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How much space do I give my boyfriend after an argument concerning marriage?


felurian

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Hi everyone. Im sorry if I come across as a mess right now, I feel like a part of my soul is slowly dying.

 

Last Friday, my boyfriend of 3 years and I had a huge argument. While nothing nasty was said nor done to one another, we did end up drunkenly fighting over our values concerning marriage. Long story short, we are (were) planning on moving in with one another, but I wanted to know before then if he ever saw himself marrying me. He said he would not know unless we lived with each other despite us having a pretty solid relationship all this time. Like I said, we werent exactly sober, so that answer instantly put me in my feelings and caused a bit of fear to well up inside of me. I've never lived with a man before (Im 24 and he is 30 btw), and I have always wanted to know that a relationship with my partner was at least building towards marriage before doing so. (I am Christian and these are simply my values, I know that they may not make the most sense in the present day, but they are something I have prayed heavily about and feel confident in).

 

Since that argument, my bf said he has felt taken advantage of and that I do not value the love and compromises he has made in our relationship (For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise). I apologized for making him feel that way, and told him that I do appreciate everything he has done for me, and that being with him is the happiest I have ever been in a relationship. Before this fight, our communication has been pretty good. We laughed so much together and in general our relationship felt light and fun. Are huge arguments tend to surround the topic of marriage, but otherwise, I love speaning time with him. Despite my desire for marriage, I was still willing to communicate in hopes to find a compromise.

 

However, since that day in which I apologized (Saturday), he has been cold and distant. He called me on Sunday but he still seemed upset, I then didn't hear from him at all yesterday so I called him late afternoon. I asked if he had wanted space and he said no, just that he was trying to focus on positive things (work, excercise etc.) for now. While he told me that he still loves me, my intuition (or maybe horrible anxiety) feels that something is still amiss. (for example, there have been no usual goodnight/good morning texts, no checking in on each other, and in general the communication of our feelings and intent is gone). He even said that he packed up some of my books so that they would be ready for the move, but I still feel his emotional distance from me and I am worried that he will no longer contact me unless I contact him first.

 

So I have resolved to give him space today (I will not contact him at all until he is ready to talk). Im scared that this is the end, but I know I can't keep badgering him to assuage my fears and anxieties. So I want to be proactive. If this is the end, I want to prepare myself as best as I can. This will 100% be the hardest break up I will have ever had to go through. I don't want this relationship to end, but I can't force anyone to stay with me either.

 

Should I continue to give him space, or is my BF playing the slow fade in hopes that I break up with him? I just don't know what to do anymore. Without communication from him I feel as if I'm in limbo. Although the conversation we had on Friday was hard, I still want to work through our differences. I love him that much. But maybe he is realizing though that our values are truly too different, and now no longer wants to be a part of this relationship.

 

Does anyone have any advice on this sort of disconnect within a relationship? Is the emotional distance justified and should I continue to give it to him? I am reluctant to say that he is stonewalling/ignoring me, as he does answer my calls, but he hasnt not initiated them himself and I am scared that he no longer wants to communicate with me freely.

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How does he generally feel about marriage?

 

We have had blow ups about this before. He doesn't see the benefit to marriage in general, but has been warming up to the idea. For instance, he will ponder about what sort of song our first dance will be too, or what type of alcohol we'd serve our guest. (his sister is getting married in August so maybe thats why he has been asking these questions). However, whenever I ask if he sees himself marrying ME, he says he does not know. Either because we havent been together long enough (This was the first time I asked him 1.5 years into the relationship), we havent lived with each other yet (This most recent time I've asked), or because he doesnt think we share the same values. (I value building a partnership that builds towards a marriage, while he values dating and being in a relationship in the moment and focusing on new experiences with his partner).

 

I have never got a clear answer from him regarding his feelings to be honest. Maybe he just doesnt want to marry ME. But then, why stay in the relationship and ask to move in.

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You are certainly not ready to discuss marriage together, let alone moving in together, if you are panicked that he's "slow fading you" in the hopes you'll break up with him over this argument.

 

While none of us knows the exact words said in this fight, you've outlined it as a fight because you want to know where this relationship is heading after three years. He has answered for you - he's not ready to discuss marriage or what he sees in the future, to the extent that he's even accused you of taking advantage of him. That is a pretty huge way of saying that he does not see this as heading to marriage.

