Waiting for couples therapy

[bluecastle]

Great advice from itsallgrand. Find the true support beams—family, friends—for grounding so you're not consciously or subconsciously trying to find support from a source (him) that has proven far too wobbly and unhealthy to lean on. If they're not around in 3D text someone, call someone, be vulnerable with the people who can nurture you. Get those connections established, so the netting is there. We're here too. Hoping your day has gone as well as such days can go.

Answering your personal question about healthy relationships: Yeah, I've found them. And lost them. A few times. I feel lucky, I guess, in that my early, formative romances were healthy. I could riff on all that stuff plenty, but don't want to hijack this while you're in the fire, perhaps searching for immediate footholds. If you'd like some more detail, I'm happy to provide. Short answer is that I've found them when I wasn't ready, when I still had some personal knots to untangle to be really open, really available.

For better or worse, I have a very low threshold for drama and inner turmoil, at least when it involves another person. I have an appetite for it for sure—and the weird entanglements to show for it—but not for sustaining it, building relationships through it. With the exception of one very toxic relationship that came during a very toxic juncture in my own life and self-reckoning, I've only gotten into committed relationships where there was a sense of ease—sometimes, maybe, too much ease on my end while someone else was spinning around. That those "easy choices" led to plenty of anguish kind of kicked me to work on some of my own wiring a bit.

I'm in a relationship now. It's healthy, profoundly so. Could riff plenty there too, but it's really pretty simple: I'm in it because today is better than yesterday and I'm really excited about what tomorrow will bring, with her. I don't need to break my brain to keep it stitched together. Leaves room for the heart and body to do their things, guide the ship.

I don't know about you, but what I've personally liked about this site, on the few times I've posted about my life, is that the act of posting kind of affirms for me that I've stumbled into a swamp. Ugh. But life. Then that gets confirmed and you kind of have only one direction that makes sense, regardless of what the head, heart, loins, or whatever is magnetized to.

Sometimes we need to stumble into swamps to recognize clearings. Part of the process. This is six months of your life. It doesn't have to define you or throw you down a rabbit hole of reckoning. It can just be something icky and unfortunate that you got into that shined a light on some parts of yourself that need some self-care. But for it to be that you have to lean into yourself for support, not someone who has well proven himself incapable of supporting you as you need.

[~Seraphim ~]

How did it go?

[Tinydance]

Have only skim read all the comments but read your whole original post. My thought was, why do you actually want to bother to fix this? You're trying so hard to do therapy and do all these things to make this relationship work. For what? It sounds like you are incompatible regarding your values and also just the STD situation and lying would have been enough really.

[figureitout23]

Oh for Pete’s sake...

Come on girl....

You’re better than this...

You haven’t been dating him 6 months, be honest with yourself please, you entered into this as an open relationship, the exclusivity thing happened around the same time the STD reveal happened, so your exclusivity had a dark cloud over it from the start, you’ve only been exclusive since what? June? You’re painting it as if you’ve been dating him since February and are considering counseling but based on your previous post, that I remember quite well, you’re considerinng counseling for a guy you had an open relationship with that you kinda sorta guilted into being with you... now surprise surprise you find out he’s a train wreck and triggering anxiety that was always there underneath the surface because you two started off in the red!!!!

Ok...

My advice...

Break up.

Get yourself into counseling to manage your anxiety and build yourself esteem. Do not ever again tell yourself you are ok with an open relationship, you clearly are not and I think this is all the evidence you need that any man you have to back door your way into a relationship with probably isn’t the top prize.

I’m so sorry all this is happening. It honestly has very little to do with him believe it or not, this connection you have with him... it’s in your head, the reality is much bleaker... he’s simply not the guy for you, but you were so desperate to have someone anyone fit into the idea... that’s why I suggest therapy because until you fix what broken in you this will be your dating life

You’re dating out of desperation and need.

