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Thread: First Dates

  1. #1
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    First Dates

    I've been going on dates with a lot of guys, my goal is 100 dates by the end of the year. None are sexual, they are always out in public, and have been very fun. I met two guys so far that I think could be great potential matches for me that I'll call Ethan and Aidan.

    Ethan and I went out last week, and had a fantastic time. He didn't do anything to make me feel uncomfortable, we laughed and joked a lot, and it was fun. Before leaving, he said he hoped we could do it again, and didn't do anything aggressive like try to kiss me. We have been texting and talking everyday since, but he has not told me he wants to see me again. He initiates all phone calls, and I reciprocate.

    Aidan was the best date I've ever been on so far. He's a guy born and raised in my hometown, we figured out that we were classmates in pre-K, we have TONS of friends in common, even people that are from other areas. I felt like we could really relate to each other, our date was very fun, he reconnected with my best friend who he was also close to in middle school, and we laughed and joked about old time gossip from events around town. He's the kind of guy I'd actually feel comfortable dating, and that I think would fit into my life well.

    When we ended the date, he gave me a hug and said he'd text me if that was okay with me. He texted me that he had an awesome time after the date, and I responded. He didn't text the day after, but he did the second day and we were joking and texting for a few days after. I felt like maybe he was only texting me to be polite, so I stopped responding for a few days, so he called me yesterday. We had a great fun conversation, he told me he was off work and just hanging out this weekend, asked what I was doing, and told me he'd like it if I called him. He didn't say he wanted to hang out again, he never even hinted about us seeing each other.

    I'm not sure if Ethan or Aidan are interested in me, and I have new dates lined up for next week. I also don't know if I should show more interest, especially in Aidan so he knows that I'd love to see him again. I always see articles about women chasing men, and I've often met men that expected me to come after them, so I'm being very passive and trying to wait around and gauge men's interest. I just wouldn't want to loose out on a guy that may be a good fit for me due to my own social awkwardness and bad self esteem. I'm always assuming people don't like me, and don't want me around, and it often hurts me.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    I think first you need to work on your self esteem. It sounds like with all the dates youíre trying to fill a void. I think have fun with Ethan and Aidan and if something transpires from one great, just work on your own happiness because they canít be the only reason to feel accepted, neither can the other dates.

    I find things also always have a way of working themselves out in the dating world. Itís okay if you donít go on 100 dates. Itís okay if Ethan or Aidan donít work out. You need to tell yourself these things to take the pressure off.

    I would seek counseling as to have someone unbiased help you come up with ways to treasure the beautiful person that you are.

    Once you love yourself as cliche as this sounds then youíre more open to finding love.

    I have battled self esteem issues for as long as I can remember and with counseling I learned to find my own happiness. Once I found it I was more receptive to not putting up with much, weeding out the toxic people and I found my love.


    Lisa

  3. #3
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    I agree with limichelle.

    I mean, if the genuine goal is 100 dates then you wouldn't be particularly invested in Ethan or Aidan since they're just blockades to the 98 or so to go. But, of course, the pressure you're already putting on Ethan and Aidan is connected to a bigger pressure about Dating Mattering or Dating Being the Answer to...well, to what?

    It's just dating. The more you mean to yourself, per the cliche, the less it meansóand, oddly, the less it means the more space there is for it to go places. Because you're not playing Connection Chess but just connecting, or not, and that's all good.

    That said, you asked for specific advice so I'll give it. My feeling in general is: keep the passive communication to a minimal. Meaning: don't gauge the success of a date or a new connection by having a new text buddy or phone buddy. It creates this kind of ridiculous dynamic where two people feel closer and more comfortable with they are and, as such, both people are scared to say something so simple like: "What are you doing Friday?" And because texting and talking provides the illusion of a new, developing connection it very quickly replaces the steps required to explore a connection, becoming, alas, the whole of the connection.

    Mutual fear of rejection, in short, posing as connection while actually being a barrier.

    So, know what you want. If you're thing is you want a guy to always ask for a second date, then respond basically only to that, rather than getting into extended digital and fiberoptic pitter-patter. Or you can say "What are you up to Friday night?" being 100 percent fine if they dodge that in favor of more pitter-patter. Just means they ain't for you, and that they're are 98óor 28, or 8, or 108óothers out there who you'll click with better.

