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Working for/and with an abrasive female leader who may harbor sexist attitudes


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Does anyone have experience working with a very aggressive, blunt, direct, and overbearing person? My work situation is a little complex because I report to lots of different people in different ways. One woman I work for, who is a very senior leader/director in my division, has a very abrasive personality. She can come off as rude, and everything about her delivery is harsh. It's tough to not react to her style and just focus on what she wants and what she's saying. But sometimes I have to correct her or redirect her, when it's not actually the best choice of action to just do what she commands, because sometimes she doesn't know the whole situation. But she's hard to say "no" to because she's so overpowering and can make you feel small. Also, I think she's a little sexist in that, I don't think she likes working with other women. I can see where she's coming from if she thinks most women are more touchy-feely and she clearly isn't that. I observed her passing over opportunities for other women, in favor of male candidates, and I can't help but think it's her gender bias.

 

I guess I'm kind of ranting about her now. Thoughts?

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I've worked with people like this. I did my best to limit our interaction to email (so that I could save emails as needed and at least one time, I did just in case) and I happen to like blunt but not rude - so the rude piece when it happened was the reason for the email interaction. Of course it's challenging to say no. So you rehearse, you self-talk - one thing I tell myself is 'I'm going to a tea party" (I've been to two formal tea parties in my life, that's it). Whatever it takes to trigger poise, groundedness, etc. I say as little as possible. I wouldn't presume sexism -she probably does better with other people who are blunt. There are men and women who are touchy-feely.

 

I would not correct or redirect. I would do the sandwich approach. Ignore her tone and say "thank you for those instructions. I appreciate your guidance. (and then do not say "however" or "but") -just say "my understanding is that _____." what are your thoughts on that approach?"

 

Or say "thank you. I will do so." Then when you deliver her project etc do a factual disclaimer "this ____ addresses [xyz] but not [abc]" - or convey in a very factual/direct way what you did and what your understanding was of the situation -as SHE described it, not as you thought it was. And of course you might be wrong, right?

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"Not the best choice" as in wrong? Or simply not, in your view, the most efficient? If her way still gets the job done, I'd smile and nod and be the most productive you can be with the directives issued. Sometimes it's the case that a plan is built to include a decision that may be inefficient, but changing or restructuring may impact other aspects which have been factored in. If something's legit gonna get fouled up inevitably as a result, then I'd take Batya's approach to heart, though as infrequently as absolutely possible. In those situations, it would then be your responsibility to inform her of details on the ground. Read: inform, not redirect or correct. If she wants to stick with a bad decision, so long as it's not breaking policy, all you can and should really do is document and perform. And I say as infrequently as possible because part of your role is going to be employing the familiarity of your role to best fill any discrepancies in her understanding of it.

 

Personally, I like blunt bosses. And, like Batya, it'd be great if you could get it without needless curtness, but that is quite rare. I've only ever enjoyed that combination in the military. Still, my skin's pretty thick, and I'd much rather take the blunt with the bad than not have it at all. You're going home with a paycheck all the same.

 

And while I'm mentioning Batya's name several times, I do agree both men and women can be sensitive. I also think that if we're speaking generally, women are still moreso (and understandably so given the history) struggling finding their assertive voice within their professions, and I wouldn't necessarily doubt your boss may have some particularly innate disrespect toward that archetype among her XX peers. But I doubt she's the type to give a guy a pass for the same. If anything, even if a sexist attitude in its own right, he'd likely be seen as more pitiful. I likewise wouldn't assume sexism, particularly when she's in a very different and elevated position to gauge needs and ability.

 

Big rule of thumb for me is that if you're not paid to care, then don't. Obviously without neglecting your career.

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Thanks, Batya that's good advice to be cognizant of my language and mindset going into the discussions with her.

 

j.man - I feel like I should speak up if I have concerns about something or if I think she may not be aware of some more information. I guess I struggle with how to present information to her so as not to come off as contradictory or insubordinate, or to seem like I don't respect her decision - but to still make sure she hears me, since she has a tendency to talk over people and steamroll. I mean, maybe I should assume she knows what she's talking about. I guess I'm used to working for people who ask for input and she doesn't really do that so I don't know when to offer it. Maybe I should never offer it.

