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Thread: How much space do I give my boyfriend after an argument concerning marriage?

  1. #11
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    Have you noticed the things he says that get you hoping he wants marriage are about the PARTY, not about actually getting and being MARRIED?

    You need to ask yourself if you're willing to give up on marriage FOREVER just to hang onto him.

    How he is RIGHT NOW is what you need to focus on when making your decision...not on what you hope he'll "change" into once you're living together.

  2. #12
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle

    Wanting someone who is marriage-minded isn't too much to ask, but that is not this man, and it's not this man after three years. Just like, for him, wanting someone who is more moment-minded isn't too much to ask, but that's not you.

    I'd really think about all that.

    When you can allow those thoughts to be entertained these moments are less panic-stricken. Speaking for myself, whenever I have a clash with someone I make my only goal to present my most authentic self—not to "keep her" or "stay together," but to "stay true." Because if I can't be my true self in a relationship, and vise versa, there is no point. But that, in part, is my own value system: staying true, to me, is far more important than staying together, being someone's husband, calling someone my wife. If I make that choice, it's because I'd learned in my bones that I'd found someone I could be true alongside.
    These are such profound words, I am requoting for emphasis.

    Marriage-minded versus moment-minded. Staying true to yourself and what you need and want.

    OP, seek help for your abandonment fears/issues. That's really what's at issue here Imo.

    These fears are preventing you from being "true to yourself" and what you need and want.

    I also think he may have his own fears preventing him from being true to himself. Evidenced by him going against his true self by agreeing to move in with you, when clearly it's not something he feels comfortable with or even wants to do.

    I am not going to fault your bf for being "moment-minded" I am very much the same.

    Problem is you're not, which is ok, but it's causing a major clash and having a negative impact on your relationship.

    I just came to this realization after many years of attempting to twist myself into a pretzel trying to become what my boyfriends wanted/needed me to be.

    I invite you to read my recent thread in the relationship section, it's about this very thing.

    Being honest with yourself. Staying true to yourself.

    Which, when that honesty and truth does not conform with society's standards and version of how things should be (commitment, marriage, family), we may receive judgment for. I certainly have. So I proceed to twist, adjust, even though it's not ME.

    Again, seek help for abandonment issues, they are holding you back from being your true genuine self and pursuing what you need and want.
    Last edited by katrina1980; 07-09-2019 at 10:58 AM.

  3. #13
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    (For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise).

    whoa whoa whoa.

    He is reluctant to move in with you - it was your idea and he is compromising by doing it

    You don't want to move in with someone unless its a step towards marriage/they plan to marry you, so by agreeing to move in, he is signaling he wants to marry you in your mind.

    Honestly, if you"have values", wait until a guy gets down on one knee and then move in together before the wedding for logistics and convenience prior to the wedding.

    This is completely unfair to him for you to try to cajol him into moving in with you knowing what moving in together means to you.

    So chill out - don't move in with a guy. Either see in time if he proposes on his own or dump him and apply better standards to your next relationship.

  4. #14
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    Originally Posted by felurian
    Hi everyone. Im sorry if I come across as a mess right now, I feel like a part of my soul is slowly dying.

    Last Friday, my boyfriend of 3 years and I had a huge argument. While nothing nasty was said nor done to one another, we did end up drunkenly fighting over our values concerning marriage.
    <<snip>>

    You've been given great advice today.

    I'll state the obvious though.

    Never discuss relationship issues while drunk. Things get said and misinterpreted. And then? Opinions get carved in stone and defended to death that would never have been aired or thought of while sober.

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  6. #15
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    Originally Posted by abitbroken
    (For example, he was even reluctant to move in with me, so for him taking that step is a huge compromise).

    whoa whoa whoa.

    He is reluctant to move in with you - it was your idea and he is compromising by doing it

    You don't want to move in with someone unless its a step towards marriage/they plan to marry you, so by agreeing to move in, he is signaling he wants to marry you in your mind.

