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Which one of us is the problem?


Kira L

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I've been with my boyfriend, Ryan, for three years and a few months. We bought an engagement ring a year ago, but it's just stuck in a box somewhere because I'm avoiding the commitment until I get this sorted out (and he's just procrastinating). We got together when I was 20, and I had never had a long term relationship before that - that's what made me come here. I have no idea what is normal or expected. I'm hoping those of you who have had longer relationships/marriages might be able to tell me if we're in a bad spot.

 

I have never felt more stuck or confused. I can't figure out for the life of me if I'm the problem, or if he is missing something normal guys have. My family insists that Ryan is perfect, and he really is a prince charming. He loves me so completely, and he's constantly doing things for me, like cooking, fixing my broken devices, etc. He's incredibly loving in a non-enthusiastic way. Absolutely wonderful to me and so smart, responsible, and kind, but he, or we, seem to be missing a spark. His family all act like robots, and he definitely got that from them - he barely ever touches me without me asking for it. It's hard not to cry when I see something as simple as a man putting his hand on his partner's lower back. I would do anything for Ryan to "treat me like his girlfriend", I feel like I'm just a roommate he really cares about. I'm at the opposite end - affection and touching/being touched is EVERYTHING to me. Every day, I completely shower him with "tickle baths" as we call them, massages, kisses, and compliments. I don't do those things because I should, I do them because I want to. Yet it seems like he doesn't have those instincts at all. He didn't initiate sex for months until I directly asked him to, and that still has barely made a difference. He also never compliments me in any way, almost never says thank you when I do something for him, and barely ever says he loves me. After all this time I've started to feel unattractive/unwanted, which I know isn't the case. That's the problem - I know he loves me and thinks I'm attractive, but he didn't grow up in an environment where you show affection. This wouldn't be a big deal if I didn't need so much love, but I'm the opposite of him. I show all my emotions all the time and love being touched more than any other form of affection. At the heart of it, we go together as people PERFECTLY, and I really love him, but the way we handle a romantic relationship clashes like all hell.

 

About a couple months ago I told Ryan about all of this, how awful I was feeling, that I thought maybe we might end up breaking up. He said he completely understood and that he was being lazy with his affection, that he would make a greater effort in the relationship (and in the bedroom). He initiated sex twice in that whole period of time. He also started poking and nudging me with his fingers, like he was trying to touch me as I had asked him to. He's been a bit better since the big talk, telling me he loves me more often, saying I look cute once in a while, smiling at me when he walks in the door sometimes. That's how "robotic" he is - he doesn't naturally smile when he sees me after work - I can tell it's weird for him now that he does it. Basically, it's clear that he's a certain way and I'm a certain way, and that won't change.

 

And it's not just affection - I always want to do crazy, wild things. I'm fun and spontaneous, I like to run around the room making funny faces and being silly, and I love going up to strangers and making fast friends with them. I would probably go skinny dipping in the wilderness or something like that with anyone who asked, whereas Ryan (for example) won't go swimming in the apartment complex's heated pool unless it's 100 degrees outside. Too chilly. He's not a risk taker and never looks actively for excitement, he's just a pretty serious, extreeeeemely intellectual person who sticks well to a routine. Since the first day I met him, I've always thought there was a fire in him that was missing. And despite the million billion times I've convinced myself I'm asking too much from him, I always get that nagging feeling coming back, forcing on thoughts/fantasies about being with a more exciting person. I want to LIVE as much as possible, just immerse myself in new experiences, but he doesn't immerse himself in anything. I'm an artist, and he's an intellectual.

 

