Liveless mariage?

Hello all this is my first time writing. I am a 36 y.o. male and married to a 32 y.o. female. We have been together for around 8 years and married for 3.

We've had an awesome start, where we wanted to be together all the time and couldn't get enough of each other. And it had been great for a very long time. We had arguments and fights, we're both passionate about stuff, but we handled it and for the majority of the relationship everything was peaches.

3 years ago we got married and started trying to become parents. We succeeded and now have 2 children. The oldest is a 2 year old.

Around halfway through the pregnancy of our oldest my wife started loosing sexual interest. She said it had to do with her feeling uneasy and bloated, so I could understand and tried not to make as much avances as I would normally. After the birth of our first we were not much intimate either and she became pregnant of our second. This pregnancy was fine but the birthing was horrible, I will spare the details but there was damage. So another good reason to not be together for a while in that way. But everything should be healed in a matter of weeks.

And of course having 2 small kids and both working takes up all the time. So we don't get a lot of time to ourselves. I want to clarify at this point that my question does not only concern physical intimacy.

Because of the busy lifes we have and the kids, we rarely get to do stuff together. And because of the practicality of the kids waking up at night and getting enough sleep ourselves, we sleep in different beds.

I don't know if it matters at this point. There are too many things at this point that make me feel more like relatives than spouses. I started noticing she never uses a word like hunny or whatever and when I asked her about, she said she never did. I'm not sure that I can recall one instance so she could be right. And than there is a lack of interest and intimacy like giving each other a kiss or a hug. We do still do that but just almost never. Sex has been off the table for the last couple of months. I recall once in something like 9 months and it was infrequent the 1,5 before that.

I feel we both have other roles than being married at the moment. We work and we are parents foremost and we don't get to do anything else. In our time off we spend most of the time with the kids doing fun stuff for them and or spend time with family. We don't go see a movie or dine out or whatever, there is just not any time to be together.

Arguments have also increased significantly, I feel in part because the relationship has changed. She says she cannot forget past arguments and stuff as it limits her ability to be (intimate) in a relationship. I feel taking advantage of the precious time we have and being together and being intimate might actually be beneficial to our relationship. But I can understand that the harsh arguments we have had can affect the psyche.

Do you guys have any idea what I am looking at here. Is my marriage dead or soon to be? Are we just going to be parents together? Has anyone ever experienced something similar?

You HAVE to make date time with one another. Sit down with her and talk about arrangements for a reliable baby sitter (your parents or hers perhaps?) and then you set aside at least one day/night together being husband and wife and you let go of being mommy and daddy for a few hours together.

If you are close to your parents or hers maybe they'll even take the kids overnight so you can take your WIFE away for an over-nighter. You are both stuck in mommy daddy mode and you've let life in general get in the way of your bond.

In addition to making time for each other, I think you should really look into this:

She says she cannot forget past arguments and stuff as it limits her ability to be (intimate) in a relationship.

I mean, that is LITERALLY an answer to your question. Maybe not the whole story or the answer you want to hear, but certainly something that shouldn't be ignored or minimized. Perhaps marriage counselling would provide a safe, neutral venue for discussion.

So I’ll go against the grain here. I’m not a fan of date night. I’m no good at night anymore. I spent many years going out at night and had a fairly exciting social life in a major city - including when my husband and I were dating and pre- kids. I am exhausted at night and I no longer want to have a big or late dinner (we’ve been married 10 years and are 52 with one almost 10 year old child). So what we do is spend time together every day - we both work from home a lot and we chat on and off and chat at night after our son goes to sleep. We hug and kiss every day and sex is less often than before we had our son but we both want that to change and I intend to make a lot more of an effort. But yes we’re on different schedules - I’m up around 6 because of my son and he’s a night owl who does his best work at night and sleeps in. I just am not interested in a forced “date “ and we have no family to help - never have. They were older / disabled when we had our son so not capable of helping our. Sitters are ok but it’s kind of a waste at night since I wouldn’t be any fun.

I just write all this because yes date nights are great for some couples and I’m tired of the “oh just leave your child overnight with family or get a sitter once a week”. Not so easy or practical in many situations.

