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Thread: Jealousy and immense self hatred over not being the "class clown"

  1. #11
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    Originally Posted by ilostmynewun
    Nothing about him is interesting. He has no hobbies or interests. He's just constantly firing out jokes. Also he studies a lot of useless things (to me) like make-up techniques, only so that it will give him more jokes to make around girls

    And why do you say I'm berating the girls? I feel self-hatred for not being able to connect with people as well as he does. Most of my hatred is directed INWARDS, to myself. The only problem I have with the girls is that they pay so much more attention and affection to him while they are often rude and inconsiderate to me.

    This doesn't mean I berate them. Again. It makes me berate MYSELF mostly, and it makes me feel inferior and unworthy
    Well, that is definitely the issue, you don't like yourself so how do you expect other people to like you? If these girls are rude and inconsiderate to you, that means they were never your real friends in the first place. Friends don't just dump you when someone new comes along. This guy should not be your concern. There will always be people around us who are funny, good-looking, successful, etc. We can't let that intimidate us and we need to carve out our own life. Let him have those girls and you can find other friends. Are you actually taking any advice you're getting here on board and if so then how are you planning to work on changing things? Just ruminating on this guy and those girls is not going to change anything. It'll just keep making you feel miserable.

  2. #12
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    Hey, I think I get it somewhat. I think you should go see a doctor like someone suggested, but I went through something similar growing up with a twin. It started when we were really little and the neighborhood kid preferred her and they eventually actively excluded me and picked on me. We're fraternal and very different. Babysitters, everyone would fawn all over her. She was just cuter, and smiley, and I tried to laugh like her but no dice. I played alone a lot and cried, my parents thought we were all hanging out together.

    Later in high school things got worse because she hated me, and we were forced to do everything together because my parents didn't want to have to drive us to separate sports. College, they made us share a car so I was forced to go to the one she picked despite wanting to go to a different school. She would scream at me in front of other people about how much she hated me. And she was more confident, cuter, more mature, so people who we had both been friends with cut me out and I was alone again. And adults started asking what was wrong with me, just to make it more fun! I hid from everyone as best I could.

    Anyway college was better because we didn't have the same classes. I actually won academic awards and I'm a good artist; two things she can't do. Having the space to be different people did wonders for me. Friends found me, after I stopped trying to follow people around to try to get invited places. Figured I was hopeless and accepted being alone, and then I was just myself, and somehow I had friends. I can't explain it and I really applaud you for actively inviting people out for coffee and trying to befriend them, because I still am bad at that at almost 40 and they have to come to me. But they do, and I'm very happy with my social life and happy with myself. My twin and I are even close now, which I attribute to strengths I have that I was able to develop while being away from her. And she lives in another state, doesn't hurt :).

    My advice is to let him be him, and you be you. There'll be people that prefer you. Book smart usually leads to a good job, which is attractive. Can you get out and find some groups or activities outside of school where he isn't there? Get a part time job? Sorry you went through abuse as a kid :(. I had a bit of that to deal with too. It gets better; you just need to get through it. Don't worry about psychotherapist predictions about that clown. They should be working on how you feel about yourself and challenging your negative self doubts instead. I hope it gets better!

  3. #13
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    Originally Posted by Tinydance
    Well, that is definitely the issue, you don't like yourself so how do you expect other people to like you? If these girls are rude and inconsiderate to you, that means they were never your real friends in the first place. Friends don't just dump you when someone new comes along. This guy should not be your concern. There will always be people around us who are funny, good-looking, successful, etc. We can't let that intimidate us and we need to carve out our own life. Let him have those girls and you can find other friends. Are you actually taking any advice you're getting here on board and if so then how are you planning to work on changing things? Just ruminating on this guy and those girls is not going to change anything. It'll just keep making you feel miserable.
    Thank you, you have been helping a lot :)

    I think I should make something clear. This guy isn't always funny. I actually think quite the opposite, and he does as well. He thinks 60% of his jokes fall flat, and it's true. The thing is, everyone knows him as the "clown guy". It's not the jokes themselves that are funny, it's his whole persona. Since he's very upbeat, say-what's-on-your-mind, clearly thinking of himself as a comedian, speaking a rushed, high-pitched voice when telling a joke, etc., he's seen as a comedian. Sometimes his jokes land, yea, but other times people just shrug or make a comment just to get in on the fun, even if the joke itself wasn't that funny. Other times people will laugh simply because the joke was so ridiculous and nonsensical that it's stupid.

    Here's an example. We went into another city (me, him, this group of girls, and a few other guys). A restaurant owner spotted us as tourists and approached us with "Hey, do you guys come from city X?". This guy loudly went "AHAHAH friend you tried" and walked away. And he thought that was so hilarious he repeated that story to the group of girls 3 times, and they all loved it. Meanwhile me and another guy approached the restaurant owner, actually talked to him, and he gave us a discount and free dessert. This is what I mean. It's not that he's funny, it's that his whole persona is "I'm a comedian", and that's what I think others consider funny about him. Sometimes he nails it, sometimes he doesn't, but since that's his character, people apparently find him funny regardless.