 

Maybe I can figure out how to ask her about this, ask her if there is ever a situation when she would want my feedback or ideas or if she ever wants me to speak up if I have a concern about something she tells me to do. Maybe she'll say that if she wants my ideas she'll ask for them and that's that. I think that would be a hard pill to swallow but then I guess I'd know for sure.

 

When she started her role, I'd been here for a while and a lot has changed around here but I was under the impression when she started that part of my role would be to keep her updated about some important things, and to monitor progress on certain projects. So I feel like simple obedience without contributing my take on things, that's not really what she asked for in the beginning.

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Big rule of thumb for me is that if you're not paid to care, then don't.

 

Well that's true. My accountability for what goes down is pretty low. But I wouldn't want to just let her walk off a cliff if I could help it.

 

That's the hard part, because certain things, if I were in her position, would be issues for me to NOT do something. Like if a rearrangement would really upset people. But the way she sees things, feelings aren't as important so she doesn't see those as issues to deal with. So I see people being upset as a future problem and she sees people being upset but doesn't care.

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I notice that you didn't say anywhere that she was incompetent.

 

So, in the case of this boss, it seems like she is more interested in getting things done than she is in talking about them. She is goal-oriented, not very people-oriented.

 

I think the best tactic in this situation would be to keep your head down and just do the work.

 

I worked for someone like this at my own job. A lot of people had problems with him because he was impatient. He was a very fast decision maker and if something was going over budget he didn't care what you thought or felt. You had to change immediately, end of story. I thought of him as a rhinoceros.

 

Fact is, he made great decisions. His department ran like a well-oiled machine. He could probably afford to lighten up on his gruffness a bit. But at heart, he was actually an extremely nice person and I really liked him just the way he was.

 

One thing that helped me a lot was knowing that resistance was futile. I learned from the mistakes of others who tried to resist. If he told me to do something or change something, I did it. No argument. He was the boss.

 

It helped us both.

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Well that's true. My accountability for what goes down is pretty low. But I wouldn't want to just let her walk off a cliff if I could help it.

 

That's the hard part, because certain things, if I were in her position, would be issues for me to NOT do something. Like if a rearrangement would really upset people. But the way she sees things, feelings aren't as important so she doesn't see those as issues to deal with. So I see people being upset as a future problem and she sees people being upset but doesn't care.

 

I hear you asking `What can I do to change or alter her behavior?'

Answer: Nothing.

 

The only thing you have control over is how you choose to react to her.

She is going to be who she is. There is no clever response or delivery that going to change that.

 

I have a difficult boss and after several years of trying to navigate him, I just give up. Life if easier if I don't say anything.

Do they sometimes fall off the cliff, as you put it? Yep! But you didn't push her and you stay clear while she works to her pull herself back up.

 

People like this are not team players. Though your intentions are good, nothing you can do will change this dynamic.

 

You just need to figure out a way to get through your day without compromising yourself and let her doing her bad thing.

 

I have learned to bite my lip and smile.

It took me years to get here.

 

My boss always wants my input or feedback, only to tell me I am wrong and counter me. If I say black, he says white.

If I agree with white he changes back to black. So I just don't answer - or the other day I asked him why he asked me to begin with.

 

He interrupts me and used to correct me in front of people.

 

I just keep my head down, respond with one word answers and go about my business in my own way. I spend my entire work day trying to avoid him.

Big rule of thumb for me is that if you're not paid to care, then don't.

I think I'll put it on a tshirt.

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I love the input here. Please don't ask her whether she wants your feedback or input - she's going to say "of course I do -open door policy!" and she'll wonder why you'd ask such an obvious question in a professional environment. She may truly believe she is very approachable. I think you should avoid giving her feedback other than in the way it's been represented you should do so in this thread and very sparingly if at all.

 

I used to think I wanted touchy feely and my issue now with that would be that touchy feely also often involves sharing personal or at least non-work information. And now that I have a child and childcare challenges at times, etc I like it better to keep all professional/business like so that my boss doesn't know all the details of my childcare arrangements or my husband's travel schedule -so that when situations do arise (infrequently thank goodness!) they're treated as individual situations - and purely business -and not emotionally or in the broader context of "oh right you told me your husband has to go to ___ or oh right your son just quit his activity so now you have to find other arrangements."