 

I also have to warn you that this relationship is clearly all about what he wants, with little concern for what you want. Are you willing to move in with him and then have to back down from anything "more" you might want because he did you this ENORMOUS FAVOR moving in with you to begin with? Since you explain that he didn't want to move in with you, and he seems to be incapable at his much older age of 30 of discussing important adult things like how compatible you are longterm without somehow spinning that as you "taking advantage of him," I would say that this is only going to get much, MUCH worse once you move in together.

 

You are clearly in a position of weakness here, terrified of losing him rather than focusing on what you want. You only wanted to move in if you felt that it was heading towards marriage, no? Why are you even moving in with him if he cant answer that question for you?

 

While it's totally fine for many couples to be together for years without getting married, and to move in together without that as the end result, it's not fine when one person in the relationship wants a solid future commitment in the form of marriage and the other doesn't. That is simply a recipe for disaster and heartbreak. I have to say, from what you state in your post, it doesn't sound like you are taking advantage at all - it sounds like HE knows that you want him bad enough that he can sulk and pull away and you will rescind your request for more commitment from him and give up what you want for what he wants. And I hate to say it but, judging from your post, that's exactly what you are doing.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would - yes - give him space, but also address his reaction saying, "While I love you and want a future for us, your reactions indicate that you are not ready to commit further, and I don't feel comfortable moving in with you until we are more on the same page. I'm sorry for my negative reactions in our argument, but I hope you can understand and respect that I'm not willing to change my personal values around this important step for anyone, and while I hope you can be the one to take this next step with me I completely understand if you are not."

 

Frankly, if he views taking a next step in commitment with you as some kind of favour he is reluctantly granting you, rather than an exciting step forward in his relationship with an awesome girl he loves, then he is just not that into you.

 

I waited until I met my current husband to move in with someone. I was 32 when we moved in together. I was in a relationship with a guy whom your boyfriend sounds very similar to for about 4 years before figuring out that he was never going to want to commit. We used to have fights like the ones you are describing - it was always me "screwing up" and bringing up marriage only to be ghosted for days after those arguments and frantically apologising and saying I didn't actually need marriage, just kidding, I just wanted to be with him even if he wasn't ready and blah blah blah. Long story short: because I had so little respect for myself and what I truly wanted, so did he. We had a horrible, miserable break up. When I met my husband, he was the one eager to move in together - I never even had to have the uncomfortable conversation where I asked him where we were heading. It was clear from the start that we were on the same page about what we wanted.

 

Find yourself something like that. Stop worrying about your boyfriend dumping you. Ask for what you want and have the courage to stand by that.

 

And in the future - do whatever you can to avoid "drunken fights." Nothing wrong with having a drink from time to time (as long as you are doing so in a healthy way and not as a way to self-medicate during a stressful time, etc. etc.), but there's nothing worse than knowing you should have waited to have a conversation that was scary to have when you were sober, and it probably would have gone a heck of a lot better.

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my bf said he has felt taken advantage of and that I do not value the love and compromises he has made in our relationship (For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise)

 

Why is he reluctant to move in with you? After 3 years together, you would likely know all the important things about each other, and at your ages, it'd be a natural progression to move in together or to get married. Have you spent extended periods of time at each others places, like spending the night for 2 or 3 days? If so, how did that go? Did you ask what his worries were, of what he might find out about living together that he doesn't already know now? Why were you two drunk? Is that something you do together regularly?

 

If a guy told me it was a "huge compromise" to move in with me after 3 years together, I'd back out on the offer since instead of it being a happy occasion and the hope of building a beautiful life together, he was doing it begrudgingly and why would I want to live with someone with that sour attitude?

 

What do your friends think of him? Is your love for him clouding your judgement?

 

This watershed moment might have made him face his true feelings. Perhaps he feels like you're not "the one," or perhaps nobody is the one because he's not ready for that type of seriousness yet.

 

Don't let other people make your decisions for you, even a partner. You're driving the bus of your life, so if how he's behaving isn't how you'd expect a lifetime partner to act, perhaps use your brain instead of solely your heart to decide if you want to continue on with him or not.

