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Is this controlling and manipulative behaviour?


ginandolive

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Hi,

 

Ok, sometimes I have an awkward clunky way of saying things, sometimes without any acts of compassion.

 

Cut story short.

 

Girlfriend says - "I slept really bad last night, I am such a light sleeper, you wake me up a lot"

 

Ok..well I suffer from some mild sleep twitches, however I am aware I am often awake if I turn over for example and she doesn't make a sound (she sounds asleep), and often she snores....

 

So I said "I think you are capable of sleeping deeper than you think..eg I had a mild nightmare last night and you didn't stir etc" and I pass on my observations about how I feel she is sleeping deeper.

 

This may be I feel an awkward way of providing reassurance that it might not be as bad as you think, based on what I can see/hear/feel 3ft away. I am also of my own volition happy to sleep in a separate room. I also hugged her and said ah sorry to hear before I gave this response..

 

She was not happy with that response of mine saying it came across as manipulative and controlling and is exasperated that I can't see that it is...

 

I am afraid I can't yet, I am ready too if it is,,but I am a bit lost on this one. Yes I could have done a better job on my response....but..your thoughts?

 

G&O

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On that isolated instance I don't feel it was manipulative or controlling. Maybe you shouldn't have minimised how she felt and should've taken her complaint seriously. Probably a lack of communication skills on this one. But I don't see manipulative or controlling in this particular instance. Has she complained of you being manipulative and controlling on other instances? Do you think you are so in other instances?

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All you can do is stop sleeping at her house. Also consider getting her a HEPA filter or something that improves the air quality, sleep environment and provides some "white noise" so you don't have to tell her "she's snoring". Get treatment for your restless leg symptoms/parasomnias/insomnia and do not drink alcohol before going to bed. It sounds like you could both do a lot more regarding your respective health issues (snoring, twitches, insomnia etc) and a lot more regarding better sleep hygiene and a better sleep environment.

Girlfriend says - "I slept really bad last night, I am such a light sleeper, you wake me up a lot"

 

I suffer from some mild sleep twitches, however I am aware I am often awake if I turn over for example and she doesn't make a sound and often she snores....

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I don’t think it was manipulative and controlling (unless it’s part of a bigger picture) but I do think it was dismissive and... kind of weird...?

 

If you do this a lot, maybe she sees it as gaslighting? (telling someone things are different than they are in order to get them to question their sanity, etc)

 

She is really the only one who knows if she is sleeping properly. Even if there are “moments” where she appears to be sleeping well - it doesn’t mean she is sleeping well for the full 8 hours... It IS weird that you would dismiss her experience? I mean... she’s either tired in the morning or she is not? It’s not really a subjective thing that you can have an opinion on...

 

Have you been dating long? Do you sleep next to each other regularly? I do think this is somewhat normal in a new relationship or one where you don’t regularly sleep next to each other. It takes quite a while to get accustomed to a new person (at least for me) and all their twitches and noises and heat and stuff.

 

Sleep IS important, though. It can affect your moods, your patience levels and your health. You can only go without proper sleep for so long.

 

I think that rather than dismissing her experience, you should believe her and look for solutions to the problem together. Denying there is a problem will not make it go away or suddenly make her wake up and feel refreshed...

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I don’t think it was manipulative and controlling (unless it’s part of a bigger picture) but I do think it was dismissive and... kind of weird...?

 

If you do this a lot, maybe she sees it as gaslighting? (telling someone things are different than they are in order to get them to question their sanity, etc)

 

She is really the only one who knows if she is sleeping properly. Even if there are “moments” where she appears to be sleeping well - it doesn’t mean she is sleeping well for the full 8 hours... It IS weird that you would dismiss her experience? I mean... she’s either tired in the morning or she is not? It’s not really a subjective thing that you can have an opinion on...

 

Have you been dating long? Do you sleep next to each other regularly? I do think this is somewhat normal in a new relationship or one where you don’t regularly sleep next to each other. It takes quite a while to get accustomed to a new person (at least for me) and all their twitches and noises and heat and stuff.

 

Sleep IS important, though. It can affect your moods, your patience levels and your health. You can only go without proper sleep for so long.

 

I think that rather than dismissing her experience, you should believe her and look for solutions to the problem together. Denying there is a problem will not make it go away or suddenly make her wake up and feel refreshed...

 

Dismissive / weird ? Agree, it's why I said it's awkward

 

Gaslighting? Interesting one, aware of the term, however it's my awkward dismissive way of saying that the situation she faces might, and I stress might, be better than she thinks. A strange way of reassurance. If I was deliberately interfering with her sleep (akin to turning the gas lights on and off) and then making her question her sanity, then yeah I would accept this..

