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Talking about race in a relationship


itsallgrand

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So this is a delicate issue, which is exactly why I'd love some input/advice.

My partner and I have been together over 3 years now, living together, and are having a commitment ceremony this fall. We met in our late 30s, so falling in love this time around, it has felt much more grounded than any other relationship I've been in. We love each other. No doubts at all in my head about that, same goes for commitment . We are trying to start a family as well, and some long time posters know more about that.

Anyways, it's to say we have a serious loving relationship.

 

Ok, now the issue . Sometimes I just don't know what to say or do when he expresses to me some of his feelings and experiences that come down to how he's been treated at times due to his race. My experiences of being on the receiving end of racism are quite minimal. His have been more impactful and common. I don't doubt the truth of it at all, I've seen enough to know it's real.

 

It's come up a few times. We are on an adoption list, we had multiple conversations about race in relation to potential child. But more every day occurances can bring it up too. For example, last night

 

He went out with a friend, and as he'd coming home I get a call. Apparently driving back he witnessed a woman being assaulted by a man. Two other strangers stopped too. One man restrained the guy who was beating the woman, they called the police.

 

He was crying on the phone. I talked with him til he got home, and I sat by him just hugging him. He is a big bear of a man, and he was crying telling me how helpless he felt. What is wrong with people? He kept saying. And how he is so sick of seeing people of his race treated like animals. The lady was of his race, the man not. He said a lot more but it all came down to this deep pain he has of the racism. Seeing that assault really brought it to the surface.

 

How do you support a partner when it comes to this? I'm looking for any tips or insight.

I thank anyone who is willing to touch on this delicate topic.

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Do you think he's a little overly sensitive and enjoys playing the victim?

 

The event that he witnessed may not have been a racial attack; it may simply have been something domestic or many other possibilities.

 

What specific racism has he experienced in his life?

 

Also, you are in a 'serious loving relationship' and you live together and want to have a family. What is preventing you from making your union legalized by marriage?

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Hi Sarah, thanks for the response.

 

Oh, he admits he is particularly sensitive when it comes to this. He's been willing to speak to someone about it, and I think that's good. For him and for me, for our future. Some of this is past stuff being projected onto now.

 

Also he would agree the assault may not have been racially motivated. It brought up feelings for him , but he understood that.

 

As far as not choosing marriage, that's simply personal choice.

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Oh, he admits he is particularly sensitive when it comes to this. He's been willing to speak to someone about it, and I think that's good. For him and for me, for our future. Some of this is past stuff being projected onto now.

 

This all sounds great—his awareness of an issue that is very real, but also sensitive in ways that have the potential to tax the relationship and that the relationship alone cannot serve as a shelter from. So be there for him, as you clearly are, and as he finds someone to talk to hopefully it softens things just the small touch more that you, he, and the magic that is you guys together could use.

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I think it's something that you have to feel out with each situation as it happens. You can support someone by discussing issues with them, but you can also support them by giving them some space.

 

For example, the situation you described above may not have been motivated by race. But for him, it triggered pain associated with racism. I think that is a situation where it's best to give someone a little space. Sit back and let things run their course. As you can see, he does understand that there could be more to the story than what he interpreted.

 

I really think a lot can be said for giving someone space and respecting their perspectives even when they don't totally make sense. It sets up an environment where both people feel safe talking to each other. That in itself heals a lot of pain.

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Thank-you .

This is helpful.

That's exactly what I'd like to do - just make sure he feels safe to feel what he's going to feel.

 

I think for the most part, he does. He says being around me , hes let his guard down more than he ever has. Which is when those old feelings tend to pop up -in general, not only when it comes to this particular pain.

 

Space. I'm thinking about that.

