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My breakup story - with some odd particularities


Lugus

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Hello everyone,

 

My fianceé decided to break our 5-year relationship last week, just about 15 days before our wedding. We've had an amazing relationship, I can't understate that. When I say amazing I mean it has all been incredibly weird, in a good way. We've had all sorts of adventures together. We used to do things like go track wolves in an unknown area with minimal gear and vivoac in improvised shelters during stormy weather, soaked to the bone. We've shared countless campfire nights, stayed wandering the winter forests up to the sunrise. We've shared unbelievable spiritual experiences, things I'd have considered absolutely not possible. We've gone as far as dying together.*

 

But this last year, moving into a new place, reforming the house, the death of relatives, loss of many things I loved, starting a business while staying in my regular job (unpredictable schedule), and trying to make that wedding happen with very limited funds and time had damaged the relationship. I fell into a pattern of trying to grasp more than I could, getting myself more and more attached to the outcomes. I became increasingly stressed, worried, irritable and weak. As my chronic stress got worse, my ability to concentrate on multiple tasks and handle interruptions dropped drastically, and so did my performance on all tasks. I was in no situation for social interaction.

 

*Some of you will be skeptical or think we should be institutionalised. I'll ask you to do the mental exercise of putting yourself in our place rather than judging the weirdness of it. It's all missing lots of details that would make me traceable.

 

Eventually, she told me she couldn't marry me because I was not being the person she engaged, and she was feeling alone with me. That hurt me way more than it should have, because at the same time my friends decided to drop a year worth of complaints on me. A week later, she just dumped me despite a "significant improvement", in her own words. She said she didn't see me as a partner or potential good father anymore and didn't love me the right way anymore. She said she still loved me so much she'd die for me, but just couldn't stay in a relationship. She hasn't entirely ruled out being together again at some point but doesn't want to give me any hope.

 

Something important to note is she has abandonment issues. Her father dissapeared when she was a toddler, and her step father did the same in her teens. That's probably her worst defect, she runs away from issues whenever hurt, and barely ever confronts them in time. She holds up her pain for as long as she's able to, then dissapears.

 

After the worst three days of my entire life, I came to the conclusion that there was no way this year would have ended well. This event set my priorities straight, shock-erased long months of worry and attachment, and for the first time in many months I felt myself again. I started to see this as an opportunity to solve my issues and improve. While I'm looking forward to the future with a renewed thirst for life, and keep all options open, I'd definitely like to do everything in my hand to save this relationship. With the cloud of worry dissipated, I notice my own feelings were dulled. Now I'm feeling in love like a damn teenager.

 

I'm looking for advice or psychological reads that may help put things in the right track. The easy part is going back to my better self, the difficult part will be tackling her fears and getting her to do the same while not making her feel pressured.

I'm not even looking for advice on how to get her back, I'm sure she'll do as long as she can see me as a potential partner and father again, and as long as her fear doesn't get in the way. But even if she doesn't, I want us to help each other heal and grow, to improve each other. At least that would be a proper ending to a nice story.

 

She's coming tomorrow to talk and decide whether to stay here, move, or go to her mother's place for a while. Coming from someone who usually just disappears, that's quite a good sign.

 

My main concern right now is I could use some more time to work on myself by my own and focus on my own needs before being fully prepared to work together, but I'm not sure how distance will affect her abandonment fears. I'd also like to be prepared for the conversation that will happen tomorrow and have a better idea of what the best course of action is.

 

Thank you for reading, ¿Any advice or good related reads?

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Well I'm not sure what to advise really. From that read you both come across as intense people and that's not a criticism by the way just my feeling.

 

Sounds like you pushed yourself so far that you lost control of your life and your relationship took a severe kicking for it. It's impossible to say whether it's recoverable but if you try and force that recovery it will definitely fail.

 

What also sticks out to me is that when things were going good they were great but when you hit a sticky patch it sounds like there was no trying to work together but you naturally seemed to pull apart which isn't a good sign and I'm not laying blame at anyone's feet here

 

I definitely think you should take time for yourself, fix the things that need fixing. Don't get back with her if you are not in a healthy place as the same thing will happen again and it would be fatal for the both of you next time I'm sure.

