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Thread: I love her, but I don't think I can be happy with her.

  1. #41
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    Originally Posted by Rose Mosse
    What are your plans after the UK trip when you return? Are you staying in SG for a bit longer? You should travel SEA while you're down there and visit Australia and NZ. Take the opportunity.
    My contract in SG was for one year. Without an extension I will go back to the UK next March. I had planned to go back to the UK every 3 months to see Jane. Obviously if we break up, I will probably not take as much leave and just use public holidays for some travel in Asia instead.

  2. #42
    Platinum Member Rose Mosse's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MirrorKnight
    My contract in SG was for one year. Without an extension I will go back to the UK next March. I had planned to go back to the UK every 3 months to see Jane. Obviously if we break up, I will probably not take as much leave and just use public holidays for some travel in Asia instead.
    That sounds great.

  3. #43
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    3) As you alluded, if she were younger, I would feel that there would be more potential for growth and development. She would not be so set in her ways, maybe she would take up my advice to learn a new language and complete her professional qualification.

    So you want to find another project - a young woman that you can mold. Right now you have a woman who is 7 years older and you were attracted to the fact that she was inexperienced, needed saving and her world revolved around you. But if she were 25, that would be hotter because maybe she would have time to grow? I am wondering if you explored your own insecurities yourself.

  4. #44
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    Originally Posted by abitbroken
    3) As you alluded, if she were younger, I would feel that there would be more potential for growth and development. She would not be so set in her ways, maybe she would take up my advice to learn a new language and complete her professional qualification.

    So you want to find another project - a young woman that you can mold. Right now you have a woman who is 7 years older and you were attracted to the fact that she was inexperienced, needed saving and her world revolved around you. But if she were 25, that would be hotter because maybe she would have time to grow? I am wondering if you explored your own insecurities yourself.
    I think there is a tendency to over-diagnose on this forum, because the regs here must have seen years and years and thousands of cases of broken people, broken relationships, the same patterns over and over. Plus I think the reputation system and the culture that has developed here, encourages an almost investigative journalism approach to each story that we are presented with. This is not a criticism, any group of people will develop a culture, with its inherent pros and cons. A less critical community here would over-diagnose issues less, but also provide far less critical analysis and far fewer insightful answers.

    I have honestly reflected on what you (and others) have written... I accept that I have behaved at least somewhat co-dependent with regards to Jane and I accept that some personal insecurities are involved in why I allowed such a dynamic to persist as long as it did without recognizing it as inherently problematic. However...

    1) I am not going to apologize for holding conservative values and a different worldview. This forum seems to be mostly North American (US/Canada) and overwhelmingly Western. I mostly lived in the UK, but I am strongly influenced by traditional Chinese values as well. I inherently value femininity, family, responsibility etc... and reject sexual promiscuity in the guise of female empowerment. Not that I wish to impose my values on others, if some women truly do find meaningless sex "liberating" and fulfilling, then all power to them. I do not expect my partner to be a virgin either, I just want somebody who has similar views regarding sex and intimacy and hasn't had a dozen sexual partners by 30. That does not point to underlying misogyny or insecurity, I am allowed to hold different cultural and ethical values.

    So did I consider Jane's romantic inexperience to be a positive point? Kind of, no baggage from previous relationships was certainly positive, my culture values virginity too, I must admit. But it did also concern me at the time why she had no experience at 37 years old. I did not know about her anxiety and insecurities and the fact that she "needed saving" until after we were in a relationship. I did not seek out that baggage. When I first met her, she seemed happy, carefree and kind, a positive energy to be around... That is what drew me to her, in addition to her beauty and femininity.

    2) I do not have a history of pursuing broken women to fix. With the exception of my first girlfriend and Jane, every other relationship I have been in, or girls that I have pursued, have been generally popular, well adjusted, confident, intelligent, independent etc... (to different extents, of course). In fact I consistently pursue girls "better than me", in terms of intelligence, EQ, physical attractiveness, economic circumstances etc. My "success rate" is not very good, admittedly, but I have never been interested in settling for somebody who does not excite me, does not make me think, "wow! I wish she could be my girlfriend!". I don't think this is the mentality of somebody with deep-seated insecurities looking for broken women to fix.