So what I would do op is start to have times during the day where you have “datettes” - where you have a fun convo and hopefully your phone is put away. Get that connection back. Get back the reason you wanted to marry her. Even if you sleep separately which is fine try to cuddle for a few minutes at night.

Also invest in a cleaning service twice a month at least so she has more me time if that’s an issue. Good luck !

Then make it date morning. Certainly, to each their own. The point is they need to get out of mommy/daddy mode and into husband/wife/lover/companion mode once again. Everyone NEEDS a break from their kids once in a while and these two sound like they're past the rekindling stage at this point but at least they can try to get back the intimacy and emotional connection they once shared before the kids came along.

If you consider spending a romantic evening together as a "forced date" then no, it surely won't do anything to for you. Hopefully it WILL help to get that connection back for the two of them though.

Op: My husband's sister used to take our daughter for an overnight at least three times a year and either my mom and dad or the hubby's mom and dad babysat for us for a few hours once a month so we could spend some alone time together. It has worked out well for us and we remain happily connected for over 40 years now.

Batya

That was a well written response , I appreciated reading your insight . I’ll keep that in mind for my own life. Thanks !

Mom of a nearly 2 year old here, so I can sort of put myself in your shoes. Taking care of young children is very hard and straining on a relationship, so you are definitely not alone and none of this sounds beyond saving to me.

Can I ask what your roles are with child care? Is your wife stay at home and you go to work? How much childcare do you do when you’re home from work? Do you guys take turns tucking the little ones in or doing overnight feedings? I know how much sleep deprivation can affect my mood and my fiancé does a wonderful job trying to help with overnight wake ups as much as he can. I’ll tuck our daughter in at night, because he comes home later from work and mornings are his to spend time with her. During that time I get to take long baths or prepare lunch in peace and we both head out to work. I’d be incredibly overwhelmed, if he didn’t take over as much as he does, and I’m wondering if you give her these breaks as much as you can as well? If so, awesome! Keep doing that and try to limit her stress as much as you can. Maybe surprise her with a home cooked dinner or a bottle of wine and when both kids are asleep, just sit together and have a glass. It doesn’t need to be a full blown date night in my opinion, unless grandparents can take the kids for a night?

The fact that she sounds a bit resentful about past arguments stands out to me as well. Have you given her a chance to talk about how these arguments still affect her? And I mean, actually let her talk and just listen? Understand her side without getting defensive and not trying to fix the issue? I find that I feel so much better sometimes, if my fiancé just lets me talk about something that bugs me without interjecting. We usually preface this with “hey I’d love for you to listen to me for a bit if you can. It’ll make me feel much better.” Goes both ways.

Do you Tell her how beautiful she is? Thank her for doing laundry, dishes, staying on top of doctors appointments, feeding schedules, lunches for the kids? Call her hunny and just give her a kiss randomly? I think trying to build in random little acts of kindness will help her open up to you. It might take a little while, so try not to feel let down if there’s no immediate result.

Being a mom to a toddler is so exhausting sometimes and being appreciated for what I do on a daily basis helps me stay connected in my relationship.

Then make it date morning. Certainly, to each their own. The point is they need to get out of mommy/daddy mode and into husband/wife/lover/companion mode once again. Everyone NEEDS a break from their kids once in a while and these two sound like they're past the rekindling stage at this point but at least they can try to get back the intimacy and emotional connection they once shared before the kids came along.

 

If you consider spending a romantic evening together as a "forced date" then no, it surely won't do anything to for you. Hopefully it WILL help to get that connection back for the two of them though.

 

Op: My husband's sister used to take our daughter for an overnight at least three times a year and either my mom and dad or the hubby's mom and dad babysat for us for a few hours once a month so we could spend some alone time together. It has worked out well for us and we remain happily connected for over 40 years now.

Yes definitely as I recommended. You're so very lucky you had family who could take your daughter overnight or babysat and who you trusted. We knew from the moment we started trying to conceive that would never be true for us ever despite many family members who loved us and our future child and still do - from a logistical and practical level it could never happen (other than my niece who was a part time mother's helper for certain times over two summers, during the day). I completely agree with "date your husband" and "be your husband's girlfriend" and having a break from the child . We're lucky in that for the most part our son is a good sleeper so after 8-8:30pm it's just us. But my husband works a lot at night and travels fairly regularly so that cuts in of course. I agree with making sure the connection survives having a child!

