Am I a fool?

[Adoormat]

So quickly I want to thank anyone who reads this through and offers advice or experiences. I'm going to try and make this as streamlined as possible.

I met this girl March of this year. I'm 31, she is 30. I want to give you important details first, she is a fulltime single mom of two kids, works a 9-5. Was separated for years but filed for divorce officially during our time together. She came into my place of work. Her coworkers asked for my number for her. She contacted me that night. Within a few days I took her out. We hit it off like I cant even explain. There also was strong chemistry and physical attraction. She invited me to her place after the first date, because she has no one to watch her kids and is weird about always being near them or only her parents can watch them, which they arent fans of doing. So our time was always after they were asleep I would come over. Things became sexual by the third or fourth time I saw her. Everything was fast and intense, typical of a honeymoon phase. I did my best to stay grounded but it felt right so I didnt fight it. This person was reciprocating everything I wanted. I'm very much the loving, loyal, romantic and affectionate type. We saw each other often. We did actually share our lives and communicated well. We did actually get to know each other. A few red flags I believe, she spoke bad on her children's father and was amazed I was respectful about my ex. She also said that her dad was a POS to her and that he was emotionally unavailable and crying was a no. So she said she doesnt cry and its awkward if people do around her. She also said her ex and father of her children would sit and laugh with her dad and uncles and family at get togethers about how fat she had gotten and that he was still attracted to that. I sympathized with her and am a very sweet person so I was kind but didnt pay mind because I was smitten.

I told her I was falling for her and I told her if this was not meant to go anywhere then to let me know now. As I was getting serious and we were clear we wanted this to be permanent. I also said if there is ever a single issue on your mind you come to me, as I wanted communication to be good and also because I can be the anxious type. She reciprocated and said she felt the same. She also said something along the lines of I met you too soon because of her not being divorced on paper and her parents not willing to meet me because of that. A couple months pass and I meet her kids and they love me, even saying things like marry our mom and cheesy kid stuff like that. Everything was fine. Spent time, all of us together, I was there for them in difficult times in multiple ways etc. Almost like a faux family. After about 3 months or so. One day she flipped. I'm very secure in myself and was in this relationship. This was clearly out of the blue. I said to her, is something bothering you? No, I'm fine was the response. In a tone and manner that obviously was not. So for a few days I persisted, and finally attributed it to myself and said ok. I'm sorry if I badgered you, I'm just very intuitive and i can tell. She said something like "im just meh about life." Well it's hard to not take that personally and you want to know you make your partner happy. From that first day, things slowly became worse.

She basically slowly quit doing all the things I loved. I know things settle after the first phase but this was almost changing. I wasnt even personally out of the honeymoon phase. I approached her about things changing and what i was missing, my feelings etc. That first talk she said, "well I'm sorry you feel that way, I cant control how you feel." Wow. Time passes and it gets less and less from her and much more mean. I can almost be over loving at times but she would text me some of the meanest crap but tell me she loved me etc and I would never lose my kindness in my texts. Its embarrassing for me to admit. She stopped making any effort to see me, lost time for me and became aloof. There were a couple times I asked her, "is this something you still want?" Always was yes. But spoke to me through text like a monster.I tried to cut the texting period but it's something I like and hard to avoid these days. Finally a day came I wanted to see her on her lunch, she had stopped coming over to see me. So I said can I come bring you lunch and steal a kiss. She fought me tooth and nail on not having the time for me literally to bring her something and get a peck. That day she said I have 10 mins and no one even you are worth that. I ended it. She didnt care. Or so she said. She had come to unfold into a cold and emotionally unavailable person. I thought maybe I had been too much and the next day we talked and I said I wanted her back and I would focus on my level of intensity and anxiety or jumping to conclusions.

