I, 27/M, went on a few dates with a woman, 24/F, and need some advice/support!

Hello!

I met this girl online - she was out of a short relationship (it ended long before it did because he had decided to pull the "slow fade") that somewhat affected her emotional state because the man ghosted her, essentially. Since the start of April, we'd been on three dates. Since I don't stay in the picture without making my romantic intentions clear, we made out at the end of the first date. On the second date, we had dinner and the make-out session was even friskier. The third date was even more hopeful: she'd planned a trip to visit family members in another city for 10 days and specifically stated that she wanted to see me before she left. A lot of good signs: at one point, when I joked about some friends, she retorted that me and her weren't just friends. She was asking "naughty" questions, and the communication between us has been pretty energetic since the first day. Ends with an intense make-out session once again. Mind you, these 3 dates were spread out over the course of 1 month. She was busy with her exams and work at one point, confirmed, but got in touch as soon as they were done. When she came back from the trip, she messaged me with a smile saying that she was back. When I mentioned the possibility of us hanging out again, she said that while she was busy the week after she was back, she'd message me when she's free. As soon as this last Sunday hit, we hung out. All in all, there was a distance of \~20 days between our last two dates - this is including the trip. On the last date, we grabbed coffee and went for a hike at the park - this was her idea. We weren't interacting differently. At the end of the hike, she tells me that she needs to talk about something. Obviously, the romantic setup kind of got my hopes up. She'd alluded on previous dates that she was traditional and didn't do casual stuff per se without a long term outlook. In my case, the mix of comfort and attraction probably took over. Keep this in mind that we're both from cultures in which sex is heavily stigmatized, so I had to take that at face value given that it's fairly common behaviour with people where we're from.

However, she told me that she didn't want to be in a relationship right now. She said that she has a lot on her plate right now, with some "verified" personal/familial issues, and at one point had tears rolling down her cheeks - nothing too dramatic, but something about being hurt before. Now, before this seems like a convenient ploy to cut me out, I must comment that she has been acting differently on social media - even where I don't have her added. I stalked (I know, I know) and found out. From what she told me, she had a falling out with a friend, a family member is getting surgery, and she blew the last semester in school because of her last relationship. All of these are verified, if that makes it any better. On the other hand, I feel like she's going through a "reinventing" phase and has taken up a new hobby that she's pretty seriously pursuing - which is fairly common after a breakup, having been through it myself. She mentioned something about things "accumulating." I took it like a champ, but a part of me is hurt. While I never buy the "busy" excuse, one can wilfully preoccupy oneself to deal with their emotions - it seems transparent in her case, and I must give her credit for being fairly forthright and straightforward with most of it. One thing she's been above all is consistent. I told her that I was going to ask her to be exclusive today if she hadn't "rejected" me - which I had planned. My best friend, who I discussed this with earlier, feels that the ex is back in some capacity - maybe he's moved on, and it has sparked mixed emotions in her. We didn't have any decisive conclusions about our setup, but she asked for a hug when I dropped her off this time. Things weren't any more awkward on the hike back either, and we were jovial the whole time. I sent her a text saying, in short, that I loved getting to know her and that she should feel free to reach out if she changes her mind. I also left the ball of hanging out "as friends" in her court, wishing her good luck. She sent a text today saying that she loved to got to know me too, and that I was very nice and kind, wishing me nothing but the best - much in the spirit of my last text. I grabbed my nuts and replied with some honesty, telling her that I had different expectations and if she wants something long-term, I'd love to give it a shot since we clicked so well. I only did this in case my intentions seemed too... "f*ckboy" - especially since I hadn't used any committal language and the fact that I get mistaken for a womanizer because I'm somewhat attractive.

Now, some facts I can pull from this situation are:

1) She is not seeing or talking to anybody else and wasn't this whole time. She confirmed it when I brought up exclusivity. Most of us don't date like that either, fortunately.

2) I didn't bring up the ex, but it seems like he's a thorn in her side right now. Maybe he's back, maybe he's bread-crumbing, or maybe he's moved on and it's hurting her. This is my best friend's theory, and it kinda makes sense to me. I've been with enough women to know that attraction just doesn't run out like that this early on. It could, but it's rare. The last woman to ghost me actually reached out and apologized stating that her anxiety compelled her to bail. On the inside, I had known that it wasn't me. It's worth mentioning because I know how negative emotions can eat away at positive ones.

