Question about breakup - PLEASE HELP IMMEDIATELY!

I want to try to keep this simple and short, but it's a little more complicated so bare with me.

Here is the short explanation of my ex:

I met this about 7 months ago, we hit it off really well and would talk for hours a day. Our relationship wasn't perfect and we had our ups and downs but for the most part it was really good.

She is nothing like most women I've dated, she is a lawyer and is really different mentally from most women. For example, she waited 4 months before we had sex to make sure I'm the right one. She moves really slow in relationships and although she trusted me that trust was hard to earn.

She has had one incident in her life where a guy she was dating and trusted ending up raping another woman, and I think because of that she has this need to really know someone before she commits to them.

She is 29 and I'm 34.

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On to what happened:

She has been going through an insane amount of stress this past month, working daily from 8am to 12am. She has always worked hard but this month was extra bad for her, and the same for me, I got a new job that was really challenging, some really bad drama with family and a death in the family. This has probably been the worst 2 months of my life, and it carried over to our relationship.

It carried over in ways that were really bad, like thinking about dumping her every time we had conflict, snapping at her, being irrational with my emotions and playing mind games/being vengeful when she did stuff that I disliked. I was simply not myself.

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So the breakup:

Last Friday we were fine and she had wanted me to come to spend the weekend at her place, as we have done many times in the past. I agreed, even though some really bad stuff happened to me that day and I was not my self. I picked her up from work, we went grocery shopping and she turned my mood around a little and we were cracking jokes and having fun.

When we went back to her place to take up the groceries, she got a little impatient with me because I tried to open the wrong door and disagreed with me when I suggested we go up first. She got a little panicky and it got on my nerves, so I put my head back, got awkward with her and that was the beginning of our drama that night.

I let her go up to her place, helped her bring the stuff in silently, then I went back to my car to grab the rest of my stuff. Instead of grabbing it and going back up I spent 10 minutes thinking about what just happened and trying to cool down, thinking if I just go up and apologize we can have a drama-free night.

Instead, I decided to go to Home Depot (took about 45 minutes) to purchase a cable she needed for her TV, before calling her to tell her I was gonna do so.

I came back and I went back upstairs to her, and she asked me what was going on -- I explained to her (in not such a great tone) that I felt like she was nitpicking me and about to start drama. She was a little emotional and said that I was being disrespectful to her and if I didn't stop she needed me to leave. I felt like I was being kicked out, so I grabbed my stuff and left.

I went down to my car, spent about 15 minutes then called her to let me back in. Again, my intention was to apologize but I was so mentally foggy that instead, I ended up arguing with her. This is where it got really bad, after arguing for a bit I thought things were calming down so I decided to start joking with her -- a joke I severely regret and have no idea where it came from. I didn't physically threaten her in the joke (I have never laid a hand on a woman and never would) but I was saying stuff that made her feel uncomfortable. I didn't pick up on her discomfort and instead interpreted as her being cold again and not wanting to work on things, so again, I left.

On my way down, out of anger and impulse, I called her and told her we should be done -- she agreed without hesitation. If that isn't bad enough, I then called her back and realized I didn't want her to be gone, so I asked her to forgive me and asked her what's going on -- she explained she felt physically unsafe from me and immediately I started to panic wondering how and why that would happen as I couldn't even hurt a fly.

We spent a couple of hours on the phone, where she wouldn't let me back in, and towards the end of the phone call we settled on that she will reach out to me the next day about whether she wants to continue this relationship or not. We had one last call where I broke down crying from all the stuff happening in my life. Then I went to sleep.

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It continues...

The next day she calls me and tells me she doesn't want to dump me, but she wants 2 conditions if we are to continue dating

1) She wants us to see a relationship counselor (something I'm totally behind)

But then there was 2) She didn't want to see me in private for a few dates and only in public to regain her trust that I wasn't some crazy dude who was gonna hurt her physically.

The second one really hit hard, and I not only took it as an insult but a blow to my personality but I simply would never hurt a woman. I had a hard time accepting it but I ended up agreeing. We ended the call.

