What to do

My wife and I have been married for 9 years and have 2 beautiful sons. A few years back, I suspected that she was cheating on me - there was a 6 month period after out first son was born that my wife kept going out with friends. I was fine with it at the time - I wanted her to go out and have fun with the girls. But each of the times that she went out, I was getting weird stories. Things weren't adding up. Secret message from other guys. Adding new guys on social media accounts. Finding out she was meeting a guy at the gym.

When I approached her about all of the issues, she admitted that one night while at a work conference she had too much to drink and her boss had kissed her. With the other times, she thought it was a bit of harmless fun 'chatting' to guys while she was out. She didn't think anything of it at the time - she had even accused me of having an affair because I was late home from work once. After some counselling, we seemed to get back the spark and we then had our 2nd child.

That was about 3 years ago... but recently, she went to a hens night. Prior to the weekend, she seemed a bit sketchy. Details were changing, she was going off to other rooms to make plans. A lot more time spent on social media. Then after the weekend, she started becoming more sexual towards me.. stuff that she wouldn't normally do. This lasted for a week and then... nothing. Curiosity got the better of me and I stupidly checked her phone when she was in the shower. I found that on the night of the hens night she was messaging a guy (a male model... I'm assuming he was the entertainment for the night). They were messaging about meeting up at a night club. She called me shortly after to tell me that the hens night has been pretty tame and she might call it a night. Then 2 minutes after she got off the phone with me, she messaged the guy back to confirm where he was. Now, I don't know what happened... but he was messaging her back at 530 the next morning.

I really don't know what to do. If I confront her about it, she would just deny like the other time. Or do I just keep my mouth shut and hope that this doesn't happen again?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Well she's out there for the attention...which tells me things need to be more spontaneous and different in your marriage. She's bored and with a little alcohol she's seeking attention because it feels good, makes her feel special and desired. So take that as a hint to start spicing things up. Not just sexually but, being a little more new with your appearance, attitude, telling her how hot she is, surprising her with a weekend away, go out dancing, taking up a new hobby, etc.

Yes, all a little shady and not so classy. When it's already at this point, speak to a lawyer and take care of your kids.

Welcome to ENA

I am sorry you found this place under these circumstances.

First of all this is NOT your fault!

What you wrote is classic cheater to most of us veterans on here. We have seen all of this before and many of us have lived through it including me.

Cheaters often sprinkle in a little truth in their excuses to make it believable and they know we love them and want to forgive them for their "mistake". The problem is that she couldn't tell you that she did way more than kiss her boss and probably had sex with other guys during that time.

Accusing you of cheating is another classic cheater move to shift blame and try to put you on the defensive.

The hens night story you told has all the classic cheater elements as well. Hyper sexual when she returned (her way of trying to make it up to you or relive the excitement of cheating by imagining the other guy while with you). The call to let you know she was going to be in for the night (makes sure you do not try and reach her while she is with him)

I wish I had better news for you but I think you know and your gut has been telling you that she is cheating again. It is hard to accept because you love and want to trust her but try hard to look past the love and the years together and see things clearly.

What to do. You are right she will just deny it and probably turn it back on you.

The best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears wide open. The next thing is trust your gut! It is rarely wrong.

Then you need to decide what you will do if she is actually banging other guys. Divorce? More counseling?

At best she has and is being disrespectful to your marriage, to you and your family. At worst she is and has been cheating off and on for years.

Keep posting

Lost

I too agree that this is NOT your fault.

You've been a loyal husband, you try to bend to her wants and yet she's running off behaving badly behind your back.

Yes, confront her. Get it all out on the table, even if she's bored or if she wants other men, or whatever it is. Get it all out and see what you both intend on doing now.

The "hen nights" have got to come to an end. She is using them as an excuse to check out other men and to fool around with them. It also sound as though you both need seriously marriage counselling.

But to be honest, I don't know if this is salvageable this time. She is disrespecting you on many levels. She no longer cares about your feelings and she is being dishonest and betraying you every chance she get's. It's also nothing new.

You might just consider contacting a divorce lawyer.

