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Thread: I'm not sure if this is considered being sexually taken advantage of

  1. #11
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    Originally Posted by Cherylyn
    Because you thought you'd only remain friends with him, he took the opportunity to have sex with you because you're always available to him. Available meaning, together too much within close proximity. Both of you are guilty of not enforcing strong and very clear boundaries from the very beginning of your friendship. He obviously had other ideas in mind.

    You never said yes but you didn't say no either. You caved so it was consensual.

    If you wish to avoid either a compromising predicament or entrapment in the future, don't place yourself in a vulnerable situation. With many scenarios, you shouldn't be 1:1 with a man because in some cases, date rape is all too common and most of them are unreported.

    I've heard stories similar to yours. Don't be at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong man. Know how to stay safe.
    Wait a minute, you are saying she's naive but if this guy had never tried anything before that then how could she have known that he would force himself on her? I think there is nothing wrong with having male friends. I have male friends and none of them have done anything like this to me. She did actually say "no" to him a number of times and that she didn't want to do anything, but he didn't listen and continued. In this sense I feel like she did what she could and she told him outright that she didn't want to do anything. I don't understand why you're kind of "victim blaming" here Cherylyn.

    You're saying that she should never be alone with a man but really isn't it the man's responsibility to be a good person and not sexually assault his female friend? I have male friends and I should be allowed to be one-on-one with them without being taken advantage of because I'm relying on my male friends to be an actual decent human being.

  2. #12

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    Thank you, I did feel like it was my fault for letting it continue but like I've stated earlier, I didn't think he was going to listen to me.

  3. #13

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    Originally Posted by Tinydance
    Wait a minute, you are saying she's naive but if this guy had never tried anything before that then how could she have known that he would force himself on her? I think there is nothing wrong with having male friends. I have male friends and none of them have done anything like this to me. She did actually say "no" to him a number of times and that she didn't want to do anything, but he didn't listen and continued. In this sense I feel like she did what she could and she told him outright that she didn't want to do anything. I don't understand why you're kind of "victim blaming" here Cherylyn.

    You're saying that she should never be alone with a man but really isn't it the man's responsibility to be a good person and not sexually assault his female friend? I have male friends and I should be allowed to be one-on-one with them without being taken advantage of because I'm relying on my male friends to be an actual decent human being.

    Thank you, I did feel like it was my fault for letting it continue but like I've stated earlier, I didn't think he was going to listen to me.

  4. #14
    Platinum Member Cherylyn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tinydance
    Wait a minute, you are saying she's naive but if this guy had never tried anything before that then how could she have known that he would force himself on her? I think there is nothing wrong with having male friends. I have male friends and none of them have done anything like this to me. She did actually say "no" to him a number of times and that she didn't want to do anything, but he didn't listen and continued. In this sense I feel like she did what she could and she told him outright that she didn't want to do anything. I don't understand why you're kind of "victim blaming" here Cherylyn.

    You're saying that she should never be alone with a man but really isn't it the man's responsibility to be a good person and not sexually assault his female friend? I have male friends and I should be allowed to be one-on-one with them without being taken advantage of because I'm relying on my male friends to be an actual decent human being.
    I'm saying that young women in particular are indeed naive if they're very trusting of men in general. Just because a guy didn't force himself on a woman, there's no telling when it could happen.

    My friend told me she has a nice male friend. They went to museums together, out to eat for MONTHS, enjoyed mutual social circles and all was seemingly innocuous. Then when he invited her to his apartment, she thought she'd just hang out and chat just like pals. WRONG!!! He chased her in his apartment, threw her on his bed, forced himself on her and fortunately, she was able to fight him off but not without intense struggle. She basically ran for her life out of his apartment! The worst part was he was her colleague and they had to pretend that nothing happened. She certainly couldn't prove it either.

    "Victim blaming" comes from naivete and lack of experience when it comes to worldly behavior. Street smarts hadn't been developed yet.

    I'm glad you have wonderful male friends and none of them ever attacked you nor took advantage of you. I'm just saying that you can't trust every man with an enclosed situation with zero witnesses to be had. As a woman, you place yourself in dicey situations when assaults could've been avoidable and preventable. If you're at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong guy and it's just 1:1, good luck. This can't end well and you do so at your own risk.

    Trust with a man needs to cultivated, nurtured and maintained for a very long time and even then it can be a gamble depending upon a vulnerable situation, ulterior motives in advance and timely temptation which ends in force.