    Now, I need a female opinion on this if you don't mind :) like I said in the original post, my therapist insists people don't actually like this guy as a person. They (especially the girls) are only basically "using" him because he makes them laugh. So when that girl goes out with him for coffee, she doesn't go out with him because she's attracted to him, she goes out because she wants to forget her problems, and being around a comedian helps her relax and laugh a little. According to my therapist (though I can't prove this, obviously), the minute he tried to turn things serious and reveal his feelings for one of these girls, they would be taken aback. Her argument is that they do consider him a friend and kind of care about him, but they see him as a dancing monkey. They love to be around him and laugh and have fun, but they would never consider forming a deep connection with him.

    What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!

  4. #14
    Platinum Member DancingFool's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ilostmynewun
    Thank you, you have been helping a lot :)

    I think I should make something clear. This guy isn't always funny. I actually think quite the opposite, and he does as well. He thinks 60% of his jokes fall flat, and it's true. The thing is, everyone knows him as the "clown guy". It's not the jokes themselves that are funny, it's his whole persona. Since he's very upbeat, say-what's-on-your-mind, clearly thinking of himself as a comedian, speaking a rushed, high-pitched voice when telling a joke, etc., he's seen as a comedian. Sometimes his jokes land, yea, but other times people just shrug or make a comment just to get in on the fun, even if the joke itself wasn't that funny. Other times people will laugh simply because the joke was so ridiculous and nonsensical that it's stupid.

    Here's an example. We went into another city (me, him, this group of girls, and a few other guys). A restaurant owner spotted us as tourists and approached us with "Hey, do you guys come from city X?". This guy loudly went "AHAHAH friend you tried" and walked away. And he thought that was so hilarious he repeated that story to the group of girls 3 times, and they all loved it. Meanwhile me and another guy approached the restaurant owner, actually talked to him, and he gave us a discount and free dessert. This is what I mean. It's not that he's funny, it's that his whole persona is "I'm a comedian", and that's what I think others consider funny about him. Sometimes he nails it, sometimes he doesn't, but since that's his character, people apparently find him funny regardless.

    Now, I need a female opinion on this if you don't mind :) like I said in the original post, my therapist insists people don't actually like this guy as a person. They (especially the girls) are only basically "using" him because he makes them laugh. So when that girl goes out with him for coffee, she doesn't go out with him because she's attracted to him, she goes out because she wants to forget her problems, and being around a comedian helps her relax and laugh a little. According to my therapist (though I can't prove this, obviously), the minute he tried to turn things serious and reveal his feelings for one of these girls, they would be taken aback. Her argument is that they do consider him a friend and kind of care about him, but they see him as a dancing monkey. They love to be around him and laugh and have fun, but they would never consider forming a deep connection with him.

    What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!
    So this "comedian" guy is really just an aggressive jerk and contrary to what you think - he didn't and doesn't connect with people. You just gave a perfect example of failure to connect. Ironically, you and some other guy actually did connect with this person....and got rewarded for it. Open your eyes buddy. Your real problem is your perception of what connection looks like, aka loud, aggressive, obnoxious - you are wrong. That's not connection.

    Anyway, this guy is pretty toxic and yes, some people like that, but honestly, those aren't the kind of people you want to hang out with because they aren't going to be very nice people either.

    You'll feel connected with people when you stop hating yourself, stop trying to be someone else, aka loud obnoxious ahole, have the courage to be genuine, talk with people and more importantly listen to what others say, really hear them. Develop your own hobbies, interests and through that you'll meet others who are more like you and you'll connect and feel like you belong. Your friendships will be more genuine and lasting instead of this shallow pretend existence. As you can see, it's not satisfying. For others to like you, you have to like yourself and be comfortable with yourself. That means drop the myth that only extroverts and assorted ahole's pretending to be extroverts are fun or interesting. They aren't.

    Oh and your therapist is spot on.

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  6. #15
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Be yourself instead of trying to be him. You'll be a lot better at it. Develop your own game and don't worry about him. Focus on you.
    Originally Posted by ilostmynewun
    I'm sorry but this actively pissed me off. I am trying. I just can't do it. And if I try to be the extroverted clown it falls flat and people get annoyed with me, they don't find me funny at all

  7. #16
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    Why are you putting so much focus on him? Why can't you try to make friends outside of class? Have you checked out school clubs, or other clubs outside of school that would be of interest? Have you tried Meet Ups or volunteering.

    I just don't understand why you are making your entire world about this class. When I was in school, my friends were outside the college. Stop limiting yourself.

    The guy sounds like a jerk.

    As Billie said, you are an adult, so stop blaming your parents.

