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Thread: Please help. Can we be together? When do I give up?

  1. #11
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    uzbyz9, I'm new to this thread but have read every post.

    I don't have much advice as it's all been said already, all I can add is I hope you are taking your mental health very seriously, are under the care of a qualified psychiatrist, also pursuing therapy with someone qualified to help with you such issues.

    I very much agree with bluecastle re the chicken or the egg analogy.

    From what you've posted it really does appear that your depression stemmed (stems) from the intensity of your feelings for this woman and your relationship; depression typically doesn't suddenly pop up out of nowhere, something in your life caused it.

    And as long as you continue to maintain your interaction with this woman, the current state of your mental health is not going to improve.

    Please trust me on that as I myself have struggled with depression and it's very much affected by my choice of friends, boyfriends and relationships in general.

    Since understanding this, I choose to surround myself only with people who "add" to my life, enhance my life, who bring joy to my life, who support me and bring good healthy positive energy to my life. I do same for them.

    Again from what I've read your ex is NOT doing this. She's all over the place emotionally, doesn't know what she wants, appears to be quite unstable; it may not be intentional but nevertheless, it's screwing with your head!!

    It's severely impacting your mental health, I can tell just from reading your posts, you are completely obsessed with her, wracking your brain in an effort to figure her out and what motivates her, when what you should be doing is focusing on YOU, how all this is affecting you, your mental health and ability to move on.

    My own brother went through something similar when he was in college. His long term gf broke up with him, leaving him utterly distraught, confused, depressed, even suicidal at times, for MONTHS.

    He eventually got over it (took years) and he is now left with severe commitment and trust issues, is literally incapable of becoming emotionally close to a woman, develop intimacy and love, and spends his life having frivolous casual sexual interactions that he runs from as soon as the woman starts hinting for more.

    You are heading in that same direction uz, please seek help!! And force yourself to stop focusing on her. Be strong! Be resilient!

    You're not weak, so don't choose to be (which is what you are doing now) because it's easier than facing your issues and seeking the proper help to resolve and moving on, which takes strength and courage.

    Be that guy, not this guy wallowing in what was and not accepting what currently is.
    Last edited by katrina1980; 06-18-2019 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #12
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    Originally Posted by katrina1980
    uzbyz9, I'm new to this thread but have read every post.

    I don't have much advice as it's all been said already, all I can add is I hope you are taking your mental health very seriously, are under the care of a qualified psychiatrist, also pursuing therapy with someone qualified to help with you such issues.

    I very much agree with bluecastle re the chicken or the egg analogy.

    From what you've posted it really does appear that your depression stemmed (stems) from the intensity of your feelings for this woman and your relationship; depression typically doesn't suddenly pop up out of nowhere, something in your life caused it.

    And as long as you continue to maintain your interaction with this woman, the current state of your mental health is not going to improve.

    Please trust me on that as I myself have struggled with depression and it's very much affected by my choice of friends, boyfriends and relationships in general.

    Since understanding this, I choose to surround myself only with people who "add" to my life, enhance my life, who bring joy to my life, who support me and bring good healthy positive energy to my life. I do same for them.

    Again from what I've read your ex is NOT doing this. She's all over the place emotionally, doesn't know what she wants, appears to be quite unstable; it may not be intentional but nevertheless, it's screwing with your head!!

    It's severely impacting your mental health, I can tell just from reading your posts, you are completely obsessed with her, wracking your brain in an effort to figure her out and what motivates her, when what you should be doing is focusing on YOU, how all this is affecting you, your mental health and ability to move on.

    My own brother went through something similar when he was in college. His long term gf broke up with him, leaving him utterly distraught, confused, depressed, even suicidal at times, for MONTHS.

    He eventually got over it (took years) and he is now left with severe commitment and trust issues, is literally incapable of becoming emotionally close to a woman, develop intimacy and love, and spends his life having frivolous casual sexual interactions that he runs from as soon as the woman starts hinting for more.

    You are heading in that same direction uz, please seek help!! And force yourself to stop focusing on her. Be strong! Be resilient!

    You're not weak, so don't choose to be (which is what you are doing now) because it's easier than facing your issues and seeking the proper help to resolve and moving on, which takes strength and courage.

    Be that guy, not this guy wallowing in what was and not accepting what currently is.
    Thank you for your reply katrina1980. I'm sorry to hear that your brother experienced that and that it has left him with some lasting scars.

    Please know that I am taking my mental health seriously, and luckily it has steadily improved. I am still seeking and accessing professional help to further work on this.

    Re chicken and egg, I suppose it could have been a factor. Things were going well at the time though, and I have experienced depression before. I, too, like your brother, have previously spent years avoiding emotional closeness, intimacy and running away from people when they got too close. I lost a parent at a young age and wasn't able to deal with that in the healthiest way. Losing that support felt like all my support was gone. That's why I fear that I am, as you've quite rightly said, fixated on this relationship. This person was the first I've met that allowed me the space to be open, grow close to, and develop a very deep emotional bond with. When things are great, they're great, and she was supportive when I was at my worse. The fact I've put in so much to this and invested a hell of a lot makes it seem impossible to let go. Yes, I fear not having that with anyone again, but I don't want it either. People have often walked out of my life in difficult situations, and so I learnt to close off to avoid the hurt. I finally open up after years, and the outcome remains the same, only allowing myself to form such a bond means it hurts all that much more. I don't want to be the closed off person I was before the relationship, but I do fear I could easily revert back to that. I think I became too dependent on this relationship.

