Need someones opinion

Hi,

So this is a long and complicated story. thank you in advance for reading it.

I was with my ex for a little more than 2 years. we met while i was on exchange in latin america, we fell in love and moved in together after a few months. this was the most intense love i have ever felt and i just couldnt get enough of her. we got married after around 6 months, mostly so she could come with me to europe and that we could stay together.

After around 6 months in europe, she caught me having been to adult camsites like omegle and chatting (and masturbating) with strangers, and i told her that i had gone to them for sexual reasons but also because i felt a bit lonely (we lived in another country than my home country for the first year in europe, so we were both struggling to get a new social circle). this was partly true, but also because it was habit and i just did it because i was bored. There was some encounters with random people, i never showed my face or disclosed any details and i never saw someone more than once. My ex of course got very very upset and we had a very tough couple of weeks. I knew i had hurt her, but we kind of quickly made up and i kind of forgot it. I did it a few more times later, but not at all to the same degree, i mostly just stopped. (at this time i didnt know how she really felt about it)

This is now 14 months ago. 3 months ago we moved to my home country, i had gotten a new job, my ex had started studies, we were all good and ready to finally get some stability and start our lives.

But.. we had some big fights about some random stuff. We yelled. we almost broke up, but got back together. then 2 months ago, she came in after a phone call with a friend, and told me that she had never forgiven me for what i did, that she didnt love me the same way since then, that i broke her heart and that she could never see me the same way. she saw what i did as cheating. She said it was the worst thing someone could do to her, and that i had ruined everything. Now you might wonder why she didnt say it before, but she simply let it go for a while, so much was going on, and she just swept it away.

The last two months has been on and off, fights, discussions, whether we should see a therapist, be together, take a break or anything in between. a few weeks ago, after a long night, we decided to break up for good and try to be friends. right now we are living in a very little apartment, but we agreed to find a bigger place with roomies next.

I more than ever understand what she feels and why. I dont agree with her that it was cheating, i never saw it that way, and i would never do that to her. never. But I get how she could see it that way. I betrayed her trust, I didnt react well to it, i let her down. She already has a lot of trust issues due to a tough childhood, and i just shattered everything we had built together.

I am more in love than ever, i want to be with her so bad. She is truly the love of my life, and i regret what i did every second. It is the most intense pain i have ever felt, for her not to want me back. but i realize her pain is even worse.

We still live together, and we will have to continue to. (she is dependent on being married to me to stay in the country). and i have promised her to stay married to her until she finishes her education. I offered her that i could move out for a while, but she said she still needed me. I did move out for a week, but we just missed each other too much. I still do everything i can to make her happy, and she lets me. i spoil her every day and i take care of her. We support each other emotionally, we hug, we cuddle, we give each other advice and all that. the only thing we dont do, so much, is kiss and have sex. But other than that, it feels a lot like the same.

The last two weeks have been good and bad. We have laughed and just had some amazing times together. I get my hopes up, but she puts it down again. We go back to how it used to be, looking at pictures, watching movies, saying i love you. But she is very aware of these things, she says she is sorry for leading me on, that we can never be together again, even though she wants to, but she cant. She feels so bad the times we have kissed, and she cries for a long time. I also have cried so many times, said stupid things and just behaved badly. I have been so desperate, frustrated and so sad, but when im with her i am happy.

That is until she breaks that by saying that we shouldnt be making plans together anymore. She also said that she is not coming to christmas with my family, that it is too hard. (Even though she loves my family, and she is like a part of it already. Her family is back in latin america, and she doesnt have a good relationship with them).

I keep getting my hopes up, but she keeps bringing them down. I realize that we shouldnt be together right now. That we both have emotional problems and that we should deal with them first, and ourselves, before even considering being together again. But the living together and not being together is killing me. And more than ever, since she is not coming for christmas (and new years).

I dont know how to more forward. Any thoughts, recommendations or similar? would be very appreciated.

Sorry for the very long (and rambling post).

/Niel

What are camsites , I am confused about what you did ...have sex on web cam or something ?

yes. masturbating on webcam with strangers.

Ahh ok ...well I too would see that as unfaithful as well . I would also kinda be questioning how you could love me so much but be willing to share intimacy with another woman.

By what you describe , it sounds like she would give anything for it to be back to normal , but you have done the deed and she cannot shake that from her mind buddy and that is why she gets so far then pulls back again ...she can't rid of herself of what is done .

Yes, that is what she tells me too. She says that I should move on, and that she will too. I understand this, but we both just have such a hard time letting go. And I really wish that we didnt have to. It also feels like she doesnt really want to, that she is trying everything she can to make things go back to what they were.