Have you been loyal to her? Seems a bit odd that you've known each other for so many years and you're completely innocent. Go over your dynamic as a couple. It doesn't have to come down to who cheated first or who did what first. If you're not getting along or you both have an unhealthy dynamic it usually results from a lot of resentment. It usually takes two to tango.

Seems a bit odd that you've known each other for so many years and you're completely innocent

Why is it?

Guys are capable of being loyal Rose. This is a case of her being a habitual cheater and I don't think the marriage is worth fighting for. When someone disrespects the other, I think it's game over.

Yes, we have been together since 2005 - and I have been loyal that whole time.

Thanks everyone for the advice. My gut tells me where this is heading - but I just can't do it to my boys. I grew up with divorced parents and I hated it. I also left my life in another city to be with her. It would be impossible having to restart my career at my age - now I know that is not a good reason to stay. At the end of the day - I still love her, I know that sounds strange after what has happened.

Marriage counselling seems the way - but she is so reluctant to go. She gets so defensive : (

Great post by lostandhurt. I'd read it a few times.

I'm not a big fan of the idea of trying to define "a cheater" as a type of person. More like a way of being that some people can be, some of them for a long time, some not. But, yes, it's a thing people do and the signs here are not good. I'd put money on "the kiss" being more than a kiss—and, in the name of transparency, I remember when "the kiss" confession turned out to be a sideways confession of more bases covered with more people, though fortunately I'd already pulled the plug by then. But I'd also put money on you already knowing all that.

The question that often doesn't get asked in these scenarios is perhaps the most important one: Do you want to stay in your marriage?

If the answer is yes, knowing what you know right now, there is no shame in that. But you've got to approach it all from that angle. No, that does't mean freaking out, accusing, crying. That's a man whose bruised ego has become his motor. It means being your highest self—the man you want a woman, this woman, to be married to. It means stepping up where you've maybe slipped while, parallel to that, getting really in touch with your own spine, so it can prop you up and keep those eyes open. A talk with a lawyer about things can't hurt either—to give you a little bounce in your step. I live hand to mouth, draining my checking account to zero every month, but that's because I hide money from myself in other accounts to keep me calm. The chat with the lawyer is your rainy day account—there should you need it.

Right now you're in a bind. You could bring it all up without quite bringing it all up, meaning you leave out the bit about looking through her phone. That makes you shady and gives her room to stay in the shade. It's not a real conversation, but shouts and whispers in the shade. Skip that. Or you could come right out and say what you found, calmly, and that you're concerned. To which she will likely say, "Oh, it was a dumb exchange with the entertainment, I was buzzed, it was nothing, I never met up with him." And she might be being honest. She might not. Not knowing will take what you do know and put it, along with your already fragile emotional equilibrium, into the paper shredder.

I say skip that too, for now, if you want to stay married. Highest self plus observation will give you some answers, at least toward the next step.

Sorry you're going through this. I've never been married, no kids, have yet to get that intwined with another life. I'll say this, though: When I suspected my ex was cheating on me I knew I wanted to be with her, even if she was. I liked who I was during those months, even as things unraveled. It was who I wanted to be in the world and in a relationship. I didn't like what I was observing, so I cashed out. I don't self define as a "doormat" or someone who got "played." I just eventually had to admit she wasn't someone I could be myself alongside, and vise versa, and the cheating was just the sharpest edge of the long knife that had been doing damage for years. And we both, in ways, forged that knife, even if I get to stand on some higher ground for not sharpening the edge.

It's your call, but I'd think about what the lesser of two evils are--staying for the sake of not repeating the past, or having your children witness their mother's constant infidelities. Children learn by example, therefore what lessons would you be teaching them?

On the other hand by offering her a do or die plan for marriage counselling, may just cause her to start singing a different tune.

Little addition: Being that she is so averse to counseling, why not just go yourself?

It will help you regardless of where this all lands. Also—and I really don't mean this as a tactic—it will send a message to her that you are processing something, exploring something. For all the lame stigma still surrounding therapy, the fact of the matter is people in therapy are often kind of intimidating. They are looking in dark corners, with clear eyes. But unlike people who are living in the shade, there is no shame in trying to find more of yourself alongside a therapist.

Just a thought. It's like training for the marathon even if you don't end up running it. You're still a better runner.