  8. #17
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    Just jumping in to thank everyone who has participated in the discussion so far, you have been a tremendous help :)

  9. #18
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    Originally Posted by ilostmynewun

    Now, I need a female opinion on this if you don't mind :) like I said in the original post, my therapist insists people don't actually like this guy as a person. They (especially the girls) are only basically "using" him because he makes them laugh. So when that girl goes out with him for coffee, she doesn't go out with him because she's attracted to him, she goes out because she wants to forget her problems, and being around a comedian helps her relax and laugh a little. According to my therapist (though I can't prove this, obviously), the minute he tried to turn things serious and reveal his feelings for one of these girls, they would be taken aback. Her argument is that they do consider him a friend and kind of care about him, but they see him as a dancing monkey. They love to be around him and laugh and have fun, but they would never consider forming a deep connection with him.

    What are your thoughts on this? Thanks!
    Either you have misinterpreted your therapist or you need a new one.

    Choices in friendship always come from a selfish place. Thatís normal.
    No one ever says Iím friends with or hang out with x because I make him/her happy etc
    Instead they say Iím friends with x because he/she has a great sense of humour or makes for great conversation or whatever , but the reason is always what they gain from the friendship not what they give.

    So, in one way your therapist is correct that these girls hang out with him for something they gain but that does not mean they donít like him. Nor does it mean they want to date him.

    Why are you hanging out with him though? Because you arenít gaining anything from him.
    And likewise why are you hanging out with these girls? Doesnít sound like you gain anything from them either?

    True friendships form when two people mutually gain something from each other.

    You choose your friends but you canít make people choose you.
    It happens naturally by being yourself and not trying to imitate someone you perceive to be ďpopularĒ

    But you can increase your chances of finding friendships by socialising in circles of like minded people via a sport , hobby or interest.

    So instead of trying to force friendships with these people , start looking elsewhere.

  10. #19
    Platinum Member Cope's Avatar
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    You need to stop focusing on other people and start focusing on loving yourself. Easier said then done, I know. I do find it odd for your therapist to give you these "predictions" as it clearly is just making you focus even more on others.

    You had a very hard childhood and it's ok to blame that, because it actually is the cause of most of what your going through. Instead of sticking to blame though, learn from it. Dig deep and tell the younger you what he needed to hear when your parents weren't there to support you. Your mother hit you when you got a bad grade? Tell the younger you that getting a bad grade is ok, your mom didn't know better and handled it horribly, it is not linked to your worth. Now you know a bad grade means nothing, comfort the younger you, give him the love he didn't receive.

    You are an interesting person and you will find people who will appreciate you for what you are, but you need to start appreciating yourself first. Write a list of your positive qualities. It's gonna be harder than you think. It can include anything, from intelligence to the way you treat animals; being handy, your interests, even the cool way you style your hair and so on. Imagine seeing them in another person. Wouldn't you want to hangout with them? Sure you would. Take care of yourself, keep your apartment clean and tidy, treat yourself, pamper yourself. Most importantly, ask your therapist how you can learn to love yourself, they'll definitely have more tips and great guidance.

    It doesn't matter if that "class clown" is fake and will eventually f* up his life or not. You're spending your energy on something meaningless when you can focus it on how awesome you are.

  11. #20
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    Originally Posted by Billie28
    Either you have misinterpreted your therapist or you need a new one.

    Choices in friendship always come from a selfish place. Thatís normal.
    No one ever says Iím friends with or hang out with x because I make him/her happy etc
    Instead they say Iím friends with x because he/she has a great sense of humour or makes for great conversation or whatever , but the reason is always what they gain from the friendship not what they give.

    So, in one way your therapist is correct that these girls hang out with him for something they gain but that does not mean they donít like him. Nor does it mean they want to date him.
    I don't agree with you 100%, I think her input is valuable. What she's asking is if these people really see him as a friend, or rather as a comedian.

    The minute he stops being funny, will they still hang around? Or are they only hanging around him because he is a clown, a comedian, and that's all he is? So if he ever tries to have a serious conversation, they back off? Doesn't seem that off-limits to me, I think it makes a lot of sense.

    There is a question to be made on whether or not this is good therapy. It seems very argumentative and not very clinically helpful, but it still makes sense.

    I also don't agree with your opinion on friendships. Let's say you are my classmate. I like you and hang out with you only because you let me cheat and you teach me and I have good grades because of you. According to you, this is just another plain old friendship. I don't agree. The minute you don't get me good grades, you are out of my life. What kind of friendship is that? There's an element of care in friendships, it's not just "Oh I like this person because they have this facet that does this for me".

    If you ask me about my close friends, I couldn't tell you what I gain for them in 1 sentence. They are supportive, they have interests, they ask for help but they help me too, they are cool to have around. I don't know. So much. But I literally can't think of any one of my close friendships and say "Oh this is what I'm gaining from the person".

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