Sister got called bad names by her kids

Today my sister, who is a single mom, got called the b word, "p***y", and stupid by 2 of her 3 kids just because they didn't get to go to a party, as my sister stopped that from happening by letting the cousin who was going to pick them up know that he can't since they haven't been behaving. Now she's scared to go home, as she might get ganged up on by them yelling at her, as 2 of them were before she left the house to her bf. Aside from this, they don't listen much to her rules, the regular cleaning, don't go out if you didn't get my permission, etc. She has 3 kids who are all teens: 2 daughters, 17 and 16, and the son is 14.

Since they were little, I've helped out with the disciplining, and they used to be intimidated by me, but they aren't that much anymore now that they're older. When I took the daughters' phones away 2 summers ago, they had a huge fit for about a month until they calmed down. And in the end, they just got new ones. Since then, I had been salty about it, but tried to keep on like it didn't bother me, but then after one day I told my nephew to "stop" when he kept asking his mom if he could go somewhere after she already said no, and he turned around with eyes of anger and said, "I didn't even do anything," I just felt the level of disrespect rise, because I feel like he did know, and I never seen him talk back to me before.

At the start of the year, I stopped caring, especially because I entered a school type of program, and I didn't want to show up every day angry, because at their house, there's something rebellious/bad going on every day. Now that I've stopped helping out, things have gradually gotten worse. There are 3 other adults in my family, but they never cared enough much to help me out with her kids, and I'm sick of all the weight being on me.

I told myself that if they ever called their mom names, that would be my breaking point and I would beat them. But when I think about it, I feel like beating them wouldn't even solve anything, and if I get any kind of charge, I get kicked out of the program. So my question is what should I do, if anything? Or do I let it get so bad that she might actually send them away to my brother, who they are definitely afraid of and I know will listen to, because I think she keeps wanting to, but never does; it's like empty threats. Is this my battle?

Where is the children's father?

And no, it's not your battle.

He and my sister separated when they were still very little. I understand that may play a part in it, also; it helps to have that strong, male figure around, especially in times like this, and just cuz/so you have that father. My brother who I said they are afraid of was kind of like their father figure growing up, but then he moved away.

It would be a good idea to explore therapy and get a handle on your lack of boundaries and child abuse fantasies. Stay away from your sister's kids in the mean time. Stop abusing them.

I took the daughters' phones away 2 summers ago

I told myself that if they ever called their mom names, that would be my breaking point and I would beat them.

I do NOT abuse my sister's kids - I have not hit them at all, and I've been helping raise them since they were children, but now that they are teenagers and acting more rebellious, you can't tell me that most people in this world haven't had thoughts of hitting their children or other people's children for being so. So don't call it "fantasies" as if it's some sick exotic thought. And there are plenty of people who hit kids once in a while when they don't behave; you're acting like it's such a foreign thing, so watch how you speak to people.

Can they attend family counseling together?

"Beating" them will not solve the problem, nor will a "strong father figure" who causes them to be afraid or intimidated. Fear and intimidation do not engender respect, and neither does hitting a kid when they mouth off.

Similarly over indulging your kids and giving them whatever they want whenever they want it is not a good way to parent either. You and your sister seem to be at extreme ends of a spectrum. There are no consequences with her and she fears how they will react to hearing the word 'no' and so she is afraid to say it or stick to it.

You seem to think making them afraid or smacking them around will make them fall in line. It won't.

The only thing that will teach these kids how to behave properly is setting firm boundaries and sticking to them. No giving in and no letting them rule the roost.

If you believe that beating them is an appropriate form of discipline - even as more than a fleeting moment (i.e. we can't control feeling that angry, just our reaction) or using your power in that way (like screaming at them as a go to response) then I would suggest not being involved in disciplining them at all. I would stay out of it other than asking your sister if she's interested in parenting classes. If she is then I'd help her find good ones or good books to read, etc.

I think it's fairly typical for teenagers to lash out at parents. Not as typical for a mom to avoid going home just because her kids called her names which is why I think she'd benefit from parenting classes, family counseling or similar.

If you believe that beating them is an appropriate form of discipline - even as more than a fleeting moment (i.e. we can't control feeling that angry, just our reaction) or using your power in that way (like screaming at them as a go to response) then I would suggest not being involved in disciplining them at all. I would stay out of it other than asking your sister if she's interested in parenting classes. If she is then I'd help her find good ones or good books to read, etc.

 

I think it's fairly typical for teenagers to lash out at parents. Not as typical for a mom to avoid going home just because her kids called her names which is why I think she'd benefit from parenting classes, family counseling or similar.

I agree parenting classes and family counselling would be useful.

but now that they are teenagers and acting more rebellious, you can't tell me that most people in this world haven't had thoughts of hitting their children or other people's children for being so.

They are not your children to discipline. You are not their mother and it is not your job to do such. That responsibility all falls on your sister. She needs to be consistent with discipline. This should of been set in practice way before they became teenagers.