Yes definitely as I recommended. You're so very lucky you had family who could take your daughter overnight or babysat and who you trusted. We knew from the moment we started trying to conceive that would never be true for us ever despite many family members who loved us and our future child and still do - from a logistical and practical level it could never happen (other than my niece who was a part time mother's helper for certain times over two summers, during the day). I completely agree with "date your husband" and "be your husband's girlfriend" and having a break from the child . We're lucky in that for the most part our son is a good sleeper so after 8-8:30pm it's just us. But my husband works a lot at night and travels fairly regularly so that cuts in of course. I agree with making sure the connection survives having a child!

Yes we lived a short walk away from both sets of parents and my sister-in-law so we were very lucky. My SIL was my daycare when I went back to work as well so we had lots of support. :o)

Thank you all for responding!

Yeah we did the datenight thing for a bit when there was only our oldest. Our youngest still gets breastfed and wakes up irregularly at night. Frankly my wife does that entirely, while I attend to our oldest. He has nightmares and anxieties at the moment and also needs attention at night. This is also the reason why we can't really drop off the kids one night a week.

As far as the childcare and the household go, I work 5 days a week and my wife 4. She has one day to spend with the kids and in this time she also cleans and stuff. We pay for a professional daycare 3 days a week and my in-laws take care of the kids 1 day.

We also have a cleaner once every other week. I do the daily groceries and cook, she does the laundry. Apart from that we both take on other chores like the dishes, vacuuming and so on. The bigger chores like mopping the floors are either for her on her day she's not at work or for the cleaner.

I put the oldest to bed ( bath him every other night) and read to him every night, she attends to our youngest every night. There is hardly any time to spare either for each other or for ourselves. Common sense dictates that this will pass on as our youngest reaches an age where she's not as dependent and in need of breastfeeding.

But somewhere I fear this period is taking to long or will take to long for our relationship to get over it. I mean it feels like all the affection is gone, though we do have arguments, which have been getting more severe lately.

What are all the arguments about? You need marriage therapy asap to learn more about how to communicate, resolve conflicts and manage day to day life without this much stress.

What do you mean by "harsh arguments" Is there name calling? Finger pointing? Character assassinations? Blame shifting?

What you are looking at is a complete breakdown of trust and emotional intimacy and the misguided notion that your wife should simply put sex back on the table without resolving any conflicts or "harsh arguments".

She feels no connection to you. You are making yourself "the enemy" with all the arguing. She seems to be protecting herself by avoiding you, avoiding being hurt by you, avoiding intimacy with someone who is screaming and yelling at her and just getting through it for the sake of the kids by being in robot mode.

Arguments have also increased significantly. She says she cannot forget past arguments and stuff as it limits her ability to be (intimate) in a relationship.

 

I can understand that the harsh arguments we have had can affect the psyche.

What are all the arguments about? You need marriage therapy asap to learn more about how to communicate, resolve conflicts and manage day to day life without this much stress.

 

What do you mean by "harsh arguments" Is there name calling? Finger pointing? Character assassinations? Blame shifting?

 

What you are looking at is a complete breakdown of trust and emotional intimacy and the misguided notion that your wife should simply put sex back on the table without resolving any conflicts or "harsh arguments".

 

She feels no connection to you. You are making yourself "the enemy" with all the arguing. She seems to be protecting herself by avoiding you, avoiding being hurt by you, avoiding intimacy with someone who is screaming and yelling at her and just getting through it for the sake of the kids by being in robot mode.

And this was never just about sex, but about loosing each other. We are distant on so many levels now and we are both in some sort of autopilot mode. I do not expect her to just put sex on the table nor do I feel that solves everything. But if there isn't any intimacy at all it tends to get more autopilot by default.

We considered counseling but found we hardly have the financial means and really don't have the time for it. We both feel that it would be better to spend the money on quality time with the kids like holidays.

I read a book about high friction couples by a counselor but found it hard to apply to us. I do recognize the things in the book but find it hard to respond in the way I should. She does not really want to read the book, seeing it as she doesn't really have time to read. And I do think it's harder for to make time to do it, as I use public transport for example.

Do you think there is a way to recover from this with or without counseling?