After sitting there and brooding more and more about the second condition, I decided to do something I severely regret which is to play mind games to hopefully make her reconsider condition 2. So basically what I did was I told her if we are going to meet in public and she was afraid of me physically then I don't want to get in trouble with the law if she misinterprets my actions during our public dates or over the phone. I said I have to record all our calls, and in public, we cannot touch and we have to exit and enter places separately. Again, this was a mind game that was supposed to get her to reconsider her second condition, one with hindsight sounds absolutely stupid and bad.

Nonetheless, somehow out of patience and her deep care for me she agreed to this new condition, and we ended the call on a good note. Hours passed and we didnt text or talk as she was woring and out watching a movie with her brother. Later that night around 9pm, she texted me "how was your day" an hour later I replied "Good, yours?" and received no response from her.

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The breakup.

For some really stupid reason that same night, mostly out of mental fog, the relationship drama, and everything else happening in my life -- I was having a really hard time sleeping. And so I texted her at 3am saying really stupid like "I hope today will also be another good day because I haven't physically assaulted anyone" followed by an even dumber text of "but maybe that's just because I'm running on no sleep"

So yeah, you can see how bad I ed up this entire thing, and those two texts were the final straw that morning.

When she woke up, she texted me at 9am with a pretty cold and straightforward message "This is over, I don't want to see you again and please never contact me again. If you want any of your stuff back let me know"

At first, I was stunned and replied with stuff like "wow can you at least have the respect and decency to dump me over a phone call and not texts, after all, we have been through?" She kept ignoring those texts and kept talking about what stuff I wanted back and sent me a list of the stuff in total. After a few more exchanges about the stuff, she asked again what stuff I wanted back and I replied with a lengthy text about how I needed a few days to digest this and hope that during that time she will cool down and at least dump me over the phone more gracefully.

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The aftermath.

She dumped me on Sunday morning and my last text to her about how I need some time to digest all this was sent at 1pm.

She didn't reply to my text and I guess didn't see a reason or need to fulfill my request of calling me and dumping me. Instead, we went communication silent all the way from 1pm Sunday to today which is Wednesday. Basically, she sent me a simple text saying "When you can, please let me know what things you'd like back" to which I replied a light-hearted joke about how she hasn't donated it or pawned it yet? I also said I was kidding and would reach out to her tonight about the stuff. I sent a second text saying I don't know if it matters at this point but I sincerely apologize for the way I acted and hope she has a good day. My plan tonight is to call her at 8, and hopefully if she picks up, give her a speech I've been working on (see below) -- if she doesn't, then to send her a couple of texts to outline the stuff I mention below.

It seems like she has completely shut down and is over this relationship, but still wants to make sure she gives me what I back?

By the way, during our silence, I wrote a little speech to say to her about what happened during our radio silence, and even a text in case she didn't want to answer her phone. Basically, it's a lighthearted 'speech' of the things that have happened since our breakup, which has included me seeing a therapist on Tuesday and making a real effort to better control all the stress in my life. It is an explanation of why I acted the way I did from all the crap happening in my life to what I am doing to take control of it to an apology and asking her to not throw away the wonderful 7 months we've had over this 1 incident and to give me another chance.

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So what now....

So I'm posting all this to ask a few questions.

1) Is this relationship, given the information you now know, completely over? I find it hard to believe someone who was so close to me and talked to me for 3-4 hours daily for 7 months would just completely shut down and let me go over this one incident. Especially when it seemed like her breakup with me was out of frustration and anger, because I kept egging her on.

2) Should I talk to her tonight or tell her I can't and need to take a couple more days? I ask because I fear that she is still bitter over the breakup and not in a place to hear me out and accept my apology and allow me to mend the damage I caused especially knowing I am now on a new path to change the behaviors that led to our breakup.

3) Really any advice you have would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone!

You are dealing with a high value woman that likely has no desire for a relationship with this much conflict... you were making passive aggressive “jokes” about things you knew would hurt her... you say and do cruel things and apologize after... you power text her to try and get her to see your side instead of trying to understand where she is coming from... sorry doesn’t mean a whole lot if the behaviour never changes.