 

Believe in her and look for solutions together, that's the answer. Loved your response..

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I don't think it's horrible, but it doesn't really make any sense to discount someone else's experience. That's the perfect way to make them angry. I'd apologize and suggest that she awaken you if you get too restless.

 

I did apologise at the same, and have offered to sleep elsewhere in advance....

 

1 hour later, we revisited it all again, which escalated, which led to the "manipulation/controlling statement"...

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Gaslighting? Interesting one, aware of the term, however it's my awkward dismissive way of saying that the situation she faces might, and I stress might, be better than she thinks. A strange way of reassurance. If I was deliberately interfering with her sleep (akin to turning the gas lights on and off) and then making her question her sanity, then yeah I would accept this..

 

While I agree with you that it’s not really gaslighting - if the relationship is important to you - I would try not to get hung up on the words and look to the sentiment. You don’t want to get into the cycle of “right” fighting.

 

People often don’t accurately describe their feelings. (I know I don’t!)

 

The sentiment that she is trying to convey is “don’t try to tell me I’m sleeping well when I’m not!”

 

We are calling it “dismissive”. She is calling it “controlling/manipulative”. We can all call it what we want but at the end of the day it’s “not nice”. (I know that wasn’t your intent, but that’s what it ended up being).

 

If she is seeing a pattern, though, she’s probably throwing this on the heap.

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While I agree with you that it’s not really gaslighting - if the relationship is important to you - I would try not to get hung up on the words and look to the sentiment. You don’t want to get into the cycle of “right” fighting.

 

People often don’t accurately describe their feelings. (I know I don’t!)

 

The sentiment that she is trying to convey is “don’t try to tell me I’m sleeping well when I’m not!”

 

We are calling it “dismissive”. She is calling it “controlling/manipulative”. We can all call it what we want but at the end of the day it’s “not nice”. (I know that wasn’t your intent, but that’s what it ended up being).

 

If she is seeing a pattern, though, she’s probably throwing this on the heap.

 

Problem with me is that I am too literal. turn the tables. If I had felt I had not slept all night, and then someone said I was snoring - I would be a) relieved for myself as maybe it's not as bad as I thought, I did actually have some sleep instead of worrying I haven't had any...and b) feel bad for the person I was keeping up...thing is we are all different and just because I act that way, I can't expect her too..

 

I agree it was dismissive. And yes, if I keep on doing it then it starts to become more serious. What I struggle with, is that we both should not have not revisited/escalted after my apology/compassion, which WAS there amongst my weird dismissive reply.

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She may have felt you didn't validate her experience, instead going on why she didn't experience it that way - that she actually sleeps deeper/better than what she thinks.

 

A bit condescending, however she accused you of being the reason she does not sleep well, so she's didn't handle well either.

 

Next time accept what she tells you without debating it and ask her if she prefers you sleep at your own place or in another room.

 

Instead of explaining why she isn't experiencing what she says she is actually experiencing, which again is invalidating and condescending.

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I'll put my head above the parapet...

 

In this case, why is it ok for my observation of "You were snoring" to be discounted / denied / dismissed / ignored...? The observation is something I am experiencing, but it doesn't seem to get taken into account...

 

(and this isn't about me, it isn't a case of my sleep being affected, in fact it's not that bad snoring t.b.h..... however it is a indicator of her sleeping well...)

 

I guess I am invalidating her and being condescending first...?

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I'll put my head above the parapet...

 

In this case, why is it ok for my observation of "You were snoring" to be discounted / denied / dismissed / ignored...?

 

You don't get it. Let it be. If she said she is tired due to your kicking, accept it. Did you observe her snore the entire night?

 

Are you this way with everything? I would find it incredibly annoying and condescending.

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Hi,

 

Ok, sometimes I have an awkward clunky way of saying things, sometimes without any acts of compassion.

 

Cut story short.

 

Girlfriend says - "I slept really bad last night, I am such a light sleeper, you wake me up a lot"

 

Ok..well I suffer from some mild sleep twitches, however I am aware I am often awake if I turn over for example and she doesn't make a sound (she sounds asleep), and often she snores....

 

So I said "I think you are capable of sleeping deeper than you think..eg I had a mild nightmare last night and you didn't stir etc" and I pass on my observations about how I feel she is sleeping deeper.