I am just not sure what to do, how to move on, or if i should. I would literally do anything for her, and i try to. every day. but i dont know if there is still hope or if it would be better for us both to let go of the thought of getting back together.

Yes, that is what she tells me too. She says that I should move on, and that she will too. I understand this, but we both just have such a hard time letting go. And I really wish that we didnt have to. It also feels like she doesnt really want to, that she is trying everything she can to make things go back to what they were.

 

I am just not sure what to do, how to move on, or if i should. I would literally do anything for her, and i try to. every day. but i dont know if there is still hope or if it would be better for us both to let go of the thought of getting back together.

I do agree with you that she has tried everything in her mind to get past this and she just can't . To carry this on is delaying the heart ache ...she will probably never get over it , it will always be there lurking in the background ...in the end you will just drive each other to a place of madness . My honest opinion is to let it go I am sorry to say .

Going online and being sexual with strangers is a bad idea even if you're single. But doing that while you have a partner somewhere is none excusable.

Is it cheating? Yes.

You are sharing intimacies with other women, online or not, it's cheating.

I find it so odd how some people downplay it saying it's not a big deal as it's only sex and it didn't mean anything. Being sexual with anyone, online or elsewhere is a big deal, even if you're single.

You are being intimate with someone, sharing sex, sharing intimacies.

But to do so while you have someone who trusts and loves you, is terrible!

Just because its online, doesn't make it any less a crime.

Anyhow, what's done is done. I don't think she can get this thought out of her mind, even if she loves you. She is disappointed that you are the type of man to do this with strangers online and she's very hurt that you would betray her this way.

She has a right to feel that way. I think most women would.

You made your choice, now let her make hers and let her be.

For as long as you don't really see it as cheating, you can't show any real remorse to her about what you did, so she can't even begin to forgive you. So round and round you go.

Also, you are married, so you can't just break up like you are dating or something. Go ahead and get marital counseling as well as individual counseling. You both sound really young and really immature and have serious learning and growing up to do IF you really want for this marriage to get past this and work out. If she won't go to counseling with you, then take the first step and go solo. Show her in your actions that you are seeking to be better for real. Maybe once she sees that, she'll join you.

For as long as you don't really see it as cheating, you can't show any real remorse to her about what you did, so she can't even begin to forgive you. So round and round you go.

 

Also, you are married, so you can't just break up like you are dating or something. Go ahead and get marital counseling as well as individual counseling. You both sound really young and really immature and have serious learning and growing up to do IF you really want for this marriage to get past this and work out. If she won't go to counseling with you, then take the first step and go solo. Show her in your actions that you are seeking to be better for real. Maybe once she sees that, she'll join you.

Thats good advice. Thank you. We are young yes (she is 22, i am 26). We did "break up" but i have promised her to stay married regardless of what happens.

Going online and being sexual with strangers is a bad idea even if you're single. But doing that while you have a partner somewhere is none excusable.

Is it cheating? Yes.

You are sharing intimacies with other women, online or not, it's cheating.

 

I find it so odd how some people downplay it saying it's not a big deal as it's only sex and it didn't mean anything. Being sexual with anyone, online or elsewhere is a big deal, even if you're single.

You are being intimate with someone, sharing sex, sharing intimacies.

But to do so while you have someone who trusts and loves you, is terrible!

Just because its online, doesn't make it any less a crime.

 

Anyhow, what's done is done. I don't think she can get this thought out of her mind, even if she loves you. She is disappointed that you are the type of man to do this with strangers online and she's very hurt that you would betray her this way.

She has a right to feel that way. I think most women would.

 

You made your choice, now let her make hers and let her be.

Appreciate your opinion. thank you.

To be clear, i am not "bothering her" or whatever. We are there for each other, she doesnt want me to go. She also just doesnt want us to be together.

If i just left she would be 1) all alone and 2) lose her visa. So even though that might be the best for her, that is simply not an option.

There are no bad feelings between us. We are friends, we help each other out. She says she has forgiven me, that she is not angry anymore, just sad.

I dont know if that changes anything. I do realize what i did. I broke her heart.

She's stuck in the middle of still wishing things would work out and being in love with you and not being able to let go of what you did.

It really is a shame.

Hopefully you can remain friends but it won't ever be the same.

You certainly have nothing to lose by going to see a marriage specialist ....I think it would actually help her to know you realised you did cheat ...but you have to get your head round that one ..not just saying it ...everyone here will agree with us ...it is cheating to us ...but you don't think so .

You shared your sex with others ...she married you and you alone , she doesn't share her vagina with anyone else ( sorry can't think how else to say this ) no one gets to see her climax but you , her husband ... whereas for her , her husband has been splaying the lot all over the internet . She feels betrayed , nothing is sacred now , nothing is private . Does that make sense to you .