She had quit communicating completely and laughed or scoffed if I said let's talk and if we did would get angry and defensive 2 mins in. No matter my tone. She said she didnt know if she wanted to be back together that next day. And immediately wanted to exchange our things back from our respective places. Here we are now still with I dont know. It's almost been like a FWB situation but strings attached. I've called it off twice, as in never speak or see again. She came back a week after both. She never provides solutions to the "problems." I'm always trying to communicate and make it work. She was emotionally abused. Not sure if physically but threatened I know. And an absent dead best father of her two kids. So she has self admitted that she has no empathy, is borderline sociopathic, stubborn etc. That was the first long text I got the first time I called it off. So you can call me crazy but I want her back as the person I spent the time with before this happened, also I see that person if she has a glass of wine or two. Shes amazing then. Since then and other than that. Mean and angry. But denies it. Told me that she never misses anyone. But i miss you... was the second text the second time I called it off. Now we're here. She has one reason she claims is why she doesnt know if she wants to be with me and I can say for sure its bogus. So I said, be with me, all in, and if I'm this reason you believe you obviously can leave any moment as can I. Still I dont know from her. So I said I'm going.

Maybe time will help you find your answer, I said a few days ago. Well that same day she tells me she wants to see me. Of course I go. And now I'm here. I've researched and talked to everyone. I'm a grown ass man who wants to settle down. I read she could be avoidant type, I read she's emotionally unavailable etc. My mistake is talking to her about these things. She denies all of them and has me thinking it's me. She says its comical I have her all wrong. But has and wont even say one word on how or who she really is then. I just want opinions and advice. I know this wont work if this is who she really is. And all the love I want from whoever I'm with, I have lowered it so much to convince myself she gives me enough and I need too much. I'm a confident guy, but she has me doubting myself. I'm done. Would love any responses. Again thank you for reading. I tried to fit the most important points or red flags, I guess you'd say, in here. I think I have more. But yeah. Help. I fear I just dont want to believe I was tricked and have to go through the pain of letting go completely. Thanks again..I will elaborate or answer any questions.

[bluecastle]

Sorry for the hurt and confusion, friend.

I can't help but feel, reading this, that you already know the answer. In a word: it's probably time to run. If you look at this clearly, I think you'll see that the good times, which at 5-6 months should still just be expanding and blossoming, have been in the rearview mirror for some time. Stay in this and, odds are, they're just going to keep receding further, replaced by more tension, more uncertainty, more drama.

This woman does not sound anywhere close to being ready for a relationship. She's messed up about her ex, messed up about her family, and has been throwing that mess at you since day one. I get it. Felt sweet and vulnerable early, even profound, but that's the kind of cheat code to vulnerability that starts to bite back quick. That she self-defines as sociopathic, incapable of empathy—well, that tells me she's pretty messed up, more into staying messed up than working through it, and interested in romantic dynamics in which she can be rewarded for being a mess. Stick around and you'll find yourself feeling a lot more like a therapist, or like a mental patient yourself, than a lover or partner. Kind of think you've already crossed into that territory.

Very thorny territory, that. Stay around too long and you can't keep pointing the finger at her red flags—which, as you've documented, are numerous—are but will have to point it at yourself, asking why you're eager to turn those red flags into warm blankets, drawn to someone who is mean, unloving, demeaning, and so on. It's clear that you're a sensitive guy with a big heart—great qualities, but in the wrong hands they can be exploited. The name you've chosen for your first post on this site leads me to think you're feeling pretty exploited.

I wonder if, perhaps, the fact that she's a year older than you, has two kids, gave the earlier impression that she was solid, stable, someone to settle down with. Heck, within just a few months you were a faux-family! And, hey, since she has all this "big stuff" going on—kids, divorce, etc.—some part of you might be more forgiving of behavior that, in a 24 year old, you'd just call cray-cray. But no. Not everyone juggling what she's juggling does it with sharp elbows.

A quick, general thought: I'm always suspicious when I hear people rationalizing unhappiness, especially after such a short time, as the end of the "honeymoon phase" and the beginning of "real life." Or some such. Ideally the honeymoon phase, if we even want to use that expression, evolves into something even richer, deeper, more rewarding. It doesn't end with a screech, you know? And when it does? That's when you need to admit that what you thought you had going isn't quite what it was.