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My thoughts echo a lot of what Jibralta wrote. He may have also had an overwhelming reaction to the physical act of someone being assaulted or taken advantage of. I also think it depends on where you live and your demographic. If he's constantly feeling outnumbered, singled out, marginalized etc etc etc because of his skin colour and the local demographic, maybe it's a good time to question your surroundings. My husband and I have contemplated moving to back to the US or Canada (even another town in BC) but there are obviously some areas that are out of the question for us. We even second guess whether to visit for an extended period. This is just a matter of convenience too for us as we obviously don't just look a certain way. We also eat different foods (accessibility of certain foods and imported items) and speak different languages and want to be around others like ourselves. I don't think race issues are skin deep. Depending on his culture, he may have a deeper sense of helplessness that goes beyond skin deep, related to his surroundings also and his relative demographic.

 

I agree with creating safe spaces. He may feel alone even with you if you don't share the same experiences. You shouldn't take that on as guilt or as if it's your job to cure that or make it all better. I'm glad he's speaking to someone or willing to speak to someone about it. I personally think he needs to associate with more people of his culture and learn to associate his culture/people of his colour in different positions in society. Psychologically he seems to associate people of similar colour to positions of powerlessness and pain. If I continued to see images of that or associate a certain group with that mentality, of course I'd be rubbed raw too and quite annoyed at the situation. If he can shift his psychology differently and learn or see it in action that others of his culture are in positions of power or influence I think it might help which brings me back to demographics and his associations. He needs to get out of that mentality/associations with weakness and lack of empowerment and shift.

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itsallgrand, I think you responded just great! Letting him talk, cry, hugging him..

 

I'm sure just being there was a great support for him.

 

You sound like a caring supportive gf (person) I'm glad you found each other.

 

Re this situation, I am very much like your bf. Witnessing incidents like that have a profound effect on me and would no matter what my race was.

 

I've gotten very upset and cried, had nightmares even. They stay with me.

 

Re his race, I've learned over the years to never underestimate how history and what our ancestors experienced impacts us.

 

Some more severely than others, we all have our own unique sensitivities to it.

 

You said the woman assaulted shares his race, her abuser does not.

 

I can definetly understand why this would have such profound impact on him; jmo but sometimes saying nothing and just listening is the best thing one to do.

 

Let him cry, scream whatever.

 

I'm no expert, but again I think you handled it just great. :)

 

And congrats on your upcoming commitment ceremony! :D

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So I'm basing this on my assumption that this is interacial as in you are white and he is black/hispanic/native american etc.

 

 

First things first and this is a big one for me. You don't experience racism. Prejudice, but not racism.

 

Someone disliking you or saying mean or even hateful things to you based on you being white (?) is prejudice and racism is just a completely different beast. Racism is a monumental, generational, institutional, societal, psychological beast that many today dismiss or don't understand or use as a buzz word.

 

As I get older I am learning just how important my peace is. Romantically and otherwise. I need the people I welcome into my circle into my tribe to respect me. I don't need you to understand, but acknowledge that how I feel, how I view the world, how I experience the world is different. People who cant, I cant have around me slowly chipping away at me. Look how quickly he is labeled overly sensitive. One of the most insulting things someone can say to me is "I don't see color" cause essentially what you are telling me is, you cant handle accepting me for who I am and my differences, and the issues I face, so you'd rather pretend they don't exist. You're erasing me because you don't want to be uncomfortable. I suppose many would label that as overly sensitive, I personally see it as a refusal to see the world through someone elses lens. Would I have had the same reaction your fiance (?) did? Probably not, but that doesn't mean he didn't experience it.

 

You sound like an amazing fiance (?) I think the best way to embrace him is to accept and hear what he is feeling and just be there for him. Literally just be there, he trusts and loves you enough to share all this with you, the best thing you can do is simply love him back.

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I really appreciate these thoughtful responses.

 

I suppose we are an interracial couple, though in some ways not. I know it sounds strange, let me explain. Yes, you see me, you'd call me white. I'm French Canadian and on my mom's side there is Metis. So I have some family who are aboriginal, and I've grown up very familiar with some of the cultures. He is aboriginal, Dakota, though he's grown up mostly around white people.

 

It's simply how he looks, that has decided how some people treat him. Anyone not familiar can do Google searches, but the history is long and painful and it's still playing out today.

