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Thread: Who is right and wrong? Is it considered betrayal?

  1. #1

    Who is right and wrong? Is it considered betrayal?

    Hey all,

    Just trying to get some unbiased advice for a close friend of mine, heís called me and ask for help, and I am not exactly sure what to advise or tell him because I know the both of them so my opinion would likely be bias.
    Basically, he is asking me to tell him who I think is right and wrong, and if it is what he thinks is classified as betrayal.

    Sometime last week, my friend (refer as John) had a fight with his long term girlfriend (refer as Sally). After they had a fight, Sally went to her best friends (refer as David) house to talk. In the end Sally and David had talked over it, and to cheer her up, they snooped on the bed for some silly photos (not sex or any of that sort, as far as John is aware, David is homosexual).

    Later that night, David had uploaded those photos which was beamed across all of Sallys devices, and Sally left one of those at Johns and John had saw it by accident as it flashed onto the screen.
    The following day, John wanted to fix things up, and just briefly told Sally about what he saw because he was uncomfortable with it, but Sally brushed it off that he was homosexual anyhow and nothing happened. He got annoyed at this because in his culture, a female should not be on another guyís bed, however John decided to let it go and have it at that.

    Apparently today after its been fixed, he needed to log into her email to assist her with some paperwork that she requested him to do, but noticed that her email password was changed, and he suspects this was because John told Sally what he saw (despite that it was not John that had went to look for it). Sally told him that it was just out of spite that she changed it, but John is saying that the email that he had access to was only with paperwork, no personal accounts and other things is attached, and now he is thinking if she has more things to hide and asking me for help.

    He then also asked me what he thought on this previous scenario. He has her on Snapchat which she is aware that he looks at (on the stories and personal messages). She is on this everyday (I know this as I work with her) and he actually asked her why there was nothing for the last 2 months, and asked her if she had blocked him. She told him that she did block him on the stories because she is taking photos with her niece and other friends that John doesnít particularly like, and that to keep everything at peace she blocked him on it.

    He tells me that he feels that he was betrayed and that she knew fully that he didnít like it, and rather to avoid doing it, she did it anyways but just hid it from him. I can see their arguments from both ways that;

    1. John feels he is betrayed, because she purposely went to hide this and block him so he doesnít know
    2. Sally feels this was the right thing to do, because she isnít doing anything wrong with her niece and friends, itís just that John doesnít like them so she blocked him and didnít tell him

    Now John doesnít know what to do because he feels that there is no longer any trust, he thinks hiding the Snapchat thing as well as the photos with David was in some sense a betrayal, and that now he found out about the email password change, he is all confused because he thinks she changed it because she has things to hide (and suspects it is across all the other platform, they used to share passwords)

    Knowing the both of them for years, it is hard to give either of them an unbiased opinion, so would you say Johnny is just over-reacting, or is Sally in the wrong? Is what is described here considered betrayal?

  2. #2
    Platinum Member j.man's Avatar
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    Johnny needs to grow up. I can respect not being comfortable cuddling up and looking at pictures in bed with another man, even if he's gay, but if that's their dynamic, it is what it is. Also, the level of entitlement he feels to her privacy and to police her social media activity is beyond controlling.

    Life PROTIP: If you want people to be honest and forthright with you, foster conditions which are conducive to just that. I can't necessarily excuse her lying or blocking him, but you don't need to be the ghost of Ms. Cleo to see that one coming when someone begs it by being as big an ass as your friend. Personally, I'd rather she just dumped him, but I can see this drama lasting.

  3. #3
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    I don't understand why he would be upset about the pics with the gay dude.

    John sounds like kind of an azz. Why doesn't John get along with anyone? He sounds like he is the problem.

    How often does he pull this kind of stuff? What was their fight about?

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    John sounds like an insecure control freak. However, they should just break up.

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  6. #5
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    Agreed. John is FAR too controlling. Why is he giving her a hard time about hanging out with her gay friend or nieces?

    Where Sally is going wrong, though, IMO - is that she is trying to avoid the fights by blocking him and trying to edit what he sees. Some fights need to be had. I donít think she is doing anything wrong re: her time with her friend, for example, but I do think that she should stand in her truth and have the argument. If that leads to a breakup - so be it.

    Trust goes both ways, though. If John wants Sally to trust him and not block him everywhere, she needs to be able to trust that he wonít freak out about every little thing. If he can show that he is trustworthy, it doesnít sound like she generally has a problem with being open, etc. (after all - he has her passwords and everything...)