Yes, we have been together since 2005 - and I have been loyal that whole time.

Are you really saying that since knowing each other from 2005, you have contributed nothing, nothing at all to the dynamic of this relationship? I'm not talking about infidelity or cheating either. I'm talking about contributions to an unhealthy dynamic between the both of you - trust issues, disregard for each others' feelings, neglect on both sides and lack of effort in general. Part of growing together as a couple is acknowledging mistakes on both parts and growing from those mistakes. Placing all the blame on one person despite her terrible choices now isn't going to help you let go of the marriage if you end up having to let go of it. If doing therapy is what helps you reach a point where you are able to be more candid with yourself about how your actions and behaviours (along with hers) have added up to this, I think you might stand a shot at actually understanding what went wrong in your marriage OR why both of you made the mistake of marrying each other in the first place.

Your priority right now is really to your kids and yourself. She's checked out emotionally and doesn't seem to care what you think. You mentioned bringing up some issues and her brushing you aside. She doesn't like you. She isn't even bothered if you are suspicious. If this doesn't say resentment, I don't know what does. Yes, go for the therapy because I think it will help uncover the other sides of the story and help unpack all those other layers, private and painful layers that have accumulated over the years.

Don't be afraid of change or pain. Don't blind yourself either.

Are you really saying that since knowing each other from 2005, you have contributed nothing, nothing at all to the dynamic of this relationship? I'm not talking about infidelity or cheating either. I'm talking about contributions to an unhealthy dynamic between the both of you - trust issues, disregard for each others' feelings, neglect on both sides and lack of effort in general. Part of growing together as a couple is acknowledging mistakes on both parts and growing from those mistakes. Placing all the blame on one person despite her terrible choices now isn't going to help you let go of the marriage if you end up having to let go of it. If doing therapy is what helps you reach a point where you are able to be more candid with yourself about how your actions and behaviours (along with hers) have added up to this, I think you might stand a shot at actually understanding what went wrong in your marriage OR why both of you made the mistake of marrying each other in the first place.

My ex husband was a cheater. I was a good wife and I stand by that. I didn't deserve his crap.

Some people are just d*cks who are too selfish to care what their actions do to others.

Sorry to hear that, Sherry. These kinds of threads always stir the pot. I don't disagree that there are total jerks.

The behaviour of going out consistently, the multiple social media accounts or usage of social media to meet people, her choice in extramarital friendships/meet ups (the goofy model and his bumbling text messages). These seem like someone on the other side who's grasping at straws, desperate, hopeless and ultimately, deeply resentful and equally upset about her marriage. If she really was earnest about having an affair or affairs, she wouldn't be careless and crashing around like a hippo at a tea party. If she's defensive about counselling as well or defensive in general, this person (in my mind) is tired of hearing complaints. She's totally desensitized and immune to his concerns and she just doesn't think his opinion matters. I think it's between the OP and his wife to uncover why she's given up on the marriage in general. If she doesn't want to do that (no counselling, not able to talk with him), I think the marriage is over. I hope for his sake he speaks with a lawyer.

It really could just boil down to the fact that she enjoys cheating and will never be a loyal person no matter who she is married to.

Maybe she has no clue how to be happy with just one man and is too selfish and immature to care.

Either way, I do think he needs to see a divorce lawyer.

OP, I have heard the excuse/reason ten million times over about staying for the kids sake. But what kind of scenario are you going to be asking your kids to live in when Dad is really unhappy and Mom is sleeping with whoever?

It's not healthy in the least and it's not right to bring kids up in that kind of environment.

In the long run, you'd be doing them a favour by ending a toxic marriage.

Having been through a few of these type scenarios, i don't like what I am reading. I think you are still in the fantasy stages of hopefullness. I wish you all the luck but if I were you I would focus on what you should do in preperation for divorce. I hate saying this, but I wish I had focused on that instead of saving what I had. It was a futal cause. I wish you success, but I suggest you consider how you need to protect yourself from how a divorce may become a business transaction and think that through. Good luck. I hope I am completely off base.