 

Thinking about what Rose said, yes, I think that contributes ( the environment). He has said that while on the east coast, and the west, and elsewhere he has been, treatment had been markedly different. I believe him, I've seen it.

 

I've also always encouraged him to be proud of his heritage and take part in the community. We go to pow wows together, dinners, and he's tried to make connections. Unfortunately the community is quite fractured, so there's been disappointments along the way ( like with his trying to gain more cultural teachings, and having such a hard go of finding someone who would follow through).

I do think it would be GREAT to have more friends who he can relate to on this and who are doing well themselves. We have a few friends like this, but again, he does see so much of the unhealthy painful realities for a lot of people so often here ( demographics, yes).

 

I'm soaking in what everyone has said. I'm not perfect with it but I'm trying and willing to be humble about where I may not totally get it. I love him and I'm going to keep loving him no matter what. It's hard heartbreaking to see the paiin racism has caused this sweet sensitive guy .

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I wish you all the best and I feel so confident that you will figure out -on your own and together-what works. I just don't know what I can contribute other than my best wishes and always an ear. I have some thoughts that others have shared and don't feel equipped to say more than I think what you're trying to do is impressive and on the right path.

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It takes strength and courage to be honest about your struggle and it seems like you are his voice at the moment. Today I saw a poster at the school I work at (I contribute a Saturday afternoon here and there as an examiner for a few hours) and it had the image of a powerful young lady named Ashley Callingbull (Enoch Cree Nation, Alberta), named Miss Universe 2015, as a strong proponent against racial stereotypes and sexual abuse. I stopped to read the poster as I hadn't seen it before but must have walked by it numerous times. I felt very proud of the diversity and the representation of First Nations cultures in the school. I wondered why some schools were better than others and why I haven't made more of an effort to hear more voices, learned more, read more perhaps. There is also an office in the school dedicated to the Nation on which the school has been built on for anyone and everyone who is interested. I think I should have quit this position a long time ago but it gives me a lot of personal fulfillment and I feel connected to the community (more so than my corporate role). I am personally tied and sensitive to ethnic or racial issues as my first degree was anthropology before business (not really because I dealt with any issues prior). I wanted to know more about why we behave differently towards each other and what it takes for human beings to survive as a successful society, honouring our differences and striving for a positive future. It really was my first love, so to speak, but I chose not to pursue a career in it. I'm very aware that there are different dialogues and attitudes that surround the topic of races or cultures but at each crossroads, I've always found that having a voice or being strong enough to use one's voice is absolutely critical in the preservation of culture and sharing of different cultures. The product of sharing voices and being heard is ultimately...acceptance, understanding and greater unity in a community. I really believe in that.

 

I hope that your partner continues to feel safe using his voice, coming forward and even sharing his grief. We sometimes go through our daily routines and forget to open our eyes to others or what they're doing or what is happening around us. I hope your partner finds his strength in his history and in his ancestry and doesn't lose hope that his voice counts too. If he likes to write, I'd encourage him to create poetry or verse. If he enjoys painting, he may be able to channel his identity and his pride for his people through works of art. He seems like he has a tremendous amount of passion that can be transformed into his own voice or his own way of contributing to society and speaking for himself and his history.

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I think he is being overly sensitive to be honest.

To the point where I am unsure of how much mothering you can or should do when it comes to the topic.

 

He witnesses an assault on a girl of his race from a guy outside his race and rather than be upset about the actual event , he is upset for his race in general.

Yes I get that it might be a trigger , but is that because he himself witnessed a friend or family member treated that way?

So it’s more of a personal trigger rather than a racial one?

 

He is a 40ish year old man. Are you aware of the full extent of racism he has been subjected to from childhood to now?

Personal stories?

 

I absolutely think it’s great that you would support him in being proud of his heritage , however I’m wondering why you need to “encourage” him to be ?

 

For someone to get so emotional over the issue and finding it hard to find connections , why wouldn’t he channel his emotions into doing something productive? Set up an online support group? Local meetings? Etc?