    Honestly, if you"have values", wait until a guy gets down on one knee and then move in together before the wedding for logistics and convenience prior to the wedding.

    This is completely unfair to him for you to try to cajol him into moving in with you knowing what moving in together means to you.

    So chill out - don't move in with a guy. Either see in time if he proposes on his own or dump him and apply better standards to your next relationship.
    First off, he originally brought up moving in with each other back in Jan 2019. During that time though, we had another disagreement similar to this topic which made him take a step back towards that goal. Just recently, say mid June he has been wanting to move in together again. He was the one who brought up the idea both times, so I don’t think he doesn’t want to live with me, but may be using it as a reason to strengthen his argument that he compromises his values for me. I haven’t been the one to push cohabitation BECAUSE I value marriage and would like to know that’s in our future to begin with before moving in with him.

    Now, to be fair, he hadn’t known that explicit fact until very recently. So I imagine that is something he is also weighing during our space apart right now. Like other posters have previously mentioned, I’ve been quietly hoping he would change and withholding my feelings for fear of rocking the boat. I have no intention of cajoling him or forcing him to do something he does not intrinsically desire. That’s not my character at all.

  7. #16
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    Don’t waste your time. ALWAYS marry someone with the same values who is thrilled to marry you .

  8. #17
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by felurian
    I’ve been quietly hoping he would change and withholding my feelings for fear of rocking the boat.
    In the annals of human relationships you'll be hard pressed to find an example in which this has proven to be a successful approach, a path toward sustainability, harmony, intimacy.

    Let's break it down a bit. Another translation: "I've been quietly suppressing my true self for fear of losing him." And, even more succinct and less poetic: "I've been lying to him and lying to myself."

    Dishonest foundations tend to crack. Trying to repair the cracks by adding more weight—a shared address, a joint bank account, a wedding ring—tends to deepen the cracks if they're not puttied over, first, and carefully, by being honest. With yourself, with another, together.

    If a relationship is "a boat," per your metaphor, it needs to be able to withstand some rocking. That's what boats do, you know? They rock, back and forth, back and forth, sometimes in gentle seas, sometimes in storms. They get steady again because they are, you know, boats. That is how they are built.

    A relationship that "works" because someone is scared to "rock the boat" is, well, a boat that is not meant for a journey out to sea. Too fragile. Leaky. It'll sink or capsize, because it was either the wrong vessel for the trip or because its leaks were fixed with bubble gum and scotch tape because one of its captains was so eager for the journey that he or she didn't check to make sure the mechanics were sound—that the boat could not merely float, but take some rocking.

    Stuff to think about.

  9. #18
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    In the annals of human relationships you'll be hard pressed to find an example in which this has proven to be a successful approach, a path toward sustainability, harmony, intimacy.

    Let's break it down a bit. Another translation: "I've been quietly suppressing my true self for fear of losing him." And, even more succinct and less poetic: "I've been lying to him and lying to myself."

    Dishonest foundations tend to crack. Trying to repair the cracks by adding more weight—a shared address, a joint bank account, a wedding ring—tends to deepen the cracks if they're not puttied over, first, and carefully, by being honest. With yourself, with another, together.

    If a relationship is "a boat," per your metaphor, it needs to be able to withstand some rocking. That's what boats do, you know? They rock, back and forth, back and forth, sometimes in gentle seas, sometimes in storms. They get steady again because they are, you know, boats. That is how they are built.

    A relationship that "works" because someone is scared to "rock the boat" is, well, a boat that is not meant for a journey out to sea. Too fragile. Leaky. It'll sink or capsize, because it was either the wrong vessel for the trip or because its leaks were fixed with bubble gum and scotch tape because one of its captains was so eager for the journey that he or she didn't check to make sure the mechanics were sound—that the boat could not merely float, but take some rocking.

    Stuff to think about.
    OP, please please please, listen to this^! ALL of it. Hell, cut and paste it to your fridge and read every morning!

    You are doing what I always did, twisting, adjusting, conforming, compromising who I was and my own values.

