for approx 30 to 60 mins each time.

 

As it was causing a problem, we arranged a meeting between my parents, her, her mum and myself - this didn't end well - as usual it turned into an argument where she is right and no one elses opinion counts. My parents haven't see my first born since his 1st birthday, and the new born since the day he was born.

 

Because my parents see very little of their grandchildren, I try and take as many pictures for them as possible. Before I send any pictures to my parents I have to send them to my fiance for her approval and because she should see them before anyone else should - yet she does not do the same back. I am not allowed to take any pictures of the children in her house - yet we very rarely leave the house.

 

They is a clear issue between her and my parents - i've tried to be reasonable - she doesn't want them in her house, she doesn't want to come to my house, she doesn't want to leave the house - so my suggestion is to take the 15 month old to see my parents either at their house or somewhere neutral - no, because she does not trust me, I do not know his routine & it will effect his sleeping habits.

 

I am not allowed to take him out on my own because she doesn't trust me. She criticises everything I do. It's got to the point that I am so used to getting told I am doing something wrong, and so afraid of doing something and being told that I am getting something wrong, that fear takes over and now I get simple things wrong - like putting a nappy on correctly. I'm scared of doing anything with my children. I am a shadow of the person I used to be. I am literaly like a zombie.

 

We are not living together. I tend to stay at home/my parents each night and go visit the children each night and weekends. Stay, do the shower for the 15 month year old, watch some TV with her and then go home. I usually get home around 1-2am each night and start work at 9am. Any spare time that I have (when not working or sleeping a limited amount) I am at hers/her mums house, basically just sat there while they watch rubbish reality tv/game shows on the TV. I used to stay over, but as our relationship has strained I have stopped staying over.

 

I used to enjoy watching sports but I am not allowed to do this anymore, because I have to sacrifce things I enjoy for the children. I have no problem in sacrificing anything whatsoever for my children. What I do have a problem with is spending my spare time sat in their living room - that is literally all that I do. Before we got together I used to go to the football, every game, home and away. Due to family commitments I now go hardly any games - because I should be spending quality time with my children/family. Only it's not quality time, it's sat in the living room being criticised all the time and living in fear of doing something that I am not allowed to do. She never wants to go out, and says it messes up his sleep. So bascially we have to stay in pretty much every day, and if/when we go out, she's always angry with me.

 

I used to do a lot of overtime at work, to try and save for a deposit for the house, but i'm not allowed to do any overtime because she needs help with the children, only she does not accept any help. Basically I go to work and then I have to go to hers until the children are asleep. Then we watch some tv because it's the only time she gets to relax. Occasionally the 15 month old will wake up in the night - she gets really angry and frustrated, but she will not let me help. So I am bascically just sat there in the living room until she comes back down - sometimes I'm there until 4am, then have work at 9am.

 

I feel like she wants to control all aspects of our childrens life and my life and does not see me as an equal parent. I am reaching breaking point at being controlled all the time. I have literally being miserable/unhappy since the birth of our first born. We have spoken about this a number of times and have been seeing a relationship counsellor. She twists everything I say and says it's untrue or a lie and the session usually focuses on her agenda. I have had enough.

 

I did end the relationship around 5 months ago, only to agree to give it another try. Because she was pregnant with our second baby, and because she made it clear that I would not be part of either of the childrens life and I would not be named on the birth certificate of our second baby. She said that she would try and change and that she would try and help me learn what to do with the children. Basically from them on, I have to do what she says with the children and cannot use my own mind - yet when I ask her how she wants me to do something, she tells me to use my own initiative. I'm lost, I don't know what to do any more.

 

I'm now at the stage where I am thinking it would be best for clean break from the relationship. She has made it clear that she would make things difficult for me to see the children - however I know that I have rights. I am thinking that although I would have less access to the children, I would have more quality time with them (have very little quality time at the moment) and I would begin to repair my life.

 

I'm sure there are lots of things that I am missing here, im basically just asking for some perspective - am I right to feel like this? Should I be a better partner/father? Am I being selfish?

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Thank You Seraphim, I have spoken with a couple of friends at work who were concerned for me (after noticing a massive decline in my personality) and they have pretty much said the same.