  7. #6
    Platinum Member IAmFCA's Avatar
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    I understand where John is coming from, because what he is observing feels like a change in her behavior that is consistently pointing away from the relationship.

    John is right, but for the wrong reasons.

    Sally is indeed finding avenues to express herself away from the relationship, because within the relationship she is under John's oversight. Oversight is inappropriate and oppressive. Sally does not mean to be hiding things, and John doesn't mean to be accusing her of betrayal -- but they each have made these choices for the same reason and that reason will kill (is killing) this relationship. But it doesn't have to be that way.

    Sally and John share the same fundamental issue: neither trusts that they are loved by the other, not as much as they would like. And, perhaps worse, neither is willing to be fully authentic, if that means risking losing the relationship. Ironically, turn these sentences inside out and you have two people who want more than anything to be loved by the other and to feel secure in their commitment to each other.

    Lesson 1: Be yourselves. Accept that your partner will not like all of your parts. Accept that you do not like all of your parts.
    Lesson 2: Accept that you each have different paths to walk, and therefore what is right for one of you sometimes isn't right for the other one. Give each other room to make choices that differ from what you would choose. Give each other room to make mistakes.
    Lesson 3: Appreciate what you can in yourself and in your partner. Be kind. Apologize often. Wear rose colored glasses when it comes to your partner. It is actually GOOD to do this and is a key aspect of relationships that last a lifetime.
    Lesson 4: Forget right/wrong and replace it with effective/ineffective. See all behaviors as addressing a need of some kind. Choose the most effective way to address those needs, where most effective might mean "behaviors that reflect respect for yourself and others." Accept that your definition of what behaviors meet this standard will be different and will change over time. Its okay.

    John- Forget about David. Sure, it was familiar behavior and unbecoming in more professional circles and/or certain cultures. So what. Let it go. Learn from it that Sally needs a safe place to express herself without judgment, a place where she can relax and feel accepted and appreciated.

    Sally, let John see you on IG. John does not get to pick your friends. If he expresses disapproval, say "I know, they're not for you." Kiss him on the forehead and think nothing more of it. But do not hide yourself from your bf; instead, expect to be loved as your whole self. Stand behind that by being your whole self every day. No hiding.

    Both John and Sally, consider having separate passwords. Readily unlock things for the other one, but let the separate passwords be a soft barrier. A reminder that you are separate people.

  8. #7
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    Just an aside, it is a good idea to change one's email password regularly. Not to avoid snooping BFs (although that could be considered a plus), but because the risk of hacking and identity theft is a real thing to worry about.

  9. #8
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    John's overly controlling. There's nobody safer for a girl to cuddle up with than a gay male friend - safe because you KNOW nothing's going to happen.

    The only reason Sally's hiding things from John is that she knows just being herself, and have normal relationships with ordinary people, will likely end in a fight. There's nothing wrong with what Sally's actually doing - except that in John's world, this is a betrayal because he doesn't want her to do it, and he feels entitled to tell her what to do. There's nothing in the post to suggest that it's hurting him in any way, except that she isn't obeying him. This kind of policing of her contacts is NOT appropriate in an adult relationship.

    Where Sally's going wrong is actually giving this guy access to her accounts in the first place - it's obvious from the post that he feels entitled to have her passwords, too. If she isn't handing them over, it's because she's got something to hide, in his world. This, again, is not appropriate in an adult relationship.

    In healthy relationships, each person respects the privacy of the other. This is also respecting the fact that they are separate people, and that one person doesn't have the right to control the other. In fact, some of John's behaviours are typical of abusive relationships. I've tried in the past to make relationships like this work, with predictable results, and if I were Sally I'd be running like the wind.

    So, if you really want to be a friend to John - don't collude with his destructive behaviour. Let him know that they are both adults and that he has no right to try and control her like that. If this is part of a general pattern, e.g. does he tell her what to wear, who she can go out with, does he check up on her if she's out without him - then do a bit of research on emotional abuse.

  10. #9
    Gold Member thisisrichey's Avatar
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    bad situation all around.
    The question is much more - when Sally granted John access to her accounts - was it because she wanted to and it truly was for "shared info" between the two? Or was it bedause John demanded it? That is the key to answering most of the questions today:

    1. If john demanded it and that's why Sally even gave him a password to access her info - then John is a over-controlling and unhealthy here (no trust of Sally).
    2. If it was an agreeable mutual thing and Sally is now banning him, cutting him off, etc. - then it makes her look like she is hiding something and very possibly betraying John.

    So it all comes back to why that initial account was shared with John having access.

  11. #10
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    John is wrong and he sucks. I agree with all the people saying he's controlling.

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