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Why is it "mothering" and not "supporting" to help a man who is upset?? Yes some people are spurred to action and act in the face of injustices (yes, I have many times, not so I wouldn't become emotional but because it's just in me to "do something" and I also could be emotional if that's what happened). I am not going to judge someone who reacts as her fiancee does as I simply haven't walked a mile in her shoes. I was bitten by a dog in 1992, unprovoked. For many years I was triggered by seeing any larger dog approach me and especially dogs outside off leashes and probably far more than "typical" people. No, it's NOT racism - but yes I was "discriminating" in the sense of type of dog and dog in general. Now I'm much better, it took time. I get it on that level (and I'm happy to PM with the OP on how I get it more specifically).

 

I cannot stand the denigrating "mothering" label when applied to an adult who is upset. She is supporting him by being there for him AND with him - and supporting him by asking here how to use her time and energy and heart "wisely" to do her best by him. Because they are a team and his experience is not like what she has experienced it seems (makes sense) so she is navigating unchartered waters.

 

Yes, we can think someone is overreacting but we have to hear their stories first and also factor in whether we've walked a mile in their shoes.

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He was crying on the phone. I talked with him til he got home, and I sat by him just hugging him. He is a big bear of a man, and he was crying telling me how helpless he felt.

 

If you read this description, it's easy to see how the OP's actions could be construed as mothering. He was crying to her on the phone. When he got home she sat and hugged him as he continued to cry and tell her how helpless he felt.

 

We don't have enough information from the OP to determine if the incident was 'triggering' for him due to personal experiences or not. On the surface, it looks like he's a 40 year man who is overly sensitive and needed the comforting arms of his girlfriend/mother figure.

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Why is it "mothering" and not "supporting" to help a man who is upset?? Yes some people are spurred to action and act in the face of injustices (yes, I have many times, not so I wouldn't become emotional but because it's just in me to "do something" and I also could be emotional if that's what happened). I am not going to judge someone who reacts as her fiancee does as I simply haven't walked a mile in her shoes. I was bitten by a dog in 1992, unprovoked. For many years I was triggered by seeing any larger dog approach me and especially dogs outside off leashes and probably far more than "typical" people. No, it's NOT racism - but yes I was "discriminating" in the sense of type of dog and dog in general. Now I'm much better, it took time. I get it on that level (and I'm happy to PM with the OP on how I get it more specifically).

 

I cannot stand the denigrating "mothering" label when applied to an adult who is upset. She is supporting him by being there for him AND with him - and supporting him by asking here how to use her time and energy and heart "wisely" to do her best by him. Because they are a team and his experience is not like what she has experienced it seems (makes sense) so she is navigating unchartered waters.

 

Yes, we can think someone is overreacting but we have to hear their stories first and also factor in whether we've walked a mile in their shoes.

 

Sorry that you got bitten by a dog. That's terrible.

 

I agree with you the term 'mothering' is patronizing and discredits the emotions that this man was going through. Sitting down and hugging someone who is upset is NOT mothering. It's showing compassion and a desire to understand someone else and what they are feeling. We might also want to note that this is a significant other (someone the OP loves deeply).

 

The OP, itsallgrand, gave examples in post #11 about racism tied to demographics, its influence on culture and acceptance and the differences that were seen and felt dependent on location or geography. In other words, her partner felt racism was more prevalent in different locations and the OP herself has seen firsthand the effects that changes in geography and demographics has on her partner. I think we are seeing and reading in this thread what we want to see at times and failing to see or hear what's being shared - that's where ignorance, break down in trust and lack of respect for other voices and their experiences begin.

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I pretty much echo what Bat wrote.

 

To add to it, I read itsallgrand's post as her bf was upset at both the brutality of the incident itself and the injustice of it due to race.

 

Or his perception of it being about race, I didn't read where it was proven to be a racial attack.

 

But that doesn't matter. Her bf has the right to his perception and to feel whatever emotions he feels without being judged.

 

We all do!

 

W/r/t the race issue, to repeat what was posted earlier, I have learned over the years to never underestimate how history and what our ancestors have experienced effects us.

