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Thread: Girlfriend never includes me in decisions

  1. #21
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    Just to be clear, this vacay was initially planned to be just the two of you, a romantic getaway of sorts?

    And she just arbitrarily decided to invite her son, his friends, and her neighbor? Without asking you first?

    Good lordy, NO! No, no, no. Not on any level whatsoever.

    What I'm wondering though is why you need us to tell you that?

  2. #22
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    Originally Posted by Hurkumer
    We have been in couples counseling fairly regularly.
    In order for me to be a doormat, I would have to take the boots lying down. As I explained, I have never had a problem growing a spine in any relationship. When I think something is unhealthy or wrong or admits of general bullchittiness, I speak my mind.
    If I get to the point where I think she is never going to change some of her behaviors toward me, I will leave. And she knows that.
    Nothing I have said is an excuse for anything. One can appreciate the influence and even causal role that past traumas have on current behaviors without putting emotional blinders on. Her past isnt an excuse. She is an intelligent, successful woman that was emancipated as a minor and fought like hell to put herself through school and build her self a great career despite an almost complete lack of nurture and support growing up. This was all before most of the really bad stuff happened to her. Despite that, she has done some great things in her life and continues to do so. If I were making excuses from her past, I would have no way to explain how she is the lioness that she is.
    No matter how monumentally horrible her past was, I respect her far too much to turn any of it into an excuse that would undermine the grit and strength that has gotten her through ten times what Ive been through.

    Maybe this is one of the reasons that I am fighting like hell for a relationship that hasnt been easy. And shes hot.
    She still continues with the behavior. This is not an equal partnership and she does not respect you. She is a grown as woman. Stop using her past as an excuse.

    Nothing is going to change, here. I don't understand why anyone would stay in this dynamic!

    One should not have to "fight" for a relationship. And, staying with someone because she is "hot' says a lot about you. How shallow and sad.

    Lastly, just because you speak up, does not exclude you from being a doormat. She still gets away with a lot. She definitely wears the pants.

  3. #23
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hurkumer
    And shes hot.
    You seem very keen to remind us of this, which I think is telling.

    Past all the other stuffthe emotional and intellectual hijinks, the metabolized therapyspeak about how past trauma influences present behaviordo you think this is really what you're fighting for? To keep a relationship going with someone you find too hot to leave? And not just keep it going but, per itsallgrand's post, to kind of fast track it into nuclear family functionality? The seduction and intoxication not merely of "hot," but seeing if you can wrangle "hot" into something functional, something "warm"?

    No judgement, nor do I say that to negate her other admirable qualities or your sincere appreciation of them. But sometimes it's easier to just call it what it is, so you don't get too caught up in the window dressing.

    Sounds like you're kind of predisposed to put up with, and sympathize with, the very behavior that frustrates youto make it something to "work on" and "work through," to even find a vaguely masochistic pleasure in that work. Your mother, you said, displayed similar qualities. Deep conditioning, that. Stuff you've been "working on" your whole life. Now you have a proxyand a hot one at that.

    I've dabbled a bit myself in attaching onto some very hot, very dynamic women who frustrated me in the way one of my parents didnamely my father, a passive POS who abandoned me but who, being my father, I am hardwired to love and seek approval from. Hardwired, in ways, to equate "love" with "pain." Those relationships have been very hotgreat sex, lots of heat-building tension, endless opportunity for sympathy, empathy, and understanding, to say nothing of the seductive subconscious promise that if I could make this work there'd be some nebulous reward for my soul and spirit, a little salve to heal the forever wound made my father.

    But they've also been draining, unsustainable. In the end I want something that "works" rather than something to "work on" in the hope that it may some day work work. In the end I've opted to accept that forever wound as part of me, rather than something to treat through romance.

    That's me, of course, not you. The best advice I can give you is to accept that this is just how things are going to be with her, much the way this is how things were, or still are, with your mother. There will be micro-improvements. There will be regressions. There will be heat. There will be momentslike this camping tripwhere you feel brushed off, someone she is incapable of considering, because that's exactly what you are during such moments.

    But where some find comfort in just being considered, or who want to be "seen" as fully as they "see" their partner, I think you find comfort in the fight to be considered and seen, so even when you're frustrated remember that. Just as you like her "hotness" for the obvious reasons, and like her damage because it's familiar, you enjoy these moments when you have to put on the gloves a bit.

    I don't think that makes you a doormat, for the record. Whether you find this is something you can sustain and continue to find reward inwell, that's another question. But right now you do.

  4. #24
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    You seem very keen to remind us of this, which I think is telling.

    Past all the other stuffthe emotional and intellectual hijinks, the metabolized therapyspeak about how past trauma influences present behaviordo you think this is really what you're fighting for? To keep a relationship going with someone you find too hot to leave? And not just keep it going but, per itsallgrand's post, to kind of fast track it into nuclear family functionality? The seduction and intoxication not merely of "hot," but seeing if you can wrangle "hot" into something functional, something "warm"?

    No judgement, nor do I say that to negate her other admirable qualities or your sincere appreciation of them. But sometimes it's easier to just call it what it is, so you don't get too caught up in the window dressing.