Also she wont understand why you felt the need to ..you have a wife ..why would you let all these women get you off ..all this will be running round her mind .

Thats good advice. Thank you. We are young yes (she is 22, i am 26). We did "break up" but i have promised her to stay married regardless of what happens.

I'll just say this again - there is no such thing as breaking up in a marriage. You two are married and either you work on your marriage, as the husband and wife you two are, or you get a divorce. There is no middle ground and what you are doing now will drive you both to madness. If she doesn't want to/doesn't think she can/isn't willing to try counseling to get past this, then your only other option is divorce.

It sounds also like you two have some major communication issues with each other as well and need to talk and set marital relationships boundaries and so on. A lot of this is really because you guys are still so young and inexperienced with life and relationships, especially her.

I don't think your marriage is finished or that she'll never get past this, btw. I don't have that kind of crystal ball and I can't speak for her. If you both want to, it might work out, but you both need to be able to learn how to talk with each other, how to behave, what is and isn't acceptable, etc, etc, etc. It's not just on you either, it's both of you. Marriage is not all pink clouds and butterflies and many couples who have been together 30-40 some years have been through more than one spouse whacking off on a cam.

Thank you for your advice.

I wrote her a long letter about that i did realize how she felt about it, and acknowledge it. I still have such a hard time admitting it to myself, because i really dont see it that way. I dont think it was different to watching porn. but that maybe also just goes with that I am the kind of guy who would never cheat. Not just saying. It is the worst thing i could imagine doing or her doing to me. I also told her that. I would 100 percent break off things if i was attracted to someone else, or wanted to be with someone else. I wouldnt do it in secret and then go back to her. I could simply never do that. But i also realize how that must sound, both to you and to her. Because to her it was cheating. End of the story.

I think if i admit to myself that it was cheating, i would simply not want her to get back with me anymore. Because that makes the kind of guy would never imagine myself being or wanting to be seen. I have taken a lot of steps already, gotten rid of my private laptop, havent gone to those sites for 6 months or so. I feel much better on that aspect. But I do realize that it might not have any effect on her or how she feels.

We were really close to going to a therapist, we had an appointment, but decided to break things off before we got there. Perhaps if i went myself, i could get some clarity and advice on how to move forward. Perhaps she would even join me at some point, or go for herself. (She also have severe anxiety and possibly a depression, so no matter what she would benefit from it). No matter what, i will stop trying to "win her back", i will focus more on just being there for her, but not in the same way. I will work on being a better version of myself. Maybe one day she will take me back, i can only hope. But until then, we both need to feel better.

I still really wish she would come for christmas with my family (we also havent told them about it yet). What are your thoughts about that?

My reasons are 1) that i dont want her to spend it with someone she barely knows (two friends who are also latin have invited her over). 2) we still bought mutual gifts for everyone in my family, they also bought presents for her. 3) i really think we could just have it together as friends, but i think she is worried of the signal it sends to me. 4) that i am scared to face my family and the questions they will ask (yes i get that is selfish).

I'll just say this again - there is no such thing as breaking up in a marriage. You two are married and either you work on your marriage, as the husband and wife you two are, or you get a divorce. There is no middle ground and what you are doing now will drive you both to madness. If she doesn't want to/doesn't think she can/isn't willing to try counseling to get past this, then your only other option is divorce.

 

It sounds also like you two have some major communication issues with each other as well and need to talk and set marital relationships boundaries and so on. A lot of this is really because you guys are still so young and inexperienced with life and relationships, especially her.

 

I don't think your marriage is finished or that she'll never get past this, btw. I don't have that kind of crystal ball and I can't speak for her. If you both want to, it might work out, but you both need to be able to learn how to talk with each other, how to behave, what is and isn't acceptable, etc, etc, etc. It's not just on you either, it's both of you. Marriage is not all pink clouds and butterflies and many couples who have been together 30-40 some years have been through more than one spouse whacking off on a cam.

I appreciate your comment. I was thinking of suggesting again that we went to counselling, because she really seems like she really wants us to work, but just doesnt know how to. I am not sure how she feels about that at this point. Last time we spoke about it, she was just focused on the haven broken things off. Divorce is not really an option, because she would be kicked out of the country. But of course my mind goes there. It doesnt really sound like a great idea to stay married for 5 years while she finishes her studies, meanwhile we would both be dating other people..

I think the best thing would be to start counselling myself, or to suggest us going again. Then see where it goes. I do still have some hope for things to work out, but only if we get the counselling.

thanks again

It sounds like she wants some tiny bit of hope that she can get past this and stay married but she simply cannot see it no matter what she does.