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We have had blow ups about this before. He doesn't see the benefit to marriage in general, but has been warming up to the idea. For instance, he will ponder about what sort of song our first dance will be too, or what type of alcohol we'd serve our guest. (his sister is getting married in August so maybe thats why he has been asking these questions). However, whenever I ask if he sees himself marrying ME, he says he does not know. Either because we havent been together long enough (This was the first time I asked him 1.5 years into the relationship), we havent lived with each other yet (This most recent time I've asked), or because he doesnt think we share the same values. (I value building a partnership that builds towards a marriage, while he values dating and being in a relationship in the moment and focusing on new experiences with his partner).

 

 

Ooooof. Girlfriend, he is definitely not the guy for you, I'm sorry.

 

I normally don't make blanket statements like that on this forum because there are two sides to every story, but this just all sounds like bad news for you and I wouldn't be surprised if after you moved in together things deteriorated pretty rapidly with you feeling sad that you still don't know if he's ever going to fully "warm up to the idea," and him feeling trapped with someone he doesn't see that future with (if he sees it ever). Please save yourself the heartache and hold off on any further steps like moving in together until you have a really good reason to think you're on the same page.

 

"Why stay in the relationship and move in" if he isn't into marrying you? You probably know this. Because it's way easier to stay in a relationship than it is to break it off after 3 years. Since he's not the one worried about "where this is heading," (since he isn't really all that concerned about getting married one day to begin with), why break off an otherwise decent relationship? He gets the physical stuff and the ego boost from someone who adores him while he doesn't really have to do much else.

 

I'm sure he's not a horrible guy, but he knows you want to get married one day and he's certainly not giving you any reason to think it's going to be him. He knows where you stand on that re: moving in, yet he's still going ahead with it and totally leading you on. I'm not sure he even really loves you based on this info alone - I sure as hell wouldn't want to move in with a guy who told me he wanted it to = a marriage ultimately if I didn't know I wanted to marry him.

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And in the future - do whatever you can to avoid "drunken fights." Nothing wrong with having a drink from time to time (as long as you are doing so in a healthy way and not as a way to self-medicate during a stressful time, etc. etc.), but there's nothing worse than knowing you should have waited to have a conversation that was scary to have when you were sober, and it probably would have gone a heck of a lot better.

 

I 100% agree. We were celebrating his sister and her fiances engagement with his family and I guess I got caught up in the moment and asked the question at a horribly wrong time under the wrong conditions. Not trying to justify my actions by any means, but I felt like I asked the question very light heartedly (Since before the blow up we were having a great day). It was when he gave his response that I got upset and withdrew from the party. He followed me to check up, and from there I tried to explain why his words hurt. I guess that frustrated him (He was also drunk) because he then stormed off, triggering my insecurity even more. Eventually, he came back and apologized but I was still upset, which led to a back and forth in which I tried to get him to understand why commitment before cohabitation was important to me. I kept telling him that his way of proceeding in relationships is valid, so I never invalided him, but I never felt understood or like he wanted to compromise (For example, even him saying something along the lines of, "While I don't see marriage now, if we live with eachother successfully for a year, I would be more than happy to propose" would have made me feel a lot more secure).

 

This conversation went on until late at night, in whcih he fell asleep while I was still upset. We woke up the next morning in silence and only briefly discussed the incident on the way home. We both agreed during that car ride that we should not have attempted to have the conversation drunk. But again, he did mention that he felt taken advantage of and that while he still loved me, was shaken by the whole lot of the argument.

 

So while I agree wholeheartedly with your post, I can't help but wonder if his dissolution towards our partnership is because I stupidly brought up such a heavy conversation at the wrong time. Then again, I've been witholding my fears and reservations of moving in with him, so while I'm upset it came out the way that it did, it was a conversation that needed to happen regardless. I just wodner if his response would have been the same...

