Hot Mess Proposal

Ready for a crazy story?

 

So I like dating older men. I'm 33, and I date men around 15 to 20+ years older than me. I just prefer it, for a variety of reasons. Met this one man, let's call him Adrian, who is literally the biggest sweetheart ever. Treated me like a total queen. Kind, generous, caring, chivalrous... pretty much everything a woman could want. Plus, he's financially stable. It started off as a "fun" thing, but I fell stupidly in love with him. Luckily, though, he fell too.

 

The main problem? COMMITMENT SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF HIM. (So he says.)

 

Which is why, after 3 months of dating, I had to leave. I'd surrendered my heart to him, and his to me (he claims), but he just would not commit. He preferred, as he calls it "ethical non-monogamy", as it kept down drama, possessiveness, and expectations. My response? Whatever, bruh. Peace.

 

So I left. The break up was harrowing. I was crying. He was crying. But I had to move on because I was (and am) dating for the prospect of marriage.

 

Okay. So that was the end of this past November. A month goes by. Holidays approach. I'm 3,000 miles from my family and attending grad school, so I spend the holidays alone (as usual, no biggie). I get through it just fine, but guess who pops up the day after Christmas, professing his love, wanting to get back together, and WANTING TO GET MARRIED?

 

You guessed it. My love, Adrian.

 

He pops the question, asking me about my desired ring size, rock, setting; promising to move back with me to the East coast when I graduate; saying we can get a house; promising to take care of me, etc (he knows I want to be a housewife). The whole nine. Acquiescing to all my demands. Yes, yes, yes, to everything, says he.

 

?!?!

 

Like who in the hell goes fom polyamory to the ULTIMATE commitment in just a month? Moreover, he was not able to adequately articulate his transition to me (i.e. explain why he'd suddenly had this epiphany), and so I was really suspicious as to why he suddenly wanted to get married. Especially after only 4 months (1 of which we spent apart). We also both have children, and haven't even transitioned into meeting each others' families or kids, which makes things even more complicated.

 

I tell my family about all this, and of course they freak out, and everyone suddenly hates him. My parents and step-dad especially hate that he's their age, and they think he's emotionally immature, trying to take advantage of me, and trying to control me. Etcetera. They make some valid points (i.e. his flip flopping, immaturity, and impulsiveness), and they make some very INvalid points (i.e. they don't think I should ever get married to anyone, because apparently, I'm this golden child who shouldn't get married for fear I'll give up striving for greatness).

 

I'm really torn. I agree that Adrian and I are WAY too early in the dating process to be considering marriage, but I'm willing to do a "wait and see". My family thinks I'm wasting my time altogether, says that his impulsiveness is a red flag, and says I should walk away. For my part, I've decided I'm not making ANY decisions right now, and I told Adrian that if he wants me, he'll have to show and prove. I haven't accepted his proposal, but we're meeting for dinner this week, whereupon my investigations shall continue.

 

What do y'all think? Wait and see / show and prove? Or should I just walk away completely?

 

(FYI: no, we do NOT want children, and no I will NOT stop dating older men, even if Adrian and I won't work out, lol. Just in case you were wondering. Assume I've already weighed the pros and cons of dating older guys. Because I have. ;-) )

What's the point?

 

In ten years from now, he'll be grandpa (he nearly is already). He will slow right down and any children you may have, won't hardly know him as he'll hit the grave long before they're grown up.

 

I think you seriously need to question why it is you chose someone so much older. It's not exactly ideal.

 

As for this guy? He sounds like a flake who is confused. I'd move on.

Thanks for your insight, but my penchant for older men is not really the thing up for debate. I've already weighed the pros and cons of dating older guys, and I've decided I just like it better. The second half of your advice is very useful, though. Thanks so much!

Do you really think that a man that has enjoyed the polyamorous life thus far is suddenly going to give it up for you? I suspect his impulsiveness is just a ploy to keep on having at you while he cheats instead of being "ethically non monogamous"

 

Do you know why he and the mother of his children are no longer teamed up? Did you meet him on Adult Friend Finder or something?

