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Thread: Anyone Struggle To Have Female Friendships? Anyone Have None?

  1. #21
    Gold Member mylolita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dias
    In my experience and from my observations, women who have predominantly male friends love/like men more. And who doesn't like a woman who loves men? I sure do!

    Maybe it's the same with guys. I get along with women better and if I had to pick between a woman or a man when it comes to friendships/work I would pick a woman 8/10 times. I think it's normal.
    Dias - I feel you on this one, thank you. Some common ground here. You sound like me, in male form.

    Don't get me wrong, God, there are PLENTY of men I have clashed with, especially on a professional and personal level. Men can be catty too to but, the majority of the time, I can't put my finger on it but we just click easier, better. I mean, I often say to my husband, if he'd already been married, I would've still wanted to have been his best friend. Sorry to sound like, pass me the throw up bucket but, that's how much I just adore him as a person. Take out the romantic love, we just get on so well.

    Lo x

  2. #22
    Forum Supporter ~Seraphim ~'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mylolita
    Hi IAmFCA!

    Thank you, a very interesting and thought provoking response.

    I am not without self analyse, or, self ripping! I am the first to admit I am far, far, faaaarrrr from perfect. I don't expect anyone else to be either, but I guess I am looking for something very special in a friendship. Maybe I am expecting too much? I am an absolute romantic, always have been, I think I always will be. Maybe it's the literature lover in me or something or whatever but I had the same expectation for a romantic partner, I met my husband, it was exactly how I always imagined it and better, the feeling was, undoubtable. Mind blowing.

    Someone once said, a quote I read, it went something along the lines of, basically, friendship is like the romantic love of your life, but without sex. That's true, deep friendship. Now, if finding your romantic soulmate is very rare and very lucky, with that kind of philosophy in my mind, it would be pretty rare and unlikely to be lucky enough to have both the love of my life in bed with me every night AND a friend who would jump in front of a bus for me in my phone book.

    I don't mean to be cynical here but, when I say a true friend I mean... I mean someone who would die for you. Remember when you were a kid, and you read books? And the friends together in these stories, they put themselves on the line. Not just, oh I was there for you once at the end of the phone at 3am when you split up with Roger whoever but I mean, really take a bullet for you? How many people have friends in their lives that they can say, y'know, we love each other deeply, I would take a bullet for that girl. I see all these women in groups and I doubt any of them would donate their appendix for the one beside them, let alone save their life or give up theirs in return.

    That aside, I'm not perfect. I've looked to myself plenty. I could do more and, people who know me could probably enlighten me a hella lot more on this. My husband definitely could, and does, he says I need to be reliable. I really acknowledge that and get that but, I have worked on that a lot, for a new friend in question, I have never been late for her once and I am still having doubts and the same old problems that always arise.

    I did have something close to true friendships when I was a child. I would spend whole summers with one girl, summer after summer. We shared secrets, we told each other what was in our heart. I cried every time she had to go back to the other side of the country. I would fall into a deep depression when she left. I always thought about her, I admired and respected her insanely. I wanted to be her! I looked up to her. She inspired me. I even used to take on her accent when she came for the summers. My Dad would tease me about it.

    Then we grew up and well, I will always regret this but after years and years of being apart, never knowing what she was doing or who she was seeing or how her life had turned out (she was drop dead gorgeous and over 6 foot tall, she went to be a model in New York, etc, she had a wild life). Well, she tried to re-touch with me and I had just fallen in love. I was completely, and utterly, obsessively wrapped up with my boyfriend then to be my now husband. I made an excuse to cut our meeting short. She looked so wounded. I think she knew me enough to know I just wanted to be somewhere else. I think she felt second place for the first time ever. I will always, always regret that.

    I tried to contact her a year ago. It's bizarre but even living countries apart and never talking our lives have almost taken an identical turn. And we've both done some pretty out of the ordinary things. We really were kindred spirits. And there goes the only girl I ever had a true friendship with.

    Now, as an adult woman, I guess I am trying to find Natasha again. But my Tish is nowhere to be found and, the women I meet, they don't love me and I don't love them. That's all it boils down to with me. Maybe that sounds weird but I guess that is honestly how I feel.