 

Regardless, I agree that I have been bending over backwards to try to make this work. And I remember telling him that I never thought a relationship would feel like pulling teeth. I always thought my partner would be just as jazzed as I am to take these steps together and I am moreso hurt that he doesn't seem to be feeling the same way. I do suffer from feelings of abandonment which make it hard for me to end relationships I know are no good for me. I've suspected he has an avoidant attachment style in which our relationship works well when there isnt the looming thought of a greater commitment, but as soon as that thought is introduced, he distances himself and witholds his usual affections for me. (Triggering the anxiety even more, vicious vicous cycle).

 

Btw, I want to thank you for allowing me space to ramble. Actually speaking on the situation is helping my anxiety a bit even if I am still upset and hurting.

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my bf said he has felt taken advantage of and that I do not value the love and compromises he has made in our relationship (For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise)

 

Why is he reluctant to move in with you? After 3 years together, you would likely know all the important things about each other, and at your ages, it'd be a natural progression to move in together or to get married. Have you spent extended periods of time at each others places, like spending the night for 2 or 3 days? If so, how did that go? Did you ask what his worries were, of what he might find out about living together that he doesn't already know now? Why were you two drunk? Is that something you do together regularly?

 

If a guy told me it was a "huge compromise" to move in with me after 3 years together, I'd back out on the offer since instead of it being a happy occasion and the hope of building a beautiful life together, he was doing it begrudgingly and why would I want to live with someone with that sour attitude?

 

What do your friends think of him? Is your love for him clouding your judgement?

 

This watershed moment might have made him face his true feelings. Perhaps he feels like you're not "the one," or perhaps nobody is the one because he's not ready for that type of seriousness yet.

 

Don't let other people make your decisions for you, even a partner. You're driving the bus of your life, so if how he's behaving isn't how you'd expect a lifetime partner to act, perhaps use your brain instead of solely your heart to decide if you want to continue on with him or not.

 

 

We have spent many extended stays together. The latest being a 7 day road trip around Canada. Our extended trips are always a lot of fun and even manage to bring us closer together (at least thats how I feel). I know from everything I am sharing it seems like he is not in love with me, but I know deep down he is. He has paid for my trips with him when I am unable to do so (Im in grad school right now, he works full time). He has made an effort to meet/get to know my parents. He ecourages me to better myself and before this fight, has been nothing short of affectionate, patient and kind towards me. It's simply whenever this issue is raised does he start to withdraw and honestly, it probably is because he just has no desire for marriage/greater commitment to me.

 

My friends don't dislike him, but they don't really know him either. He doesn't hang out with them much.

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Wise words above.

 

Rather than frame this moment as how much space to give him, or really even spinning into a panic about whether he is fading, I'd use it as one to take advantage of some space yourself—to check in with your own thoughts and feelings about this relationship, since it sounds like there are quite a few critical places where you don't see eye to eye.

 

I may very well be wrong, but I can't help but get the impression that you're both approaching this relationship from drastically different angles, have been for a long time, and this moment of tension is a symptom of that larger disconnect—the thing you both try to ignore rising to the surface, the blinders sliding off and stinging the eyes (and heart) a bit.

 

He was 27 when you met, you were 21. I suspect what he liked is that things didn't have to be so serious, so marriage-minded from the get-go, as things would have been (in his mind) with someone closer to his age. He could be more in the moment, rather than aiming toward the future, and so on. Three years later he's still trying to live that story with you.

 

Except that's not actually you, not how you operate, not what you want. You (before even meeting him) wanted it locked in and locked down—to date with marriage and forever in mind, which is to say date someone with that shared mindset. Perhaps he seemed more serious, or a better prospect for that, because he was older and, in ways, more mature than 21-year-old dudes. Or perhaps you told yourself the story that a 27-year-old dude would probably be ready for marriage by 29, or 30, or once you moved in, or....you get the picture. And three years in you're still trying to will that story into reality.

 

It kind of seems that both of your stories are crumbling, in short, or at least clashing more than complimenting. You have to push and push to get him on your page. He might move an inch ("Alright, we can move in") but then he pushes back to get you on his page. As a result, neither of you really feel that you're on the same page. There's that little itch, always there, which gets really itchy from time to time—some booze, an engagement, and boom.