Well, as I said, it's not ideal. He will grow older far faster than you and it will become a burden, even if you can't see it now.

 

As for Adrian, he does sound exactly as your parents said. Impulsive, immature, confused.

 

I wouldn't count on him. And your intuition is right, he can't change all of a sudden. It doesn't sound like he's the one.

 

Truth be told now though, best you have a hot mess now and walk, rather than a hot mess of a divorce! He doesn't sound like someone you can count on long term.

@ThatwasThen: Good point! And I'm not sure... aren't most men enjoying their single promiscuous lives before they settle down, though? Still, you're not wrong, and it's something I should (and will) consider. Thank you!

 

And to your second question: yes. He and his wife divorced because she realized she was lesbian, lol. (They'd gotten married super young, for benefits reasons (as she was in the military), but during the course of the marriage, as she grew to know herself better, she realized that she actually preferred women.)

 

They still have a great relationship and great kids, though. According to him. He wants to introduce me, but again, it's a bit too early for all that, I think.

Thanks for your feedback, SherrySher! I really appreciate it! All great points. :-)

Your question is 'wait and see' or 'move on'...well, if I were in your shoes and had the patience ,I would wait and see.

Could he have all of a sudden (over the course of a month) changed his mind? I think it's possible. He could have had many regrets when he noticed that he would lose you.

I don't think asking you to marry him is the answer , at least now now. But he may somehow feel that it is his only way to 'fix' the problem.

 

It sounds to me like you have a good head on your shoulders. And I do believe that time will tell. It's about how much time you are willing to invest with the possibility that it may not really be what he wants. I also think it's wise to push a bit to see if he can articulate why he had the change of heart.

 

I wish you the very best !

P.S. I'm a bit of a romantic and have recently been having men-issues myself (which is why I am here),so please take my advice with a grain of salt 😊

I agree with SleepyOwl.

 

If you say yes, i am betting he will never commit to a wedding date -- he just thinks a rock will keep you around. He is older - but immature.

 

btw, do you date older men because deep down, you don't really want to get married again either - you want relationships that will run their course?

 

Either break it off, or date an entire year with no answer given to see what happens.

btw, i married a man (my ex) who was adamant about marriage not working, commitment was rubbish and the marriage didn't last long because he thought commitment was rubbish. I think he wanted to like the idea of getting married/didn't want to lose me (i never pushed or gave him an ultimatum).

What my biggest worry would be is, that he does go into the whole engagement, even marrying you, but then realizes down the road that it's not what he wanted.

 

He could decide to eventually cheat on you or he could decide that the whole marriage thing wasn't what he wanted like he thought and then you will end in divorce.

 

The fact that he hesitated, and basically ran away and left you on your own, says to me that he doesn't have one clue on how to be straight with you or is someone you can count on.

@ThatwasThen: Good point! And I'm not sure... aren't most men enjoying their single promiscuous lives before they settle down,

No, not at all and its wise to give men who don't have the same end goal or sexual dynamic as you the boot early on. It is dysfunctional, in most cases, to stick around and find out if some guy who doesn't believe in monogamy will suddenly change for you. We should quickly leave, and keep gone men who are like what this man is when you yourself are not the poly kind. th

Still, you're not wrong, and it's something I should (and will) consider. Thank you!

Don't let him dazzle you with his science. Frankly, if you decide to carry on with him, you will be (by all accounts) tearing down a romantic boundary and end goal for yourself. After only three months of dating, I think his proposal is as genuine as a fake mink coat.

 

And to your second question: yes. He and his wife divorced because she realized she was lesbian, lol. (They'd gotten married super young, for benefits reasons (as she was in the military), but during the course of the marriage, as she grew to know herself better, she realized that she actually preferred women.)