Sucks. Happens. Been there. But best to spot it and call it with clear eyes and a strong spine than start bending around until you don't know up from down.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear this. she sounds quite unstable. You need to back up from this for your own sanity. So many red flags. Who invites men she barely knows over from work for trysts with the kids there? Think about her judgement. Maybe the sex was easy and great but is it worth the headaches of someone this damaged, broken and frankly a train wreck?

She invited me to her place after the first date, because she has no one to watch her kids .

our time was always after they were asleep I would come over. Things became sexual by the third or fourth time I saw her.

[Rose Mosse]

You are far too needy. Stop with the back and forth and don't start playing psychiatrist with the attachment styles when someone is openly hostile to you or demeaning. It should have all ended right there. You know neither of you are good with texting but you still continued that method with the fullblown hostility and disdain coming from her. My read is that she found you emotionally draining and it sapped the strength out of her having to care for her child, nurture her anger against her father and ex and your constant need for reassurance and affection. I agree she is not in the best head space for a relationship either. This is a bad mix overall.

I'm all for working things out within reason. Her hostility and disdain for you are non-negotiable. Please pick your self-respect from the gutter and move on from this woman.

[Tinydance]

I'm not sure if I should be saying this because I'm not a psychiatrist or even know this woman. But to me it sounds like *maybe* she could even have some kind of personality disorder. Many people with personality disorders at first appear very sweet and charming and like they are totally crazy about you. Things feel amazing, intense and like you're on cloud 9. Then once the person has you hooked, they just flip. And they gaslight you, which means they emotionally manipulate you by denying they've done anything wrong and convincing you that it's you that's the problem.

Back in 2010 I was dating a guy who had narcissistic personality disorder and he was exactly like this and was emotionally abusing me. In any case, personality disorder or not, this woman definitely sounds unstable and like she has treated you really bad. I think you got invested way too soon and really rushed it and yes were a bit too clingy and needy. I mean you acted with some red flags there too. After only a couple of months you were "being there for her and the kids" like some pseudo Dad when you barely even knew the woman that long! You need to be very careful with rushing in like this because this is the nature of "crash and burn" relationships.

I think you should just accept that it's over and block her on everything.

[MissCanuck]

It's time to walk away for good, OP.

You two rushed into this, which is never a good idea. It creates a false sense of intimacy and unrealistic expectations at a time when you're still getting to know each other. That's partly why it hurts so much now - you both floated the idea of "forever together" without really having a clue what you were signing up for.

She has plenty of issues on her own. No way can she be a healthy partner for you at this point, and the damage done by her words and behaviour probably cannot be undone. It's over. And I would also encourage you to examine your own relationship patterns, so you don't blindly rush into something in the future without taking the time to properly get to know a woman before deciding she is The One for you.

[Adoormat]

Hey everyone, thank you so much for taking your personal time. I honestly needed to lay it all out and have anyone who had no dog in this fight or relation to me or her give an opinion. I just wanted to say and respond to a few individual things. I cant get the full sit up and not sure how to pull specific direct quotes. So here goes. Also at the end, I want to pose some questions, if you would be so kind as to indulge me a little more


Bluecastle- thank you for coming off the cuff kind. It's been a long couple months for me as I believe myself stable, happy and capable of handling a relationship. Juggling those things without sharp elbows was a great point. Because I excused so much. I feel extremely exploited, used. And I do consider myself a big softy. The confusion for me was I have been trying to get us back to just enjoying each other not change her. She swore up and down that she would never get any help. Didnt need it. The time we still have spent in person is always awesome. It's as if she doesnt have the audacity to say things to me in person. It's like through text it's a completely different individual. Also it absolutely ended in a screech for her while I still had so much love to give. And I dont believe, whatever you want to call the first phase, ends. That's why it's been confusing

Wiseman- absolutely right you are. It has felt like I have been losing my mind because of the communication circles and immaturity. And when those are pointed out to her, the response is "k" and continues with why it's me. As far as intimacy at her place. I feel torn as shes an adult and has whatever needs, but yet yes there were children there and she trusted me early. But I am very readable. I open myself to people way too soon. I ask you, do you think with the way things progressed of her distancing herself she just wanted a lay from me?