  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by limichelle
    I think first you need to work on your self esteem. It sounds like with all the dates youíre trying to fill a void. I think have fun with Ethan and Aidan and if something transpires from one great, just work on your own happiness because they canít be the only reason to feel accepted, neither can the other dates.

    I find things also always have a way of working themselves out in the dating world. Itís okay if you donít go on 100 dates. Itís okay if Ethan or Aidan donít work out. You need to tell yourself these things to take the pressure off.

    I would seek counseling as to have someone unbiased help you come up with ways to treasure the beautiful person that you are.

    Once you love yourself as cliche as this sounds then youíre more open to finding love.

    I have battled self esteem issues for as long as I can remember and with counseling I learned to find my own happiness. Once I found it I was more receptive to not putting up with much, weeding out the toxic people and I found my love.


    Lisa
    Thank you so much for responding.

    The reason I'm going on these dates is because I've neglected my dating life for many years. It was hard and scary and it hurt. It wasn't fun, and it never led to anything positive. I haven't had an actual boyfriend it about 5 years, only men who aren't actually interested in me and don't want to see me in person.

    I'm finally where I want to be in my career, I've gotten my education out of the way, my finances are in order, and I've been doing CrossFit for a year and I'm in the best physical shape of my life. I've found a nice church to go to, relations with my family are stable, and I have some nice new girlfriends. The only thing that's still a s*** show are relationships.

    You are correct, there is a void, and it is that I'd like to someday have a family. I realize that I had to put in a lot of effort to get results in all other areas of my life, so I felt like I need to give that same energy to relationships. I figured, just like sales, finding a relationship is a numbers game. If I sit down in front of 100 men in a condensed period of time, at least one will be a good fit for me. If that one doesn't work out, I can just try 100 more.

    Evan Marc Katz had a program called Love U that I wanted to attend, but it was $3000 and I didn't have much time to make a decision. It was to help aging women (usually senior women) find love and marriage. I'm 30 years old, but I met with him one-on-one and he felt that if he could help them, he could definitely help me. Enrollment closed until the end of the year, but he mentioned having a 5 man rotation at all times and dating as many people as possible, and I'm trying that until I can get into his program this fall.

    I have done a lot of counseling, about six years worth. I did domestic violence counseling for two years, I saw a Christian based therapist for a year, I did life coaching for 2 years, and I've recently been receiving counseling from a Christian couple. I'm not sure if I need something specialized, but other than domestic violence, counseling has not done a ton for me.

    I realize that the probability of Ethan or Aidan being the one for me are extremely unlikely as I am only about 17 dates into the process. I guess I just don't know how to behave in a dating situation, how to know if a man is interested in me, and how to show that I am interested in a man. I don't really know how to behave around men or in a relationship, and I don't know where to learn these skills outside of Evan Marc Katz' $3000 program.

    What type of counselor did you see to help you figure out who is toxic? Maybe I've been going to the wrong types of people.

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  6. #5
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    Counseling can be a hit and miss. I had a counselor and at the time I was allowing negative people in my life and draining my emotional energy. He told me that anybody that devalues you or impacts your life in any negative way to get rid of them as soon as possible.

    Itís not nescceerly keeping your guard up but being more cautious when approaching new situations with new people.

  7. #6
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I agree with limichelle.

    I mean, if the genuine goal is 100 dates then you wouldn't be particularly invested in Ethan or Aidan since they're just blockades to the 98 or so to go. But, of course, the pressure you're already putting on Ethan and Aidan is connected to a bigger pressure about Dating Mattering or Dating Being the Answer to...well, to what?

    It's just dating. The more you mean to yourself, per the cliche, the less it meansóand, oddly, the less it means the more space there is for it to go places. Because you're not playing Connection Chess but just connecting, or not, and that's all good.

    That said, you asked for specific advice so I'll give it. My feeling in general is: keep the passive communication to a minimal. Meaning: don't gauge the success of a date or a new connection by having a new text buddy or phone buddy. It creates this kind of ridiculous dynamic where two people feel closer and more comfortable with they are and, as such, both people are scared to say something so simple like: "What are you doing Friday?" And because texting and talking provides the illusion of a new, developing connection it very quickly replaces the steps required to explore a connection, becoming, alas, the whole of the connection.