I have been researching and thinking about all this to no end - I know full well that any person you're with will drive you up the wall for one reason or another. Everyone has flaws. This could totally apply, because Ryan is seriously great. He's just like a sleepy or kind of robot-y version of the most perfect guy in the world. Incredibly respectful, sweet, and makes all the right choices. The problem could also be that I don't have friends - I work so often, I could squeeze in hangouts, but I've honestly been too lazy to try to find friends. I'm also kind of obsessive, I could just be focusing way too hard on a negative quality. I've looked at this from a thousand different perspectives, but at the end of the day, I just feel empty and don't know what to do. And I can't stop dreaming about that guy out there who's not as smart or responsible, but who would fit the lifestyle I prefer. Every day filled with excitement, kisses, cuddles, sex, adventures, risks, fun!! It could be me causing the problems, stressing about pointless things and getting too wound up, or it could be him. After all, I've had this issue with him since day 1. It's probably both of us. I need too much, and he doesn't give quite enough. No matter what, there's probably a 95% chance I won't leave him. I just can't, I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to leave my entire life like that and just start over, I can barely take care of myself without him. Plus everyone is telling me to stay. I'm looking for a therapist to see if I can fix any problems with myself then re-assess, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to get rid of this nagging feeling. I'm missing the basic things, like, I have to make myself feel excited about the idea of marrying him someday. I'm not usually extremely excited to be with him, or proud of my choice in a permanent partner. As in, I never look at him and think "That's MY guy!!", which I know is supposed to happen. It's like we've never had a spark, as if we've been an aging, tired couple for our whole relationship. But there are so many good things and fun times we have together, and I truly don't think there are many, if any, guys that are better than him out there. Our relationship looks totally perfect to anyone who knows us, because it pretty much is aside from my own feelings.

 

Someone please help, I'll take any and all opinions, if you can possibly get to the end of this gigantic freaking post haha. I have no idea what to think, or how much affection/enthusiasm/craziness is too much to ask for. People have flaws, but I just can't seem to get over this and don't know how to.

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Hi

 

I think after three years you’ve now taken a better look. You removed the rose tinted glasses so to speak.

 

You’re probably feeling more you two are friends then lovers.

 

I would suggest breaking up with him so you two find the ones perfect for each other. Somewhere out there is a match for him.

 

Of course you’re scared to leave. He’s all you have known. But taking a risk and being alone and facing the world on your own is its own adventure!

 

That guy you crave is out there please don’t settle.

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That's a lot of words for something very simple. He is perfect on paper and not a good match for you. IMO to marry someone other than a marriage of convenience you need to be reasonably sure and excited to be marrying the person and to me anyway excitement requires a spark. Or at the very least at those times you're not feeling it you can reinvigorate the spark or know you can later (meaning you might not feel the spark if you're really upset with him or really exhausted, etc).

 

If you have the dream of someone else then he is not the right person. Sure we might all notice an attractive guy, crush on a radio personality, feel a mild thrill if someone flirts with us or gives us a compliment but it's completely overshadowed by the love/commitment you feel for your person -it's a momentary fleeting thing.

 

There's no thousand different perspectives and while some people "just know" it's also ok if you don't just know. That's why I'm a fan of "reasonably sure and excited to marry that person". You can overanalyze to death -can you tell that I did when I was just about your age??? - but it really is quite basic/simple.

 

It's also not about shoulds or comparing yourself to how your girlfriends or hairdresser or mother feels -it's about you. But that is also why if you tend to overthink I like the simple "reasonably sure and excited to be with the person."

 

I spent many years overthinking this. And wasted time overthinking it. And when I became the right person to find the right person I knew that while there might technically be someone better out there -technically because well sure I didn't date everyone who existed - that technicality was irrelevant. I made my choice, was happy and excited by my choice and this with all the past overthinking, obsessing, doubting, panicking. I even married someone who I didn't feel right about marrying but then did 8 years later. On my wedding day I had this combination of feeling completely natural and completely magical about taking my vows. Never felt that way before -that seemingly inconsistent combination but it made perfect sense, felt completely right that day. And the magic had nothing to do with the setting -we had 10 guests at my inlaws' home -as simple a wedding as can be and the magic was from within and without, surrounding us.

I wish the same for you -that peaceful easy feeling that is not settling because it includes that spark, includes that security of knowing that when you're not quite feeling it it's fleeting, temporary, it will return because nothing can shake the foundation, the core of who you are together.

 

It's not about being brave enough to walk -it's the ethical thing to do. It's unfair to him -he deserves a spouse who is excited to be with him. Of course there are guys out there who are better for you -obviously. It's not about perfect on paper.

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You and Ryan are incompatible.

 

He isn't going to change and you can't expect him too. You told him about the initiating, he has done what he can. But as for the long list of other things, being spontaneous, being silly etc...it's not him, it's never going to be him. You are going to have to accept this.

 

He is NEVER going to be that person.