So he married for suspect reasons even back then! How long did he date her before he married her for her benefits? O.o

They still have a great relationship and great kids, though. According to him. He wants to introduce me, but again, it's a bit too early for all that, I think.

Yes and if you carry on with him, do not meet his children or introduce your's until at least a year from now and you know, without a doubt that he's not some masher.

 

If you continue on with him: Keep your head about you and your heart off your sleeve, like I said his proposal sounds like a ploy to keep you while he continues on in his "emoral non-monogamy" Three months of dating, pfft. You don't even know one another. He's sounding like a right player to be honest.

btw, i married a man (my ex) who was adamant about marriage not working, commitment was rubbish and the marriage didn't last long because he thought commitment was rubbish. I think he wanted to like the idea of getting married/didn't want to lose me (i never pushed or gave him an ultimatum).

Key words there ^^^ are: my ex.

@Sleepy Owl: Thanks for your insights. I too am a romantic (somewhat), but I'm trying to keep my head (and my goals) straight. lol! Good luck to us romantics... it's rough out here.

@SherrySher: even MORE good points to consider. Thank you!

No, not at all and its wise to give men who don't have the same end goal or sexual dynamic as you the boot early on. It is dysfunctional, in most cases, to stick around and find out if some guy who doesn't believe in monogamy will suddenly change for you. We should quickly leave, and keep gone men who are like what this man is when you yourself are not the poly kind. th

 

Hmmmm, I've yet to meet a single man who isn't playing the field with multiple women BEFORE he gets serious with one of them. (Just because you don't know about it/her doesn't mean it's not happening.) Still, all your points still stand re: the differences in our "sexual dynamics". Polyamory is a love-style and a lifestyle, not just about sex with various people, and it's just as hard to change one's polyamorous style into a monogamous one as it is to turn a monogamous person into a polyamorous person. You're right; I need to be on alert for the BS.

 

Don't let him dazzle you with his science. Frankly, if you decide to carry on with him, you will be (by all accounts) tearing down a romantic boundary and end goal for yourself. After only three months of dating, I think his proposal is as genuine as a fake mink coat.

 

-- LOLOLOL! This analogy is awesome, lol.

 

So he married for suspect reasons even back then! How long did he date her before he married her for her benefits? O.o

 

-- LOL! No, SHE was the one who pitched the "benefits" package to HIM, and it was a mutual agreement. He was 23, or something like that. Not so suspicious... military marriages are often like this (at least in the States) and inadvisably, young people do dumb things like that all the time, and this is now 30 years later.

 

Yes and if you carry on with him, do not meet his children or introduce your's until at least a year from now and you know, without a doubt that he's not some masher.

 

If you continue on with him: Keep your head about you and your heart off your sleeve, like I said his proposal sounds like a ploy to keep you while he continues on in his "emoral non-monogamy" Three months of dating, pfft. You don't even know one another. He's sounding like a right player to be honest.

 

-- LOL. Totally fair and understandable. Thanks for your frank feedback. I really appreciate your objective perspective.

This seems like a lot of drama, too early on. I don't understand how he went from polyamory to wanting to marry you in the course of a month. I think that you're right to be cautious. If you want to keep dating him, put the marriage talk on hold for at least a year, see if he's really ready to give up poly-amory and be a 1-woman man, or if this is something he will flip-flop on again in a month.

If I were a betting woman, I would bet one of two things happened:

 

Either he had someone in mind for the non-monogamous thing (ie: he was dating someone else and didn’t want to decide between you) and she broke up with him... or... the emotions of the holidays and being alone got to him and so he’s had a change of heart.

 

I’d actually be more comfortable in your shoes if it was the first scenario... because that would indicate (to me) that maybe he IS about monogamy but it was just bad timing. For the second scenario, I would not expect that to last very long. If he’s really into non-monogamy but he’s just lonely at the moment, he’ll flip back to wanting non-monogamy in no time.

 

Do you know his history? Has he had multiple girlfriends before and lived the poly lifestyle before? Or was this something new to him?