 

My former mentor of ten years used to say "no one is sick on a Monday more than once" ( he assumed it was someone trying to extend her weekend or her vacation) - and he was grouchy/cranky/blunt. And I could take it and I reaped the benefits. Still am 20 years later. Just get on the thick skin, keep your nose down and do what Jman and Reinvent and Jibralta, etc said.

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If you have to, express your opinion without countering hers. Otherwise there are just some draconian bosses out there and that has nothing to with her or anyone else's gender. There are some great books on how to deal with difficult personalities at work, workplace dynamics and dealing with all sorts of personalities.

 

Does anyone have experience working with a very aggressive, blunt, direct, and overbearing person,

 

I think she's a little sexist in that, I don't think she likes working with other women. I can see where she's coming from if she thinks most women are more touchy-feely and she clearly isn't that. I observed her passing over opportunities for other women, in favor of male candidates, and I can't help but think it's her gender bias.

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The best review of my life was from a boss who i thought didn't like me/was tough. A boss that was friendly and warm towards me and gave me a false sense of valuing me actually recommended firing me. Give me the straightforward boss who cares about deadlines and numbers that respects me when i earn it through my performance. If i throw a hail mary, they are going to recognize it and maybe even come to me to ask how i did it.

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In my own defense, just want to say, I'm not jumping to wild conclusions when I mentioned her possible sexism. She said outright that she prefers working with men.

 

Well --- in my 20s I did to. my male bosses were clear about their expectations of me. So were female bosses who were 55+. I hated working with women in their 20s when i was in my 20s because the workplace was awfully cliquey. Men didn't talk all day about how they feel about their boss or coworkers like the young women did. I think you should be careful at deciding she is sexist. Just because someone has a preference does not make them sexist. If she wouldn't hire you because you were a woman, then that's sexist. If i say i prefer mentoring young people who are just starting in my industry, or i prefer working with established people 20+years older than me because i am new -- is that ageist?

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In my own defense, just want to say, I'm not jumping to wild conclusions when I mentioned her possible sexism. She said outright that she prefers working with men.

 

That doesn't make her sexist. At all. She's expressing a personal preference in a professional setting. She probably shouldn't share her preferences in that manner especially in today's climate. See this as an opportunity to learn from someone at the top of her field.

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It's your boss's job to make decisions and direct how things will be done. It's pretty much inevitable that there will be times that you don't like it, don't agree with it, or plain don't want to do it their way for various reasons.

 

However, before you go telling your boss this or that, ask yourself an important question - is your input required and would failing to provide the info be held against you?

 

If yes, you inform your boss directly, "boss, here is x, y, z info re project, do you still wish to proceed as you stated?" Leave her to decide. Do it via e-mail, so it's documented and it will avoid you trying to contradict or make your boss look uninformed in front of the team. That way if she ignores the info and things blow up, you've covered your rear and can't get blamed. It wasn't your decision to make either way and you did your job to supply critical information.

 

If the answer is no, and it's just a matter of personal preference, then quite frankly just go with the flow and do what you've been asked as asked. Avoid inserting your opinions on how something should be done where your input is not required.

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I've been thinking about this a different way since talking about it, and have approached my interactions with her differently since this - I have not changed my behavior externally, just changed my mental approach, internally.

 

Now, there's nothing I can do or should do to change her, but it got me thinking about the concept of a good leader and a competent manager/director. It seems that competency should include the concept of being a moderate person - not too extreme in either direction: not too soft, not too rigid. If a leader has all the most practical and best ideas, but turns people off and can't get anyone on board to follow her, due to her delivery, then the competency of this leader is questionable. I'm just considering this for discussion's sake, and not necessarily continuing to talk about her. I'm examining the concept of what makes a good boss. Part of it has to be getting other people - lots of different kinds of people - to willingly work toward a common goal, and part of that requires communicating that goal in a way that different people will understand its value. If you just tell people what to do, but can't effectively communicate why they should do it that way, there may be challenges amongst the ranks.

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Since you have the interest, why not do a bit of self study and/or take a short leadership class?