Rose- thank you for the tough love lol. I dont believe I'm too needy. I believe that's something difficult to be defined. Just because I enjoy someone's company and want to spend time with them. Why should that make me needy? Especially when they're saying they want or wish for the same? I was probably draining to her during a certain period, however, nothing abnormal. She just was deceived about how much she wanted or could juggle. Because I specifically asked, do you want to pursue this? Do you have time and space for me in your life? It was yes. But yes she was absolutely horrific to me, but it was through text. So her way of deferring my defense of myself was, "that's just how I talk" or "you're taking it that way not my fault". Yet I'm not a fool. And things were blatantly disrespectful and hostile. I slowly lowered my bar, making excuses for her.

Tiny dance- I absolutely believe she has a personality disorder, possibly even what you speak of. She already has self admitted traits that could only be explained by that. But if I ever tried to talk about it as support or whatever. I was laughed off and had it all wrong. The last couple months have mostly been gaslighting. Which have damaged my self understanding and strength. I let myself believe her, that maybe it was me after every time I walked away. I did help her fix her car, and because of what that cost her, the kids werent going to have lunch or dinner things. I'm sorry if that makes me crazy for helping there. I rushed in because it felt right. It felt normal. We talked as adults do. I know the saying, fools rush in. And I tried to stay grounded and in communication and learning of each other. She seemed to stop caring or snapped.

MissCanuck- I guess it is time to let go. Being 31 and not a nut, I knew it was moving fast but it felt right. I dont want to fight things in life just because I havent had 10+ interviewer dates and a background check. I made sure to recognize in my mind that this was fast. But we discussed the things that needed to be discussed as well as that itself. I was almost spoonfed what I wanted to hear. It was a female reflection of me. We did float that idea because we seemed to be on the same page, adults, stable full time jobs, and kids. But I do believe I need to keep more of myself to me in the beginning and protect myself. The damage she did, I'm willing to forgive. But she has never apologized for a thing. It's always my fault some way or another. If she had not unfolded into a completely different person, she would have been the one for me. I live slightly more so in the passion world.

Again thank you everyone. I need the strength to walk away. But everytime I do, she comes back or I doubt myself or regret it because she has me thinking I've done everything. I just want to know I've exhausted all options. I actually was single 8 years before her. And was not even looking. She came for me with her friends, like I was prey.
My last questions. Was I used purely for sex in the time span she wanted? Was I being mirrored to corral me and the charade couldnt be kept up or was she honest like she claims? I know these are speculative but I thought maybe with background or experience, there could be an educated guess. Is there no way I can like an adult communicate this and get it back on track?
I failed to mention, in person when we spend time together it's still so amazing. But outside of being in her presence shes completely absent from giving a crap about me, could go weeks she says without talking. I guess until she wants something. Does she only want me at a distance? Once a week. When I miss you too much I'll text you. She also would refuse to call or see me sometimes, in her anger. Knowing I could quell it in person or on the phone. But it's as if she wanted to be angry and demeaning during that time. Anyway. I digress.

Thank you SO much all of you. Also if my thoughts seem sporadic or cut short I apologize. She has done a number on me and I'm actually quite tired. Thanks again.

[bluecastle]

I'll begin at the end, with your questions.

If you want to spin a narrative that you were used for sex, that it was a calculated charade to turn you into "prey," that she wants to keep you at a distance, and so on—well, go for it. That's a pretty easy story, and allows you to take comfort in being victimized. Personally? I don't like those stories when it comes to early dating, as I don't believe people, with few exceptions, have an agenda to "use" others. I think people give us the best version of themselves they're capable of giving at any given moment, and it's on us to decide if it's enough rather than (mis)use our brains to make them better that they are. To stay involved with someone we believe is "using" us—well, that's on us.