 

 

One last thing when you say you.both died was that a recent thing? I have briefly died in an accident and was revived but as you know once you've had a near death experience the world is not the same so if it is a recent going this may play a part possibly.

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No, that was three years ago, not related to this. The NDE drew us a lot closer.

 

She definitely did everything in her hand to help and supported me throughout these tough times. I'm the one who hasn't been a team worker. The issues on her side are that she focused on helping me and didn't stop to think about herself in time. If I ignored my own needs by overly focusing on tangible goals, she ignored hers by overly focusing on helping me and ignoring the fact that the whole was situation eroding her feelings and happiness up till the issue was too large to ignore.

 

This happened very similarly in my previous relationship (college days), so it's mostly a problem of mine and for me to deal with. On that occasion, she did ultimately change her mind, only it was too late and I had moved on.

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It's good that you are taking ownership and tackling your issues. It's hard to give advice on your post really as it just sounds like everything got out of hand.

 

Whether you get back together and stay together depends on many things. Have you fixed your issues, can you be sure this won't happen again? Can you be sure her abandonment issues won't raise their head if you do get back together etc etc.

 

As this is not the first time you have behaved like this maybe you should consider speaking to a professional about it. They can help you explore and understand why you do the things you do that cause such damage. Maybe an idea.

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It sounds to me like you both managed to get through 4 years without any major upheaval or upset in the relationship.

 

It is only when obstacles or hurdles present themselves and how each other handles those is when a relationship is truly tested . Unfortunately for you both , those hurdles came within a year of a promise to commit to each other and since neither of you responded in a way the other would like , the closer it came to that commitment date the more she dwelled on it, as you perhaps also should have.

 

As much as you would like to believe it’s because of her abandonment issues , I strongly believe it has nothing to do with that. If it was , she would have not stayed 5 years.

 

This , I believe has more to do with her expectations of someone to respond in a different manner than you did to the hurdles you faced recently and in the past year.

 

Who suffered more losses in the past year? You or her?

Moving house, renovating etc is a joint stress.

Who was planning the wedding? That is a lot of stress especially when restricted to a budget.

Who had a relative or relatives that passed?

What do you mean by having lost “many things you loved”?

The stress of starting a business is yours , agreed!

 

Who supported who? Who expected more support? Who withdrew? Who didn’t offer support?

 

Be honest with your answers and think before you do answer.

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When she comes over, just listen and observe very carefully. See where she is at. Do not rehearse an agenda.

 

Eventually, she told me she couldn't marry me because I was not being the person she engaged, and she was feeling alone with me.

 

She's coming tomorrow to talk and decide whether to stay here, move, or go to her mother's place for a while.

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"As much as you would like to believe it’s because of her abandonment issues , I strongly believe it has nothing to do with that. If it was , she would have not stayed 5 years."

 

Why wouldn't she have stayed 5 years? She didn't feel hurt or left aside through that time, she was happy, living amazing experiences and looking forward to a great future, she had no reason to fear. We've known each other since highschool. If I mentioned fear of abandonment it's because I've seen her run away from people who've hurt her without ever explaining a thing, again and again, and actually prevented her from making that mistake with friends a couple of times. She absolutely avoids any sort of confrontation, she ignores problems for a while and clings to denial, and then just walks away when they get too large.

I genuinly want her to learn to communicate things when they can still be solved, for her own good and independently of the result for me. She's an amazing person in every other aspect.

 

Moving house - both of us equally

Renovating - mostly my work, almost 100%

Planning the wedding - Mostly me. It wasn't exactly conventional, given the low budget. As for actual preparations, I built a stone altar in a forest clearing, made almost everything with my own hands but for the clothing, which was primarily her work.

Relatives - Both of us. She had two deaths, I had two deaths and a third with severe Alzheimers. We also had a mutual friend in coma, who woke up recently.