I’m so sorry. Like James, BC, Sherry, Lost and possibly some others, I too have lived this scenario more than a few times. It hurts like a mutha and really erodes your self esteem and confidence...Horrible stuff*

You’re already getting some great advice from the top posters in this forum so I’ll just add this: You mentioned staying for the children and not being able to start your career again...I’ve been there as well. I’ve had to restart my life more times than a lawn mower. I’ve had around 35 different jobs! Maybe more, I lost count. This last time was at the ripe old age of 50...!

And you know what? Every time it’s worked out ok. You can do it if you really need to.

Staying in a relationship where there is infidelity going will drive you into a straight jacket. You will become hyper vigilant, hyper jealous, hyper suspicious, very angry and lastly, very depressed.

I’m not really sure what the answer is and I do hope you can work it out...But l just want to reiterate this: Yes you may have contributed to the issues in your marriage, but if cheating is how somebody decides to deal with those issues that is 100% on them, nothing to do with you ok!?

Sending you strength for the journey ahead*

Carus*

"Or do I just keep my mouth shut and hope that this doesn't happen again?"

- I think you already know the answer to that question.

"If I confront her about it, she would just deny like the other time."

- You have no choice.

Unless cornered seasoned cheaters NEVER admit to anything. The novice, one time, big mistake cheater maybe/yes, not the serial cheater.

The problem is you have to know, and with that information you can make informed choices.

How to:

When/where there can be no interruptions; kids with babysitter, all phones off no appointments for at least one hour etc. (Don't include her in the preparations!)

Face to face ask her: "Are you seeing another man"?

Watch her eyes when asking this question. As she answers, DO NOT for even an instant take your gaze off her EYES!

Pay attention to her body movements but do not break eye contact.

Memorize what you see!

Did she interrupt you surprised at such a question and answer empathically no?

Did her eyes flick away slightly and answer sort of robotically no?

Did she look away, get mad and stand up and start blaming you for everything?

Did she look up and answer like she reading a script off the ceiling?

The answer to your question is hidden in one of those lines.

Perhaps go back to counselling to open lines of communication again. It may provide a safe place to get to the root of things, why she lies and needs this much extracurricular male attention. Often people go through phones because they suspect something, but then don't use the info they find because they don't want to admit to snooping. A real catch-22. Confront things in therapy.

After some counselling, we seemed to get back the spark and we then had our 2nd child.

Confused,

Those that know me in real life and even on here know I am a pretty strong man with a lot of character that I continually build on each day. I don't take crap from anyone and I am pretty darn self assured. Having said all that you would think this guy tossed his wife out as soon as he had proof she was cheating. I gave her 3 chances but I am not embarrassed that I did. I hadn't found this place yet and even if I had I might have done the same thing. I think the chances I gave her were not for her, but for me so I didn't have to face the unknown, a divorce, my son, my family and friends. I wanted the easy way out with as little pain as possible. I am human like you.

Long story short my ex wife kept cheating with the same loser but attempted to hide it better. It didn't work and eventually I pulled my head out of my butt and did what HAD to be done. Now I look at what she did to our family as a huge favor. She is still the same selfish bitter person that can't seem to be happy like she has always been and I am happier now than anytime with her. My son and I are close and talk frequently and most of all he trusts me and respects me.

You can come up with a thousand excuses to stay and just survive but at what cost? Your soul will be lost to this if you simply ignore it.

There is no rush to act as you wrap your head around all this (I know your head is spinning and you cannot get the thoughts out of your head) but you need to take action on the things you can control.

Get some legal advice. Even if it is Google searches just to give you an idea what you may be facing.

Be realistic. Why would you need to start a new career? Do you work for her dad?

Do some reading on how what you are proposing will affect your children. Don't think for a moment they will not figure this all out because they will and they will be affected by being raised by a shell of a man.

You are not in a strong enough position emotionally or factually to confront her so be patient and keep getting stronger while you gather more proof. The proof is more for you than to confront her with. Once you know for sure you don't really need to hear her say "Yes I am screwing other men"

Be good to yourself and DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF not matter what anyone says. This is not your fault, cheating is never the fault of the victim. During the time you are getting your feet back under you focus on your children and making that relationship as awesome as possible.

In the end you need to remember you have a choice in all this. What you choose takes time, knowledge and a lot of strength.

Keep posting, it will help

Lost