3) Her dating profile was taken down recently so she probably deleted the account, consistent with her not wanting to date any more for now or not having any pursuits on that front - she wasn't using it while we dated casually these past few weeks, but we weren't anywhere "solid" that would warrant a full deletion and she probably came back to delete it after her last conversation with me - either that or she unmatched me, or met someone else. The latter seems much, much more unlikely, and it's not just my denial here. The people I've discussed this with are getting this "vibe" that she's being sincere. She has talked about cutting off social media, and she's already made some fairly drastic changes to her profiles like I discussed in the paragraphs above. None of the changes are too positive either, though her story updates range from pointless to hopeful to funny. She uses Instagram to interact with her girl group for the most part too.

4) Speaking of social media, her last post was a fairly angry "ventful" status in her own language, which my phone promptly translated, that does allude to some sort of drama in her life. It seems like it's coming from a few of her friends, like I mentioned above. Her sign-ins have decreased in frequency too, and she has started posting at odd times. NOW, I must add that I don't interact with her much on social media and our texting frequency isn't high at all - none of these changes/updates seem to have to do with me, since I give her a lot of space. It'd make sense if I was commenting or DM'ing.

5) She has mentioned that she prefers serious and long-term since day one, and doesn't like casual/FWB stuff. A lot of the stuff happened as a result of me being the rebound plus some hope for the future that is now being re-evaluated. Now, in my case, do you think that she just doesn't have the headspace for a relationship at the moment?

With my last text, I have made my intentions clear and have decided to give her space for the foreseeable future. Albeit with a text every two weeks or something to catch up casually. I must admit that I'm typing all of this with a little rock on my heart because this woman was very direct, attractive, down-to-earth, and sincere - we were clicking very, very well too. I also feel like 20 days without someone - being on a trip, and then landing to drama - is enough time to second guess your approach, which is what I feel like I became a casualty of. Not to sound like a cocky jerk, but I'm attractive and respected, so it honestly isn't reflecting on me. If the ex came back in the picture, I can see why one would have mixed feelings. I must also concede that a part of me still wants her, though it'll fade with time. Part of me typing this is venting, the other part is just looking to explore options. For someone who wants to - hopefully - be there to pick it back up with her, what do you suggest I do? When I Googled things like "rejected after 4 dates" or something, it's always a story about some guy who didn't make his intentions clear and got rejected while making a move - it literally doesn't apply here considering that physicality was a part of the equation since day 1. Has anybody been in this situation before? Do you think it is wise to not reach out at all, reach out every 2 weeks, or do you think it's better to stay in the picture in some capacity with her? Seeing as we've had great physicality and chemistry together, I feel like I'd have a leg up compared to everybody else if, say, her feelings settle in a few weeks. Basically, has anybody recovered after being rejected by a woman like this? I'd love a little discussion to feel better about it all! My wisdom tells me to back off entirely and leave the ball in her court for most things, but also send a message every 2-3 weeks to casually check up on her. What do you think? Sorry for making my post this long!

You handled everything very well.

The bottom line: she is not over her ex. She needs time to process the break up.

You do NOTHING! Do not "casually check in on her" I would find that really annoying. Also, do not try to be her friend, as that is where you will stay. She may reach out in time. Move on with your life.

My wisdom tells me to back off entirely

This, and this only. No casually checking in, no planning and plotting, no nothing. That's just trying to manipulate the outcome so the story becomes the story you want, rather than the story that's actually happening—that has happened, really, and come to an end.

Sorry to deduce your novel to that, but real talk? This is all clear as day: You had a few good dates, got your hopes up, but it turned out she's not feeling things. Why not? Who cares?! You're doing a psychological deep dive on someone you don't know. You've been on three romantic dates, had some kissy kissy time, and on date number four she told you where she was at in no uncertain language: not interested in a relationship, a bit of a hot mess in life, end scene.