Many things I loved - With my grandfather's death there was a huge cascade of family issues, loads of hate, the properties where I lived my best times through most of my life put for sale (a house in the mountains and the family ranch where we engaged and were going to marry).

 

For the most part, she supported me and took all the small daily tasks while I took the larger and more challenging ones.

And she expected more support, or rather plain quality time and attention. I only expected to push through and finish the tasks and get back to normal life, I didn't ask for support. I was absolutely absorbed into these isssues.

 

I don't think to withdraw is the word. I was a mess of a person, couldn't stop one minute without stressing out for the stuff I had to do and wasn't already done. I was fully focused on getting though the challenges, I basically forgot everything else.

I didn't see things deteriorate, nor her having a rough time beyond what's expectable. I offered support whenever I saw she was struggling, which wasn't many times. She offered support constantly (frequently in unpractical ways)

 

"As this is not the first time you have behaved like this maybe you should consider speaking to a professional about it. They can help you explore and understand why you do the things you do that cause such damage. Maybe an idea."

 

It takes something to happen twice to see a pattern. The first time, I didn't understand what happened, I'm quite sure I do now. If I can't solve it on my own, I'll seek help, but not before.

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When she comes over, just listen and observe very carefully. See where she is at. Do not rehearse an agenda.

 

Please read these three wise sentences over and over. Focus on one word in particular—listen—and make that the only agenda right now. Just listen, just hear her. Speak one third the amount that she speaks, don't fill silences with lofty wisdom, don't shower her in all the realizations you've had and are having. When you feel yourself reacting, wanting to say something to clarify or prescribe or soothe—no, bite your tongue, and listen. Be humble.

 

I say that because you are clearly a quick and intense thinker, a fast learner eager to learn. Great qualities, those. Can relate. But being able to think yourself through certain dilemmas—an intellectual conundrum, say, or how to improvise a shelter in hostile weather—is not the same as a knot between two people. In fact, it can be a hindrance to that.

 

From what you've written you've not only quickly diagnosed yourself in the fugue state of a breakup, but also her. You see all the angles—and, hey, maybe you're genuinely seeing it all pretty clear. Great. For you. Your soul, your work, your path. Still, no one wants to be or feel diagnosed; it's patronizing, constraining. They want to be seen, heard, accepted—and I can't help but suspect that, past her "abandonment issues," what she is reacting to is the feeling of not being seen and heard for much longer than you or even she knows. That feeling of being alone even alongside someone, of losing yourself in the whirl of another.

 

So keep that analytical lens trained only on the thing you can truly control and understand and change—yourself. Be only open to her, her truth, even if it is the exact opposite of the truth you want to hear.

 

I can relate to a lot of what you're going through. I've had some of my most revelatory, introspective moments in the wake of breakups—one in particular, where I was left by someone I loved, had a genuinely great thing with, but quickly realized I'd lost "sight" of her at critical junctures. Devastating, that. But also needed. In losing her I evolved into a better person. I learned to listen. I learned humility. I learned the limits of my quick mind.

 

I'll tell you a little more about that chapter, because maybe it will resonate. For well over a year, maybe even two, I was pretty convinced we were meant for each other. I saw all the angles, because that's how my mind works. I'm a quick study, a fast learner. But I respected that we were not meant for each other right away—that I needed time, that she needed time, that I did not have all the answers, that the total mystery of her was more powerful than anything I understood.

 

I moved far away, committed myself to doing the self-work the breakup had shown me was needed. We stayed in touch a bit—and, sure, I hoped she'd (a) see the "new" me and (b) do her own self-work at a pace where we'd dovetail again and the story in my head would become the story we made in reality. But I didn't push, ever. It would happen or it wouldn't. That I could feel myself becoming a better person was already the prize—not reconciliation.

 

Well, we didn't get back together. Or at least not in the way I then hoped. Life happened. We walked different paths, diverged more than we converged. But we are extraordinary friends, forever people in the scheme of life—witnesses and guides, still. I love her. She loves me. It is not romantic, at all, and thoughts about that have long exited my mind and heart. But it is as beautiful and "right" as any romance. We probably value each other and appreciate each other on a deeper level today than we could when we were together.

