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Hi all. Although I looked to this forum to help me through a tough time of separation and divorce, it's been a long while since I was on here, since up til now I've been in a pretty good place, re-married for the last 7 years. But I'm recently feeling like I'm getting to the end of my rope.

We both have adult children, mine grown and married with families of their own, her two sons in their mid-20's. One has been through college and is working and living with his dad. The other is 27, has been "in college" (taking classes part-time) for the last 8 years, and living with us off and on, but mostly on. This last time he moved back because the roommate moved in with his girlfriend. He said he would only be with us 6 months, so he could get through his classes and get his job established. He had originally agreed to pay us $150/month board, but that evaporated after the first 3 months.

It's been 2 years now and he's still here. I have been getting very frustrated with his lack of ambition, his taking freely of our resources, and his general slovenness and lack of respect for our property. For the last 3 or 4 months real estate has been slow and my wife hasn't brought in an income, so we're living solely on my income. Even though my wife has shared the same frustration with him and agrees she's ready for him to go, any time I bring my feelings of frustration with my wife she gets upset, doesn't want to talk about it, and reminds me that her parent kicked her out when she was 19, and she vowed never to do that to her kids.

I've spoken to the son, and let him know I'm at the end, and that he's overstayed his welcome with me. Of course, my wife won't get behind me on this, so I spend alot of time in silent frustration, sleepless nights and just being quiet.

Just today I suggested we give the son 2-1/2 months to find his own place and offer to help pay for his first months rent. My wife said no, and that she doesn't want to talk about it.

 

I've let her know how frustrated I am, and that I'm getting fed up and at the end of my patience, she acknowledges that it's threatening our relationship but won't actually do anything about it, and won't convey my feelings to him.

 

After our "talks" I walk away very frustrated and "shut down". I recognize the same feelings I had that led to the end of my 30 year marriage. Except this time, I'm not as apt to live feeling this way as long as I did the first time. I guess I just need some help sorting through this and coming to a resolution, if just within myself.

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Well, does she realize that she is abusing her son by enabling his unmotivation and slovenly attitude? By allowing him to stay there and coast on room and board he doesn't have to pay for, she is stagnating him from growing up and being any kind of man that a good woman would want.

 

Maybe you ought to frame your discontent with things that way instead of making it about you and how you feel.???

 

She has a codependent relationship with her son and she is ruining any chance he may have to grow up and be self-sufficient.

 

Below is a link explaining the difference between dysfunctional and healthy "Helping." Your wife is enabling in a very unhealthy way.

 

https://sharonmartincounseling.com/understanding-codependency-enabling/

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There is a saying that helping your child too much is a form of abuse. Strong words but true if you think about it.

 

Our role as a parent is to teach children to be responsible, functional and able to take care of themselves. It's a little bit of irony that we want to instill in them the desire to leave. If we've accomplished these things, then we are successful parents

 

Enabling your child and providing for them when they are capable of providing for themselves is in fact crippling them.

 

A perfect case in point, that your wife is in someway exercising a wrong from her past and believing she can soothe that hurt by allowing her son to schmooze off of you. That's a self serving and not helpful to her son or her marriage to you.

 

You either come up with a different approach that she can hear, or tell her that you two need couples counseling to navigate this.

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You really have to separate issues going on here.

 

First is that when you take on an SO with children, they are a package deal for better or for worse. In other words, you do have to account for the fact that life happens and things can go sideways for all kinds of reasons and you will need to care take whether you like it or not. If you aren't willing, better date only women without children.

 

Second thing is how you are approaching this. You are creating a fight you cannot win. If I said to you, "It's either me or your kids." what would you choose? If you are honest, the answer is a no brainer. You'll choose your children and send me packing. This is what you are pitching to your wife. You have got to take a completely different approach, an opposite approach from what you are doing. Instead of stewing in your frustrations, show some compassion and ask her "how can we help your son become more successful and live a better life, be happier?" If you take that approach, she might open up to ideas that ultimately lead to you getting the life that you want, aka him out of the house. You need to take the same approach with her son. Instead of telling him how you are fed up with him because he is such a louse and a loser, ask what life does he want, how can you help him achieve it. Doubt the son is enjoying this situation either, but I would bet he doesn't see a way out himself. Don't focus on hate and "kicking out", focus more on selling solutions to both of them.