 

I'm just at the point where I'm scared to making that final decision - atleast currently I go around each day and see my children. I fear that she will turn them against me and she has pretty much said that she would do that when I broke things off previously

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Thank You Seraphim, I have spoken with a couple of friends at work who were concerned for me (after noticing a massive decline in my personality) and they have pretty much said the same.

 

I'm just at the point where I'm scared to making that final decision - atleast currently I go around each day and see my children. I fear that she will turn them against me and she has pretty much said that she would do that when I broke things off previously

You need to document everything and see a lawyer . Never, I mean never have another child with this girl. And she is acting like a spoiled girl. You have seen what she’s like now so never do that again . Get a lawyer immediately . These are your children too. She didn’t create them out of thin air and you have rights too.

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Unfortunately stalling living together as a family is just not working. You need to get an apt together and live as a family. All the issues and problems you describe are a result of you living with your parents, being an off-site dad and her living with her family. Stop using 'saving for a house' as an excuse not to live as a family and allowing your and her parents to do everything, pay everything and stir up all the issues you are having.

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Wiseman, I agree with you to a certain extent. You see, up until the last 6 or so months I have been pretty much living there and staying over almost every night for the 3-4 years. It's only recently where I have been staying away. The original plan was for us to stay other at both houses, initially just me and her, and then when the first child was born, for all 3 of us to share houses. Initially that wasn't possible at my parents due to lack of space, but once my brother moved out there was more space, so straight away I decorated and had planned for us both to spend time at both houses - that never happened because she would have been uncomfortable - but it's ok for me to be unfcomfortable at hers.

 

I don't believe she would leave her mum if I am honest. When we have looked at houses in the past, we have never really agreed on where we would get one. I am more realistic - there are some good areas where you can get good value for money on a good 2-3 bedroom house. Only she wants the best - which means we have to save up 30-40k for a deposit to get her "forever home" in a posh area of the city, which would also be close to her mum, so her mum could come and visit - it can't be too far away from her mum because although she drives, she only drives where she knows and gets confused when driving somewhere new.

 

I believe some of the problems stem from us not living together in our own house, but not all of them.

 

The problem have is if we do agree to buy somewhere and it doesn't work out, then I will end up having to move out and continue to pay for a house I cannot visit.

 

Renting is not an option, she will not rent as she sees it as wasted money - which I tend to agree with, but we do not have enough for a deposit at the moment to buy our own place.

 

Everything comes back to money - I pay for maintainance of the children, and we also have a small joint account for emergencies if we need money for the children, yet when the baby monitor happened to break when I was using it (looking it up online it is a known problem that breaks), I got the blame from breaking it and had to go out and buy out of the little amount I had left that month leaving me with nothing to put towards savings because I broke it (it just broke). So rather than using the emergency fund for the exact kind of thing it was for, it had to take out of the limited money i had left, leaving me with no money for the last 2 weeks, having to borrow from my parents for fuel so I can go to work and visit the children.

 

Our finances have over the last 6 months become totally seperate and she has made it a case that what is hers is hers and what is mine is ours kind of thing - she has become very controlling and keeps her things seperate and can be quite secretive. The joint children fund that we have, she has stopped paying into that and took her share of the money that she has paid into it - assume that she thinks I am going to steal it.

Currently I am struggling to put anything towards savings due to outgoings and over the last few months reduced income following the birth of baby number 2 I was off work for 3 weeks and since returning to work I have not been able to do any overtime.

 

So whilst I agree that moving in together may solve some issues, I do not believe it is the answer to all of our problems.

 

Also, wiseman, to clarify, my parents arn't doing anything - they're not allowed to see my children.

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You need to support your children one way or the other. Whether you are married, living together, separated, divorced, etc. If you question her use of the funds, get court ordered child support for a fair price. Since you are living more like divorced parents than a couple anyway. What are you paying her parents for utilities, bills, food, housing, babysitting, etc for your children?

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Ooof. Hard situation.