Me, in your shoes? That's when I'd spend two minutes to a day being bummed out and then I'd be back on the apps, back into the world, so I could meet someone who is not only cool and hot, but who is down for what I'm down for. And I've been in those shoes—plenty. It's what dating is. It's all dating is. Some hits, some misses, some hits that turn to misses, and so on.

I hope I don't sound harsh. Honestly, it sounds like she did you a favor—if you're willing to just accept it. I think some part of you is attracted to the "damage" at the edges of it all, as into "her" as you're into the idea of being the thing that snaps someone out of a funk by patiently understanding the nuances of the funk. Yawn. That's therapy, not romance. Ego, not heart. A math problem in lieu of a connection. Playing Freud to her social media posts isn't going to get you any closer to what you hoped for, you know?

Here's the thing that happens when you're this eager: it shows. It always shows. And eagerness is the opposite of confidence, which is what people, men and women, are attracted to. The confident person, in this case, just walks on—confident there is better to be had. Does she come around? Does she vanish? Both outcomes are equally fine, and neither deserve much thought, energy, or preemptive planning. Let it simmer, live your life.

You've handled this well. Now keep handling it well by just letting it go.

I think your ego is terribly bruised and nothing else. You certainly don't lack in self-confidence and that's good to hear. I'm glad you have a healthy and positive self-image. Keep it up. She is not the last woman on earth and she certainly won't be the last to be deserving of your time.

You thought well of this person so not having that 100% reciprocated or your plans fall through is disappointing. There's nothing unusual there. What you seem to be having a tough time with is the rejection because you've struggled and referenced your past where someone has mentioned it's not you, it's them. Second, you specifically referenced in your last paragraph about having a leg up above everyone else! This is screaming ego.

Collect yourself and know that there are plenty of other matches and partners out there for you. This just didn't work out the way you planned. Overanalyzing this and running amuck thinking that you may come out in the running when someone doesn't even want to date you anymore is not healthy. Trying to read minds and crystal balls about what someone really feels or what they're really thinking is also not healthy. Let it go. You'll be just fine.

Thank you. That's what I was thinking of. While I'm on friendly terms, I'm not planning on being a friend or anything. There'd have to be some physicality for me to be secure in it. I've got plenty of friends already, fortunately.

I think that what concerns me is that you could not simply accept that she didn't want to continue with you but had to "verify" everything

and stalk her social media to see what was true/what wasn't - was it the ex? Was it her family??

i think that you got overly invested with her by getting physical right away - if someone could only see me 3 times in a month - i would consider they were not very available and i would keep meeting others for coffee meets etc until i figured out if this person really was interested in moving forward.

She isn't over her ex, OP. It's really nothing complicated, even though it sucks.

She was attracted to you physically, sure. And she clearly enjoyed your personality. But she misses her ex-boyfriend. There is really nothing you can do about that, since it has nothing to do with you. Her heart and mind are still with him and she realizes she can't be with anyone else at this time. As such, plotting ways to stick around or build chemistry is a waste of your time. This one is out of your hands. You will hear from her if she has a change of heart. But for now, respect her desire to not take this further and don't contact her.

You do seem a bit over-invested, though, if I'm being honest. She isn't someone you've known very long and you seem to be struggling a lot with the idea that she has rejected you. I get that hurts, but it would be better next time not to get too attached to the outcome too early on.

@bluecastle:

I don't think I'm attracted to her "damage." Been there, done that. The dates were never much about her, just us bonding. Nothing of that "she vents, I listen" sort. She's a fairly stand-up girl for the most part.

The point about eagerness is obviously true, BUT I must point out that we don't text much. The only way the eagerness shows is that I ask her to hang out whenever she's "back." I do, however, leave the ball in her court mostly. "Let's hang out soon!" -> "I'm busy this week but I'll reach out when I'm free!" -> she reaches out, say, 6 days later on Friday. Obviously, to retain some momentum, I'll probably send a photo or video once in a while, but it's not a regular thing. Watch her Snapchat stories, but I do that with everyone. I replied to one when she was on that trip. I'm not sure if the initiative can be seen as eagerness when it comes to meeting up, but considering that she's the one always texting to hang out on the actual days she's free despite my "let's hang out soon" texts shows some initiative on her part too. I think we've all been in situations where it was a dead-end "hey, let's hang out soon" and it goes nowhere.