 

I don't say that to say there is no chance here—hardly. That's just my life, you're living yours, and your fiancé is not my ex-gf. But I can feel a familiar tension in your posts—a clearheaded understanding and acceptance that now is not the time mixed with the edgy fear of losing someone. React to the clearheaded stuff, observe the edginess without making it your navigator. If you know you need time right now then you take that time.

 

There is nothing harder than accepting that time always knows more than us, and that, when it comes to two people connecting, timing is as real a factor as anything the heart and mind can produce. But there is also nothing more rewarding than learning how to be a student to time.

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Guess I'll just third what Wiseman said - LISTEN to her. Do not come into it full of personal agendas, understandings, ideas, plans, etc. The reason you are in the place you are in is because you haven't been listening. Not just listen, but truly quiet your mind and hear what she is telling you.

 

As a woman, to say to a man that you don't see him as husband and father material is pretty serious stuff and it's not driven by just some neglect over 1 year out of 5. It is not a light or compulsive statement about some neglect or hurt feelings. It is a very serious judgment of you as a person. If you want to do yourself a huge favor, then ask her why and listen carefully to her answer. No getting defensive, no talking back, no cutting in, no jumping in with promises to change. Hear her and pay careful attention. Then take some time to actually process what she said and then figure out where to from there.

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Thank you for the well thought and extensive response, bluecastle.

 

You are right in your advice, it seems sound. The only issue is, when it comes to painful situations, she tends to speak little, very little.

The fear of loss part is my way to understand why she has a hard time explaining herself and why he hasn't tried to before. I'll take the advice not to share that analysis or nothing more than strictly needed, you are right. But I'll have to share my "fill in the gaps" of her own words. Something that, if told, should be followed by a "is this the message you were trying to convey?". I didn't understand her reasoning at all at first, and it was painful for her as well. It's needed to clear the air. I'll see if that gets her to speak her mind a bit more.

 

She intends to keep a friendship, no matter what, actually takes that for granted. I can't help but be skeptical, as much as I'd like to think she's right. My previous relationship seemed to be going towards that path to a real, deep friendship. We actually always took that for granted. Until I started a new relationship (which she kinda pushed me to do). Then came the regrets, the heartbreak and she slowly distanced herself to the point where we've not seen each other in years. She had to consider me dead for her own sanity. It was an awful situation.

 

The reason you are in the place you are in is because you haven't been listening.

 

The advice may be right but the assumption is wrong here. When it comes to negative feelings, she's hermetic. Of course I've noticed she wasn't the same, but don't think I've not done my best to get her to speak her mind. It was never about me, untill suddenly it was.

 

As a woman, to say to a man that you don't see him as husband and father material is pretty serious stuff and it's not driven by just some neglect over 1 year out of 5. It is not a light or compulsive statement about some neglect or hurt feelings. It is a very serious judgment of you as a person. If you want to do yourself a huge favor, then ask her why and listen carefully to her answer.

 

I did that the moment she said it. She said "I don't know", and cried. "I don't know", coming from her, means "I'm not 1000% certain I can give you an absolute time tested and final answer". I only hope she's more calm now and has used this time to collect her thoughts and feelings.

 

Yeah. He had me on that one, too. Sounds like a lot of drama to me.

 

Actually, the near-death experience was so transformative and beautiful I'd sign for it again. No drama, no one actually ended up needing a funeral or permanently impaired. And it's not a rare thing at all, except for a couple having one at the same time.

I'm not going to specify anything because I want to maintain my privacy. Please save your judgment to yourself, it's not the point of the post and was just included for the purpose of illustrating we had gone through some exceptional things together, which definitely has an effect on the situation.

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You said you died. You did not say you nearly died.

 

Back on topic. It looks like she may be having some issues to work through.

But also keep in mind, these "issues" may just be an excuse for her to move on.

It's also a possibility she has already moved on with someone else, emotionally or even physically.