    Date rape is very real. Some men even sprinkle tasteless, non-visible and odorless drugs in drinks and the poor woman wakes up dazed and confused following rape. Most rapes are unreported. It's the way of the world, unfortunately.

    When I was newly married and living in an apartment on the 2nd floor, at 2AM, I overheard a young woman sobbing next to a pillar at my carport across the alley. I could see her from my window. I opened my window and asked her if I should call the police for her. She declined and said that after her date rape, no one would've believe her. She knew she was hosed. There were no witnesses and it was just her and her male friend in his apartment. It would be her word against his and everyone would surmise it was consensual. This is all too common, unfortunately.

    A church friend was gang raped when she was in her early 20s. She was with male friends whom she thought she could trust. It was at a party, there were drinks and it was all bad. To this day, she is haunted by her worst nightmare.

    I've been lucky in my life. I've never had male friends. (I'm thankful I wasn't popular!) I socialized in groups only which was safer. I followed my mother's wise advice regarding how women should remain safe which meant never being ALONE. I was very sheltered and went straight from my home to marriage and having a family.

    There's nothing wrong with having trustful male friends which I think is great. I prefer to err on the side of caution by playing it safe in the first place IMHO. For women, it's better not to live with a world of regrets later when forced advances could've been avoidable and preventable.

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  6. #15
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    I've always had male friends and been alone with men many many times including ones I was dating and ones I was not. The only times I was assaulted (twice and I dated for 24 years on and off and I've had male friends for almost 40 years) were by men I did not know well but knew there was an attraction (in one case a second date, in another someone I met at Club Med who was drunk). I made a mistake in being alone with them and luckily it was only assault. But it didn't have to do with them being men. It had to do with them being near strangers and jerks in those situations. Just like a woman I did not know could have assaulted or robbed me. I am not naive and I believe in being cautious and careful and safe but not from the perspective that men will act on sexual attraction just because they feel it. They will act on it in a jerky way or a dangerous or evil way if the particular individual has values which justify that behavior. Not because he is attracted and "cannot help it" and absolutely not because he is male. It is unwise to invite a person you don't know well who is drunk into your private space, whatever gender.

    I do regret inviting those men who assaulted me into my private space -I was trying to be "cool" and acted in an unsafe way. And I also was a victim. I also was assaulted by a group of four young women in broad daylight during the end of rush hour on a train in a major city. Unprovoked. Was I unsafe because I chose to ride a train on the way to a job interview at around 9am?

    I would feel very unlucky if I never had had (and have) male friends. Some of the most special people I know and have known. And absolutely has made me a better wife not because all men are the same but certainly being close with and communicating with men over the years certainly lends a healthy perspective to relating to men. I'd feel sad for myself if I believed that men of integrity of character would act on sexual attraction without consent from the woman because it was an innate part of being male. I know it is not. And it's a shame when men are labeled that way.

    OP -have male friends. Don't play with fire. Be clear and direct in your communication about what will and what will not happen. Stay sober around men you don't know well and don't be alone with a man who is drunk not because he can't help himself but if he chose to get drunk he chooses the consequences and if he chooses to be around you when his judgment is clouded he might act in ways that are unsafe. It's just common sense. But please do enjoy friendships with men and don't judge 'men" based on this jerk's behavior. I think he was a jerk because he made assumptions after you said no. I don't know how to label it and I wasn't there -I could see where he could say he was confused because you said no and your actions were inconsistent because you didn't push him off you. I think at the very least he acted like a jerk in dismissing your "no" and in pinning you down, etc. (pinning down is fine and fun with someone you're already involved with where consent is assumed -and both people enjoy that sort of thing but he knew you two were just friends and you'd invited him over to have a heart to heart platonically).

  7. #16
    Platinum Member Cherylyn's Avatar
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    The majority of rapes and molestation to women (sometimes men) and children are committed by known perpetrators, acquaintances, friends, spouse, relatives, etc. Beware.

    By all means, have great male friends. Just remember: Safety in numbers.

  8. #17
    Platinum Member Cherylyn's Avatar
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    It's common sense that whenever you're surrounded by witnesses, people have a tendency to behave better and self-consciously. No one wants to deal with a snitch.