 

That does not make him bad, or boring or 'robotic'...that means a girl like you, cannot fully appreciate a man like him. But out there somewhere, someone will appreciate exactly who he is and what he's like...it's just not you.

 

You have gone on about there not being a 'spark' and you need to own up to that and move on. You can't stay with him just due to the fact that you're scared to be alone or that you're not responsible enough. He's not your parent and you can't keep clinging onto him like this.

 

You are essentially using him out or fear but you don't actually love him. There's parts of him that you appreciate, but its not love.

 

If you want to be fair at all, you will let him go. Stop using him, stop putting him down, stop expecting him to be someone he isn't.

Tell him it's not working, and let him go.

 

Then you can find the man you've described above and Ryan will stop feeling like he's not enough and you will stop expecting him to be someone he's not.

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But taking a risk and being alone and facing the world on your own is its own adventure!

 

True, if you're such a risk taker, then this should be easy to leave and go find the man of your dreams.

 

You should also develop some friendships. It's not healthy to make your life about your bf.

 

Also true, you don't have friends. That's your fault, not his. You are placing all this pressure on his head and expecting him to be everything. That's not fair. You need to start making friends and not have all your happiness dependant on Ryan.

 

But you two still won't be and aren't compatible.

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I agree with whoever said you are actually not a risk taker despite your claim to be.

 

“ No matter what, there's probably a 95% chance I won't leave him. I just can't, I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to leave my entire life like that and just start over, I can barely take care of myself without him. ”

 

Risk takers are not brave. They are reckless yet know the risk and accept the potential consequences.

 

You are ONLY 23 years old. What do you mean by leaving your entire life and having to a start over?

He is NOT your entire life , in fact you have only known him 3 years out of 23?

 

You say there is a 95% chance you won’t leave him , I say there is a 95% chance you will! If not now, then later , hopefully before you marry and have kids.

 

He is a nice guy, you are a nice girl.

But you don’t make for a nice couple. (Outwardly to others yes perhaps)

 

Google the five love languages. Perhaps you will understand why he will never give you the affection you require.

 

End it now because you will eventually.

It’s the kindest thing you could do for him.

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Thanks for all the input you guys :) Sorry I wrote more than necessary, haha that comes from me being too obsessive. I should say, the reason it's confusing is because I'm really happy with him a lot of the time. Pretty often, I feel like I made the right choice. I just also tend to get in these negative thought spirals when he's having a "sleepier"day. It's not as simple as me not feeling it, I just think I don't feel it as much as I should haha. And I really focus hard on the negative stuff because I'm a worrier and want to make sure I'm not wasting his or my time. It's a very real possibility that all my stress and negativity is my fault, I still feel like there's a huge chance this could end up working. He's not extremely absent, nor am I extremely unhappy, it's just sometimes. Do you guys all think you're supposed to REALLY feel a spark, almost all the time? Is it not enough to just feel happy pretty often? I didn't think it was that clear cut that we couldn't work it out.

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To Batya33: Thank you for all that detail, that was really helpful :) That's what's tough, haha I can't physically date all the people in the world, so I feel like finding someone better than this almost-perfect guy seems nearly statistically impossible. I posted a little updated reply to this thread, in case you have time to check it out, I just feel like we might be too happy to break up, haha. It's not as black & white as I made it sound.

 

To boltnrun: I most can't take care of myself financially. I'm an artist, whereas he makes the real money. Plus I don't know how to do the fancy adult stuff like taxes, and I can't cook. I know I can learn how to do all that, so that's not my most major concern, it just adds to the fear of breaking up.

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Thanks for all the input you guys :) Sorry I wrote more than necessary, haha that comes from me being too obsessive. I should say, the reason it's confusing is because I'm really happy with him a lot of the time. Pretty often, I feel like I made the right choice. I just also tend to get in these negative thought spirals when he's having a "sleepier"day. It's not as simple as me not feeling it, I just think I don't feel it as much as I should haha. And I really focus hard on the negative stuff because I'm a worrier and want to make sure I'm not wasting his or my time. It's a very real possibility that all my stress and negativity is my fault, I still feel like there's a huge chance this could end up working. He's not extremely absent, nor am I extremely unhappy, it's just sometimes. Do you guys all think you're supposed to REALLY feel a spark, almost all the time? Is it not enough to just feel happy pretty often? I didn't think it was that clear cut that we couldn't work it out.