Going through a difficult time is not an excuse to act like an a$$hole and is likely indicative of how you will handle difficult situations going forward, unless you decide to do some serious work on yourself.

At the end of the day who knows what she will decide, if it were me I would chalk it up to the honeymoon being over and move on, but then I have zero tolerance for that sort of thing in my life today.

I would stop interacting with her completely. You two are toxic together and at only 7 months this is alarming on several levels. I always had incredibly high stress jobs for close to 15 years of the time I was dating (until I was 39 when I started dating my husband) and I will admit I did lose it more than once - meaning I was irritable, cranky, angry, nitpicky, stressed out. No not violent, not abusive. But I can relate to feeling so stressed out and burnt out and unfortunately subjecting my partner to it. It only worked because he could relate, he was in a similar kind of job, and we loved each other in those situations.

Do not try to contact her again. You've said all you need to say. 7 months is not a short time but not a long time. It doesn't matter how often you spoke or saw each other -you get to know someone over a period of time, not compressed into 7 months. You're playing with fire and risking all sorts of trouble in your life even if you see her in public. Leave it be and move on. I'm sorry you're disappointed.

You need to be forthcoming with what exactly you joked about that would make her feel physically uncomfortable.

What exactly are these "mental fogs" you are talking about?

Why are you admittedly playing mind games?

1) It sounds like it is pretty much over. Seems like you two have tried to get it off the ground again, but you reverted right back to your old ways.

2) No, probably not. Cool off a bit for a while and give it time to hear advice from the forum before you proceed.

3) I think you need to give us some clarity about specific situations so we can be more helpful. (i.e. what exactly you said/did/joked about to make her want these public meeting conditions. This might sound harsh but you need to work on your maturity and how you handle conflict.

Yeah i would give up on her. She sounds like she doesn't really have any time in her life for you going through a hard time, what kind of partner is that when a family member dies? Not one i'd want for sure. I'd bet money on it that if this didn't happen and you got ill or had an accident etc down the line she would dump you then anyway.

On your part those text messages were stupid, incredibly passive agressive and if you weren't grieving i could understand why she got all hostile but there is stuff in the background here beyond anyones power. Never play mind games. Learn this lesson.

I would be thankful it went just the 6 months and ended there as it doesn't sound promising in the long term regardless.

This relationship is over and it needs to stay over. It’s not a good situation for either of you - and quite frankly, I think since she’s a lawyer, you could find yourself in a tough situation if you don’t simply let it end.

I do hope that you keep your session with the therapist, though. I’m not trying to be judgey - but you seem to have some very unhealthy coping mechanisms and communication issues. Rather than communicate how you feel and what’s going on, you seem to have a tendency to resort to manipulation and “punishment”. This will never lead to a healthy dynamic.

For example (for reflection) - when you were frustrated and left for Home Depot. It’s perfectly reasonable to get frustrated and want to disconnect and cool down. A healthy way to do that is to say “hey - listen - I’m feeling a little flustered. I’m just going to go do some errands and I’ll be back in a bit”. But I’m sure you know this? What happens when you get flustered at work, etc? If you are honest, a part of you wanted to fret and worry and wonder what she did wrong. You wanted to punish her.

Another example is when you added additional conditions to wanting to get together. You didn’t really want that. You admit yourself you were trying to be manipulative. The healthy and mature way to deal with this is to discuss and to respect her opinions, experience and boundaries - and accept her right to self-determination - even if it means not getting “your way”.

Add to all this that she felt physically threatened (whether you think that’s reasonable or not...)

It’s done.

IMO - you need to learn how to have mature, difficult conversations with a partner. You need to learn to respect their right to self-determination and individuality. And to me, this is a communication style - not simply a “bad day” (which we are all entitled to have and to be cranky sometimes) if you want to build a healthy relationship with the next person

I find it hard to believe someone who was so close to me and talked to me for 3-4 hours daily for 7 months would just completely shut down and let me go over this one incident.

When you suggest it was one incident, it feels very much like an attempt to minimize a series of events that led to her assessment and ultimately led her to end the relationship.

I can't say I blame her.

I understand you were under a lot of pressure, but it's your choice on how you want to handle your frustrations and you admittedly took them out on her.

