How men invest in potential partners versus friends

So, this is my first post and I wasn't sure exactly where to put it. I'll try to keep this brief, as I'd prefer not to divulge too many details, but at the same time, I need some answers.

So my guy friend and I have been friends for many years. We had a brief romantic period, ended because of external factors in my life, then worked through a period of time to becoming good friends again. We are very close. Always have been since we've known each other. We still hang out and do things together. We talk almost every day. He is very close to my kids, also.

The thing is, I didn't want to end the romantic portion of our relationship. He knew that. And while I understood the necessity of ending it based on the circumstances, those external factors are now gone.

Sometimes he says and does things that make me feel like he still has romantic feelings for me, but I am not sure if that is real or if I am seeing what I want to see.

That being said, I'd like to know from some men, what kinds of things are you likely to do for a woman you are romantically interested in (assume you don't want to risk the friendship and that is why you haven't said anything this time) that differ from things you would do for a good female friend. For instance, how invested would you let yourself become in her life and the lives of her children if you were nothing more than a platonic friend? Especially if you knew she didn't want to end the relationship before and she had all but shouted at you that she was still interested. What things would you AVOID doing in order to prevent sending the wrong signal?

Yes, I know I could be an adult and ask him. But right now, I am not prepared to risk losing our friendship by making things awkward if I am misreading the situation.

I also would like to hear from women who have maybe been where I am...how did you discern his true feelings? did you risk it? Do you regret it?

Thanks.

I think you're seeing what you want to see.

If he were the serious type regarding reverting to his previous romantic feelings for you, he would tell you clearly without having to play guessing games on your part.

Some men are only words. They'll say and do things without romantic commitment. Talk is cheap. Remember that.

Since he's currently comfortable being friends and close to your kids, consider him a friend. Give it time. Give him time. If he eventually professes his sincere, romantic love for you, then deal with it then. For the time being, accept that he's only willing to be a friend and nothing more.

What he would AVOID would be taking it to the next level with obvious romantic actions as a boyfriend would and going overboard with his actions to the point of going beyond friendship.

I wouldn't have high hopes nor expectations from him. Go with the flow and keep it easy. If you expect and he won't deliver for you regarding a romantic boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, you'll become sorely disappointed. Don't set yourself up for disappointment. Accept the reality of the current situation and see how he'll be in the coming weeks and months. He'll either only want to remain friends with you or develop romantic feelings for you over time. Be patient yet realistic, too.

The first items I might look at would be his dating history and if he is currently seeing anyone. Obviously if he's attached this is off the table. You shouldn't be associating with each other in such a close friendship if either of you are in committed relationships or seeing other people. Most people don't react well to duplicity or duplicitous behaviours or actions and they don't bode well for either party.

I am only speaking for myself (not other women) but I wouldn't be able to remain friends with a man like that if I had feelings for him. It would be in the way and I'm not one to live in a cycle of unfulfillment or keep re-living a state of disenchantment like a broken record or in a state of perpetual limbo. Friendship would not be enough for me and I would need more.

Second, you should haven't to discern any man's feelings. That's my belief. He should be open and loving and available enough to make that known without you having to play Inspector Gadget or Sherlock Holmes. Just as he should love and honour you so should your energies be spent the same way.

I'd encourage you to move on from any idea of dating this man or lose the friendship that's holding you back from living your life in a more fulfilled way. I don't feel that you should have to ask him whether he's interested in you at all. Simply stop playing this game completely and don't look back. If he's not treating you the way a man should treat a woman in a fulfilling and committed (safe and loving) relationship, this is not the right man for you, period. Stop looking. Stop sleuthing and you don't need to ask him any more questions.

So I started listing some things I would do or wouldn't do depending on the nature of my relationship with a hypothetical woman and for everything thing I listed, I could think of so many exceptions. So I simply hit Ctrl + A, then my backspace button.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I will say that until you sit down and talk with the guy (or are willing to wait things out like Cherylyn suggests - not a bad suggestion considered you won't talk to him), you're never going to have any real answers.

I will clarify that you should only remain friends IF and once again, IF you're comfortable at stopping at friendship only. If you expect more than friendship and if a romantic commitment will never be forthcoming, you should move on without him. I don't want to be misconstrued. That's what I meant regarding your patience and being realistic about this situation. Some people are fine with just friendship whereas others, it is not good enough and they want more. If you want more and he has no intentions of a romantic commitment whatsoever, then you're really wasting your time wishing for what will never be. That is what I meant!

I understand there are always exceptions. I'd still like to see your lists. :)

Also, neither of us have dated since our romantic engagement together. And that was over a year ago. So we are not engaging in a super close/potentially inappropriate relationship outside of other relationships.

I appreciate everyone's insight.

Being friends with an ex is tricky. How involved is he with your kids? Are either of you still married/living with someone?

We had a brief romantic period, ended because of external factors in my life, then worked through a period of time to becoming good friends again.

how invested would you let yourself become in her life and the lives of her children if you were nothing more than a platonic friend?