 

I very much agree with Sera that you need to talk to a lawyer, ASAP. This is not a relationship anymore, not really. Can that change? Maybe, though the odds do not look good. Time to hedge against those odds by getting a clear understanding of your rights, of how things would and could look if the relationship is formally dissolved in favor of a co-parenting relationship.

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Ooof. Hard situation.

 

I very much agree with Sera that you need to talk to a lawyer, ASAP. This is not a relationship anymore, not really. Can that change? Maybe, though the odds do not look good. Time to hedge against those odds by getting a clear understanding of your rights, of how things would and could look if the relationship is formally dissolved in favor of a co-parenting relationship.

 

If I do make clean break from her, she will make it very difficult for me to see the children. It will result in a bitter court battle and she will try and turn the children against me. This is not good for the children. They shouldn't have to go through this.

 

I've seen how her mum talks about her dad and how they have a very strained relationship. I fear that initially I will not get to see the children, and further down the line they will resent me for walkiing away from their mum

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That's why I'm saying you need to talk to a lawyer. You do have rights, plain and simple. Learning a bit about them, and how all that works, is far healthier than sitting around in fear of things you don't actually understand. Will is be potentially very difficult? Yes. Are you already in a difficult situation? Yes. This, at least right now, is about lessening the difficulty through knowledge.

 

Is she open to counseling together? Are you? How was your relationship before the birth of your oldest? Strong, loving? Or were some of the issues that are playing out now playing out then, but at a lower frequency?

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Yes we are currently going go counselling. She is reluctantly going - she said that she will go so that she can tell the children that she did everything in her power to make it work between us.

Initially when I suggested counseling at the start of the year, she refused to go and said that all of the issues were mine and that I should go on my own, which I did, but that didn't really help because it was issues between the two of us.

We have both been going for a few month now, I think while it has helped a little, it has not got to any of the main issues - because she is very stubborn and refuses to be criticised - what she is doing is correct and will not let anyone tell her otherwise. She will often argue with the counsellor if she says something she does not like. Everything gets turned on me - it's like I am not there. She refuses to acknowledge my feelings most if the time and when she does she twists it saying that I am making things up anyway so i see it as just a waste of money going there.

 

There were issues prior to the birth of our first child - they've just been magnified massivly since the children came along.

Previously the problems were down to me not being able to spend time with my friends/colleagues. Since we got together I reckon I have seen my friends a handful of times and lost contact with a lot of them. I used to go to the football with a group of friends, this no longer happens. She says that I love football more than her and that I need to make sacrifices and to put her first - I have done this many times and very rarely go to the football now.

basically since we got together I spend all my time with her and never get the chance to have time to myself and do the things that I enjoy. Now she uses the children as the excuse for me not to go. As i said in my first post, I will sacrifice anything and everything for my children - but there is nothing to sacrifice as just being sat in her house feeling misarable and not being able to spend quality time with the children, while her and her mum watch the kardashians on the tv.

 

She doesn't really have any friends as she says that she does not get on with people. She has fallen out with people in her two previous jobs and has decided that she needs to be self employed moving forward as she cannot get along with people. Because she does not have friends and hobbies does not mean that I cannot.

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We are engaged. It was always my intention/wish to get sorted with House/wedding first. However she wanted children and became obsessed with needing to have children. Children were always on the cards for me, but further down the line. I wanted to make her happy so agreed we would try for a baby.

Following the issues we had after the first was born, i did say I do not think it was the right time to have a second baby so quickly. We needed to work on our relationship - i guess she grind me down to agreeing to try for a second baby.

I wouldn't go as far as saying the second baby was a mistake, but I think the timing was. We should have waited got our relationship/family/house sorted first, but she was so focused on having them close together in age i just kind of went along with it.

I should have stood up to her more, I know that and I feel that I have let her walk all over me for far too long.

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I feel for you.

 

Here's the thing, though: You, right now, are as hyper-focused on her being the source of your troubles as she is focused on you being the source of hers. That tug of war can go on indefinitely, with each of you in some way finding fleeting sense of power by blaming the other. She may be more "active" in that instinct, but passivity is a form of action, just as corrosive, and one you sound prone, in this dynamic, to indulge in.