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I have told her that she is holding him back, and enabling his lifestyle. She admits that, but I think her obligation to right some past wrong in his upbringing holds her back.

Even today I tried to put it in a positive light, by suggesting giving him a deadline - April 30 - and offering money to end his first months rent. She refused to "do that to him", but I told her giving him a deadline would set a goal for him, as opposed to just putting pressure on him.

But that's when she gave me the stone wall, leaving me frustrated and withdrawn.

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I have told her that she is holding him back, and enabling his lifestyle. She admits that, but I think her obligation to right some past wrong in his upbringing holds her back.

Even today I tried to put it in a positive light, by suggesting giving him a deadline - April 30 - and offering money to end his first months rent. She refused to "do that to him", but I told her giving him a deadline would set a goal for him, as opposed to just putting pressure on him.

But that's when she gave me the stone wall, leaving me frustrated and withdrawn.

Tell her to stop projecting her own hurt child onto him. I know I’m being rough now but she has pretty much made him a useless member of society because of her own hurt inner child . She needs to address this in therapy and stop projecting onto her child . And then she needs to tell him to get a life by a total concrete time and then force him out .

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I am the sibling of a son who was parented in a similar backwards manner. He is about 60 now, and no more able to get along in the world than as a younger man. What everyone overlooked was the significant impact of adhd, in his case, which has gone untreated. There are other dynamics too, of course. My point is, we talk as adults about the importance of forcing people out, of not supporting them when they are adults. We forget about the importance of feeling love and acceptance, the difficulty of getting by without the skills to do so.

 

Yes, the son needs to move out. My suggestion, though, is to have these conversations from a place of love and acceptance, instead of anger and resentment.

 

Son needs to learn to fail. Failure is an extraordinarily important skill. Son needs to fail, and find love and acceptance at home - in the midst of failure and without a bailout. This requires significant emotional discipline because failure is hard to watch without feeling pain and frustration. It is easier if you actually believe that he will find his way, in his own way, on his own. Then failure can be seen as his path to success, somehow.

 

Yes, son will be angry and who knows what. Avoid taking the bait. Apologize for any anger previously expressed. "I love you and I want to see you on your own, finding your way, living YOUR life YOUR way. It takes practice. It is time for you to make it happen. We believe in you. I believe in you."

 

Give a date, change the locks afterwards.

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I stayed up half the night the other night, thinking - or maybe stewing about this. It's where I came up with the deadline. April 30, money for first months rent on the positive side. On the stern side, let him know the locks get changed on May 1, ready or not.

The wife doesn't agree.

 

As far as counseling, it carries a big negative connotation for my wife as well as me. We both had spouses that did not respond to counseling and ultimately led to our divorces.

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I am the sibling of a son who was parented in a similar backwards manner. He is about 60 now, and no more able to get along in the world than as a younger man. What everyone overlooked was the significant impact of adhd, in his case, which has gone untreated.

 

 

The kid does have anxiety issues for which he has finally acknowledged and is on meds and counseling for. But that's where his mom is over compensating and trying to shield him. She acknowledges that she may be hurting more than helping, but can't bring herself to cut the apron strings.

 

I don't know about all that but I do know I don't like feeling like my god nature and generosity are being taken advantage of. Once I start feeling like that...well, here I am..

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I stayed up half the night the other night, thinking - or maybe stewing about this. It's where I came up with the deadline. April 30, money for first months rent on the positive side. On the stern side, let him know the locks get changed on May 1, ready or not.

The wife doesn't agree.

 

As far as counseling, it carries a big negative connotation for my wife as well as me. We both had spouses that did not respond to counseling and ultimately led to our divorces.

 

So if you two responded to counseling and your spouses didn't - then good news, the two people who responded will be present! There is such thing as family counseling. My family went when my brother went through an extremely angry phase maybe around 9th grade. He was an absolute terror - blamed me and my sisters for us moving and going to a new school (one of my parents transferred jobs so it was none of our doing), to the point where he started getting physically aggressive. We needed everyone to be on board to talk things out. I think that you need to sit in front of a moderator to talk this out - for her to present her reasons and you to present yours and come to an agreement that you both agree with in front of a neutral third party. If you don't, she is going to choose her son over you and your marriage will crumble and he will live in your basement for life. you have been more than reasonable and your wife won't be a united front with you. And she won't agree that he can stay as long as he is working, right?