 

The fact that he hesitated, and basically ran away and left you on your own, says to me that he doesn't have one clue on how to be straight with you or is someone you can count on.

 

This is exactly what I am thinking. I wouldnt trust him to stick around at all. He's done it once, he could do it again.

How oh how did have I been so late to stumble upon this one?! Smack in the middle of my wheelhouse!

 

My feeling (just trying to gauage you over a few posts) is to try to be patient, stay open, and explore this moment. But I’d do that while putting a pin on the whole proposal thing. I’d do that being aware that there’s going to be another few rounds of push/pull, confusion, drama, heat, dashed hopes, hopes met, and so on. I’d do that if the sentence I just wrote sounds kind of fun and interesting as opposed to just insane.

 

I wouldn’t offer that advice to everyone, but it sound like you’re kind of game to play in those waters. More than game, even. I think these are the very waters you want to play in and find partnership in. I think the same is true for him.

 

I can relate. But enough about me...

 

Truth is, I don’t think either of you know exactly what you want. And that’s okay! What you do know is that you’re drawn to each other, pretty nuts about each other, and you’d like to explore that more. So, if you can make a little room for that without going nuts, why not?

 

As for the whole poly/ethical non-monoagomy component: hmmmmm. My read is that dude is just, well, a dude. He’s been a bachelor for a while, I assume? He kind of wants to keep having it every which way, reaching for language that makes that possible, except somewhere in there he doesn’t actually want to have it every which way. But, well, he’s kind of set in his ways, or thought he was...

 

I can go on and on here, but I’ll cut this one off for the moment.

 

Some questions: In the three months was he sleeping with anyone else that you know of? Do you assume he was or wasn’t? How do you feel about the idea that he was? Did you sleep with anyone else? Or just a kiss? Go on other dates?

Is there a ring or just a string? His values will not change if you get married it will be an "open marriage" whether you know about it or not. Call it whatever you want. Polyamory, open relationship, "ethical non-monogamy", cheating, open marriage,etc. Bottom line is he wants variety you'll never be able to provide. There was no epiphany. He'll just shift whatever nonsense philosophy, label, etc he puts on what he ultimately wants and will do.

He preferred, as he calls it "ethical non-monogamy".

 

guess who pops up the day after Christmas, professing his love, wanting to get back together, and WANTING TO GET MARRIED?

How oh how did have I been so late to stumble upon this one?! Smack in the middle of my wheelhouse!

 

My feeling (just trying to gauage you over a few posts) is to try to be patient, stay open, and explore this moment. But I’d do that while putting a pin on the whole proposal thing. I’d do that being aware that there’s going to be another few rounds of push/pull, confusion, drama, heat, dashed hopes, hopes met, and so on. I’d do that if the sentence I just wrote sounds kind of fun and interesting as opposed to just insane.

 

I wouldn’t offer that advice to everyone, but it sound like you’re kind of game to play in those waters. More than game, even. I think these are the very waters you want to play in and find partnership in. I think the same is true for him.

 

I can relate. But enough about me...

 

Truth is, I don’t think either of you know exactly what you want. And that’s okay! What you do know is that you’re drawn to each other, pretty nuts about each other, and you’d like to explore that more. So, if you can make a little room for that without going nuts, why not?

 

As for the whole poly/ethical non-monoagomy component: hmmmmm. My read is that dude is just, well, a dude. He’s been a bachelor for a while, I assume? He kind of wants to keep having it every which way, reaching for language that makes that possible, except somewhere in there he doesn’t actually want to have it every which way. But, well, he’s kind of set in his ways, or thought he was...

 

I can go on and on here, but I’ll cut this one off for the moment.

 

Some questions: In the three months was he sleeping with anyone else that you know of? Do you assume he was or wasn’t? How do you feel about the idea that he was? Did you sleep with anyone else? Or just a kiss? Go on other dates?