@abitbroken:

I'm overly analytical when it comes to everything, just my nature. The verification is mostly for this thread because I need to tell the people that I confirmed some of it to be true and that it's not like we're making excuses. I'm not invested because of the physicality, but it was necessary to give it direction. I don't have a problem with just being friends with women, but this one isn't it and it has to be defined clearly at the start, IMO.

@Rose Mosse: The ego is a little bruised, but it's more the rollercoaster of mixed signals than that. I have a leg up over everybody else because I went for it, there was mutual attraction, and the plain fact that I'm sort of a "go-getter" in these situations where a lot of people would foot. In this situation, it backfired but I've also been the guy in the past who spent time in the picture without making his intentions clear and that hurt a lot! I WILL be fine; I've been through much worse.

I don't see where anything you did "backfired". You were both figuring things out. You figured you were ready to become exclusive. She figured she was not ready for a relationship and wants to throw you back so you aren't waiting for her to figure stuff out.

You figured out different things, but it was still a worthwhile interaction. That's life.

@MissCanuck:

She doesn't want to sever ties completely from what I see, so there is that avenue. Plus, we have each other on social media. Of course, we won't be seeing each other if she wants it under the guise of "just friends." I must also point out that it's not like I give her a lot of attention or have lengthy back-and-forths about her baggage. So any satisfaction derived from hanging out purely has to do with how well our dynamic is, not being an emotional dumping ground or anything. Looking at her posts, she's handling it well BUT I'm sure it bothers her when she's alone and it's mostly distractions. It's not rejection, it's what happened around it.

I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning, but in my last text to her, I said that I expected something different and that I wanted something long-term, and that we could give that a shot if she was up for it because I felt it at her end too. Now, it might be "blowing it" but I had to make sure that there were no misunderstandings about my intentions. Now, of course, that might solidify me as an "option" but it also keeps me in the picture for when she's done dealing with the baggage. That is IF I'm single by then.

I get the feeling—just to broaden this a bit, since you clearly enjoy analysis—that one of your general priorities in dating right now is proving yourself to be a standup guy rather than the womanizer you've been mistaken for.

And that is the eagerness I'm really talking about—the eagerness to be seen as "good" and "intentional," rather than a "fu*kboy" with some good game and some genetic gifts.

I think what appealed about her—aside from her looks, personality, and the fact that she was down to make out—was that she seemed to be someone who could "get" this side of you, or maybe someone you could "test" this side out on. And I think what you're now mourning was the opportunity to be that guy—the good guy.

I mean, asking someone to be exclusive after three dates? Telling someone after they say they're not ready for a relationship that you had planned to have that talk? All of that sounds less like responding to a connection with an actual person, than using a person to act out and realize something preexisting in yourself—something aspirational that's still a little vague, but would become "real" and concrete with another.

All good. It's all a journey—connecting and disconnecting and almost connecting and, in the process, finding a little bit more of ourselves.

Per abitbroken's post, I would chill a bit with becoming a social media sleuth in the future. It's a hall of mirrors, as you're smart enough to know, and all it does is magnify ideas about people that may not exist, and make people bigger and more complicated than they really are or need to be.

When I read stories like this, I think of my own experience.

Dated a guy for a couple months. I got the `I am just not feelin' it' phone call. He was fresh out of a relationship and not ready on any level.

I didn't contact him or remind him that I still existed. I got busy with my life. About a month later he called. I can't lie, I was thrilled. But there was this little nagging voice inside me I wouldn't listen to. He insisted that his feelings grew in my absence? . hmmmm?

2 months back into seeing each other again, that little voice I stuffed became loud and clear. "If he really cared, at least to the level that I needed him to for me to continue, he would have never risked losing me to begin with " I said out loud or to anyone else listening in the grocery store parking lot, while slamming close the trunk of my car.

The thrill of being chosen (again) after being discarded was gone. I ended it. He didn't fight for it. End of story.

Ill never know and don't really care, but I think he might have gone back to the ex in the interim and that in turn made me the back up plan. Just a hunch.

OP, you've been on like 3 dates with this girl, and known her for like a month. In your first sentence, you basically answered your own question. Keep taking your own advice and stay away. She's not over her ex.