    Lo x
    Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I donít think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .

    Maybe your need for romance and intimacy was / is not met by family of origin so you want it met by friends?

  3. #23
    Gold Member mylolita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Batya33
    I really really hate hearing the cliche about women being catty and gossipy. Some individuals act like that. Men and women. I think it's great to dare to be different and unconventional and it depends how you share those aspects of yourself with people -nothing to do with gender. I feel uncomfortable around people who try to prove to me how unusual/unconventional they are just like I find it annoying when people make assumptions about my lifestyle (from financial to career to my decision to be home full time for my child for several years, to my being single till I was in my late 30s, etc etc). Why does it matter whether you're conventional or not and might you be assuming certain individuals are conventional without really getting to know them?

    Example. I met a mom a few years ago. So not my type. Dresses to the nines just to go to the darn playground, seemed kind of ditzy/materialistic. But my son liked her son so I was pleasant to her. One day she invited me to her house and my child for a playdate. She invited me to sit down with her and made us tea and offered me chocolate (ok I already now loved her lol). And sitting there at that small table, one on one, sipping tea she told me about her background, her life before marriage, her home country, how she met her husband -and I realized -wow - I totally misjudged her, made assumptions. In fact she'd told me she was going to try her hand at painting and I remember feeling dubious about her ambition/drive -well, she told me she sold many paintings at one of our premiere festivals a few months ago. And showed me her work with humility and pride -the best combination. I am sorry I misjudged her, glad I never let that affect how I treated her, glad I gave it a chance . No we are not besties now. Part of that is logistics but i saw her last month and we hugged and she was just so thoughtful again. I think it just takes time for her to warm up or something. And English is not her first language.

    I have a number of close friends for many years. No I didn't know right away but the ones I met when I was very young I kind of did in that young girl/teenager way. And I've met other women who I thought would be BFF material and....they were not. It's like dating kind of. We relocated 9 years ago from the city I'd lived in 43 years and starting over is really hard -still is!

    I think you should challenge some of your assumptions and get down to basics more - and find activities where you're likely to meet like minded people.
    Hit Batya,

    Thank you for your response.

    The thing is, I don't try to be different or kind of put out there that I am - it's just the way I am. And, I'm not saying, oooo I'm SOosoosOOOoOOoo different WoowooOOOOooOO! I'm not, in the grand scheme of things. If you go into London, other big cities, people like me, with my lifestyle choices, my thoughts maybe, our tastes are common as anything. But, I don't live in a huge city. I live in a very traditional place that is quite backwards and not in the quaint way either. So, mine and my husbands lifestyle choices are classed as "out there" and, when you're really not the norm here, it stands out like a sore thumb. Trust me, I try to fit IN. I do NOT advertise in anyway any differences. But I won't try and be something I'm not. I will tell when asked, I speak my mind in conversation. I won't hide.

    Our house in its self is a bit of a mind bending for people round here. I always joke to my husband that once they've entered "The Vault" they either run and never return again (it's happened, and lots) or, they keep coming because they find it "different" and kind of glamorous.

    My husband is an antiques and art dealer and the house is a 4 story Georgian town house full of 20th century art and antiques but, it's extremely modern in it's bathroom and kitchen. The kitchen consists of solely a marble island that's 20 foot long. People walk past it, kind of look and go, "Is that a kitchen?" And then when we sit there they don't know what to do.

    I'm not being a d**k here, I'm really not but, where we're living now, people don't interior decorate like this. They don't have an interior designer. Not that I would ever tell anyone we ever used one. Or had friends that were one. Or that our house had been featured in a magazine.

    When people ask about my past, women I should say, and I just pop out with I used to be a lap dance, y'know, stripped off naked for thousands of men, for money, and loved it - I don't say it like that of course but you can see them taking steps out the door. So if the house doesn't do it, that does.