    Mutual fear of rejection, in short, posing as connection while actually being a barrier.

    So, know what you want. If you're thing is you want a guy to always ask for a second date, then respond basically only to that, rather than getting into extended digital and fiberoptic pitter-patter. Or you can say "What are you up to Friday night?" being 100 percent fine if they dodge that in favor of more pitter-patter. Just means they ain't for you, and that they're are 98óor 28, or 8, or 108óothers out there who you'll click with better.
    This makes so much sense! I have the terrible habit of getting hung up in the texting game, and it never leads to real-life interaction. I always thought I would look desperate if I initiated seeing a man, and he would start behaving poorly and lose respect for me. I read a lot of dating articles and books, and they all say women should never initiate a second date, but if I use this as a tool to chase off men who really aren't interested, it may work for me!

    I always hear dating gurus say there are specific things women can do to run off the wrong types of men, and this may just be one of them. When I think about it, I'm not devaluing or making a fool of myself, I'm just trying to figure out who can and can't handle a real life connection.

  8. #7
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    What I'd say, reading your additional posts, is to stop reading the articles, ignore the gurus, and so on. Dating is not CrossFit. It's not (just) about reps. Nor is it a gold star for graduating from therapy. Go into it with too much of those ideas and you'll get less out of it, because the real juice, delight, and mystery is at the edges.

    My thing, for what it's worth, is that I just don't like texting and talking to strangers. I've done it plenty, of course, because it's so easy in this day and age. But it's boring, or got boring to me. It's basically the pixilated equivalent of one-night stands; both are "safe" stand-ins for intimacy that can leave you feeling pretty hollow pretty quickly.

    I feel for you, as a woman, because it's gotten super blurry out there. Can seem like everyone, dudes in particular, have forgotten that connection happens in 3D and that a touch of moxie is required to make that happen. People have no fear when it comes to shooting off selfies and getting into "deep chats" over text, but god forbid they, you know, see if you feel like checking out that new wine bar on Saturday.

    I just don't play that game, at all. For me that means I ask anyone I'm remotely interested in exchanging another word with if they'd like to check out that wine bar. I'd rather "waste" my time running out of things to say over the pinot than pretending we have oh so much to say over emoji. As a woman, you may not want to play that "alpha" roleóand that's cool. Might just mean learning to not get too caught up in the texting stuff: keep that cool, friendly but minimal, a little simmer on a distant burner that they can bring to a boil or not. If they ask you out again, great; if not, also great.

    Or you can be all "Hey, wanna check out that wine bar?" Same mentality. Feel it out. It's always a win-win, at least once you decide (as I long ago did) that texting and talking is already a loss. Doesn't matter if it's a supermodel with a Nobel prize in physics; if she just wants to play emoji volleyball with me it means she's not what I'm into.

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    Evan Marc Katz only says to have 5 guys in rotation so that you don't become hyper focused on one, or in this case 2, Ethan and Aidan. EMK's philosophy is to have fun with dating, don't put all your eggs in one basket, and just enjoy getting to know them, not worry so much if they like you.

    No where in EMK's millions of words he's written does he say that you should aim to date 100 men. I'm not sure where you got that number from.

    His point is, cast your net, but make sure you are keeping your own parameters open as well. In other words, if you are only going to date men >6' tall, maybe come down a few inches. Or be more flexible on age. Stuff like that. What that does is, it opens you up to more people, and the more people you date, the more chances you have of finding the One.

    If you only had met Ethan, you'd be hyper focusing on him, and only him, and every little thing he does. But by staying open to others, you can have a drink with Brad on Tuesday and Ben on Thursday, and you sort of forget that Ethan hasn't texted you for the last 2 hours. Then, if and when Ethan calls you for another date, you're not jumping all over it out of desperation and scarcity, but more out of enjoyment of life.

    EMK famously dated over 300 women before he met his own wife, who was outside any of his dating parameters. He only dated women who were his own religion, who were from Ivy League schools in the Northeast, who were at least 2-5 years younger, yet when he met his wife, she was none of that. And they are super happily married, with 2 great kids. So his point is, open yourself up, and you could be surprised.

    There, I just saved you $3000. (Or you could go, and have an amazing experience).