 

Speaking frankly, it's very hard for me to read the above and see that either of you are genuinely into the other person so much as into a hope about the other person. From his perspective, it's a hope that you'll chill out a bit on the marriage stuff and live in the moment (and maybe moving in will finally allow for that); from yours, it's a hope that he'll step up and get serious about the marriage stuff (ditto). Ugh. Sometimes nursing those hopes is soothing, and sometimes nursing them feels like pulling teeth.

 

Remove those hopes and what you may have is incompatibility, two people living in a opposite stories alongside each other. Not great for either party. Wanting someone who is marriage-minded isn't too much to ask, but that is not this man, and it's not this man after three years. Just like, for him, wanting someone who is more moment-minded isn't too much to ask, but that's not you.

 

I'd really think about all that.

 

When you can allow those thoughts to be entertained these moments are less panic-stricken. Speaking for myself, whenever I have a clash with someone I make my only goal to present my most authentic self—not to "keep her" or "stay together," but to "stay true." Because if I can't be my true self in a relationship, and vise versa, there is no point. But that, in part, is my own value system: staying true, to me, is far more important than staying together, being someone's husband, calling someone my wife. If I make that choice, it's because I'd learned in my bones that I'd found someone I could be true alongside.

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Have you noticed the things he says that get you hoping he wants marriage are about the PARTY, not about actually getting and being MARRIED?

 

You need to ask yourself if you're willing to give up on marriage FOREVER just to hang onto him.

 

How he is RIGHT NOW is what you need to focus on when making your decision...not on what you hope he'll "change" into once you're living together.

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Wanting someone who is marriage-minded isn't too much to ask, but that is not this man, and it's not this man after three years. Just like, for him, wanting someone who is more moment-minded isn't too much to ask, but that's not you.

 

I'd really think about all that.

 

When you can allow those thoughts to be entertained these moments are less panic-stricken. Speaking for myself, whenever I have a clash with someone I make my only goal to present my most authentic self—not to "keep her" or "stay together," but to "stay true." Because if I can't be my true self in a relationship, and vise versa, there is no point. But that, in part, is my own value system: staying true, to me, is far more important than staying together, being someone's husband, calling someone my wife. If I make that choice, it's because I'd learned in my bones that I'd found someone I could be true alongside.

 

These are such profound words, I am requoting for emphasis.

 

Marriage-minded versus moment-minded. Staying true to yourself and what you need and want.

 

OP, seek help for your abandonment fears/issues. That's really what's at issue here Imo.

 

These fears are preventing you from being "true to yourself" and what you need and want.

 

I also think he may have his own fears preventing him from being true to himself. Evidenced by him going against his true self by agreeing to move in with you, when clearly it's not something he feels comfortable with or even wants to do.

 

I am not going to fault your bf for being "moment-minded" I am very much the same.

 

Problem is you're not, which is ok, but it's causing a major clash and having a negative impact on your relationship.

 

I just came to this realization after many years of attempting to twist myself into a pretzel trying to become what my boyfriends wanted/needed me to be.

 

I invite you to read my recent thread in the relationship section, it's about this very thing.

 

Being honest with yourself. Staying true to yourself.

 

Which, when that honesty and truth does not conform with society's standards and version of how things should be (commitment, marriage, family), we may receive judgment for. I certainly have. So I proceed to twist, adjust, even though it's not ME.

 

Again, seek help for abandonment issues, they are holding you back from being your true genuine self and pursuing what you need and want.

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(For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise).

 

whoa whoa whoa.

 

He is reluctant to move in with you - it was your idea and he is compromising by doing it

 

You don't want to move in with someone unless its a step towards marriage/they plan to marry you, so by agreeing to move in, he is signaling he wants to marry you in your mind.

 

Honestly, if you"have values", wait until a guy gets down on one knee and then move in together before the wedding for logistics and convenience prior to the wedding.

 

This is completely unfair to him for you to try to cajol him into moving in with you knowing what moving in together means to you.

 

So chill out - don't move in with a guy. Either see in time if he proposes on his own or dump him and apply better standards to your next relationship.

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Hi everyone. Im sorry if I come across as a mess right now, I feel like a part of my soul is slowly dying.

 

Last Friday, my boyfriend of 3 years and I had a huge argument. While nothing nasty was said nor done to one another, we did end up drunkenly fighting over our values concerning marriage.

 

>

 

You've been given great advice today.