Plenty of colleges, faith based groups, hospitals, community resources, etc offer free or inexpensive classes or sessions for couples.

A family falling apart and couples so broken down it's devolved in to mutual verbal abuse is not a DYI read a book on the commute situation. Sadly you seriously underestimate the peril you are in.

For you it's read a book, hop in bed. Her next step is probably the divorce lawyer. So if you think therapy is too expensive, try alimony, child support and losing 1/2 of all your assets 1/2 your house and 1/2 of your access to your kids. The book you should read is "Confessions of a Walk Away Wife" which describes how the ongoing anger and your denial could end up.

By harsh arguments I mean all of the above and both ways. From me to her and vice versa.

 

And this was never just about sex, but about loosing each other. We are distant on so many levels now and we are both in some sort of autopilot mode. I do not expect her to just put sex on the table nor do I feel that solves everything. But if there isn't any intimacy at all it tends to get more autopilot by default.

 

We considered counseling but found we hardly have the financial means and really don't have the time for it. We both feel that it would be better to spend the money on quality time with the kids like holidays.

 

I read a book about high friction couples by a counselor but found it hard to apply to us. I do recognize the things in the book but find it hard to respond in the way I should. She does not really want to read the book, seeing it as she doesn't really have time to read. And I do think it's harder for to make time to do it, as I use public transport for example.

 

Do you think there is a way to recover from this with or without counseling?

Those are things to consider. I will try and find out if there are different ways of getting help near me.

As far as the divorce part, we have both considered it in the recent past. However I think we both believe this is somehow temporary, because we hardly had any fights prior to the kids. We had grown really accustomed to each other. Then we had our first and it became really turbulent and it passed, we found our balance again and now we have two kids and it's gotten turbulent again. So from this logic, I'd expect it to get better, but I'm not sure it will.

It could be that the way we autopilot and treat each other is just to unsettling to recover from. I will look into getting help.

Yes we lived a short walk away from both sets of parents and my sister-in-law so we were very lucky. My SIL was my daycare when I went back to work as well so we had lots of support. :o)

Wow -that's a great situation! And for the OP - do you have that kind of support so you and your wife can more easily get alone time?

Hey OP,

Don’t have much time to respond atm, but your post resonated greatly with me and what my husband and I are sort of experiencing as well(almost 2 yr old and baby #2 due in a couple of months).. will try to PM you a bit later, but I definitely can feel you on the ‘autopilot’ mode and and losing that connection as parenthood becomes centerstage :/

I read a book about high friction couples by a counselor but found it hard to apply to us. I do recognize the things in the book but find it hard to respond in the way I should. She does not really want to read the book, seeing it as she doesn't really have time to read. And I do think it's harder for to make time to do it, as I use public transport for example.

Maybe there's room for you to help free up some time for her to be able to read the book.

Those are things to consider. I will try and find out if there are different ways of getting help near me.

 

As far as the divorce part, we have both considered it in the recent past. However I think we both believe this is somehow temporary, because we hardly had any fights prior to the kids. We had grown really accustomed to each other. Then we had our first and it became really turbulent and it passed, we found our balance again and now we have two kids and it's gotten turbulent again. So from this logic, I'd expect it to get better, but I'm not sure it will.

 

It could be that the way we autopilot and treat each other is just to unsettling to recover from. I will look into getting help.

This sounds like you both have poor conflict resolution skills, so when things get tough, and two young kids are super tough, that inability to deal with stress and conflict surfaces and is wrecking your relationship. It is serious in the sense that you aren't just becoming distant with each other, but that harsh fights breed ongoing resentment. You can say things that can't be forgiven. So I would really encourage you to work on that, find a counselor who specializes in this and can help, read books, watch some video seminars on youtube from qualified psychiatrists on this. You both have to find the time and make the effort and actually make it stick. Otherwise, it's not just this but any relationship you are in will crumble. I try some of the methods but I can't make it work isn't good enough. You both have to put in enough work into yourselves that it does work.

we sleep in different beds.

 

we spend most of the time with the kids doing fun stuff for them and or spend time with family. We don't go see a movie or dine out or whatever, there is just not any time to be together.