I personally got a lot out of doing that. It helped me in clarifying my leadership style, and in understanding the differing styles of leadership.

 

I've worked under a lot of relationship building orientated bosses. It caused a lot of conflict for me in the past, as it frustrates me when my work is subjected to so many social politics. I'm more value and task orientated.

 

Point being, knowledge is power.

 

One exercise I found particularly helpful was thinking of someone who I respect and admire. Name 5 positive traits of that person. Then do that with someone you don't like and who you clash with. Name 5 positive traits of that person in a leadership position.

Doing this made me laugh at loud, as I instantly recognized how I was getting in my own way by refusing the person's approach. Super helpful, the self awareness.

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I've been thinking about this a different way since talking about it, and have approached my interactions with her differently since this - I have not changed my behavior externally, just changed my mental approach, internally.

 

Now, there's nothing I can do or should do to change her, but it got me thinking about the concept of a good leader and a competent manager/director. It seems that competency should include the concept of being a moderate person - not too extreme in either direction: not too soft, not too rigid. If a leader has all the most practical and best ideas, but turns people off and can't get anyone on board to follow her, due to her delivery, then the competency of this leader is questionable. I'm just considering this for discussion's sake, and not necessarily continuing to talk about her. I'm examining the concept of what makes a good boss. Part of it has to be getting other people - lots of different kinds of people - to willingly work toward a common goal, and part of that requires communicating that goal in a way that different people will understand its value. If you just tell people what to do, but can't effectively communicate why they should do it that way, there may be challenges amongst the ranks.

 

So that's interesting. How have you done in leadership roles? Have you ever been a boss? I have and I didn't find it fun. I don't like having to delegate, I'm not great at ceding control of projects and that's in part because of really frustrating and stressful experiences I've had with people with a bad attitude and/or just not the sort of work ethic that would get the job done reliably and competently - and I often worked with really stressful, time sensitive deadlines that required everyone stepping up to the plate and going the extra mile, including me. I learned the following: not to give time sensitive "emergency" assignments if the emergency had anything to do with my not organizing my time well/being efficient; doing constant compliment sandwich emails, and never ever sending an email when I was frustrated with the work.

I am happy that in my role now -part time - I don't have to do much delegating at all, I work with really great people for the most part and my supervisors are not touchy feely, not into "relationship building" or any other catch phrases like that - they are fair in how they assign work, good at getting back to me if I have questions and tolerant of my childcare/family responsibilities (well that is built into the part time role/program I joined so I feel comfortable mentioning those responsibilties when I am asked to take on more work). But I work my behind off for them at all times and am reliable to a fault. I feel appreciated enough but again this is not a touchy feely situation where people are going to constantly praise me, etc. My paycheck is my "thank you" and I often get thank you emails and occasional praise. I also know from my reviews all is going well. So it depends what you expect your boss to do for you also.

 

I don't need to know the "why" of everything I'm being asked to do unless not being told will affect the efficiency. And I only ask if it affects efficiency/the bottom line. Again the focus for me is on the work, getting it done, not whether I feel good about doing it because I know "why". I also trust my boss to tell me the best way to get something done and I do it - I don't pry into the "why" unless I have to for purposes of the work. Or if there is time I might ask why if it will improve my efficiency on the next project.

 

Again I like your ideas in general -what's more interesting to me is how you've implemented them in practice.

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I have struggled leading other people because I've always thought that if I stated clearly what I wanted, and the broad idea behind it, and my chosen method, then I could just trust people to do it and speak up when something goes wrong. I'd say something like "I want to make this specific end result happen, because the ultimate goal is ___, and to get there I think we should do XYZ." And if needed, I tell people exactly what their expected end goal is, but not the specific steps unless they ask. But I have struggled because people get to problems, they don't speak up about it, or they change their minds part-way through and decided to do something else, and I thought I was being clear about what I wanted but I guess I wasn't.

 

I don't know. I really struggle to be authoritarian. But I observe her being very authoritarian and firm - and I've seen times when that didn't work, either.