 

You are excusing things away, because we all told you, you were incompatible. I suggest that you be honest with yourself and reread your post numerous times. You are not happy with this guy, and YES, there should be a spark. You currently have a buddy situation. You will not be happy in the marriage, and you know it.

 

Perhaps, if you were't so dependent on him, you would have ended things long ago. Time to become more independent of men and make some friends to enrich your life.

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"I most can't take care of myself financially. I'm an artist, whereas he makes the real money. Plus I don't know how to do the fancy adult stuff like taxes, and I can't cook. I know I can learn how to do all that, so that's not my most major concern, it just adds to the fear of breaking up."

 

Good grief! These are all the wrong reasons to stay in a relationship. He is not your father., and it sounds like you are using him like a parent. Unhealthy dynamic! You need to learn to take care of yourself. Move back with your folks until you can become more grounded. You need to grow up. I would feel used if I were your bf.

 

Break up with this guy. And, find something that you can support yourself on, so that you do not have to relay on other people. What would you do if he lost his job?

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Taxes are "fancy adult stuff"??

 

I wonder what he would think if you read that paragraph to him. You're staying with him because he does all the "fancy adult stuff" you have chosen to avoid and because he's basically a nice guy and he pays for everything.

 

I do hope you don't marry him.

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Taxes are "fancy adult stuff"??

 

I wonder what he would think if you read that paragraph to him. You're staying with him because he does all the "fancy adult stuff" you have chosen to avoid and because he's basically a nice guy and he pays for everything.

 

I do hope you don't marry him.

 

I could not believe that she had written that. Incredible. This is a part of life, not "fancy" things.

 

Seek an accountant and buy a cookbook.

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To Batya33: Thank you for all that detail, that was really helpful :) That's what's tough, haha I can't physically date all the people in the world, so I feel like finding someone better than this almost-perfect guy seems nearly statistically impossible. I posted a little updated reply to this thread, in case you have time to check it out, I just feel like we might be too happy to break up, haha. It's not as black & white as I made it sound.

 

To boltnrun: I most can't take care of myself financially. I'm an artist, whereas he makes the real money. Plus I don't know how to do the fancy adult stuff like taxes, and I can't cook. I know I can learn how to do all that, so that's not my most major concern, it just adds to the fear of breaking up.

 

No, you misunderstand. It's not about that at all. He is not perfect for you or almost perfect for you. It's irrelevant whether a man is perfect on paper. It's about compatibility, a good match. My husband is not perfect or almost perfect. Neither am I - in fact humility (not low self esteem -humility) is a great quality to have in a relationship because it allows you to learn even more from the other person and more about yourself.

 

I have no real idea how to do taxes so I outsource it to an accountant and since we got married my husband takes care of it -just a simple division of responsibilities (I make all those annoying health insurance calls) - if my husband needed me to do it there is no way I would try to do our taxes myself - I am not an accountant -but i would be good at finding the right accountant and getting that person all the paperwork and on time. I can cook and I don't cook much at all. And if for some reason I needed to, I would and could or, again, I would see if it made more sense to do a meal service or some hybrid -meaning even if I don't have the exact skill I am a person who is responsible enough to find the right person to assist and handle the consequences of outsourcing (like our biweekly cleaning service).

 

If you don't make real money it's time to find a way to make real money even if you marry a very wealthy person. Even very wealthy people can get sick/lose their jobs/make bad financial decisions, need to spend money to care for aging parents, etc. You need to make sure that if push comes to shove you can financially provide either by getting a job and/or having a nest egg that will provide until you can. Being an artist is wonderful -I worked with so many and I am a huge patron of the arts and always will be AND the artists I know have day jobs if their art isn't paying the bills if their are bill to be paid.

 

I think you are supposed to feel a spark in a romantic relationship and if you don't feel it at that moment you feel secure that if needed you can revive that spark. You feel that the core of who you two are together is founded on friendship caught on fire - that you two are partners, and that you click romantically - and no you don't have to feel it every moment. But when you don't it doesn't concern you because you know that it's there even if it's a bit buried at the moment for one reason or another. You are concerned because you are doubting that you two ever had a spark, you are doubting that you feel it "enough".