So I'd winnow all those questions down to something simple that allows you to be an accountable player here rather than a victim: you tried to connect, succeeded for a moment, and then realized, or are still realizing, that it didn't have the juice to be sustained. Most things don't work out. This isn't working out. This isn't working out because her issues and your issues are colliding to make a fire, not a meadow. It is a thing that happens. Dating is a chemistry experiment. You pour beaker A into beaker B and see what happens. What happened here was a moment of nice sizzle, before the glass cracked, the bubbles poured over. Stick around and you'll see what it's like to try to do a chemistry experiment in a laboratory that is burning.

As for getting it all back on track through communication? No, probably not. It jumped the tracks before it got on them. There is no "going back" because you are still just starting, and, generally speaking, you know you are in a bad place in life when you are trying to go backwards. Means you don't like the present and can't even fathom a satisfying future, so the only place you can find comfort is in the past. Not good. I spent the past two weeks on two vacations with my girlfriend, for instance. They were magical. I don't want to go back, though. I'm too excited to meet up for dinner later, you dig? If six months from now the best thing I've got with her was that vacation and tonight's dinner—well, it'll mean the plane nosedived, had crashed.

So rather than focus on how she communicates (childishly, in your eyes) vs how you do (nobly, in your eyes), I'd suggest taking a few more steps back and acknowledging that you two, together, communicate awfully, or at least in a way that makes you feel awful. Were that different? You wouldn't be posting here. You would be feeling non-awful. You'd be enjoying dating someone, and enjoying it, in part, because you communicate well. What you are trying to fix, in other words, has always been broken.

I do think Rose is onto something with the neediness. Asking someone if they have "time" for this the instant you feel a pinch of nerves—that is needy. It's operating from an assumption (that they don't) and asking them to soothe you, prove you wrong. Someone who is not needy? They don't ask that. They just sit with it, stepping forward. If they can't step forward, they stand still without freaking out for a stretch. And if they can't do that? They own that rather than asking the other person for answers, confirmation. The best matches are those where all that is pretty natural, not a psychological experiment.

I know how hard this is. It all seemed so good! It was so, so fun! You miss that, want that. Been there. But it's not good not, not fun now, and at this juncture of a relationship that is generally enough to know it's not working. Yeah, we all put in a little work—trying to talk, seeing if it's just a "bump" and not a nuclear detonation—but once it's only work you've kind of got your answer. When you look in the mirror and see an exploited doormat, when you're tried in the middle of the day, it means its time to step away from the source of those feelings not lean on the source as a solution or salve.

She isn't what you thought she was. What you have isn't what you hoped it would be. The "strength" to leave comes from the humility to accept that those two sentences are truer than anything else, and that no amount of analysis will diminish those truths.

[Rose Mosse]

You're working through your internal processes and that is A-ok (things take time) but I hope you see the irony in your alias which looks an awful lot like "a doormat".

Take the time you need to heal and try and recover, reorganize yourself. This one is over. She's no good. Right now, you are also no good by association. Treat this as an obligation to yourself to peel off this awful dependency on her (to help recover some of your sanity or make you feel better). She doesn't strike me as a feel good type of person so I think expecting anyone of that nature to feel good around you is not going to work. I think the rejection of not having someone love us back the way we want to be loved can cause us to do reckless things and feel miserable. This is human. Use this thread to vent and feel sad. It's ok. In your real life, the way you heal and meet new challenges and people, grow confidently. Come out of this brighter, lighter.

Be free. You're free!

[Apineda0783]

Take it one day at a time. Relationships are very difficult at times. Focus on yourself and your future, you're still young and this person has a lot of qork to do on themselves. If it's meant to be it will and if not you will still live and continue staying strong.