 

I'll state the obvious though.

 

Never discuss relationship issues while drunk. Things get said and misinterpreted. And then? Opinions get carved in stone and defended to death that would never have been aired or thought of while sober.

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(For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise).

 

whoa whoa whoa.

 

He is reluctant to move in with you - it was your idea and he is compromising by doing it

 

You don't want to move in with someone unless its a step towards marriage/they plan to marry you, so by agreeing to move in, he is signaling he wants to marry you in your mind.

 

Honestly, if you"have values", wait until a guy gets down on one knee and then move in together before the wedding for logistics and convenience prior to the wedding.

 

This is completely unfair to him for you to try to cajol him into moving in with you knowing what moving in together means to you.

 

So chill out - don't move in with a guy. Either see in time if he proposes on his own or dump him and apply better standards to your next relationship.

 

First off, he originally brought up moving in with each other back in Jan 2019. During that time though, we had another disagreement similar to this topic which made him take a step back towards that goal. Just recently, say mid June he has been wanting to move in together again. He was the one who brought up the idea both times, so I don’t think he doesn’t want to live with me, but may be using it as a reason to strengthen his argument that he compromises his values for me. I haven’t been the one to push cohabitation BECAUSE I value marriage and would like to know that’s in our future to begin with before moving in with him.

 

Now, to be fair, he hadn’t known that explicit fact until very recently. So I imagine that is something he is also weighing during our space apart right now. Like other posters have previously mentioned, I’ve been quietly hoping he would change and withholding my feelings for fear of rocking the boat. I have no intention of cajoling him or forcing him to do something he does not intrinsically desire. That’s not my character at all.

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I’ve been quietly hoping he would change and withholding my feelings for fear of rocking the boat.

 

In the annals of human relationships you'll be hard pressed to find an example in which this has proven to be a successful approach, a path toward sustainability, harmony, intimacy.

 

Let's break it down a bit. Another translation: "I've been quietly suppressing my true self for fear of losing him." And, even more succinct and less poetic: "I've been lying to him and lying to myself."

 

Dishonest foundations tend to crack. Trying to repair the cracks by adding more weight—a shared address, a joint bank account, a wedding ring—tends to deepen the cracks if they're not puttied over, first, and carefully, by being honest. With yourself, with another, together.

 

If a relationship is "a boat," per your metaphor, it needs to be able to withstand some rocking. That's what boats do, you know? They rock, back and forth, back and forth, sometimes in gentle seas, sometimes in storms. They get steady again because they are, you know, boats. That is how they are built.

 

A relationship that "works" because someone is scared to "rock the boat" is, well, a boat that is not meant for a journey out to sea. Too fragile. Leaky. It'll sink or capsize, because it was either the wrong vessel for the trip or because its leaks were fixed with bubble gum and scotch tape because one of its captains was so eager for the journey that he or she didn't check to make sure the mechanics were sound—that the boat could not merely float, but take some rocking.

 

Stuff to think about.

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In the annals of human relationships you'll be hard pressed to find an example in which this has proven to be a successful approach, a path toward sustainability, harmony, intimacy.

 

Let's break it down a bit. Another translation: "I've been quietly suppressing my true self for fear of losing him." And, even more succinct and less poetic: "I've been lying to him and lying to myself."

 

Dishonest foundations tend to crack. Trying to repair the cracks by adding more weight—a shared address, a joint bank account, a wedding ring—tends to deepen the cracks if they're not puttied over, first, and carefully, by being honest. With yourself, with another, together.

 

If a relationship is "a boat," per your metaphor, it needs to be able to withstand some rocking. That's what boats do, you know? They rock, back and forth, back and forth, sometimes in gentle seas, sometimes in storms. They get steady again because they are, you know, boats. That is how they are built.

 

A relationship that "works" because someone is scared to "rock the boat" is, well, a boat that is not meant for a journey out to sea. Too fragile. Leaky. It'll sink or capsize, because it was either the wrong vessel for the trip or because its leaks were fixed with bubble gum and scotch tape because one of its captains was so eager for the journey that he or she didn't check to make sure the mechanics were sound—that the boat could not merely float, but take some rocking.

 

Stuff to think about.