  10. #9
    Platinum Member figureitout23's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Badlover
    Thank you so much for responding.

    The reason I'm going on these dates is because I've neglected my dating life for many years. It was hard and scary and it hurt. It wasn't fun, and it never led to anything positive. I haven't had an actual boyfriend it about 5 years, only men who aren't actually interested in me and don't want to see me in person.

    I'm finally where I want to be in my career, I've gotten my education out of the way, my finances are in order, and I've been doing CrossFit for a year and I'm in the best physical shape of my life. I've found a nice church to go to, relations with my family are stable, and I have some nice new girlfriends. The only thing that's still a s*** show are relationships.

    You are correct, there is a void, and it is that I'd like to someday have a family. I realize that I had to put in a lot of effort to get results in all other areas of my life, so I felt like I need to give that same energy to relationships. I figured, just like sales, finding a relationship is a numbers game. If I sit down in front of 100 men in a condensed period of time, at least one will be a good fit for me. If that one doesn't work out, I can just try 100 more.

    Evan Marc Katz had a program called Love U that I wanted to attend, but it was $3000 and I didn't have much time to make a decision. It was to help aging women (usually senior women) find love and marriage. I'm 30 years old, but I met with him one-on-one and he felt that if he could help them, he could definitely help me. Enrollment closed until the end of the year, but he mentioned having a 5 man rotation at all times and dating as many people as possible, and I'm trying that until I can get into his program this fall.

    I have done a lot of counseling, about six years worth. I did domestic violence counseling for two years, I saw a Christian based therapist for a year, I did life coaching for 2 years, and I've recently been receiving counseling from a Christian couple. I'm not sure if I need something specialized, but other than domestic violence, counseling has not done a ton for me.

    I realize that the probability of Ethan or Aidan being the one for me are extremely unlikely as I am only about 17 dates into the process. I guess I just don't know how to behave in a dating situation, how to know if a man is interested in me, and how to show that I am interested in a man. I don't really know how to behave around men or in a relationship, and I don't know where to learn these skills outside of Evan Marc Katz' $3000 program.

    What type of counselor did you see to help you figure out who is toxic? Maybe I've been going to the wrong types of people.
    Originally Posted by limichelle
    Counseling can be a hit and miss. I had a counselor and at the time I was allowing negative people in my life and draining my emotional energy. He told me that anybody that devalues you or impacts your life in any negative way to get rid of them as soon as possible.

    Itís not nescceerly keeping your guard up but being more cautious when approaching new situations with new people.
    I agree counseling can be hit or miss. I think a counselor being on board with you going on 100 dates when you donít seem to know whether youíre coming or going emotionally goes into the miss category. I mean I donít know more about you tha the few paragraphs written and even I recognize this is counter productive. Like another poster said youíre void Dillon).

    Thereís an awesome poster here named batya, she untitized online dating to explains the non t of men she was meeting, I think the amount of men she met is close to your goal if not beyond it, she had very very very clear cut boundaries and intentions, she knew her end goal and how she was going to get there, if she said she had a goal of dating 100 men I wouldnít blink an eye.

    A girl kinda floundering and stumbling over her baggage... Iím cringing. If this is a goal you have, I say more power to you, after you get on solid ground, you arenít readh for this yet, not emotionally.

  11. #10
    Gold Member Gary Snyder's Avatar
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    Evan Marc Katz only says to have 5 guys in rotation so that you don't become hyper focused on one, or in this case 2, Ethan and Aidan. EMK's philosophy is to have fun with dating, don't put all your eggs in one basket, and just enjoy getting to know them, not worry so much if they like you.

    No where in EMK's millions of words he's written does he say that you should aim to date 100 men. I'm not sure where you got that number from.
    - 5 guys in rotation is a lot. Try 3. And it's probably more like 15 - 30 men you'll have to date before you find a boyfriend. It could be less, but there are a lot of undesirables on dating sites.



    Op, if one of those guys does not kiss you early on, say within 3 dates, you'll likely lose interest. At that point, I'd date other guys.

    It's great that you are a beautiful woman and can multi-date so many, and have so many choices. Good for you! As a man, I don't have the legs for it.

    That said, I did get pulled over by a lady cop once........I flashed her my legs, and she let me go! How cool is that!?

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