And it is very normal for teens to test boundaries with authority figures. This is why your sister has to show strong leadership skills and be consistent with discipline or she loses respect. You cannot demand they respect her or change them for her at this point - your sister raised the kids who they are now.

I strongly DO NOT recommend “beating” your nieces/nephews, especially if they are teenagers. For one big reason is that Teens talk and you get in serious trouble. They tell their friends, school teachers, school counselors, etc. They also will post about it on social media (there have been teens who came on this forum telling posters about being abused at home). They also can be very dramatic because they get the attention they sought. I used to be a HS teacher and had children disclose about being abused in their own homes - and as a mandated reporter I had to contact Child Protective Services (CPS). If one of them talks to the “wrong” person about being beaten in home, it will land you in jail.

And the other reason... negative consequences rarely work. They have been proven to be ineffective in the field of children psychology. At their age, hitting a 16 and 17 year old isn’t going to change anything other than them hating and avoiding you.

I agree with the others of letting mom handle it and seeking counseling with her children. Stay out of it. You should NOT be disciplining her children.

Are you in a jurisdiction/country/culture where corporal punishment is allowed by a babysitter or normal or encouraged?

you can't tell me that most people in this world haven't had thoughts of hitting their children or other people's children for being so. there are plenty of people who hit kids once in a while when they don't behave.

I do NOT abuse my sister's kids - I have not hit them at all, and I've been helping raise them since they were children, but now that they are teenagers and acting more rebellious, you can't tell me that most people in this world haven't had thoughts of hitting their children or other people's children for being so. So don't call it "fantasies" as if it's some sick exotic thought. And there are plenty of people who hit kids once in a while when they don't behave; you're acting like it's such a foreign thing, so watch how you speak to people.

This really hits home for me, because I had extended family growing up who had this attitude. I had adults hit me as a teen, when my mom was not around. I saw cousins getting hit and talked down to disrespectfully by their parents. It's horrible and some of these kids did fight back. One cousin got together with and moved in with an older man when she was 16, anything to get away from that home life. Another became a teenage mom with a boy who also hit her. They both still struggle to this day to be in healthy relationships.

It's a lack of skills on the adults part. I strongly agree with you backing away and if mom is up for it, parenting classes for her and family therapy too.

This really hits home for me, because I had extended family growing up who had this attitude. I had adults hit me as a teen, when my mom was not around. I saw cousins getting hit and talked down to disrespectfully by their parents. It's horrible and some of these kids did fight back. One cousin got together with and moved in with an older man when she was 16, anything to get away from that home life. Another became a teenage mom with a boy who also hit her. They both still struggle to this day to be in healthy relationships.

 

It's a lack of skills on the adults part. I strongly agree with you backing away and if mom is up for it, parenting classes for her and family therapy too.

Look of course we are human and we all think about hurting someone else -child, adult -when we are furious - we all have had those fleeting thoughts - what you're talking about is far more focused and far less fleeting and your attitude is that it's normal and I have NOT seen you write "yes, I've had my moments but I would NEVER do that to a child whether mine or someone else's".

And no I wouldn't want to hit a teenager for acting rebellious. I would want to take away privileges and have natural consequences result (meaning - if the teenager is irresponsible and loses something expensive the natural consequence is she has to earn the $ to replace it). And I would take away privileges and have done so with my child. If you don't think your fantasies are potentially harmful it's not too far a stretch for you to act them out in a moment of anger- just takes a second.

The difference between just having the fleeting feelings and acting them out often involves self-work and self-talk where you learn strategies of how to calm yourself down when children/teens act bratty - you have your go to methods. And you do enough self-care (eating right, exercising enough, sleeping enough) so your temper doesn't flare up like that to the extent of wanting to physically hurt the other person . I feel I owe my child a reasonably calm and structured environment to grow up in and I fail at this at times but not to the extent you describe. And when I fail -when I overreact -I apologize and use my go to methods to pause and breathe and evaluate for next time what I will do -including preventatively. I also role model for him appropriate reactions to frustration - I tell him that I am feeling frustrated or annoyed or angry -tell not scream and often will tell him I can't be around him just then. I tell him in advance when he is crossing the line/pushing buttons -not because I will hit him but so he knows that in life you need to respect people and not cross those lines, including mine or people won't want to interact with you.

I do a lot of ignoring as a consequence - he doesn't like being ignored and then he sees that people who are annoyed with you don't want to be around you right then. I take care of his basic needs at that time and that is all. If you show that level of rage to a teenager and even threaten you will beat or hit them they will do the same as Itsallgrand described. You will have your "power" over them and if that is your goal then accept the downside when you don't have that power and they no longer respect you because you/the parent never built that foundation of respect where the child respects you and treats you kindly not because she's afraid of a beating but because those are her internalized values. Harder to do, but the results are worth it IMO. Much easier to vent/act out in rage.

That is what your sister likely needs to do IMO - parenting classes and books can help. And if you're going to be around these children you should do the same. If I were you since you are not the parent I'd have zero involvement in taking care of or disciplining them unless you really want to put in the work and effort. Thus far I'm not seeing that you do.