 

OP, please please please, listen to this^! ALL of it. Hell, cut and paste it to your fridge and read every morning!

 

You are doing what I always did, twisting, adjusting, conforming, compromising who I was and my own values.

 

Why? You fear losing him (you all but admitted it), which is the absolute worst reason for remaining in a relationship wherein you are both literally lying to yourselves and each other.

 

This thread is hitting me hard because until very VERY recently, I used to be YOU, in the other direction. It was my boyfriends who wanted more commitment, my ex -- marriage.

 

And after 5.5 years I agreed to marry him because it was what HE wanted and I thought I was doing the right thing - I wasn't. I thought a "relationship" and marriage was what we (especially as women) were supposed to want, what society tells us we should want, so I conformed. Problem was, it was a lie. It wasn't (and isn't) who I am.

 

And then for reasons I don't wish to go into now it all fell to pieces, which is just as well as neither of us were being genuine and true to ourselves or each other anyway.

 

I suspect all this is difficult for you to read and accept because clearly you are not ready or even desirous of walking away right now.

 

So you will catapult yourself into a sort of denial and from what I can see, doing back flips now in an attempt to justify why all this is okay.

 

Of course if you'd rather stay and continue lying that's fine, but I would encourage you, since you do plan to stay, at least that what it looks like to me, to start being HONEST with him (and yourself) do not be afraid to rock that boat because just as blue said, if that boat can't withstand some rocking without sinking, it's a boat not meant for a journey out to sea (i.e. marriage or even a long term commitment).

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Yep i agree witht he others OP. You are twisting yourself aorund to fit his life and visions. He does not want to get married which is fine but if it's a deal breaker for you then you need to walk away now and end things for good. You need to be really honest with yourself at this point in time. Take a few weeks for yourself to think this over. If he wants to come back tell him you want your space for a while. This is a really important decision and you should not rush into anything blindly.

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We have had blow ups about this before. He doesn't see the benefit to marriage in general, but has been warming up to the idea. For instance, he will ponder about what sort of song our first dance will be too, or what type of alcohol we'd serve our guest. (his sister is getting married in August so maybe thats why he has been asking these questions). However, whenever I ask if he sees himself marrying ME, he says he does not know. Either because we havent been together long enough (This was the first time I asked him 1.5 years into the relationship), we havent lived with each other yet (This most recent time I've asked), or because he doesnt think we share the same values. (I value building a partnership that builds towards a marriage, while he values dating and being in a relationship in the moment and focusing on new experiences with his partner).

 

I have never got a clear answer from him regarding his feelings to be honest. Maybe he just doesnt want to marry ME. But then, why stay in the relationship and ask to move in.

 

I think you're confusing interest in the reception with interest in marriage vows. I dated plenty of guys who loved chatting about wedding receptions and about parties celebrating the marriage or "if we were married we could have huge bbqs for our friends, etc". You're also conflating interest in moving in (although he seems reluctant) with interest in commitment including marriage. I wanted to get married from the time I knew what that meant and had no interest in living together as some kind of test for marriage especially. And for us I'm glad we didn't do that as it would have created unrealistic expectations since shortly after we married we became parents and shared my 500 square foot apartment the first three months -living together before parenthood would have had no relevance to what it was like to live together with a newborn.

 

Anyway, many people stay in long term relationships where they are not interested in marriage and/or hope that their partner will stop focusing on marriage and just be happy with what she/he has. I would not marry someone who needed convincing to marry. I've been on that side of things -trying to have my partner reassure me that marriage was a good idea despite my doubts -and what a mistake!

 

I am not sure how valuing new experiences with a partner means that marriage isn't important nor do I get how "being in the moment" with your partner can't coexist nicely with future goals. I've always valued new experiences -we're in our 50s and just had another one last week! - and I do work on living in the moment -my partner is better at that than me - but it has nothing to do with also having and working towards future goals. I think he is giving you excuses. I think he wants the status quo, and that is fine for him. It is not fine for you. That's a decision you have to make -whether to settle for what he is offering - if you knew he was never going to marry you how long would you stay?

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He was the one who brought up the idea both times, so I don’t think he doesn’t want to live with me,

 

...but may be using it as a reason to strengthen his argument that he compromises his values for me.