 

That's not judgement, but an observation. Were I to play shrink, I'd say that passive part of you existed before you met her and that she knows how to exploit it. It is not calculated, but instinctual, all that. Part of your "chemistry" together, a sour component of whatever is, or was, sweet.

 

In other words, she did not "make" you spend less time with your friends. She said x and y about you spending time with your friends, and you chose to respond to x and y in a few ways. Where someone else would have maybe ended a relationship, you spent less time with them, while resenting her for "doing that" to you, and by turning that "sacrifice" into a kind of currency that you expect can be cashed in—for, say, the sort of love and affection you want but aren't quite getting. A precedent was set, and by the sounds of it that same precedent led to having kids in the way you did, and has now led to the family dynamic you're in today.

 

Sacrifice is not noble, I'm sorry to say. It is, yes, a thing we do plenty of in life, but it is not a transaction. Just as your infant children do not shower you in thanks for saying up until 4am, and just like any parent will become a shell of a person waiting for an infant to thank them, a partner's job is not to reward sacrifices with love. That's why we pick partners, in an ideal world, where sacrifices hardly feel like sacrifices, but instead extensions of love. They empower us, the sacrifices, rather than drain us. Were I to generously observe the two of you, from what you've written, I'd say you each picked someone who brings out more weaker qualities in the other than stronger ones.

 

What to do with all that? Well, time to get active in addressing it. There are children here, and there is your own spirit. The health of latter is essential to the health of the former. You can't, in the end, change her mode of operating—she can only do that, or opt not to—but you can tweak your own and she how she responds to those tweaks. Talking to a lawyer is active, for instance. It is not a chess move in the game of war, but a move for you: gathering information so you are not reliant on her to be the only encyclopedia on the shelf.

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How old are you two? I too think you need to see a lawyer ASAP, like tomorrow, work out a custody agreement which is on paper and she cannot ignore it. If you have scheduled visitation, she must abide by it. She sounds dreadful to me and I cant figure out why you had two kids with her.

 

Call that lawyer, dont let another day go by.

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Thank you Bluecastle. Very interesting, eye opening and though provoking.

 

It's interesting that you say that our chemistry is bringing out the negatives in each other.

When we first got together, everything was fun - we would always we doing something having fun - we wanted to be together all the time and when we were not together we would be talking to each other on the phone all of the time. But over the last 3 or so years we've hardly done anything together. There has been a massive change in our relationship for a long while, and long before she was pregnant. I'm trying to think back to wondering what is was that changed it - and if I can identify that - can we both make positive changes to rectify the problems

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I'm 34 and she is 29.

We genuinly loved each other - and thought we both know what we wanted - a great family life, with loving children. However everything has just turned toxic.

 

I know that of course this is all only my point of view and she will have a different point of view. But as I keep telling her, it's my point of view and how I feel, but she just dismisses what I say and says that I am making it all up.

 

I did go through a stage of snapping back at her a lot when she would tell me all the things that I am doing wrong - that was also a big problem for her. Now I'm kind of numb to it, i just dont even bother responding to her anymore.

 

In my mind I think I have made my mind up - I just feel that I will be letting the children down.

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Thank you Bluecastle. Very interesting, eye opening and though provoking.

 

It's interesting that you say that our chemistry is bringing out the negatives in each other.

When we first got together, everything was fun - we would always we doing something having fun - we wanted to be together all the time and when we were not together we would be talking to each other on the phone all of the time. But over the last 3 or so years we've hardly done anything together. There has been a massive change in our relationship for a long while, and long before she was pregnant. I'm trying to think back to wondering what is was that changed it - and if I can identify that - can we both make positive changes to rectify the problems

 

The problem is that you two did not adjust and grow together as a family. You made two children, but didn't get married and adjust to a stable family life where you could still have loads of fun albeit with adjustments for child care. You don't need to think or overthink about "what changed" -that's passive. If I were you I would take action to co-parent your children in the most positive way for the children possible and then secondarily consider whether you want to be in a stable romantic relationship with her that includes being married and living together as a family -if you don't want that and don't want that for your children then I'd focus on co-parenting. You don't "rectify" a "problem" by thinking about what triggered the initial growing apart years ago. Years ago you weren't a father to two children. Now you are. They come first. Years ago she wasn't the mother of your children. So even if you could figure out what happened years ago it would have little to do with whatever is going on now. Certainly if it had been a traumatic event involving abuse or a serious illness, like that, you would know. Don't look for a needle in a haystack. Your kids deserve for you to look right now at what's going as an adult father.