    Sounds like you're kind of predisposed to put up with, and sympathize with, the very behavior that frustrates youto make it something to "work on" and "work through," to even find a vaguely masochistic pleasure in that work. Your mother, you said, displayed similar qualities. Deep conditioning, that. Stuff you've been "working on" your whole life. Now you have a proxyand a hot one at that.

    I've dabbled a bit myself in attaching onto some very hot, very dynamic women who frustrated me in the way one of my parents didnamely my father, a passive POS who abandoned me but who, being my father, I am hardwired to love and seek approval from. Hardwired, in ways, to equate "love" with "pain." Those relationships have been very hotgreat sex, lots of heat-building tension, endless opportunity for sympathy, empathy, and understanding, to say nothing of the seductive subconscious promise that if I could make this work there'd be some nebulous reward for my soul and spirit, a little salve to heal the forever wound made my father.

    But they've also been draining, unsustainable. In the end I want something that "works" rather than something to "work on" in the hope that it may some day work work. In the end I've opted to accept that forever wound as part of me, rather than something to treat through romance.

    That's me, of course, not you. The best advice I can give you is to accept that this is just how things are going to be with her, much the way this is how things were, or still are, with your mother. There will be micro-improvements. There will be regressions. There will be heat. There will be momentslike this camping tripwhere you feel brushed off, someone she is incapable of considering, because that's exactly what you are during such moments.

    But where some find comfort in just being considered, or who want to be "seen" as fully as they "see" their partner, I think you find comfort in the fight to be considered and seen, so even when you're frustrated remember that. Just as you like her "hotness" for the obvious reasons, and like her damage because it's familiar, you enjoy these moments when you have to put on the gloves a bit.

    I don't think that makes you a doormat, for the record. Whether you find this is something you can sustain and continue to find reward inwell, that's another question. But right now you do.
    I think he is a doormat. He has been allowing her crap for years, by sticking around- speaking up means nothing, if it is not followed by action. She does not respect him and continues with the bad behavior. He excuses by using her childhood, and also stays because she is "hot."
    Last edited by Hollyj; 05-25-2019 at 12:53 PM.

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  6. #25
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hollyj
    I think he is a doormat. He has been allowing her crap for years, by sticking around. She does not disrespect him and continues with the bad behavior. He excuses by using her childhood, and also stays because she is "hot."
    I think we're in agreement here on the big picture, just not in the definition of "doormat."

    He is not just "excusing" her past trauma, but he's drawn to it, compelled by it. All that is hot to him, just like the shape of her body.

    It's active, whereas a "doormat" is a more passive stance.

    Do I think it's healthy? No. But there's a difference between being "walked on" and choosing someone to walk all over you. He's too smart and aware not to realize he is actively making a choice.

  7. #26
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    Originally Posted by Hollyj

    ... and also stays because she is "hot."
    Yup, agree.

    Sorry OP, and jmo, but it would appear your brain is in your d***, instead of your head, unfortunately.

    Otherwise you'd just walk, or maybe not.

    Who knows but I do think her "hotness" is a big part of this.

  8. #27
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    Originally Posted by bluecastle
    I think we're in agreement here on the big picture, just not in the definition of "doormat."

    He is not just "excusing" her past trauma, but he's drawn to it, compelled by it. All that is hot to him, just like the shape of her body.

    It's active, whereas a "doormat" is a more passive stance.

    Do I think it's healthy? No. But there's a difference between being "walked on" and choosing someone to walk all over you. He's too smart and aware not to realize he is actively making a choice.
    Someone who sticks arounds and allows themselves to be disrespected is a doormat-(my thinking). Clearly, therapy and his speaking out has made no difference. Bottom line, he is allowing a lot of bad behavior.

  9. #28
    Platinum Member ThatwasThen's Avatar
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    Some say run the hell away. If I do, I am running from a person who is wonderful, cares deeply about others, hasnt had a break in life, and is effed up beyond belief. I was aware of all of this from the very beginning and asked myself what kind of person I would be if I deemed her undeserving of a chance at a good relationship and genuine love. And shes hot. So here I am.
    So why are you here then, I must ask? She isn't going to change, you know who she is, you knew who she was before you committed to her the way you have. The only thing left to do is for YOU to learn how to actually accept all the things you know about her and instead of trying to change her while failing at it, you adjust your inner narrative to not want any control in any decision making. Its either that, or you feel that gnawing mind fk that not being in control about anything, ad nauseum.

    I suggest you get personal therapy to help you to learn to accept the hot mess that she can be while she deflects her own issues back at you because you have zero chance of changing her but you CAN change you and how you react to not being heard.

  10. #29
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    Originally Posted by ThatwasThen
    So why are you here then, I must ask? She isn't going to change, you know who she is, you knew who she was before you committed to her the way you have. The only thing left to do is for YOU to learn how to actually accept all the things you know about her and instead of trying to change her while failing at it, you adjust your inner narrative to not want any control in any decision making. Its either that, or you feel the gnawing mind fk that not being in control about anything, ad nauseum.

    I suggest you get personal therapy to help you to learn to accept the hot mess that she can be because you have zero chance of changing her but you CAN change you and how you react to not being heard.
    Deleted.......

  11. #30
    Platinum Member smackie9's Avatar
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    Keep your peace: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

    You can't change her so just accept it and let it go. Maybe that is what you need to do..."change" you, not her.

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