 

Sweetie, these two statements contradict each other.

 

If moving in with you compromises his values, HIS truth (which is his argument), then no he actually does not want to move in and live with you.

 

I am surprised you can't see that, but as I said I think you're in a sort of denial as accepting the reality that you are on two completely different paths is just too painful for you to acknowledge right now.

 

Accepting that reality may mean re-thinking the entire relationship and possibly leaving which is also something you are not emotionally ready to do right now.

 

Hence the back-tracking, back-flipping and denial.

 

Been there, done that, so I understand it.

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Try to think of it this way:

 

You go ahead and move in together with him hoping you'll be satisfied with cohabitating indefinitely and you hoping it will lead to marriage. The both of you are hoping the other one will "change". Do you think it would hurt more to end it now (with the realization that you're both terrific people but are simply incompatible) or to move in and 4 or 5 years later find out that he STILL doesn't want marriage and he finds out you STILL do? How do you think that would turn out?

 

I bet you two would end up despising one another or at least being full of resentment toward the other one for "wasting my time". Ending it now will be painful (of course), but I promise it would be worse years down the line.

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Try to think of it this way:

 

You go ahead and move in together with him hoping you'll be satisfied with cohabitating indefinitely and you hoping it will lead to marriage. The both of you are hoping the other one will "change". Do you think it would hurt more to end it now (with the realization that you're both terrific people but are simply incompatible) or to move in and 4 or 5 years later find out that he STILL doesn't want marriage and he finds out you STILL do? How do you think that would turn out?

 

I bet you two would end up despising one another or at least being full of resentment toward the other one for "wasting my time". Ending it now will be painful (of course), but I promise it would be worse years down the line.

 

And consider the logistics whether you rent or own a home together, furniture, finding a new place, pets, etc.

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First off, he originally brought up moving in with each other back in Jan 2019. During that time though, we had another disagreement similar to this topic which made him take a step back towards that goal. Just recently, say mid June he has been wanting to move in together again. He was the one who brought up the idea both times, so I don’t think he doesn’t want to live with me, but may be using it as a reason to strengthen his argument that he compromises his values for me. I haven’t been the one to push cohabitation BECAUSE I value marriage and would like to know that’s in our future to begin with before moving in with him.

 

Now, to be fair, he hadn’t known that explicit fact until very recently. So I imagine that is something he is also weighing during our space apart right now. Like other posters have previously mentioned, I’ve been quietly hoping he would change and withholding my feelings for fear of rocking the boat. I have no intention of cajoling him or forcing him to do something he does not intrinsically desire. That’s not my character at all.

 

He brought it up to find out your opinions and to feel you out, not "honey, i found the perfect apartment for 2. What do you think about moving in?"

He probably did not know moving in=marriage to you. You admit this.

Now you are arguing because you are holding him to the fact that he brought moving in up,

but he does NOT think moving in means he wants to marry you

So you are taking him not wanting to move in NOW as a rejection of a future with you -

when in fact you basically told him that you only want to move in with someone if there is a guarantee of marriage.

 

That conversation belongs in the getting to know you part of the relationship.

The part when you first date and say "i am looking to find someone to date in order to find my future wife/husband" or"i am just looking to have fun and meet people"

"I see myself having kids" "I don't really believe in 'living with someone' unless you are engaged". "i hope to move to South Africa in a few years and the person i ultimately end up in an LTR with will want the same"

 

Rock the boat off the bat. Weed out any guy that doesn't want what you want. And then from the guys who want what you want, date them until you find out if its a match or not.

 

Anyway - i think this is an impasse. Don't move in. If you choose to continue to date, that's your business. But you know where he stands.

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Why didn't you tell him early on?

 

Honestly, I'd be rather upset if someone had the values you do and had not made them clear until being asked to move in together!

 

It's fine it's your values, but you have to be honest and upfront. And this trying to convince him to understand these values, well he doesn't have to. It's enough to know you are incompatible to go any further.

 

But you really wasted his time. There were SO many people, when I was dating, who were all about getting married in the near future and made that crystal clear very early on in getting to know each other. You won't have trouble finding someone like that. Don't force your values of marriage as the end game on him.

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