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Bluecastle, your last post has really got me thinking. In particular about sacrifices. I use the word sacrifice because that's the word she uses a lot.

 

The problem I have with these "sacrifices" is that she says that I should want to spend quality time with her and the children - yes I would love that - but we don't. I'm just sat there with her family, not being able to be myself with my children. Sat there with her family, when she will not allow my family to see my children even once a month. She will not allow my family to see my children whatsoever. I am not trusted with my children. She will not allow me to take my children out of the house.

 

Yesterday for example - there I am sat in my usual seat while a rubbish game show is on TV. She was feeding the youngest and then got up tyo go to the toilet, rather than passing him to me, she gave him to her mum. I only got to see my son later in the evening when her mum wasn't in the room. Yet I must be there all the time to help out. Whenever I have a spare moment, I must be there, sat in the living room waiting to be told off for interacting with my child.

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Why not give this one last chance and live together at your own place away from mum and everyone else. I feel this is necessary, so you two are forced to depend on each other like you should be doing. This will form a bond as a couple, and that is what is missing here. Sure there will be issues, but it will be up to you two to work through it no one else. Now combine that will counseling, but the right counseling. Find one the works on communication and teach you two how to communicate with each other, and let you both learn how to work out your problems. Using a counselor to mediate is no different that seeing a divorce lawyer. That is why you are not accomplishing much. Your expectations are in the wrong place. They are not there to solve your personal issues, because that is not what you need to work on. It's all about communication. Communication and understanding each other is key for a relationship to last the long haul.

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Yesterday for example - there I am sat in my usual seat while a rubbish game show is on TV. She was feeding the youngest and then got up tyo go to the toilet, rather than passing him to me, she gave him to her mum. I only got to see my son later in the evening when her mum wasn't in the room. Yet I must be there all the time to help out. Whenever I have a spare moment, I must be there, sat in the living room waiting to be told off for interacting with my child.

 

I'm just flabbergasted that her mother allows this behavior. She is enabling her daughter. Why hasn't anyone put their foot down? Is everyone that afraid of your fiance? She's got you all under her thumb.

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The problem is that you two did not adjust and grow together as a family. You made two children, but didn't get married and adjust to a stable family life where you could still have loads of fun albeit with adjustments for child care. You don't need to think or overthink about "what changed" -that's passive. If I were you I would take action to co-parent your children in the most positive way for the children possible and then secondarily consider whether you want to be in a stable romantic relationship with her that includes being married and living together as a family -if you don't want that and don't want that for your children then I'd focus on co-parenting. You don't "rectify" a "problem" by thinking about what triggered the initial growing apart years ago. Years ago you weren't a father to two children. Now you are. They come first. Years ago she wasn't the mother of your children. So even if you could figure out what happened years ago it would have little to do with whatever is going on now. Certainly if it had been a traumatic event involving abuse or a serious illness, like that, you would know. Don't look for a needle in a haystack. Your kids deserve for you to look right now at what's going as an adult father.

 

We have tried a way where we can get along and bring up the children together. We have tried this multiple times - only she refuses to let me. I must follow her exact routine, despite there being no set routine. I must following exactly what she does. There can be no variation. When I ask how she wants me to do someting, I must use my own initiative, but when I do i am not following what she wants doing. Seriously i feel like she's some kind of dictator.

 

I would like nothing more than being in a loving happy relationship and a loving family - I believe we have gone beyond this and can't see light at the end of the tunnel. She has grind me down so much. I used to be a happy confident person, now I am just outright miserable with no confidence whatsoever. Of course she blames me for that & says its because I know that I am a terrible father. If she would let me father my children then I would be able to show her, but she won't.

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