    Why? You fear losing him (you all but admitted it), which is the absolute worst reason for remaining in a relationship wherein you are both literally lying to yourselves and each other.

    This thread is hitting me hard because until very VERY recently, I used to be YOU, in the other direction. It was my boyfriends who wanted more commitment, my ex -- marriage.

    And after 5.5 years I agreed to marry him because it was what HE wanted and I thought I was doing the right thing - I wasn't. I thought a "relationship" and marriage was what we (especially as women) were supposed to want, what society tells us we should want, so I conformed. Problem was, it was a lie. It wasn't (and isn't) who I am.

    And then for reasons I don't wish to go into now it all fell to pieces, which is just as well as neither of us were being genuine and true to ourselves or each other anyway.

    I suspect all this is difficult for you to read and accept because clearly you are not ready or even desirous of walking away right now.

    So you will catapult yourself into a sort of denial and from what I can see, doing back flips now in an attempt to justify why all this is okay.

    Of course if you'd rather stay and continue lying that's fine, but I would encourage you, since you do plan to stay, at least that what it looks like to me, to start being HONEST with him (and yourself) do not be afraid to rock that boat because just as blue said, if that boat can't withstand some rocking without sinking, it's a boat not meant for a journey out to sea (i.e. marriage or even a long term commitment).
    Last edited by katrina1980; 07-09-2019 at 12:59 PM.

  10. #19
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    Yep i agree witht he others OP. You are twisting yourself aorund to fit his life and visions. He does not want to get married which is fine but if it's a deal breaker for you then you need to walk away now and end things for good. You need to be really honest with yourself at this point in time. Take a few weeks for yourself to think this over. If he wants to come back tell him you want your space for a while. This is a really important decision and you should not rush into anything blindly.

  11. #20
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    Originally Posted by felurian
    We have had blow ups about this before. He doesn't see the benefit to marriage in general, but has been warming up to the idea. For instance, he will ponder about what sort of song our first dance will be too, or what type of alcohol we'd serve our guest. (his sister is getting married in August so maybe thats why he has been asking these questions). However, whenever I ask if he sees himself marrying ME, he says he does not know. Either because we havent been together long enough (This was the first time I asked him 1.5 years into the relationship), we havent lived with each other yet (This most recent time I've asked), or because he doesnt think we share the same values. (I value building a partnership that builds towards a marriage, while he values dating and being in a relationship in the moment and focusing on new experiences with his partner).

    I have never got a clear answer from him regarding his feelings to be honest. Maybe he just doesnt want to marry ME. But then, why stay in the relationship and ask to move in.
    I think you're confusing interest in the reception with interest in marriage vows. I dated plenty of guys who loved chatting about wedding receptions and about parties celebrating the marriage or "if we were married we could have huge bbqs for our friends, etc". You're also conflating interest in moving in (although he seems reluctant) with interest in commitment including marriage. I wanted to get married from the time I knew what that meant and had no interest in living together as some kind of test for marriage especially. And for us I'm glad we didn't do that as it would have created unrealistic expectations since shortly after we married we became parents and shared my 500 square foot apartment the first three months -living together before parenthood would have had no relevance to what it was like to live together with a newborn.

    Anyway, many people stay in long term relationships where they are not interested in marriage and/or hope that their partner will stop focusing on marriage and just be happy with what she/he has. I would not marry someone who needed convincing to marry. I've been on that side of things -trying to have my partner reassure me that marriage was a good idea despite my doubts -and what a mistake!

    I am not sure how valuing new experiences with a partner means that marriage isn't important nor do I get how "being in the moment" with your partner can't coexist nicely with future goals. I've always valued new experiences -we're in our 50s and just had another one last week! - and I do work on living in the moment -my partner is better at that than me - but it has nothing to do with also having and working towards future goals. I think he is giving you excuses. I think he wants the status quo, and that is fine for him. It is not fine for you. That's a decision you have to make -whether to settle for what he is offering - if you knew he was never going to marry you how long would you stay?

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