    And then if they get past the stripping past when on the surface I seem so, kind of, open shirt, lipstick, cigarette trousers and heels normal, they freak out at the fact I'm only 29 but highly conservative, in most of my political beliefs and life beliefs. They freak out and think I am some downtrodden servant to my husband who, by the way, hasn't washed a dish for 10 years, He doesn't lift a finger for ANY housework. Not even puts his socks back. Once. I do, everything. And I want too. But, that really offends a hella lotta women, you won't believe. Men go, ALRIGHT! Women go, oh my God, he's a pig.

    And then if THAT doesn't finish them off, they get to learn about our exotic sex club past, sharing partners etc and then they REALLY think he's a pig and woah.

    And then if THAT ONE doesn't finish them off, they see the car I drive and they just do a double take. And they get caught up in the financial gulf between us. And then they start making comments. If I say I'll get the coffee round a snide comment comes out like, "Well it's nothing when you have loads of money!!!!!" Get that one! What they don't realise is when we didn't have a bean I would scour our flat so that I could get enough change together so I could buy my friends a coffee and take a round!

    And then if THAT doesn't finish them off, they release I'm a stay at home mum and that I love it and I don't even want to work even though I could, and they freak out, because they say well, how am I fulfilled without a career? To be a slave to my husband and son? Forget the fact that that's highly offensive and incorrect anyway but, sorry, I'm apparently offending them just by living my life the way I want.

    And if THAT doesn't finish them off, they talk about their degrees etc and then they learn I had an offer from Oxford and they just think I'm eccentric and throwing it all away being a wife.

    And if THAT doesn't finish if off all the things they don't know just makes it too out there for them. For example, my husband is friends and also deals to some celebrities and royalty. I am not making this up. And it is so crazy to say that that, I don't even tell anyone, not a soul. To be honest, it's kinda out there so I hardly even discuss it with my own husband. We have had royalty at our house. Often.

    And there are plenty more crazy things in our life that makes it just, there's so much I could talk about that I don't because, I already feel so different in this place that, I just try and fly under the radar.

    And then I am kooky in conversation. I am a weird sense of humour. I mock myself all the time, they find that quite boyish I think and I go to make fun of them as well because I do it to myself and a lot of women I meet, they can't take jokes like that. So I don't make them anymore.

    And on top of that yes, I am a ditz. I am bad with time. I blurt things out a lot, I sometimes don't think before I speak. I sometimes get too personal before it's time.

    By the way, all these things are just offered to them within the first week. They either learn it from other people or after a year they slowly find it out.

    I am desperately trying not to judge people. I really am not. Look, I am putting it all out there. I wish I were lying, because, my life is so, that I don't even write half of it on my journal. In fact, I could never. I can't even write 10%. But, I feel like I can't be fully me. I give little pieces and people freak out.

    I am going to sound totally out of my mind, you probably think I am making this up, but we were at a members only club in London, my husband works there, in London that is, that's why we always used to be down there as a couple, this is a very, very exclusive club. I say no more. A long term friend of my husbands, we were having this EXACT conversation with him. He is gay. Him and his partner have been together for 20 years. They just married last year, we were at their wedding, along with other celebrities. Anyway, that aside, NO ONE knows about this by the way, not even my old best friend, but, after staying with them for the weekend, I received a card in the post and he had simply wrote:

    "Lola & D,
    To differences. We are different, and so are you. To being different."

    And this is coming from the most flamboyant gay man who has had the most crazy life you could imagine.

    I feel like I am doomed. I feel like, I either need the most plain prairie town in America or we need to live in a pent house in London but I feel like our in-between at the moment is a very, very hard place. We can't make friends, and when I do, I can't keep them. The divide is too great. It's not even just our lifestyle. It's like our minds don't meet. Maybe that is my fault. I can't quite work it out. Still struggling.

    Lo x

  4. #24
    Super Moderator Capricorn3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ~Seraphim ~
    Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I donít think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .
    OP, when you say "a friend who would die for you" ... is that romanticising things a little too much? Kinda like a movie friendship. I mean, I DO Have very close long term friendships with females, but I don't think it's to the point where they, or I, would die for them.

  5.  

  6. #25
    Gold Member mylolita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ~Seraphim ~
    Maybe you expect too much from a friend? I donít think I would die for a friend. My son, absolutely. My husband, my mother, my brother, yes .