 

Does the son have any sort of learning disability?

 

Are you prepared to move to a place with an in-law apartment for the son to live?

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The kid does have anxiety issues for which he has finally acknowledged and is on meds and counseling for. But that's where his mom is over compensating and trying to shield him. She acknowledges that she may be hurting more than helping, but can't bring herself to cut the apron strings.

 

I don't know about all that but I do know I don't like feeling like my god nature and generosity are being taken advantage of. Once I start feeling like that...well, here I am..

 

Will his father take him?

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I have told her that she is holding him back, and enabling his lifestyle. She admits that, but I think her obligation to right some past wrong in his upbringing holds her back.

Even today I tried to put it in a positive light, by suggesting giving him a deadline - April 30 - and offering money to end his first months rent. She refused to "do that to him", but I told her giving him a deadline would set a goal for him, as opposed to just putting pressure on him.

But that's when she gave me the stone wall, leaving me frustrated and withdrawn.

 

She's not hearing you. You're coming across as someone who is being some kind of monster towards her son. Show her the link (and google for more) on dysfunctional helping.

 

Buy her the book in the link below:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Unhealthy-Helping-Psychological-Codependence-Dysfunctional-ebook/dp/B0100RT15C

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The kid does have anxiety issues for which he has finally acknowledged and is on meds and counseling for. But that's where his mom is over compensating and trying to shield him. She acknowledges that she may be hurting more than helping, but can't bring herself to cut the apron strings.

 

I don't know about all that but I do know I don't like feeling like my god nature and generosity are being taken advantage of. Once I start feeling like that...well, here I am..

 

Maybe mom will be helped by reframing her thoughts. "cut the apron strings" is an emotion of letting go. Yet her apron strings will never go away.

 

She isn't letting go. she is stretching to include him in her embrace even when moves into a different home etc.

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Will his father take him?
He cut ties with his father when he was 18, although he alleged is rebuilding the relationship. In one of my wifes more frustrated points she said to me that she done with her son and maybe it's the father's turn to keep him.

No learning disabilities, to the contrary, he's quite intelligent. He has just been in a pattern of underachievment since high school.

 

When we moved to this town, the son complained that it was too far from his work and school (both parttime) at the time (30 minute ride). He was 22 at the time. We gave him a 2 room suite with master bath and private entrance - you could call it an in law. He clasims he doesnt like it here, feels uncomfortable, cant wait to move out, etc. He moved out a couple times, only to return 8 to 10 months later. This last time we reduced his space to one room, although he still has the master bath and private entrance. Never once has he expressed any gratitude, and has never offered to help even though we're renovating the place all around him.

 

I ran into him in the kitchen at about 11 last night while up getting aspirin for myself. He of course was getting a plate of food (he waits til we've gone to bed to get food).

I asked him if he had thought about what I had told him about moving out and he just shrugged and said not really. So I gave him my offer - out by 4/30, help with his 1st months rent. I asked for feedback and he just stonewalled me so I lost it. I told him he was riding on my back while he took his time with college courses, and now has taken what amounts to a volunteer job (Americorp). He got upset and walked away but I kind of yelled after him.

His mom heard and came down, and it got heated. Not sure where we're at at this point since I slept on the couch.

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He sounds quite spoiled. Sadly you seem outnumbered and dealing with all emotion and zero logic, no matter the fairness and well thought out your offers are..

 

Since legally you can't do anything (without your wife losing it), it may be best to consult a psychologist on this. Do it privately and confidentially. Get some navigation and coping tips for this.

 

It seems every approach is met with a defiant oppositional stance by the son and an overprotective, overindulgent stance by your wife. All of this is of course psychological in nature since all your offers are beyond reasonable. So that will be the way you'll have to fight this mess.

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OP,

 

Try to find a path inside you that allows you to communicate without anger.

 

You can't control him. Never could, never will, it isn't the goal. Reminding him how much of a burden he is to you - that doesn't help either. Clearly he resents you same as you resent him, and I can see why. Try sticking to the facts, as if he were a proper tenant. The agreement was rent, he hasn't paid it, therefore, he may not continue to occupy the residence. Perhaps put it in writing, so its clear.

 

Then, leave it alone. You change locks April 1; you've done what you need to do. No need to lose your temper; be quiet or be kind when conversing.