The only way for her to see any hope is for you to do something. You caused this so it is up to you to seek help. I totally agree a counselor is a great idea, a neutral third party that mediates what you two of feeling.

If nothing else it will help you both end the marriage in a more healthy way so you don't carry deep scars after it is over.

Find a marriage counselor and go by yourself the first few sessions and then let her know you are going and would like her to attend the next session. If she refuses then don't get upset, simply tell her the offer stands and she is always welcome to come with you as you intend on making sure you never hurt anyone ever again with your selfish actions.

Make sure you follow through though, don't just talk about it, do it!

Lost

It sounds like she wants some tiny bit of hope that she can get past this and stay married but she simply cannot see it no matter what she does.

 

The only way for her to see any hope is for you to do something. You caused this so it is up to you to seek help. I totally agree a counselor is a great idea, a neutral third party that mediates what you two of feeling.

 

If nothing else it will help you both end the marriage in a more healthy way so you don't carry deep scars after it is over.

 

Find a marriage counselor and go by yourself the first few sessions and then let her know you are going and would like her to attend the next session. If she refuses then don't get upset, simply tell her the offer stands and she is always welcome to come with you as you intend on making sure you never hurt anyone ever again with your selfish actions.

 

Make sure you follow through though, don't just talk about it, do it!

 

Lost

Thank you for your good advice. I think that is definitely the only thing left to do.

I still really wish she would come for christmas with my family (we also havent told them about it yet). What are your thoughts about that?

I know it would be easier then having to tell your family anything .. but if she doesn't want to , you need to leave it at . You don't need to tell your family details . It is the wrong time to make any demands .

I said earlier about just letting it go ...but I have to say , this is one of those stories were we can clearly see this woman is fighting to be with you . Fighting in her mind .

The easiest way I can maybe explain this to you, Niel.

Do you know you can abuse someone without putting your hands on them? There is not only physical abuse, but mental abuse emotional abuse and verbal abuse.

Cheating and betrayal is the same.

Follow this easy to hopefully understand line of thinking.

Do not behave with any woman that you wouldn't do so if your wife was right there with you.

If you do anything you think would hurt her or act or speak to another woman in ways you think would hurt her...then don't do it.

Just out of curiosity...if you came home one day and found your wife on the bed, naked and a man on cam with her and they were having virtual sex, would you be okay with it?

Just out of curiosity...if you came home one day and found your wife on the bed, naked and a man on cam with her and they were having virtual sex, would you be okay with it?

To be honest.. i asked her to do it with me earlier in the relationship. I thought it would be a turn on for both of us. It wasnt for her. She didnt tell me that she didnt want me to do it, but she said that she didnt want to do it herself. not that it is an excuse.

but no i would not be okay with it, if she did it without telling me. i would be mad. but i wouldnt see it as cheating. i would want to be included. Easy for me to write, but that is how i feel about it.

Well, then you two have different views on this kind of thing.

She see's it as cheating, as many of us do as well.

But if you want a more open sexual relationship, then perhaps she isn't the woman for you.

She sounds as though she wants only monogamy. (one on one).

The easiest way I can maybe explain this to you, Niel.

 

Do you know you can abuse someone without putting your hands on them? There is not only physical abuse, but mental abuse emotional abuse and verbal abuse.

 

Cheating and betrayal is the same.

 

Follow this easy to hopefully understand line of thinking.

Do not behave with any woman that you wouldn't do so if your wife was right there with you.

If you do anything you think would hurt her or act or speak to another woman in ways you think would hurt her...then don't do it.

That is good advice. and something i should have followed, in hindsight. i acknowledge this is how she feels, and what i made her feel. But we just didnt have this line, and i never thought that i would become what it did. I would never have done it if the line was clear, if i knew how she would feel about it. of course you can say that i could have sex with someone else and say the same, but for me this line with virtual is just too unclear.

Well, then you two have different views on this kind of thing.

 

She see's it as cheating, as many of us do as well.

 

But if you want a more open sexual relationship, then perhaps she isn't the woman for you.

She sounds as though she wants only monogamy. (one on one).

now that i realize how she feels, i have no problem with that. That part is not that important for me. I let it go and i feel good about not doing it anymore, knowing how she feels about it. I just wish i knew sooner, so i would never have taken it too far. And I just have such a hard time getting over the fact that this is what ruins it all, when i still feel the way i do about her. Nothing has changed. she is the love of my life. And she says the same about me. But.. yeah. you know. I understand her feelings, and i accept her decision. But she means too much to me, to ever stop fighting for her and caring for her.