    I'm glad that you are enjoying life more now by surrounding yourself with the right people. Thank you for the caring expressed in your post, and your brother's situation really has resonated with a worse version of myself, that took a lot of work and habit breaking to overcome. I hope I will use that same strength in this instance as I move forward. I agree with what you've said, completely. It's just hard to accept. I will with time.

  3. #13
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    >>The fact I've put in so much to this and invested a hell of a lot makes it seem impossible to let go. <<

    Actually it's not impossible uz, it's just the story you are telling yourself cause it's easier than doing the hard work of extricating yourself from it, and your ex.

    Try telling yourself a different story! Tell yourself it's not impossible, that you're strong, and resilient and you can and will get over this and move on. And have learned something valuable from it that you can take with you into your next relationship.

    It's a choice uz. Your choice.

    I highly doubt you're happy living like this, in this "obsession." I dunno maybe you are! Some people are, even while professing they're not.

    But then we see them here months, years later, still obsessing about it, in one form or another.

    Do you want to be that guy uz? The guy hanging on for dear life to something that once was, but no longer is?

    I've learned the first step is acceptance. I honestly don't think you've accepted your relationship is truly over, you still harbor hopes of one day reconciling, and it's keeping you stuck.

    Again, you're NOT a weak man uz, so don't choose to be by hanging on to something and someone who has demonstrated to you in so many ways, she does not want what you want, with you or perhaps anyone.

    I apologize if that sounds harsh, it's just that I can identify with what you're experiencing in so many ways, and it was ONLY after I actually accepted the reality of what currently is, not what once was, but currently is, that I was able to let go and move.

    I wish you the best of luck of your journey forward uz. Please check back in, I care and am interested in your progress as you heal. xx

  4. #14
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    Originally Posted by uzbyz9
    As an update, we've spoken pretty much all day today, about life in general, work coming up etc. It was quite high quality, but I did mess up a little and try and instigate a meeting which made her shut down a little. Then she got a little angry with me about a situation that unfolded post break up, and tried to create some drama. I apologised for my part in making her feel upset, (I always take responsibility but in this case I didn't actually do anything wrong) and diffused the drama with a bit of humour and a level head. Again, her wanting to keep in contact seems strange to me, seeming really open and then suddenly closed off, she often blows hot and cold, and then bringing up old drama which really didn't need to be discussed? Why would a dumper act in this way? I want her back and love her so much, that at this stage it was hard for me to try and end that argument because at least it was some kind of contact.
    What I see here—and I'm saying this with only your best interests at heart—is the opposite of "high quality."

    To break that down a bit: the "quality" part is generic small talk, which was not genuine or quality on either end, since what you really wanted was to smooth road toward instigating a meeting, keeping that reconciliation door (as you're viewing it) pried open before it shuts. She then shut down, as people do when they get a whiff of disingenuousness—low quality. She then got upset about something unreasonable—low quality. You nonetheless apologized for something you didn't feel deserved an apology—low quality. You get an illusion of a reward in smoothing things over again through humor—low quality. You end the talk spinning around about her motivations for talking to you in the first place—low quality.

    Net gains there? All negatives. Muddy waters getting muddier, sludgier.

    That's not fun to read, I know. But if you can take just one percent of the above and let it alter your story a bit I think you'll find yourself in a healthier place, a truer place, accepting not only of this moment but that this moment is the best, for both of you, since it is what is real. People who function together, regardless of a label, do not communicate like this; communicating in a dysfunctional way does not produce functionality; it simply makes dysfunction the norm, and rewires the head in draining ways that, per Katrina's posts, feel a lot like depression. I really encourage you to think about that a bit.

    I know you're not going to let go of the idea of letting this go after reading this. But, hard as it is, please know that this is not the road to reconciliation. If you don't let go of this—what was, along with this draining dynamic—then there is no next chapter because this is that chapter. For her, it's not a bad one. She gets a doting ex to ease the breakup; for you, it's a recipe for agony, for finding false comfort in obsession. That's when those muddy waters turn to concrete, and harden around your ankles.

    I'm not implying that your connection with her is bogus. But, right now, it is not a healthy one. It's not serving you. It's wearing you down, and you know what? People—be they strangers or an ex you still have feelings for—are not attracted to worn down people. They like strong people. So, if you need to think of this in terms of reconciliation, remember that the only chance for that, slim as it may be, will come with you being strong, genuinely. The hot/cold, push/pull, on/off stuff? That is weakness—your weak points attaching to hers and causing fission that feels like connection. But history has shown you that this sort of connection is too fragile to be sustained. To find the new connection points—with her, with anyone—means to find them first within yourself.