    If Cathy is still single and available after everything is settled with Jane, I may see if I can initiate something with her. She is "out of my league" in the terms I described above, totally driven, successful and independent. I admit that I find her a little scary, but I am very attracted to her qualities at the same time. Again, I don't think that is the thought process of a seriously co-dependent person looking for another damsel to save.

    ps: @abitbroken please do not mistake this post as aimed at you or completely rejecting what you have said. I do appreciate all the responses I have received, even if I don't perhaps agree with some of them 100%. I started off answering your question in particular, but it kind of grew into a general response to previous posts regarding my co-dependency and insecurities. I repeat, I accept that I have been at least enabling Jane's dependency, and that does reflect some of my own insecurities... but how many healthy human beings are completely free of some insecurities? Isn't it natural? I think we are a bit quick to prescribe therapy on this forum sometimes.

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  6. #45
    Platinum Member Rose Mosse's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone who engages in anything meaningless is leading an empowered life.

    It's usually a good idea to neutralize gender and racial stereotypes. When we leave the stereotypes at the door, we're less likely to be misinterpreted. It's also a good idea to separate stable from unstable, better life choices from ones that are not so great. I think your thoughts surrounding both women will clarify further once you remove these layers more. I don't think Cathy is what you think she is either. People do have a way of unraveling. I'd cross one bridge at a time.

  7. #46
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    Originally Posted by Rose Mosse

    It's usually a good idea to neutralize gender and racial stereotypes. When we leave the stereotypes at the door, we're less likely to be misinterpreted.
    I respectfully disagree regarding gender differences/stereotypes. Note I say difference with no implication of superiority or superiority between the sexes, I just think that they generally have different roles to play in society and family, based on biological differences and social norms (which developed for good reason).

    I am more inclined to agree with you on race, because I recognize that there is generally more diversity within a population group than between population groups. i.e. there is going to be Chinese liberals and American liberals, Chinese conservatives and American conservatives. So in the above I was mostly talking about my values.

    I don't think Cathy is what you think she is either. People do have a way of unraveling. I'd cross one bridge at a time.
    Yes of course she is not perfect, I recognize that. She does have some baggage with heartbreak and the insecurity that likely caused.

  8. #47
    Platinum Member Rose Mosse's Avatar
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    Ah yes. But superiority is usually implied in the oppression of any sex or gender when social norms limit opportunities or stifle growth.

    In other words, it's an unfortunate reality that the upholding of many societal norms (those pertaining to femininity, family and responsibility as it affects women to be more specific, using your terms above) usually do suppress and oppress women. The idea that women stay home and raise the kids, take care of the home and are not educated, don't receive equal pay or opportunities for the same positions at work as men and so on. That imbalance created or the expectations of either gender that arise from it does a disservice to humanity as a whole as it can limit (it does not always limit or oppress but it can if women do not feel like they have a choice).

    The notion of virginity or the commodity of virginity as a product is age old. Let's not joke about how this has been bought and sold in history. I'm speaking with you, by the way, like a friend so don't feel put out by my comments or thoughts. This is back and forth banter only, chit chatting. Underground sex slave industries and the network of prostitution in Southeast Asia, India and the rest of the developing world is a terrible smear on society where underaged girls are bought and sold and their prices are directly related to their virginity treated as commodities or products. When we bring in social norms and add ideas such as sexual promiscuity in the context of the West I don't think it should be confused with sexual autonomy as a whole and empowerment of a gender across the globe. Empowerment comes from breaking out of social norms that imprison or limit, oppress or endanger. I think it's a powerful and very valuable word considering the existing atrocities that are ongoing.

    I think we can evolve from that and empower women and men (anyone, for that matter) in better ways. I agree with you on acknowledging those differences but I think we can also share the responsibilities and create opportunities for people where there don't exist currently. There's room for more growth and more good in this world.

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