  9. #18
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    I find some of these comments problematic, especially by Cherylyn. Sorry Cherylyn I don't think that a woman simply just can't have male friends and can't be alone with men at all. Of course it's good to be careful and for example not just go to someone's place that you don't really know.

    But if a woman has had a male friend for a while and it was just friendship, then why is she considered naive if she was spending time alone with this friend? Most men are not predators and will not do this to a woman. I've had some male friends for many years and my partner doesn't mind if I have male friends. Sometimes I was alone with them for whatever reason and they have never done anything to me. Maybe some male friends expressed romantic or sexual interest in me, but when I told them I wasn't interested, they didn't touch me.

    Saying "No, I don't want to do anything" should be more than enough to make that person stop. Just because she didn't physically push or fight the male friend off doesn't mean he had the go ahead to sexually assault her. People shouldn't just act like animals and just because that person wasn't fighting them, to keep sexually touching them. When you hear a "no" that means no.

    Sexual consent needs to be given either verbally or by the person willingly engaging in sex. When the person said: "No, I don't want it", there was no consent.

    Victim blaming is saying the woman deserved it because she wasn't fighting the guy, she was alone with a guy, or had a shorter skirt. She didn't deserve it in any of those cases. Sometimes in summer I might see a guy in a park with no shirt on because it's not. Does that mean he "asked for it" and I can go up to that guy and start sexually touching him?

    We should be allowed to be alone with a friend because that person is supposed to be our FRIEND. By all means they can express that they like us or want sex but they shouldn't be doing anything when they were told "no".

  10. #19

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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I've always had male friends and been alone with men many many times including ones I was dating and ones I was not. The only times I was assaulted (twice and I dated for 24 years on and off and I've had male friends for almost 40 years) were by men I did not know well but knew there was an attraction (in one case a second date, in another someone I met at Club Med who was drunk). I made a mistake in being alone with them and luckily it was only assault. But it didn't have to do with them being men. It had to do with them being near strangers and jerks in those situations. Just like a woman I did not know could have assaulted or robbed me. I am not naive and I believe in being cautious and careful and safe but not from the perspective that men will act on sexual attraction just because they feel it. They will act on it in a jerky way or a dangerous or evil way if the particular individual has values which justify that behavior. Not because he is attracted and "cannot help it" and absolutely not because he is male. It is unwise to invite a person you don't know well who is drunk into your private space, whatever gender.

    I do regret inviting those men who assaulted me into my private space -I was trying to be "cool" and acted in an unsafe way. And I also was a victim. I also was assaulted by a group of four young women in broad daylight during the end of rush hour on a train in a major city. Unprovoked. Was I unsafe because I chose to ride a train on the way to a job interview at around 9am?

    I would feel very unlucky if I never had had (and have) male friends. Some of the most special people I know and have known. And absolutely has made me a better wife not because all men are the same but certainly being close with and communicating with men over the years certainly lends a healthy perspective to relating to men. I'd feel sad for myself if I believed that men of integrity of character would act on sexual attraction without consent from the woman because it was an innate part of being male. I know it is not. And it's a shame when men are labeled that way.

    OP -have male friends. Don't play with fire. Be clear and direct in your communication about what will and what will not happen. Stay sober around men you don't know well and don't be alone with a man who is drunk not because he can't help himself but if he chose to get drunk he chooses the consequences and if he chooses to be around you when his judgment is clouded he might act in ways that are unsafe. It's just common sense. But please do enjoy friendships with men and don't judge 'men" based on this jerk's behavior. I think he was a jerk because he made assumptions after you said no. I don't know how to label it and I wasn't there -I could see where he could say he was confused because you said no and your actions were inconsistent because you didn't push him off you. I think at the very least he acted like a jerk in dismissing your "no" and in pinning you down, etc. (pinning down is fine and fun with someone you're already involved with where consent is assumed -and both people enjoy that sort of thing but he knew you two were just friends and you'd invited him over to have a heart to heart platonically).

    I guess I didn't mention it in my post that I did struggle; I had my legs locked but he pried them apart. At the time, I honestly thought it wasn't going to go anywhere with me saying no but like I've said, because he wasn't listening to me I rolled over in a sense.

  11. #20

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    I've tried editing my post, I was just so eager to write this down and to hide this from my boyfriend that looking back, I did forget to mention that I locked my legs. I did try to push him off but nothing worked. At the time I honestly thought nothing was actually going to happen until it did.

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