 

Arguments have also increased significantly

Speaking as a parent of two little kids with both parents working full-time. Interview several babysitters!!!!! Get a darn sitter!!!!! Plan dates, even if it's just dinner for two hours. Be romantic. Everyone thinks after holding a baby all weekend that you're both suppose to magically light up for each other. NOPPPPPPPEEE. Don't give her the burden of planning all your dates, which I bet is what happened before kids. Call up your folks, her folks, your bros, yours sis, your BIL, your SIL, and ask them to watch the kids for a few hours. Even if she's nursing. You want sex and an emotional intimacy, go date your wife!

I am still nursing our 3 year old. And back then, he was exclusively on breastmilk the 1st year.

Compliment your wife. Don't forget. And sleep in the same bed with the same blanket.

This poor woman has had 2 kids in 3 years. Her body has probably changed, and shes probably really self-concious. I dont think its unreasonable to lose interest in sex when you are pregnant and feeling fat and bloated.

Its time to step up your game.

Get a sitter, and have a special date night that you plan. go out of your way to make her feel special. you two need to reconnect.

This is common, but it will take effort. Good luck, you can do it!

Your oldest is nearly 2? Correct me if I'm wrong. Why does he wake multiple times a night still? I'd bet lots of it is boundary testing and by going in every time, you're creating a bit of a feedback loop. My daughter is nearly 2 and when she's coming down with a cold or whatnot, she'll wake once and ask for water. We had a few nights where she woke multiple times for water, because she had a fever. All fine and acceptable, but if she's healthy, she goes to bed and that's that. My evening is important to me and I think setting a bit of a firmer boundary with the oldest would at least free up some time. Is your baby in bed with your wife all night? Is it possible to introduce her to her own crib, so you guys can sleep in the same bed again?

Your oldest is nearly 2? Correct me if I'm wrong. Why does he wake multiple times a night still? I'd bet lots of it is boundary testing and by going in every time, you're creating a bit of a feedback loop. My daughter is nearly 2 and when she's coming down with a cold or whatnot, she'll wake once and ask for water. We had a few nights where she woke multiple times for water, because she had a fever. All fine and acceptable, but if she's healthy, she goes to bed and that's that. My evening is important to me and I think setting a bit of a firmer boundary with the oldest would at least free up some time. Is your baby in bed with your wife all night? Is it possible to introduce her to her own crib, so you guys can sleep in the same bed again?

All kids are different. And dealing with another sibling when they young, really tough to deal with. I get what you're saying, but never say never. Each kid can be so different with completely different needs and preferences. No parent shaming needed here.

They just need to get back to each other romantically.

Sorry, didn't mean for that to come of preachy or shaming. I just know how much our life has improved with a little firmer bedtime and night time boundary, and I'm wondering if that could help the OP and his family free some time. I mean, she has no time to read a book even, that sounds unimaginably stressful.

I hear you. When I had one kid, life was very manageable, but my husband was also working partime when my eldest was young. Then, with two, it's like that little video of the otter mom with her baby sleeping on her, and that second kid feels as cute as that, and that gets you through the wash, rinse, repeat cycle, it's still so hard. They can be on different schedules, foods, textures, seating, behavioral approaches, more laundry, camps, daycare, expenses, it goes on. And when the get older, with two, the pool of people watching them is not too big especially when you get into playdates, where only the eldest or youngest is invited, parties, the constant things needed for school, fundraisers, homework for early readers into having one with special needs, ADHD, or maybe just not hitting averages, then sports, and on, and on.

Again, cute otter baby on here. Parenting is hard with 1 kid, 2, 4, or more. Even with both parents being hands on, it's so easy to get stuck in the parent vortex where all you do and plan is revolved around your kids.

My eldest, cry it out worked for him as a toddler. With my youngest - forget it - no go there. I slept upright for 5 months because he was a constant nurser. He just started going to sleep fully through the night 10+ hours at 30 months. Granted, I get sleep through the night actually means 6+ hours.

Apparently my sister woke up multiple times for the longest time -way past 2! My son did not. Good sleeper except from ages 7 to 9 - years old! -and yes we did some sleep training. But it was exhausting anyway -so much solo parenting between my husband traveling to take care of his aging parents plus for business and me living in a brand new city. On the other hand one of our dear friends who raised three kids (all adults now) said that her kids were "easy" and she meant it. I think it really depends on the child and home situation.