I've been in your shoes. We were friends and fairly close (and getting closer) and I just couldn't decide if he liked me platonically or had a romantic interest. I think what finally proved that he was interested was, we were watching a TV show and were sitting next to each other, and I let me knee rest against his leg, which made him raise his arm and rest it on my knee. Platonic friends don't really touch like that.

I think if he's making time to be around you, exclusively, with your kids, more than any other friendship, then he's probably interested.

I knew when he asked me if I wanted to get back together. We were exes, we met after several years for a platonic catch up dinner and sparks flew. He asked to see me the next week -again platonic. Nothing said but I was hoping! Our next time together wasn't for two weeks -he was busy plus I think busy thinking about how/whether to proceed. If he hadn't said anything that night I might have said something because of the circumstances -I knew he was leaving town to go back to where he was then living in about a month and I might have sort of broached the subject of "what are your intentions". But he beat me to the punch. And that was how I knew -not because of signs because of words backed up with actions. We've now been together again almost 14 years, married for 10.

Being friends with an ex is tricky. How involved is he with your kids? Are either of you still married/living with someone?

Neither of us are married nor living with anyone. And haven't been for awhile now. He is very involved with my children. I hesitate to put details out into a publicly available forum, but I'll add this... I have many male friends. None of them interact with me the way he does, NOR do any of them take the same level of interest in my children that he does. And some of them have been my friends my entire life.

I've been in your shoes. We were friends and fairly close (and getting closer) and I just couldn't decide if he liked me platonically or had a romantic interest. I think what finally proved that he was interested was, we were watching a TV show and were sitting next to each other, and I let me knee rest against his leg, which made him raise his arm and rest it on my knee. Platonic friends don't really touch like that.

 

I think if he's making time to be around you, exclusively, with your kids, more than any other friendship, then he's probably interested.

Thank you. I think the biggest factor for me in thinking he is still interested, beyond the way we talk and interact, is the sheer amount of time invested. I always ask myself, though, is he really just that good of a friend? Does he just care for a friend that much? Maybe so, but as I stated in another reply, of my many male friends, none of them give me the time or attention that he does.

What about his other friendships? Does he invest as much time with those as he does with yours?

Not that I am aware of. I obviously don't know everything he does all the time, but of our mutual friends, he really doesn't spend a lot of "alone" time with them. They may grab lunch here and there, or do random things, like normal, but I don't think there is a consistency among them. And if we are all together for a group outing or the like, he gravitates to me. That could be sheer comfort level, but again, I can argue everything he does on both sides. Because I am trying not to read too much into it, I tend to under read sometimes, too, I think. I play devil's advocate with myself and get nowhere fast. :)

Do you want there to be something more than platonic feelings?

The difference between friendship and romantic relationship is the romantic part, aka sex. A guy who is interested in more, will make more physical advances. I don't mean necessarily ask to sleep with you and nothing crude like groping, but he can't quite keep his hands to himself either. Granted, it's a bit hard to describe in words, because some people are just touchy feely anyway, but still, there is a difference between just a touchy feely huggy person and the way a man will touch you when he desires you in a non platonic way.

That said, if a guy isn't asking to date you, he isn't interested in dating you. Harsh and yet simple and straightforward. It doesn't matter why or what excuse you give him or he gives you, including the "I don't want to ruin our friendship". It's just a very nice, polite rejection. It really just translates into "I don't feel what I need to feel to become romantically involved with you....or....I don't see you as the right mate for me for the long run so I'd rather just stay friends with you."

In your particular case, since you say that he knows that you want more.....then it's not a matter of him being shy or not wanting to ruin some friendship, it's that you dated, it didn't work out and he isn't interested in going there again. You've been placed in a friend zone. If you have to wonder and guess despite giving him the green light to proceed, he isn't going there because he isn't interested. When a man is truly interested, you will never have to guess how he feels. It's that simple.

I'll just echo another poster that I wouldn't hang around in this kind of a situation for long, because ultimately it's highly unsatisfying, creates unnecessary drama in your life, and stops you from moving on and dating and getting involved in a happy, fulfilling relationship with someone else. Tell him that you want more and if you can't have more, you really do need to end this quasi-relationship situation and move on. No sane, good man worth having will date you when you are stuck on your ex and still completely enmeshed with him in this "friendship".

Do you want there to be something more than platonic feelings?

Yes. And I haven't come right out and said that, but I have tried to give him fairly obvious hints. Of course, another guy friend of mine tells me that he is just dense and I need to come right out and say it.

In retrospect, I had to say it first last time. And despite what other people may think about the situation, it was because he didn't want to risk our friendship. Once I told him, it moved forward quickly. Probably too quickly. But that aside, I don't fully agree with the fact that all men are the same and will tell you when they want you. And I know enough about this particular man and his past outside of me, that he is very cautious in relationships in general because of past burns.

I am not saying that to say that he IS interested, but that I don't put all men in to the same "men do this" category. Partly why I wanted multiple men's opinions on what they do/don't do in a situation like this. I do have lots of male friends, and they know a lot more details about this than I can put here. THEY mostly say, based on knowing him and me and the full situation, that it could go either way. The one closest to him says he is just worried that I don't feel the same way and is not getting my "hints". I obviously don't know. Another of his friends says he IS interested, but he doesn't have a solid word on that... it is just his observation of how he treats me.