@saluk: Yeah, not to be hung up, but I feel like we could reconnect once this hump is over.

@bluecastle: While at some level I agree, I feel like that's a bit too deep, haha. She's nice, has her heart in the right place about a lot of things, and has the right mix of traditional and forward enough for me to enjoy it a lot. We've connected very well, but I can see why she'd pull the plug at the moment. While I realize that some of it IS me, it's more about my desire than wanting to see myself reflect back in a puddle of my relationship with her.

In my case, it's a bit different. First of all, I realize how feelings are and how they can change. I also don't have an ego when it comes to exes - if she gets back with him, cool, but I doubt she will, given how badly it ended. It's okay to not be ready for a relationship. She didn't do it in that manner either, and I DO think that your ex was being unreasonable pulling that a few months into it. That's a bit too long unless the last relationship was deeper than I think. I doubt he was benching you for his ex either, he legitimately could have planned for it to work until his heart got in the way. So, I wouldn't say that he "discarded" you - feelings are complicated, after all. While I don't plan on waiting hung up for months, I am wishful that the family/personal issues settle for her in a bit and we reconnect like we did. For some people, they heal. She seems like she is, and it might take a little while. Others stay hung up on someone for years, all the while half-assedly connecting with people along the way but getting strung along by their ex - I know a real life example of this too.

@WithLove: Oh I am staying away for now. If we reconnect, we reconnect. If not, we don't. I'd love to get back to see where we're both at in a few months or so, of course. I posted here because I wanted to see if a similar situation had "worked out" for someone else. I have a few real life examples, but a discussion with strangers is better because I want to explore it in depth.

@saluk: Yeah, not to be hung up, but I feel like we could reconnect once this hump is over.

 

@bluecastle: While at some level I agree, I feel like that's a bit too deep, haha. She's nice, has her heart in the right place about a lot of things, and has the right mix of traditional and forward enough for me to enjoy it a lot. We've connected very well, but I can see why she'd pull the plug at the moment. While I realize that some of it IS me, it's more about my desire than wanting to see myself reflect back in a puddle of my relationship with her.

This "hump" is her figuring out whether or not she is ready to date and what kind of person she will want that to be. It's not about you. It seems a bit condescending to me for you to essentially say that you know her better than she knows herself if you are already predicting what she will learn at the end of her journey on her own.

You hope she comes back, because you clearly have strong feelings toward her. If you really love her you need to consider that she is going to learn what she is going to learn. She could meet someone tomorrow and realize that it wasn't her ex that kept her from fully falling for you, but the fact that you just weren't right for her.

Been there. Life is damn easier when you only have to worry about what you are going to do without trying to predict what others are going to do. It's easier to walk through pain than to try to shortcut your way to not feeling it anymore, trust me. This social media stalking is doing you no favors. What would you get out of "figuring her out" anyway? You can't make any decisions for her.

@saluk: I used the word "could" so I like to think that I'm not being too presumptuous! A baseline of attraction and chemistry that allows a woman to take initiative despite facing the circumstances she's facing might be enough for us to reconnect after the hump. If not, it's cool. My dependent ex left me for another dude when I was in love with her, I got over it in 6 months and this pales in comparison. I'm confused because of some mixed signals that she definitely sent, which I'll type out if it comes down to it. I guess I'm being morose over the apparent finality of her decision and have some hope about it changing somewhere down the road. Of course, she can meet someone new and so can I. Besides, I don't think what a person wants or is attracted to changes that drastically - even after my breakup. Of course, you probably don't want to date the same type of person after a nasty heartbreak, but I've also come to realize that people are similar for the most part. I can take the worst person I know and compare him to the best person I know and the differences, while stark in practice, are minuscule as "traits" if that makes any sense. For the most part, I have a solid reputation in multiple circles that is a result of possessing, hopefully, some desirable traits - let's hope that these will suffice!

You're right about that, ultimately, it COULD be me. However, having been in similar circumstances, I know even Angelina Jolie wouldn't have been able to pull me out of it. When the patch ended, however, the emotions tapered. Also, I'm sure I don't love her! I can see someone like that with me and I'm attracted to her - that's mostly it!