[yatsue]

Better late than never, but here's a response update if anyone is still looking at this:

FIO, for all intents and purposes we were vocal about dating since February. Still short, but I digress. He called them from the very beginning as dates, told his family, his friends, and my own friends we've been dating since February without my prompting. I know my thoughts have been everywhere in my confusion, although I was never clear to him I was thinking about opening it. I said to him at a much later time I was open to the idea of an open relationship at first, but it quickly died after the lie. He said he never knew since I didn't say anything. I had discussed this with other men before him, but that is as far as it went; a fantasy, if you will. So he wasn't the one who first piqued my interest in that regard. He said he didn't care for monogamy or not, that he just wanted to be with me. For me, the idea was in thought only so far. However, I did consider after he asked me to be his gf that we were technically not exclusive because I usually ask for it separately when I want to. This time I did not since I was unsure if I wanted to be. Quickly that concept changed after the lie and we officially established exclusivity soon after the official label. Before he asked me to be his gf, he asked me multiple times if I wanted to be serious with him and I responded I wanted to wait until I knew him more. He said he wanted to be serious with me. Once he asked me to be his gf, he said (and in writing) he decided to be monogamous to me, didn't want anyone else, and he messed up shortly after. I excused the behavior because I didn't ask for exclusivity so soon since I was still undecided if I wanted it, whereas in previous relationships I always had specified. After the incident, I made darn sure to ask if he wanted an open relationship in general and he was adamant he only wanted me. He didn't want anyone else. I was extremely blunt, I said I wanted him to be completely honest and he replied he wanted just one person - me. If this was not the case, I wouldn't have stayed for sure. I just don't see your view I guilted him into a relationship at all, and I've tried to entertain the possibility if I thought maybe I unknowingly did. It doesn't fit the situation at all. Now if he clearly stated he was non-monogamous and wanted to be in a relationship where he can see other people as well, then yes I can see how your POV can start to apply, however this wasn't the case. Perhaps the confusion is due to all of my muddled thoughts, plus I had a hard time recalling details. I never pushed for a label or exclusivity. The latter was verbalized after he asked for a label, after that incident. He even said he was surprised I agreed to be his gf when he asked since I said I just wanted to keep dating so far at that time. I've had multiple dates and people who wanted to date/be in a relationship with me, so no I don't want to date anyone who will have me. Although, I did fall for him already and stopped dating others since I lost interest. Too bad I fell for the wrong person.

Anyway, I've had a lot going on; way too much besides this in my life. That day from my last post didn't go quite as planned. I eventually did manage to break up with him and cut ties. It's been some time now. The break became drawn out, where he had a really hard time. He tried to convince me to stay. He admitted he loves me, that I don't know how much he cares for me. He thought therapy would be good for him and his friends encouraged him to get help as they think he needs it. He would pay out of pocket for himself. BTW, I entertained going to couples therapy because it would be free for us to go, so I thought it could only help at the time. He kept holding onto me, hugging me, not letting me give him his stuff back. Also, he kept making me look at his face, since it was hard for me to break up and keep a calm face. He said he would sever ties with his female friends, if it would help fix things. He would do anything to keep me because he said I am worth it, either by serenading me with his guitar outside my window or being by my side as much as he possibly could. He wants to talk it out in order to work out the issues. It was the works.

I told him he was starting to make me depressed from all this, and he broke down sobbing. He apologized and said he was trying to keep it together. He thought he was doing well, until he heard that. He struggled with depression/suicide in the past and stated he could empathize; he didn't want anyone to feel that way, not even his worst enemy. Much less someone he really cared about. He had no choice then, than to let me go if that's the case. We ran out of time due to my job commitments and postponed until a later time.

We met up again. I said he had to go, and he knew what I meant. Again, he just started holding me, trying to convince me to stay, he's tried really hard, and that I didn't see all of the changes he's made when I wasn't around to witness it. It was too late. He asked to remain friends and didn't want a clean break, even though I did. He knew that once I break up with a boyfriend or former lover I don't communicate with them ever again. I told him he wouldn't ever be a friend to me and it would make it harder for us if we were. He quickly admitted the proposition was just to eventually get me back in a relationship with him; that he found the person for him and it felt wrong to end it. He said he'll always be here for me, to let him know if I ever change my mind, and he's glad he met me. We tried to part and I was trying to keep it together. Noticing, he chuckled I could take it back. I stayed firm. He then asked if I could call him in a month to tell him if I still didn't want to be together. I responded with "What would change?" It was met with no answer. He said he needed water, then quickly bolted to the bathroom and closed the door behind him. I heard him gagging. When he came out I, concerned, asked if he was ok. Again, no response, except stating he loves me and gave me one last hug goodbye. He rushed out really quickly with his stuff finally. I felt terrible, still do.