 

Something does not have to happen to us personally for us to be impacted by it. History can have a profound impact; we all have our own unique sensitivities to it. Some more severe than others.

 

Itsallgrand, your bf/fiancé is lucky to have such a caring and compassionate partner.

 

It sounds like you're lucky to have him too, and wish you both the best!

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I pretty much echo what Bat wrote.

 

To add to it, I read itsallgrand's post as her bf was upset at both the brutality of the incident itself and the injustice of it due to race.

 

Or his perception of it being it being about race, I didn't read where it was proven to be a racial attack.

 

But that doesn't matter. Her bf has the right to his perception and to feel whatever emotions he feels without being judged.

 

We all do!

 

W/r/t the race issue, to repeat what was posted earlier, I have learned over the years to never underestimate how history and what our ancestors have experienced effects us.

 

Something does not have to happen to us personally for us to be impacted by it. History can have a profound impact; we all have our own unique sensitivities to it. Some more severe than others.

 

Itsallgrand's, your bf/fiancé is lucky to have you.

 

It sounds like you're lucky to have him too, and wish you both the best!

Wholeheartedly agree.

 

When it is systemic racism over generation upon generation it impacts every generation either directly or indirectly.

 

We should also never brush off violence nonchalantly and become immune to suffering. Crying is a completely normal response whether woman ,man ,child whatever to seeing violence . Comforting that person is a completely normal response . Absolutely right and absolutely compassionate. ( both people)

 

And people’s feelings are valid .

 

I also agree you were both lucky to have each other . ❤️

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I don't think it's a regular occurrence in the lives of most adults to be cuddled and comforted when very upset or emotional. If it were a habit, I could see where the mothering comments were coming from.

 

It doesn't even sound like he was asking to be comforted (although I can imagine an adult doing just that on the rare occasion they were unusually upset, without being codependent or weak by default), and it doesn't sound like she imposed herself as the mother figure. She provided what she, in that moment, felt she could, and that was care and compassion. My understanding of her post is she wants suggestions for how to contribute more efficiently than just by comforting, so I don't think this situation is a pixel in a greater madonna with child picture. She's looking to inform herself on what else, apart from immediate, instinctual expressions of care and sympathy she can provide, as this was a first, and she felt unprepared. I just think it's natural. I mean, even after he got home, would anyone really have told him he's too triggered by the injustice of his past, his race..?? Racism provokes strong reactions, and just plain violence regardless of race does too. Because it is in fact a huge, dramatic, unacceptable deal.

 

Try witnessing people getting beat up on a regular basis. You'll cry like a "big baby" eventually, regardless of what an admirably independent, strong, healthy, proactive person you may be.

 

 

 

I'm personally, and partly also by means of "occupationally aquired" weakness, very dusturbed by violence. So I guess I may be deemed biased, for what I think is a basic, usual, human sentiment. It bugs me on a deep level that people are victims of violence all the time, and at times the knowledge of having not nearly as much individual impact on preventing it or helping a person as I would like can make me emotional. I don't seek out cuddles but hey if someone held me or expressed support I wouldn't say no. again, I'd be concerned if it was a default setting to cry an evening away because "there's injustice in the world", or a default setting for someone to comfort me at first sign of distress. but knowing someone has experienced racism, inequality, violence, any of that, first hand and gets upset that it's still so prevalent as to affect many daily when they witness an incident...yeah I don't think they're being a baby. It goes with being human, and with having social and sociopolitical awareness to sometimes be very disturbed and moved by the suffering of fellow humans.

 

I like the suggestion for him to get involved with a cause. Local community, support group, raising awareness, volunteering. Regular contribution can help him deal with the feelings of helplessness, and with his variation of "survivor's guilt" he may feel if he was ultimately able to escape the worst of the abuse his race /others dispriveleged/ tend to experience.

 

I wholeheartedly agree we should never become numb to suffering. It doesn't mean to cry about it all the time, but it happens. Objectively speaking, he, or most individuals, are small and mostly helpless in the face of large scale injustice. I don't think it's possible for an aware, reasonably empathetic person to not break down about it at some point.