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OP,

 

Try to find a path inside you that allows you to communicate without anger.

 

You can't control him. Never could, never will, it isn't the goal. Reminding him how much of a burden he is to you - that doesn't help either. Clearly he resents you same as you resent him, and I can see why. Try sticking to the facts, as if he were a proper tenant. The agreement was rent, he hasn't paid it, therefore, he may not continue to occupy the residence. Perhaps put it in writing, so its clear.

 

Then, leave it alone. You change locks April 1; you've done what you need to do. No need to lose your temper; be quiet or be kind when conversing.

I agree he is like any other lodger. He needs to pay his rent and on time. My son started paying rent the month after he turned 18. He gets $972 for his disability. $300 of which they give him as a rent payment. Of the $972 he pays me $450 . $300 for rent and $150 for his cell phone. He is 21 now and never missed a payment. Out of the rest of his money he pays his student loan and clothes and toiletries and entertainment.

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I have told her that she is holding him back, and enabling his lifestyle. She admits that, but I think her obligation to right some past wrong in his upbringing holds her back.

Even today I tried to put it in a positive light, by suggesting giving him a deadline - April 30 - and offering money to end his first months rent. She refused to "do that to him", but I told her giving him a deadline would set a goal for him, as opposed to just putting pressure on him.

But that's when she gave me the stone wall, leaving me frustrated and withdrawn.

 

Oy.....but you aren't putting a positive light on anything. You are still very much taking on the role of the "evil" step father trying to kick her baby out into the street and THAT is triggering all kinds of past emotional and psychological trauma and damage for your wife, so round and round you go.

 

Look, rationally, you are giving a good offer. However, this isn't about reason, but heated emotions and the emotional reaction is that you are kicking him out, so you are getting all this resistance and resentment right back at you.

 

Stop your own fixation on how you want him out and how put out you are by this guy. I mean really. Let's talk facts. He lives in guest quarters. That costs you nothing. He eats food. OK, that does cost but that's about it.

 

Your timing is awful too. Now that the wife is down financially, you choose to go on attack and dictate your way or the highway. You are just adding to conflict and making yourself look like an abusive azz. My money now, so I'm the big boss and I hate your son. That's the message you are sending to your wife. Don't be surprised if she is the one who ends up filing for divorce and I can promise you it will cost you a whole lot more than food that he eats.

 

I will say this again. Your intent is correct. Your approach is completely wrong and set up to get you nowhere but into severe conflict. Back off and change your tactics. Stop trying to push him out and ask your wife how you can help instead. Honestly, you are all so entrenched in this conflict that nobody can see anything beyond their own emotions, you too OP. Do go and talk with a family counselor and get someone to essentially mediate and help you all resolve conflict in a healthier way. You all are way too entrenched in your own points of view and emotions to navigate this on your own at this point.

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Oy.....but you aren't putting a positive light on anything. You are still very much taking on the role of the "evil" step father trying to kick her baby out into the street and THAT is triggering all kinds of past emotional and psychological trauma and damage for your wife, so round and round you go.

 

Look, rationally, you are giving a good offer. However, this isn't about reason, but heated emotions and the emotional reaction is that you are kicking him out, so you are getting all this resistance and resentment right back at you.

 

Stop your own fixation on how you want him out and how put out you are by this guy. I mean really. Let's talk facts. He lives in guest quarters. That costs you nothing. He eats food. OK, that does cost but that's about it.

 

Your timing is awful too. Now that the wife is down financially, you choose to go on attack and dictate your way or the highway. You are just adding to conflict and making yourself look like an abusive azz. My money now, so I'm the big boss and I hate your son. That's the message you are sending to your wife. Don't be surprised if she is the one who ends up filing for divorce and I can promise you it will cost you a whole lot more than food that he eats.

 

I will say this again. Your intent is correct. Your approach is completely wrong and set up to get you nowhere but into severe conflict. Back off and change your tactics. Stop trying to push him out and ask your wife how you can help instead. Honestly, you are all so entrenched in this conflict that nobody can see anything beyond their own emotions, you too OP. Do go and talk with a family counselor and get someone to essentially mediate and help you all resolve conflict in a healthier way. You all are way too entrenched in your own points of view and emotions to navigate this on your own at this point.

 

This is an excellent post. Heed this wisdom OP. Sometimes life is teaching us our priorities.

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