 

I've come to the (possible) conclusion that you can't please everyone, so maybe the best method is to surround yourself with like-minded individuals who share your style and values about how to get things done. If you're into building relationships, then surround yourself with those kinds of people, and likewise if you're task-oriented. Conflicts will eventually sort themselves out as styles incompatible to their tasks will fail, and people who don't like their directors will either leave to work for people like them, or that director will get voted out and replaced my someone the masses want.

 

Example, a handful of people slowly quit and relocated after my current director came into position - specifically because they didn't like her style. So she's slowly changing the culture here to match her style, so there's no problems. I guess? Sure, she could lose good people, but their skills would be hindered if clashing communication styles gets in the way of us all doing our best.

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I don't understand why your focus is on being "authoritarian" - sometimes that is needed -sometimes I take that approach with my son meaning I just tell him matter of factly what we're going to do, what's going to happen next ,no room for negotiation but leading doesn't require "authoritarian". Is it possible you're elevating style over substance? Meaning why think you're wedded to a particular style as opposed to approaching situations individually with the overarching goal being the employer's bottom line and the most productive, efficient way to get there (which includes people finding it positive to work with you because it's inefficient if people keep quitting or refusing to do what is asked of them).

 

I think firm and direct is great and can be done in a very polite, professional way. I don't think it's about finding "like minded individuals" but rather about being flexible and figuring out what gets you to the end goal with the particular person. With some people I can show more of myself, my sense of humor, be more casual/lighthearted and with others I simply can't. Either because they don't get my sense of humor so it might even be off putting or because they are all business and don't even want to discuss the weather,etc.

Depending on the end goal, the type of people you are working with to get it done (meaning is it professional staff, administrative staff, do they work from home or on site, etc) and how it's been done in the past I personally would dispense with the "I think we should do xy" - show confidence in your approach and after telling the person the end goal and the intermediate steps (and when they need to check in with you -if it's at the end, fine or in the middle, or whatever) -then at the end of your instructions invite them to ask questions should they have any which covers the concern that they might not understand. And if possible set up specific times/time periods you want the person to check in with you. That way no need to micromanage or feel like you are.

 

I think your way is fine if you don't care about being employed at a particular place for any extended period of time because it's a bit needle in a haystack and kind of one size fits all. Just my two cents and I agree leading is hard!!

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In an ideal world all bosses /managers would be these perfect leaders you are reading about. However many are simply draconian egotistical micromanagers. You have to deal with what is, not what "should" be.

 

All you are doing is trashing her in your mind and making yourself crazy, unhappy and angry. You are silently seething and ruining your health, not hers. She's moving forward making more than you and enjoying her job. You're miserable.. She's not going to change no matter how many articles you read on what good leadership looks like.

 

You have to read articles on how to deal with Difficult people, not ideal people, that's a no brainer. Stop all the wishful thinking and get your resume tuned up if the culture she's creating sucks for you.

a handful of people slowly quit and relocated after my current director came into position - specifically because they didn't like her style.
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In an ideal world all bosses /managers would be these perfect leaders you are reading about. However many are simply draconian egotistical micromanagers. You have to deal with what is, not what "should" be.

 

All you are doing is trashing her in your mind and making yourself crazy, unhappy and angry. You are silently seething and ruining your health, not hers. She's moving forward making more than you and enjoying her job. You're miserable.. She's not going to change no matter how many articles you read on what good leadership looks like.

 

You have to read articles on how to deal with Difficult people, not ideal people, that's a no brainer. Stop all the wishful thinking and get your resume tuned up if the culture she's creating sucks for you.

 

I don't agree that "many" are draconian or egotistical. I do think that bosses-staff often have challenges in interactions especially in fast-paced stressful environments and especially if it's a "work for" and not "work with" mindset. I'm glad right now I'm in mostly a non-leadership role at work especially since in many instances I have to be my son's boss. I have three bosses right now. None of them is draconian or egotistical. Not even close. And I can see where others might find them a bit intimidating because they are not touchy feely at all and they are laser focused on getting the work done right and on time -not on "relationship building" - and that works great for me.

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could it be that you expect other women in the workplace to be like your girlfriend and she is all business and only business and you could accept that from a man, but not a woman? She doesn't gossip about others at work, she doesn't bring homemade cookies in for everyone and she doesn't idly chat.

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