These are the consequences of your lack of self control.

Short answers to your questions:

1. Yes, completely over.

2. No call. See answer 1 for explanation.

To the unpacking...

Simply put, you plus her equals toxic. The most generous read on it all is that you are both fine people who are the opposite of fine together, much the way certain chemicals are harmless on their own, but, when mixed, burn down laboratories. Seven months with a new romantic prospect should feel more or less like a cakewalk, not a pendulum swing between a cold war and a nuclear war with little peace treaties signed along the way. Look at this with clear eyes—if you can find them through the fog—and I think you'll see that those seven months are the story of something that was always a little fraught getting more and more fraught, until shattering.

Yes, I know, there were also good times, warm moments, lovely stretches. People can enjoy a martini during a hurricane, remember. The hurricane, in ways, makes the martini even more enjoyable—until the winds destroy the house. Because a hurricane is an f'ing hurricane. You plus her is a hurricane.

Being frank here? If she were my friend—and, mind you, I am writing this for you, as your forum friend—but if she was my friend the advice I would give her is to never talk to you again. I would say that you are a bit of hurricane yourself, and she needs to seek shelter. But she doesn't need me. She already sees that, is doing it. She knows herself, her worth, and the fact of the matter is that you stepped all over it, over and over and over. We all have a threshold for how much disrespect we can take. You exceeded hers, heroically.

The Night Of The Home Depot Incident, I hope, can be a night you remember and can look back on as a template for exactly who you do not want to be in the world—not in your own skin, not to any woman. You took a small moment of discomfort—a slight edginess on her part—and poured kerosene on it, repeatedly, in order to feel more comfortable. Nothing excuses that—no family deaths, no struggles at work, no mental fog. Nothing. The part to focus on, for your own growth, is that you knew that but your response to that knowledge was to do it again, like a junkie who knows the dirty needle and what's inside it might kill him but sticks it in his arm (and between his fingers and toes) anyway. Except it was not your arm or toes. It was another human being.

That sounds harsh, I know. I mean it to sound harsh. At the same time, people suck from time to time. I sometimes suck. It does happen. She gave you an opening to stop sucking—she forgave all that, with some caveats. Your response? It was to suck harder. That is not me saying you're awful—I don't think you are—but to go back to be main point of you plus her equally toxic. For some reason, she brings this out in you. You, it seems, do not bring out parts of her that she much likes. Hence she does not want to be with you. She is choosing sobriety over drugs, salads over candy, running shoes over a pickaxe to the knees.

I suggest you do the same. I also suggest you let these 7 months humble you a bit, trigger some reflection. You are showing a tendency to react in dangerous ways to what are, in the end, very typical moments in life: work, death, romance. You are kind of turning clouds into hurricanes, in other words, which does not make for a smooth ride and does not make you someone people will trust on a trip.

You wrote a lot of things, however after 7 mos of dating, it's clear you are simply incompatible. You get on each other's nerves and argue way to much over nonsense.

Your ideas are a bit left field. I'm curious what you do for work. No one likes mind games and I think from your desire to play them or use them, you've already felt out of your league from day one (not in control of the situation). Go over any major insecurities you have with yourself. I think it has a lot to do with how you identify yourself and where you see yourself in your own career, how positive you feel about your own direction in life and where you're headed.

You've weaseled and manipulated the situation enough and used your grief as a scapegoat enough too. Come out of all that. Grieve if you need to grieve. Don't be a doormat and don't treat people badly just because you're feeling hurt. I think things snowballed because deep down you don't feel good about yourself.

As for her, I think she takes herself too seriously. She's at a different point in her life and is working on other things. Arguably she is so swamped with her work, she's a bit of a doorknob when it comes to relationships. How she ever ended up with a guy like you is anyone's guess. She shouldn't be dating and I hope she sees a therapist also. She's hesitant, not very confident and I believe that her hesitancy actually added to your fears and original insecurities. Both of you are wobbly and neither of you are steady. Time to take her off that pedestal.

Don't rekindle anything. It makes you look like more of a weasel. Learn from the mistakes and don't stand for someone who doesn't have time for you either or who doesn't offer a fulfilling enough relationship, regardless of that person's personality or their career.