 

haha! I'm totally game, as you suspected. And I think you're right on your other points. I know *mostly* what I want. I want to be monogamous, but I proceed in life knowing that such a thing is probably not realistic for most people. So my philosophy is to proceed as monogamous and adapt as the relationship requires, but I DON'T want to start off poly (if that makes sense).

 

To answer your questions, though:

 

1. According to him he was NOT sleeping with anyone else during our relationship. I don't even think he was looking for anyone else during our relationship. I just think that the poly-thing is a release valve, or a "just in case I stumble on someone who's hot", thing. But it doesn't seem as though he's actively looking for relationships or sex while we are together, and when I asked him such, he confirmed.

 

2. How would I feel if he did? I'm kind of an a-hole, I guess. Like, do I care about the fact that his peen might have gone into someone else? No. Because he loves *me*, and for him, it's just sex. What I really care about is that someone else might draw

his time, attention, affections, energy, and his money away from me. It's not the act so much as my own, well, princess-y attitude. I like being number one. Yes, I realize this is probably a selfish defect here, but I'm working on it.

 

3. What was I doing this whole time? THE MOST. Plot twist and reveal here: I took full advantage of our polyamorous arrangement. Sex, dates, sugar daddies... SMDH to me, YES. I admit it. But I only dated around because I thought HE was dating around, and I felt I had to because I didn't want to put all my focus on him (especially AFTER he told me he was poly), only get hurt by him when I found out there was another woman. Saving grace: about a month before I broached the topic on exclusivity, I cut all my side pieces off. I wanted only him, and those other relationships pretty much paled in comparison.

 

There. I'm an a-hole. I said it. LOL!

Is there a ring or just a string? His values will not change if you get married it will be an "open marriage" whether you know about it or not. Call it whatever you want. Polyamory, open relationship, "ethical non-monogamy", cheating, open marriage,etc. Bottom line is he wants variety you'll never be able to provide. There was no epiphany. He'll just shift whatever nonsense philosophy, label, etc he puts on what he ultimately wants and will do.

 

This is real. And honestly, it sounds like pretty much most other marriages out here, except I guess I can at least be thankful he told me what he was about ahead of time. I see so many men on their "you're the only one" stuff at the altar, but screw everything that moves during the marriage after.

 

I just wonder if an open marriage might be a better and more realistic option. I wonder if the marriage itself is the thing that I really want vs complete and total fidelity.

 

Hmm. I have questions.

If you have a dismal view of marriage why bother with it?

What do y'all think? Wait and see / show and prove? Or should I just walk away completely?

 

I know you're marriage-minded, but don't just jump at the first thing that looks like a proposal. I would not consider Adrian's impulsive proposition to be a proposal of marriage.

 

Adrian does seem to fall into the hot mess category, however. It honestly sounds to me like he's missed out on something or someone he wanted and is now grasping at straws to make up for that loss--temporarily. To take the sting away, so to speak. This is my conclusion because no emotionally intelligent person reacts so desperately. I think he's an instant-gratification sort of person and just needs your attention for a little while. I don't think he is confessing his undying love.

 

Now, if you still want to test him out, set aside a reasonable amount of time to focus on a relationship with him. Date him exclusively for a year or two and see where you are then. Pretend that whole 'proposal' thing didn't even happen.

 

One more thing: I think you should examine some of the beliefs that you have about men before you marry anyone. These two claims make me think that you take a rather narrow view of men, and that you don't have much respect for them:

 

Hmmmm, I've yet to meet a single man who isn't playing the field with multiple women BEFORE he gets serious with one of them. (Just because you don't know about it/her doesn't mean it's not happening.)

 

The bolded statement above is pretty dismal. It says that men who appear to be monogamous are simply lying by omission, fooling and thus disrespecting their partners. More should not be expected of them.

 

Is that really what you want to marry? It seems like a great argument against marriage, in my opinion.

 

By the way, I do not agree that all men play the field, or that all men are sneaky.