I always wanted to see him happy. It tore me up inside to know I invoked such a reaction. I don't feel well. I teeter from knowing I made the right decision, to just wanting to see him again. It's so hard, especially knowing he'd have me back anytime. I have to keep remembering all of the beautiful lies he told me, just so he could keep me in a relationship with him. That day plays back in my mind, haunting me. He'll never be the person I need, despite his efforts. I need to find the person I don't want to change, when I'm ready in time. I went to counseling this week and it was underwhelming. Of course it was only the first meet, but our next session isn't until October. It's too infrequent. I don't feel as bad as I did before, but I feel so sad all of the time and have to force myself to keep doing things. I know I have to keep strong. I've told my closest friends everything and they support my decision. I possibly found a new counselor, so I'm seeing where that goes. In the meantime, I'm still waiting to feel better.

[Batya33]

I'm glad you are keeping your distance from him. it's normal for it to be hard. I hope you continue to keep your distance- best of luck.

[Wiseman2]

You did the right thing. He's a liar, you state this, so don't fall for his equally insincere crocodile tears. Redirect your nurturing/fixing tendencies into your work and toward those who need/deserve it.

[bluecastle]

Been thinking about you, yatsue, wondering how you're doing.

While I'm sorry about this moment of hurt—and here, along with everyone, to listen—I can't say I'm anything but happy for you. This did not sound healthy for you, as you know, and it sounds like that knowledge is now steering your ship. Stay the course and the turbulence will fade. Hang in there.

I'm tempted to say plenty about him, but for the time being I'll just say that his behavior in breaking up is the behavior of someone who is really not ready for a relationship. I hope you can see that, as his behavior inside the relationship carried the same message. While I hope counseling helps, I think you'll find that distance from him will deliver a lot of the clarity, strength, security, and peace you've been searching for.

[yatsue]

Thanks for the kind words :) I did have some good news about my work; I'll be due for a few raises and a promotion soon. I'm looking forward to that. My good friend/new roommate and I have a lot of fun stuff planned for our place as well. While I do feel sad, deep down I am glad I won't have to deal with this worrying person anymore. If he will entertain other women behind my back, despite claiming he wants "only" me to my face, then they can have him. He's their problem now.

With everything that's happened, while unfortunate and unnecessary, I learned my limits for sure. It's not something I want to look for in my future relationships - the bad parts. The good parts - the way I felt in person with our rapport - I will take away as that I can find that one person who will be much more honorable, nice, genuine, loyal, etc. I can't believe it was so hard for me to not see all of the lies he was telling me. I took his words at face value, until I was proven time and again in his actions how he really was. Blue, I wouldn't mind at all if you would share your thoughts about him. It would serve as a reminder to who I'm dealing with.

[bluecastle]

Blue, I wouldn't mind at all if you would share your thoughts about him. It would serve as a reminder to who I'm dealing with.

I'm not one to bash people, so I'm not going to bash him. To me, from your first thread about him, it's just so clear that he is a young man who has not found his own center and who outsources that center to women in a way that makes him dangerous. Subtract your own imagination from this dynamic, and what, really, is there? An amorphous, chemistry-inducing shell.

How he handled the breakup just further confirms that, from these seats. Tears, the empathetic confessions of depression and suicidal ideation, guitar serenading and lofty promises, the grab at friendship and checking back in in a month—that's all, I'm sorry, quite juvenile. Get how it makes breaking up "hard" in the moment, but in the long run I'd hope it just makes it easier. In having you he had a reward for who he was, and in losing you he is suddenly adamant about wanting to change who he is in order to, um, have you again? Yawn. There is no "there" there, or not enough to hitch a horse onto.

Maybe he finds his way, maybe not—that's his journey, not yours. Sounds like you've gotten some good lessons from this, some that left some wounds. They will heal.