I feel like you're leaving out some critical pieces of information here, OP.

I don't really understand what happened here: "When we went back to her place to take up the groceries, she got a little impatient with me because I tried to open the wrong door and disagreed with me when I suggested we go up first. She got a little panicky and it got on my nerves, so I put my head back, got awkward with her" Go up where first? What do you mean you put your head back? How did you get awkward?

You also said this: "It carried over in ways that were really bad, like thinking about dumping her every time we had conflict, snapping at her, being irrational with my emotions and playing mind games/being vengeful when she did stuff that I disliked." Did you tell her you were thinking about dumping her? How often were you snapping at her? In what ways did you play mind games and behaved vengefully?

Then there is this: "I decided to start joking with her -- a joke I severely regret and have no idea where it came from. I didn't physically threaten her in the joke (I have never laid a hand on a woman and never would) but I was saying stuff that made her feel uncomfortable." What exactly was this joke, OP?

It sounds to me like you don't have much control over your emotions and often behave impulsively. Only after you realize she is upset or hurt do you back-pedal and couch it as a joke or just going to Home Depot. You driving off and not telling her you were leaving looks an awful lot like a tantrum and one of the vengeful mind games you admit you play, not just a random trip to get a TV cable. She saw right through that one, dude.

From where I sit, based on your description, this relationship involved a significant amount of drama and this was not the first time she had seen this side of you. This break-up is not about one incidcent, but a culmination of problems. You lack insight into your own behaviour, as evidenced by the fact that you feel she owes you a graceful phone dumping when you in fact did this: "On my way down, out of anger and impulse, I called her and told her we should be done." Your sense of entitlement throughout this whole situation is mind-boggling.

Anyway, no, I don't think you two will reconcile. And that's probably for the best. If you're already considering couple's counselling after just 7 months, you might as well concede that you two don't work together as a couple. She sounds very done. What you be wise to do from here is get your emotions in order and learn to deal with anger, insecurity and frustration is less destructive ways. If you don't, you will find it very difficult to maintain a relationship.

There will be lots more drama if you keep pulling the old "went to Home Depot" trick and other passive-aggressive stuff like that.

This is not a good sign🤯:

She didn't want to see me in private for a few dates and only in public to regain her trust that I wasn't some crazy dude who was gonna hurt her physically.

which has included me seeing a therapist on Tuesday and making a real effort to better control all the stress in my life.

IMO, while in therapy and working to fix yourself, usually not a good idea to be in a relationship.

Simply put, you plus her equals toxic. The most generous read on it all is that you are both fine people who are the opposite of fine together, much the way certain chemicals are harmless on their own, but, when mixed, burn down laboratories. Seven months with a new romantic prospect should feel more or less like a cakewalk, not a pendulum swing between a cold war and a nuclear war with little peace treaties signed along the way.

Just wanted to say that bluecastle, you have the absolute best analogies.

Just wanted to say that bluecastle, you have the absolute best analogies.

Awww, thank you. While I enjoy a good turn of phrase the way I enjoy an aged whiskey, I'm a firm believer that the right turns can help get people turned in the right direction.

1) Is this relationship, given the information you now know, completely over? I find it hard to believe someone who was so close to me and talked to me for 3-4 hours daily for 7 months would just completely shut down and let me go over this one incident.

Yeah, one hostile temper tantrum is usually all it takes for a healthy person to say 'never again'. Why would you expect her to put up with another one?

My guess is that your jokes weren’t jokes. Or at least something you don’t joke about, like kicking down a door if she doesn’t agree to let you in.

It’s been my experience, from 18 years in law enforcement, that people like you minimize your end of an argument. IE making jokes that made her uncomfortable but you’re quick to explain you’ve never put your hands on a woman. There’s several ways to make someone feel uncomfortable without eluding to violence. The fact that you’re quick to qualify the joke with the disclaimer that you aren’t violent means that you are. Either physically or emotionally. And you’re trying to make light of something you told her by saying it was just a “joke” caused by a “mental fog”.

Stay away from her. Just her saying she would only meet you in public says enough.