 

Also being the right person means being a person who doesn't need the excitement of the thrill of the chase. My partner keeps me on my toes but not in a sense of hot and cold or making me chase him -the sense of not being a doormat or a yes man, challenging me and standing up for himself - I see it as the dance of intimacy. When we were first engaged in the late 90s he was too much of a doormat. There were reasons for that. His own reasons and our dynamic back then. 8 years later, different story.

 

It's not "ha ha" about feeling it as much as I should - because there's no ha ha about committing to a person for life. I hate to be overly simplistic but I'll put it to you this way. If you're actually content to have an engagement ring sitting in a box for all of that time and you're not wanting it on your finger as a symbol of your commitment and excitement about your future commitment you kinda sorta have your answer.

 

I'll share this final anecdote. Last week our cousins sent us a photo in the mail they'd recently found. It was from 22 years ago. It was me and my husband. We were newly engaged and it was a ridiculously adorable couple photo taken near some lovely ocean while we were on vacation. You know I remember that trip, I remember feeling happy about being engaged. I remember actually when the doubts set in big time right after that, right when we started planning our November wedding. (meaning 3-4 months in the future). I looked at that photo last week and my first thought was "dang (well the other dang) why the heck did i not marry him back then???? what the heck was I thinking -we're so cute and happy together!!" And I made myself stop and respect my past self -respect that my body and head and heart told me loud and clear -once I listened to it and stopped getting swept up in wedding planning -that we were not right together.

 

And here's another thing. We took a break right before the wedding date. Postponed the wedding. Took a month apart. When we met up again I missed him and wanted another chance despite still feeling shaky. And he said "no. because it will be romantic for awhile and then we'll be back where we started". 8 years later I realized (1) he was right and (2) had I somehow convinced him to give us another chance we'd never ever have gotten back together- there would have been too much negativity, bad blood. it was hard enough forging ahead knowing we'd been engaged and on the brink of marrying.

 

So maybe -maybe- in a couple of years when you are a world class chef/accountant/making a living while you hone your art skills and he grows a backbone you two will reconnect. It's rare but it happens. Or you'll find someone who is the right person because you'll be the right person, a responsible, mature adult ready for the excitement of someone with reasonable confidence loving you and you love him back. Not because he's perfect. Because he's perfect for you. Be brave and take the risk of the dream of someone else -don't settle.

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I'll echo most everyone else: you two are not a match.

 

You are good friends. But you will not be good life partners. If you marry him, you will most likely wind up divorcing him later on.

 

You will need to be the risk-taker you fancy yourself to be, and venture into adult life on your own. The degree to which you lean on him support you financially and be the "grown-up" is unhealthy; sooner or later, life has a way of making you grow up. Your time for that has come, it seems.

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"It's not "ha ha" about feeling it as much as I should - because there's no ha ha about committing to a person for life. I hate to be overly simplistic but I'll put it to you this way. If you're actually content to have an engagement ring sitting in a box for all of that time and you're not wanting it on your finger as a symbol of your commitment and excitement about your future commitment you kinda sorta have your answer."

YES!!!

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Taxes for the business I own, not normal taxes. He basically manages my business. My dependency on him isn't a giant concern though, I know I could learn how to do whatever is necessary. I was more complaining than giving that as a real reason not to leave - I am NOT staying with him because of that at all. I'm not using him, I'm staying because I care DEEPLY for him - all that other stuff is just me being scared. For the most part, I truly do want to stay because he's so wonderful in so many ways. I've even told him I would trade everything he does for me to have more affection and energy in the relationship, which is true.

 

And I'm not trying to make excuses - I'm trying to explain that I get in these obsessive moods, where I get super upset and dramatic. I was in a crying fit and posted that, with more negativity than I think is necessary. I wanted you guys to know the relationship isn't as bad as I made it sound. You're all assuming my opinions are hard and fast, haha, but I really think a lot of the problem is me focusing way too much on the unhappy times, when there are so many happy ones. I have bad days and good days, and yesterday was a bad one. I don't feel as magical in the relationship as I thought I would, that's the problem when it comes down to it. It's like I feel 80% happy with him, but I wish it was higher. The problems aren't giant now, but my fear of losing him makes the problems seem much bigger, since they could get bigger over the following years. But maybe they just aren't too big? Please just understand my default is to work on me and us before I do anything crazy, haha that's why I'm working on getting a therapist.