    Maybe your need for romance and intimacy was / is not met by family of origin so you want it met by friends?
    Hi Seraphim,

    I always thought that was what true friendship was? Maybe I really am too romantic!

    I tell you honestly, my old best friend, if someone had gone to hurt her, I would've put myself in front of that girl. I swear it on my life. And then I learn the truth about her 16 years down the line.

    Fool me once!

    Maybe I am just a very impassioned thinking and this is too intense! Maybe I should be looking for an acquaintance to talk with, have coffee, chat, but a deep, life long friendship? Maybe searching for the friendship I am looking for is one in a million.

    Lo x

  7. #26
    Platinum Member itsallgrand's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread!

    I do value my female friendships tremendously. As I do my male friendships. I actually find for myself, with the men in my life, that's where they are often dragging feelings out of me. While with women, many are very focused on family. And that focus on family and seeing themselves as the glue that holds everyone together has been my biggest challenge with finding the right kind of friendships for me. It drives me nuts when all a person can talk about is that, and when they use it as an excuse ( yes, a convienent excuse ) to not put time and effort into friends and other things we could actually share in values and activities. I have a lot of respect for the fact that when you have a family, they will be number one priority. What I'm talking about here is people who become one dimensional and blame it on having these hats to wear.
    I've always, and still do, get along best with those who share my values. Example: a female friend who is a single mom . Not that she planned it that way, but the relationship wasn't good, they co parent now. She works full time. She is involved in so many interesting little hobbies and sports. She helps other people out, she's reliable and just a solid awesome person.
    Contrast this with an acquaintance of mine who tried to befriend me when she heard we were wanting to start a family. She has never worked , even volunteer, in her life for more than bits and pieces. She is not active, doesn't like sports or the outdoors. She uses her kids and husband as her excuse why she can never get together for anything - she invited me for coffee at her house, then backtracked, which turned out to be fine for me as I didn't have to decline. She doesn't like to read, travel, cook new foods or try them... just there's zero value or interest connection there for me. She may be a decent person but she seems to form friendships just based on who she can talk to about her family. I value family but I don't think it is ever the center of who I am as an individual .

    Long rant to say you have to find the click, and a lot of it is as meow stayed, knowing what's meaningful to you and also what you bring.

  8. #27
    Bronze Member BecxyRex's Avatar
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    I find it hard to find the type of friendship you're describing after high school or college. Most people have their own lives at this point (relationships, children, etc.) and don't have the time, energy or need to dive right into something that deep. I absolutely understand what you mean though. I have two very good female friends I made in high school (I'm 32) and our friendship would probably be close to what you're seeking, maybe minus the dying for one another. We live on different continents unfortunately, but regularly talk on the phone. I don't think our friendship would have had a chance to become quite this deep had we met as adults now.
    I've always had a good mix of males and females in my friend circle, but find it harder to initially form a bond with women. I find it easier to deepen friendships with women though, once you overcome that initial hurdle. For me it's incredibly hard to overlook this 3rd wave feminism craze that seems to be prominent everywhere. It's not my mindset, but it seems a crime to not want to bash men for being men or "mansplaining". Ugh, it's so annoying... It doesn't seem easy to find someone who's not obsessed with this.

  9. #28
    Gold Member mylolita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Capricorn3
    OP, when you say "a friend who would die for you" ... is that romanticising things a little too much? Kinda like a movie friendship. I mean, I DO Have very close long term friendships with females, but I don't think it's to the point where they, or I, would die for them.
    Maybe I am Capricorn - it does sound extremely dramatic wrote down like that doesn't it!

    I guess I am a very, very romantic kinda girl. Maybe that's part of it, maybe I'm a bit too intense? I don't try to be! Anyway, these are my private thoughts, nothing that I discuss with anyone, especially girls I meet for coffee! God! HA! Imagine that!

    What I should really say is I am looking for something exceptional and... I don't just want what I think is what most women have, a whole bunch of acquaintances they say are friends because they've known them for so long. I often look at these relationships and feel they're not friendships at all. But then again, I look at most peoples relationships with their wives, boyfriends, girlfriends etc and I think well, that's not true love either. So maybe my standards are darn high. I mean, when I go in with someone I am all in. But it is extremely rare.