 

You can't really control the conversation tomorrow because you don't know what she is going to say. My advice is to actively listen to her. Don't be prepared with a response, it won't help and may give you a preconceived notion of what she is thinking. Just sit there, listen, and respond in a way that shows you understand. If needed, take time to reflect on what you want to say to her before you respond. Don't get involved in the heat of the moment and say anything dumb.

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I did that the moment she said it. She said "I don't know", and cried. "I don't know", coming from her, means "I'm not 1000% certain I can give you an absolute time tested and final answer". I only hope she's more calm now and has used this time to collect her thoughts and feelings.

 

A couple months ago I got the "I don't know", with tears in her eyes. I pushed and over-analyzed over several weeks until I got answers. I "don't know" turned into I know, but don't want to hurt your feelings. Then it turned into, this is all your fault.

 

Eventually, the truth came out. "I don't know" really meant I don't want to hurt you by telling you I have been cheating on your for months because I don't know how to openly communicate in a relationship in a healthy way or keep an open dialogue.

 

I'm not saying this is your situation. I am just saying that she knows. She is not telling you, and there is a reason.

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Getting someone to speak is not the same as giving them space to actually express themselves on their own and in their own time. My impression of you is that you are an intense person and anxious/high strung and the result is that you'll push for things when it's convenient for you or when you want to alleviate your anxiety about whatever you sense is off. The problem with that kind of behavior is that when you are dealing with someone who is more deliberate in their thoughts, which sounds more like what your gf is, you are going to actually accomplish the opposite of what you want - they'll shut down and push you away. The more pressure you apply, the more they'll resist. You probably don't realize you are pressuring. It's also possible that she doesn't see much wrong with you as such, just wrong for her in particular. You and her seem to have rather different personalities.

 

You are very very focused on the adrenaline rush bonding you guys had. Yes, that can feel very special, but....it doesn't necessarily stand the test of time and the day to day mundane life and the not so exciting challenges of that.

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Back on topic. It looks like she may be having some issues to work through.

But also keep in mind, these "issues" may just be an excuse for her to move on.

It's also a possibility she has already moved on with someone else, emotionally or even physically.

 

You can't really control the conversation tomorrow because you don't know what she is going to say. My advice is to actively listen to her. Don't be prepared with a response, it won't help and may give you a preconceived notion of what she is thinking. Just sit there, listen, and respond in a way that shows you understand. If needed, take time to reflect on what you want to say to her before you respond. Don't get involved in the heat of the moment and say anything dumb.

 

Thank you.

I guess my primary work should be to keep the clear mind state I've achieved when she steps through that door.

 

As for your second response, I've thought about that option, then decided there's nothing to gain about it. If it was the case, then I'd have solid reasons not to look back. But I can't picture her doing that. I've never seen her fail her own moral compass, she's very serous about her principles.

 

Of course she has an explanation, but again, I've seen her habit of waiting ages to make sure her impression is absolutely correct, then never saying it to the person involved because there's no point anymore.

 

You said you died. You did not say you nearly died.

 

Nearly dying fails to convey the message. The difference between dodging a bullet to the head or taking it to the chest, having your heart stop and being resucitated (no, there were no bullets involved), then remembering odd things about the process. Both things are nearly dying, but qualitatively different.

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So—and I'm just challenging you here, because it seems you can handle it—but see what you just did with DancingFool? What you did there was not listening. What you did is you heard—sort of—what DancingFool said and then offered a quick rebuttal. Yes, you're doing that with grace and soft language and an air of introspection, but you're also shutting someone down.

 

We are just straw people on the internet, of course, so it's all good. But I'm just highlighting this to make a little point.

 

Well, maybe not so little a point. Because what DancingFool said is genuinely profound: The reason you are in the place you are in is because you haven't been listening.

 

Those are hard words to hear, I know—believe me, I know—and the natural inclination is to defend. But try, for a moment, to let them sink in a bit. Try, for a moment, to accept that you might not know what those words mean for a year. Read them again and again. Don't tell me or DancingFool how they land—just let them land, let them roam.