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"It's not "ha ha" about feeling it as much as I should - because there's no ha ha about committing to a person for life. I hate to be overly simplistic but I'll put it to you this way. If you're actually content to have an engagement ring sitting in a box for all of that time and you're not wanting it on your finger as a symbol of your commitment and excitement about your future commitment you kinda sorta have your answer."

YES!!!

 

I want to clarify -I really disliked -and still do the chorus of "you just know" when someone is "the one". Because some people do, good for them, some people don't "just know" but with their head and heart involved and sometimes some soul searching - they come to that decision and when they do it's just as strong and solid and true as the "just know" crowd. I can spin my story -part two of it as "just know" because I swear I just knew when we got back together and had our first real kiss after 8 years - I mean talk about a ha moment. I didn't tell him what I was feeling because you know didn't want to scare him lol - but yes I did. Is that what carried me through to knowing he was the one. Actually, no. It helped, it triggered the trajectory towards marriage but no it wasn't totally smooth sailing. Because I'm not a smooth sailing chick. And you know being forced to not soar on the wings of love passively and go with "I just know he is the one" forced me, personally, to do some dissection to make sure we were right this time, that I was the right person to find the right person in general and that we were right together. For me personally owning my decision in that way strengthened my commitment.

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We are going from your words: he does not meet you emotional and physical needs. You are twisting things. You said the issues started from day one.

 

I think that this is mostly tied up in your dependence and lack of social life. You have made your life about him.

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It's not "ha ha" about feeling it as much as I should - because there's no ha ha about committing to a person for life. I hate to be overly simplistic but I'll put it to you this way. If you're actually content to have an engagement ring sitting in a box for all of that time and you're not wanting it on your finger as a symbol of your commitment and excitement about your future commitment you kinda sorta have your answer.

 

You're definitely right about that - that was my true question. Whether me never really having felt the spark and not feeling super excited about a huge commitment was a bad sign. Everything you say is so sound and is spoken with so much experience, I really appreciate your input. At the end of the day, it probably shouldn't feel like labor for me to get excited about our future together. I'll think more seriously about the possibility of leaving. It's just so weird, I feel like us breaking up seems like some kind of dream, like it's physically impossible in the real world.

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Sorry this is happening. basically it sounds like you're incompatible. Why is he dating/living with you if he has no interest in sex with you? What were things like before you moved in together? It doesn't matter what your or his family thinks, only how comfortable you feel with him and this relationship.

 

Stop smothering and crowding him with the 'tickle baths' etc. people need personal space and none of that is erotic or affectionate, nor is running 'around the room making crazy faces'. It's not kindergarten.

 

Get out of the rut of domestic drudgery and plan exciting interesting things. Get more involved outside of the relationship/home with friends, family, career, courses, classes, (computer courses, financial management, whatever) interests and hobbies. Volunteer, join some groups and clubs. Get in shape and update your clothes, hair, look etc. be out of the house much more on your own. Learn to do more things on t your own and independently

 

Whether you stay together or part ways becoming your own person and toning down the high-school behavior will help any relationship you're in. Learn to be a responsible, mature yet loving partner. Being playful and acting like a kindergartner are two different things.

-Every day, I completely shower him with "tickle baths" as we call them, massages, kisses, and compliments.

-He didn't initiate sex for months until I directly asked him to

-After all this time I've started to feel unattractive/unwanted

- I always want to do crazy, wild things. I'm fun and spontaneous, I like to run around the room making funny faces and being silly

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You're definitely right about that - that was my true question. Whether me never really having felt the spark and not feeling super excited about a huge commitment was a bad sign. Everything you say is so sound and is spoken with so much experience, I really appreciate your input. At the end of the day, it probably shouldn't feel like labor for me to get excited about our future together. I'll think more seriously about the possibility of leaving. It's just so weird, I feel like us breaking up seems like some kind of dream, like it's physically impossible in the real world.

 

Kira, What would you do if he broke up with you? I think that you would move on and survive. You need address your dependence with a counselor, as it is really unhealthy. Did your parents do everything for you? It seems that you have gone from one caretaker to another. Don't you want to be self sufficient?

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