    I think about my gorgeous Tish often and I hope she's okay. I would love to see her again. Y'know when you meet someone and you feel like minds have met?

    I think people may get the impression through my talking here that I think I'm smarter than everyone or something but honestly, it couldn't be further from the truth. I am decent in only a few minor things, the rest of life and practicalities - a complete dummy. Everyone outsmarts me there. That mind meeting you get, it's just another form of brilliant, human connection which I think is rare but you know when it happens. That happened to me and Natasha and it only proved to me we were so crazily similar in some ways with how similar our lives turned out, even after never speaking or hearing or seeing each other for the next 26 years. It was quite spooky.

    Never had another connection with a female friend like her again. I should be lucky I had such a good childhood friend, even if it was only over a few summers.

    Lo x

  10. #29
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    Here's my take on what you wrote. You're not that interested in getting to know people as people - their mundane and not so mundane details, what makes them tick, what inspires them, motivates them, bores them. You're focused on the fantasy of it, the romance of it - not because you actually want to put your lofty ideals into practice - but because it's a way you can avoid getting to know people as individuals and doing the daily work/effort to getting to know someone. You want to shock people even if you say you don't. Who cares what your home looks like and why are people you're just starting to get to know in your home anyway? Sure it's nice to invite people over -one of my close friends in our new city invited us over for a holiday meal the day we met -kind of adopted us - it was lovely.

    Maybe join some meetup groups focused on interior decorating since you seem to be into that and into what your house looks like and looks like to people who just see it. There are people who are very into that and into collecting art and antiques. And for the life of me why would you tell someone you're getting to know that you used to be a stripper? Unless she was I guess. Why are you sharing personal details about your sex life/past sex life if your goal is to get to know a potentially good friend? Why is it important to you to share all those details? Do you want to make sure she is into that too or do you just want to shock or perhaps sabotage a developing friendship?

    I made a new friend here some years ago -she used to be my neighbor. I will never forget the 4th or 5th time we met - we were chatting in her kitchen and we were talking a bit more personally and she said nicely "oh you know we'll talk more about that topic when we get to know each other better". I really respected her for saying that -for knowing her boundaries, for being discreet and for thinking that perhaps we would get closer. I didn't delve further into the topic. It's years later and we speak far more personally now (we have kids of similar ages so one of our early bonds was the playdate with the neighbor thing!). But it took awhile and I stayed the course and respected her boundaries.

    I am really not getting from all you wrote that you want to be a friend to someone and to have someone be a friend to you. Man or woman. I don't think your standards for friendship are too high. I think you don't have high enough standards when it comes to wanting people to feel comfortable in their own skin around you.

  11. #30
    Gold Member mylolita's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hollyj
    I think you are choosing the wrong friends.

    The first time a new friend gossips about another one of their friends, I move on- if they are talking about them, they are talking about me. If they are flaky, I move on. It can take time to develop good friendships, but it is well worth it. Most women do not gossip about their friends.

    Where are you meeting people?
    Hi Hollyj,

    Not to pass the buck but my husband says the same thing - he once said I need an "eccentric" - he said he thinks I would make great friends with one. He said I need someone who does their own thing and doesn't care what other people think or do. I would love those qualities in a friend but really anyone from any walk of life is absolutely dandy with me.

    I am a bit weird in my habits myself. Complete night owl, y'know, if I was writing an add for a friend it would be pretty strange. "29 year old happily married mother of 1 soon to be 2 seeking fly by the seat of your pants kinda I wanna stay at home a lot though girl who will come out for a 2am drive date and drink red bulls whilst listening to some good music and talking about shoes and why we love and hate them. Have a shopping addiction but I'm cheap. I'll never change that but willing to change other personality traits. Don't swear hardly ever but don't mind if you do at all, in fact I find it relaxing if you mouth your head off like a sailor."

    I'm meeting people at Mum groups, the library, friends of friends, local daytime tea dates, the park even! I strike up conversation and people talk to me very easily but it doesn't seem to get much past that.

    Lo x

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