 

That's admittedly not an answer to the initial question, but just saying, I understand both his and her reaction.

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Whatever anyone's opinions on intergenerational and race-based trauma are, it is at the end of his day to adequately cope with their ramifications or to seek help in doing so if he innately cannot. This of course is coupled with society's responsibility to combat the injustices which induced and continue to induce said traumas. It's by no means fair, but it is what it is. It's one thing if you're being asked to step up to the plate and offer a shoulder as you'd typically expect a partner to, but it's another if you're essentially being the person charged with his reconciling of the world around him. Gauge which role you feel he's having you fill, and sensibly but sensitively suggest he seek someone much better trained and equipped to help him in the endeavor should you feel you're serving as the latter. Not being an active party or observer, I'll defer to your judgement.

 

FWIW, I'm white Hispanic. Growing up, the racism was very tangible. My grandparents fled Spain after Franco successfully took power and landed in a Mexican-American community for the sake of lingual familiarity. Spanish is my first language. I didn't speak a word of English until I was 4 and the preschool informed my mother I couldn't be enrolled unless I spoke English. I was mocked and beat up on account of my accent (spoke with a hint Andaluz growing up until I trained myself to speak in a more Mexican accent). In age, I was treated better than the odd and unfortunate white boy who didn't have a Spanish last name to fall back on, but I was never considered part of the community on account of, at the end of the day, being white. I ended up going to high school in South Chicago, where I was henceforth known as "a fake Mexican" (for having Spanish surnames, not for ever claiming to be Mexican) among other much less savory Hispanic and white slurs all my years there, while routinely beat up for not having the money I was expected to have and provide on account of my skin color. That experience in an almost all-black high school was actually why I then and to this day low-key use my dad's non-Spanish name, though it's admittedly much more out of habit nowadays.

 

Now I don't tell that account to serve as a dog whistle or a segue for someone to come in and talk about how the Irish had it just as bad as the African slaves. On the contrary, I hope it qualifies to the more skeptical among us that I do have some particular cause to be sensitive to what are still and unfortunately pervasive issues of race. But there's only so much you can be expected to be responsible for helping someone else take in the world as it is, though hopefully not what it will continue to be. It's important to be sensitive, but it's just as important to still treat him as an adult. Again, you being the a much better authority than me with regard to your relationship, I'll leave it up to you whether you feel boundaries need to start being drawn.

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Itsallgrand, if it helps I felt somewhat helpless when my mother inlaw was dying - in hospice for months, basically in a coma, tubes etc (my husband and his family's choice not to have a DNR, etc and I might have made a different choice in that situation but kept my mouth shut which was the right thing to do!). Yes, I'd experienced loss, yes I'd had a loved one pass away and yes, of course I knew my husband well BUT it all seemed so fraught with the potential for wrong choices that even if well meaning/unintentional, would not help him and might even hurt his feelings, etc. What I did was turn to close family members, spoke with some friends, did some reading I believe and mostly honed all of my listening skills because at the end of the day that is what carried the day. I wasn't a "bad" listener but in my case he wasn't crying a lot or "emoting" a lot and there was so so much going on with him - such a struggle for him to know how to cope with the trauma. And me too but it was his mother so it's different just like you might not totally get what he's going through since you are of a different race, experiencing the world differently (not saying you haven't experienced racism but from what you wrote it would be different given what race/background he has).

 

And yes, my mother in law died so it was sort of "over" in a way that racism isn't but the grief isn't over -it lessens maybe, manifests itself in different ways, but he carries this burden the rest of his life. And it's "unfair" when a loved one dies -it feels unfair -and I get that the unfairness of racism is different because we can't control death and we can exert control over what allows racism to continue.

 

So I like what Jman wrote about thinking about your role - you can't combat racism for him, you are not his mother (and I bet he doesn't want you to be a mother figure in any continuous basis!) and I like what Jman suggested about defining/considering that role and perhaps "delegating" a role to someone else if you're not the right person.

 

All the best. Thank you for being there for him.

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