    And they're there, right there, begging for your attention.

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  6. #15
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    You leaping to respond every time she contacts you...is the OPPOSITE of attractive.

  7. #16
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    I think what blue and bolt are saying (as well as I) is that the actions you are currently taking that you think (or hope) are pulling her closer, are actually doing the opposite.

    They're causing her to lose respect for you, seeing you as some sort of puppet (or worse doormat) that she can call on for attention and ego boost whenever she's so inclined.

    And trust me when a woman loses respect for a man, that's pretty much the kiss of death.

    Oh she'll continue contacting you, for the attention and ego boost, while pursuing other men to date and have a relationship with, meanwhile you're still pining away hoping beyond all hope, that you will someday reconcile. Which, operating under your current dynamic, I can almost guarantee is not gonna happen.

    As I said earlier uz, your choice.

  8. #17
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    Originally Posted by katrina1980

    I highly doubt you're happy living like this, in this "obsession." I dunno maybe you are! Some people are, even while professing they're not.
    Honestly, I'm not. I did have concerns and wonder about the relationship whilst we were together, but the ebbs and flows of her actions towards me always kept me there. I'm not naïve enough to think I'm not seeing this through rose-tinted glasses right now, I'm sure I am. I was happy with her a lot of the time, but over the course of our on/off cycle there have been plenty of times when it has been completely the opposite for me.

    Thank you again for your kind words katrina1980 , they are appreciated. Please don't apologise for sounding harsh, I came here for advice and insight, whether or not that's hard to hear.

    In terms of not accepting, you're right. I can't lie and say that I have completely accepted it yet in my heart and mind, despite obviously telling her that I have. With the on/off nature that has become a pattern, that acceptance seems all the more hard. Every time we've broken up before, there's been the same signs, the same progression, and we've always found our way back together. But yes, it's keeping me stuck. Any advice on how I can start to accept it more quickly? I worry that I won't for a long while, what with working together the next 2 months and also having a previous relationship where I felt only a fraction of love that I feel for this woman, and even then it took me a good while to accept it and move on.

  9. #18
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    Thanks bluecastle again for your response. The analysis of that interaction seems fair and justified.

    I do want to let go of this and this dynamic. As much as I want to be with her, I know the cycle isn't healthy, and I'd love more than anything for us to be able to find ourselves in a better one. There have been glimpses of that possibility over the past, I guess it's what's fuelling the painful hope that it could happen still.

    As for your insight on connection points, that's very interestingly put. I can be genuinely strong, and will get there eventually. In terms of my weak points attaching to hers, again, very interesting, something I've never thought about. But it definitely seems true. I hope I'll soon be on the path to strength and uncovering those strong connection points within myself that brought us together in the first place, even if it doesn't lead to reconciling. Thank you again for the response.

  10. #19
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    boltnrun and katrina1980, you are both right. I think it's time to bite the bullet, go NC for the rest of this week. It will make it a little easier in knowing that I will see her on Monday I guess. Hard, harder when the urges come. Hopefully it will give me some time to collect myself, do some stuff I had planned but haven't got round to doing because of wallowing, and go into the job with a stronger, more positive frame of mind. What would be ideal is if she wasn't going to be there at all. The job is a great place to meet new people and friends, and I was so looking forward to it as a refresher, her there will dampen that a bit. Another part of me hopes my true self will shine and she'll want to be back in my arms, and so it's a good thing her being there too.

    Regardless, I think it's time to start focussing on me for the immediate future, and getting to a place where I'm strong for myself, and if that's attractive to others, maybe even her, that's a bonus. Thanks for the replies once again. It's been tough, but very useful to vent and talk here.

  11. #20
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    uz, this may sound extreme, but it's something I would do if I found myself in the situation you are -- trying to get over someone while having to still work with them.

    And that is, find a new job.

    Of course my skills are quite marketable, so not sure how possible that would be for you, but it's worth considering.

    I cannot imagine working with my ex, or even just seeing him at the office everyday, while trying to move on.

    Not gonna happen!

    uz, one thing I learned is that you have to help yourself. You have to take steps, as difficult as those steps are, to extricate yourself, mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

    I don't think you will be able to do that seeing her everyday, even in passing. It keeps it all alive in your head (and heart).

    Breaking up is often compared to breaking an addiction and the only way to break an addiction is cold turkey. 100% cold turkey.

    Will it be the most difficult you've ever done in your life? You betcha!

    But it's totally worth it in the end cause it frees you -- opens your heart for the "right" woman and right relationship.

    Unfortunately, while I believe you did share some great times in the beginning -- well, I think Liam Gallagher (Oasis) said it best in these lyrics from one of my favorite songs/ballads.

    'Cause all of the stars are fading away
    Just try not to worry, you'll see them someday
    Take what you need, and be on your way
    And stop crying your heart out

    Get up (get up)
    Come on (come on)
    Why're you scared? (I'm not scared)
    You'll never change what's been and gone


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