 

What keeps seeping through your posts is a sense that you know and understand her more than she knows and understands herself. If I'm picking up on there here, I can only imagine she has picked up on that over the course of 5 years. And what is the cumulative affect of that? It's a feeling of not being listened to.

 

Make sense?

 

Rest assured, I don't mean any of this to sound harsh. I am speaking from experience—my own narrow experience, yes—but, like I said, it took me a long time to understand what it meant to really listen to a woman. I was a great bf to the woman I mentioned—she'll agree with that, 100 percent. But I was not a great listener, something she'd also agree with and something that took me years to really grasp.

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...

 

Don't worry, I like how you go to the point and explain things.

I knew it could and would be taken that way when I wrote it.

Admittedly, I'm not great at reading body language and nonverbal clues. Will I notice lots of things that seemed minor but weren't, and finally understand them knowing what happened after? Sure I will. Was I observing? Yes. Did I understand? I understood something was off, nothing more.

 

I tend to come off as not listening even when I am. I take the message, take it as good, then tend to focus on correcting the possible errors in my answer. I appreciate this conversation because I should definitely be on the watch not to do that with people I care for.

 

What I'm trying to convey is that there's an unusual level of non communication of negative thoughts. Not just the normal female nonverbal language. And that it's a problem in all social spheres of her life, including with her female friends. That, I know. The reasons are an informed guess, but it's better than nothing.

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Few more details have been fleshed out here so i would definitely agree with what virtually everybody else said and that is just to listen. The way you describe yourself and the way you react reminds me of me funnily enough and one thing i didn't do and have learnt from is we need to listen. Don't interrupt no matter how much you want, whether you 100% disagree with what she says, just let her finish. Then when she is done and you have shown her that you can now listen she will be more open to your dialogue.

 

Also and i don't know how you think this will go but if things go positively at all you will likely want to go into a mode of overcorrecting and try and fix things, with good intentions of course, but this will just make her angry. Dont even try to fix whatever your mind suggest to fix tommorow. Just listen. Good luck!

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Thank you.

I guess my primary work should be to keep the clear mind state I've achieved when she steps through that door.

 

As for your second response, I've thought about that option, then decided there's nothing to gain about it. If it was the case, then I'd have solid reasons not to look back. But I can't picture her doing that. I've never seen her fail her own moral compass, she's very serous about her principles.

 

 

Two months ago I was on a forum saying it was impossible my wife was cheating. There's no way she would do that. She's too good of a person, etc.

 

I was wrong, and am still devastated. I also said I could never forgive anyone who would do that. But even after then, I begged her back. Of course, I had a bit more invested with a child and marriage and whatnot.

 

Not saying she is, but keep your eyes open and your mind clear for all possibilities.

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Don't worry, I like how you go to the point and explain things.

I knew it could and would be taken that way when I wrote it.

Admittedly, I'm not great at reading body language and nonverbal clues. Will I notice lots of things that seemed minor but weren't, and finally understand them knowing what happened after? Sure I will. Was I observing? Yes. Did I understand? I understood something was off, nothing more.

 

I tend to come off as not listening even when I am. I take the message, take it as good, then tend to focus on correcting the possible errors in my answer. I appreciate this conversation because I should definitely be on the watch not to do that with people I care for.

 

What I'm trying to convey is that there's an unusual level of non communication of negative thoughts. Not just the normal female nonverbal language. And that it's a problem in all social spheres of her life, including with her female friends. That, I know. The reasons are an informed guess, but it's better than nothing.

 

 

The problem is, if you don't listen and don't interject yourself or you get defensive, she will not trust you. There is no excuse you can make to justify anything you say that makes her uneasy or feel like you are trying to persuade her.

 

Do not try to analyze her. Do not try to persuade her. Just listen. If it gets quiet and uncomfortable, that's fine. Don't panic and mess this up. This one conversation could be the one that sets her mind in stone for one choice or the other. All you have to do is be understanding and see it from her view.

 

If you are anything like me, you will try to problem solve and it will backfire. Experience talking here.

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