I think my own fear of losing what we do have holds me back from attempting to move forward myself.

I more or less came here to get unbiased opinions. And I appreciate everyone's insight one way or the other.

I think people move towards pleasure and away from pain. People who want to be in a potential romantic relationship with another person and are single/available choose being with that person over fear of it not working out. People who want to be with other people typically want that other person to know ASAP and directly so that the person he or she wants to be with will not be snapped up by someone else while he/she is waiting to be "ready" and "not scared".

All of your words boil down to this: he is not asking you out/to be in a relationship because he chooses not to. Whatever the reason/excuse -he is choosing his fear/his perceived fear over "risking the friendship" -whatever - you can get a million opinions and tell yourself "every man is an individual" and that is true - but there are general truths about human beings which I wrote in the first paragraph.

And yes in some cases it's good and helpful to show interest -flirting, body language, asking the person out if that feels comfortable and appropriate - but most of the time a person who wants to be with you will choose you over fear/risk.

This is just my two cents and life experience/observation..... When you engage with a man who is such a fragile greenhouse flower when it comes to relationships, you are choosing a partner who is liable to be weak, may well be emotionally unhealthy and....well not make a good long term partner for you. Life gets hard and people like that tend to bail out when it gets hard. Just something for you to consider or keep in the back of your mind. You are very stuck in the "does he want me".....but maybe you should think long and hard on whether this is an emotionally available, emotionally healthy person who would make a good partner or not. Some people make great friends.....loyal, reliable, amazing....but they also make terrible long term partners. Food for thought.

Just to mix it up a bit, I have encountered more than one man who didn't make a move. I could tell there was some interest but something was holding them back. Over time I heard the same feedback, that it was I that was hard to read and that's why they didn't know which road to take.

Maybe you should consider your own signals? I thought mine were perfectly clear, but apparently not. And I've made the first move a couple of times. But I wouldn't have done so unless I was certain the interest was there.

I've written here more than once, that if there is interest you will know it. But having just giving it some more thought. Not everything is black and white.

Just to mix it up a bit, I have encountered more than one man who didn't make a move. I could tell there was some interest but something was holding them back. Over time I heard the same feedback, that it was I that was hard to read and that's why they didn't know which road to take.

 

Maybe you should consider your own signals? I thought mine were perfectly clear, but apparently not. And I've made the first move a couple of times. But I wouldn't have done so unless I was certain the interest was there.

 

I've written here more than once, that if there is interest you will know it. But having just giving it some more thought. Not everything is black and white.

Thank you for this. I, too, have encountered this more than once.

And my best friend often tells me that I need to be more clear. So I have considered this. And wonder just how blunt I have to be.

Thank you for your thoughts and experience.

Thank you for this. I, too, have encountered this more than once.

 

And my best friend often tells me that I need to be more clear. So I have considered this. And wonder just how blunt I have to be.

 

Thank you for your thoughts and experience.

It's not about being blunt. It is about being direct -two different things. No need to give directness the negative connotation of blunt. I would limit it to ten words or less -no back story, no apologies "What are your intentions towards me" or "what am I to you" if he feels there is romantic potential he will jump at the chance to tell you that he wants to be with you. When my future husband/then ex wanted to know he said "what do you think about us getting back together?" or he may have even said "do you want to get back together." I stammered -I was surprised and nervous! And I chose him over fear, over the risk that this second chance would be a failure. With the stammering and the fear my response was delayed by about 20 seconds. "Yes!". And yes I added some sort of "what if sentence but that quickly faded out of my head because when you want to be with someone that takes priority over any fears/jitters.

It's not about being blunt. It is about being direct -two different things. No need to give directness the negative connotation of blunt. I would limit it to ten words or less -no back story, no apologies "What are your intentions towards me" or "what am I to you" if he feels there is romantic potential he will jump at the chance to tell you that he wants to be with you. When my future husband/then ex wanted to know he said "what do you think about us getting back together?" or he may have even said "do you want to get back together." I stammered -I was surprised and nervous! And I chose him over fear, over the risk that this second chance would be a failure. With the stammering and the fear my response was delayed by about 20 seconds. "Yes!". And yes I added some sort of "what if sentence but that quickly faded out of my head because when you want to be with someone that takes priority over any fears/jitters.

Appreciate your comments. Yes, I guess direct is a better word. I do tend to gravitate towards making statements that seem obvious to me, but shielding them with just enough safety that I could play them off if it went badly.

I would let him know how great he is with your kids, how much you appreciate him etc. I would ask him to do activities or more activities together, have him over for dinner. You get the idea. No commitment but a trial run. He is already spending alot of time with you guys. Encourage it more. See where it goes...good luck!

After you dated last time and broke up, you remained friends so you didn't lose the friendship. Since you have already dated, it seems he's happy just being friends. If you want more just say so.

I had to say it first last time.

I think my own fear of losing what we do have holds me back from attempting to move forward myself.