 

This may be I feel an awkward way of providing reassurance that it might not be as bad as you think, based on what I can see/hear/feel 3ft away. I am also of my own volition happy to sleep in a separate room. I also hugged her and said ah sorry to hear before I gave this response..

 

She was not happy with that response of mine saying it came across as manipulative and controlling and is exasperated that I can't see that it is...

 

I am afraid I can't yet, I am ready too if it is,,but I am a bit lost on this one. Yes I could have done a better job on my response....but..your thoughts?

 

G&O

 

Several people have already said this, so I'll reiterate it:

 

You did not validate her feelings. That's what she was looking for. Validation.

 

You minimized her feelings by saying "You slept deeper than you think".

 

No, she was stating a fact, that she was kept awake. What she was looking for was validation, understanding. "Oh, I get it, let's figure out some different sleeping arrangements".

 

Instead, you came back with, quite frankly, a jerky response. If you were my boyfriend, I'd be pissed.

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You don't get it. Let it be. If she said she is tired due to your kicking, accept it. Did you observe her snore the entire night?

 

Are you this way with everything? I would find it incredibly annoying and condescending.

 

I am possibly, and I don't want to be, hence I came here to get my ass kicked (and I am happy for that to happen)

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Honestly? If her snoring bothers you, you should not sleep at her house. It sounds like you are already incompatible if you are bickering about sleeping habits.

why is it ok for my observation of "You were snoring" to be discounted / denied / dismissed / ignored...? The observation is something I am experiencing, but it doesn't seem to get taken into account...
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Several people have already said this, so I'll reiterate it:

 

You did not validate her feelings. That's what she was looking for. Validation.

 

You minimized her feelings by saying "You slept deeper than you think".

 

No, she was stating a fact, that she was kept awake. What she was looking for was validation, understanding. "Oh, I get it, let's figure out some different sleeping arrangements".

 

Instead, you came back with, quite frankly, a jerky response. If you were my boyfriend, I'd be pissed.

 

 

Thanks LHGirl, you are right, thank you, I invalidated and minimised her feelings..

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This has been really interesting, as I have never taken time out like this to get an insight into my behaviour. Unfortunately the original GF comments of "manipulation" and "control" I found unhelpful, a little OTT, a bit hurtful...that said all of yours have been really helpful. However well intentioned I am in some situations, I need to get rid of my condescending patronising ways then by the looks of it (I had no idea I was doing it so thank you, and it wasn't in isolation b.t.w, there were hugs, apologies, compassion etc, but I am undoing all that good work)

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I think you need to express that to her. I would also suggest that you ask her when you are behaving in this manner, then you can cut it off before it escalates into an argument. I think that you need to recognize your patterns, and you can do so with her assistance.

 

No one wants to date an azz.

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This has been really interesting, as I have never taken time out like this to get an insight into my behaviour. Unfortunately the original GF comments of "manipulation" and "control" I found unhelpful, a little OTT, a bit hurtful...that said all of yours have been really helpful. However well intentioned I am in some situations, I need to get rid of my condescending patronising ways then by the looks of it (I had no idea I was doing it so thank you, and it wasn't in isolation b.t.w, there were hugs, apologies, compassion etc, but I am undoing all that good work)

 

Hugging someone while complete invalidating their reality and experience is quite frankly very much a manipulative move. The problem is that you aren't actually showing compassion at all. If you did, you would have said "I'm really sorry you aren't sleeping well. What can we do differently about this problem?" Hear her thoughts, offer some solutions yourself such as sleeping separately, etc. Compassion is understand and willing to change something, but in your case, you just got defensive. When you got defensive, you started to tell her that she is not experiencing what she actually is and then turned it on her in a "well you are doing bad things too" like pointing out the snoring thing. The latter was actually childish behavior on your part.

 

I'm going to guess that this is far and away not the first time your insecure behavior surfaced where you got defensive and tried to turn things on her, thus the manipulative and controlling comment from her. Consider that you might have actually earned it.

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Hugging someone while complete invalidating their reality and experience is quite frankly very much a manipulative move.

 

***It's more ignorance and condescension --- right at that moment, I wasn't trying to manipulate something to my advantage***

 

The problem is that you aren't actually showing compassion at all. If you did, you would have said "I'm really sorry you aren't sleeping well. What can we do differently about this problem?" Hear her thoughts, offer some solutions yourself such as sleeping separately, etc.

 

****I do this, offered to sleep elsewhere...but also with the condescension...minimising etc..****

 

Compassion is understand and willing to change something, but in your case, you just got defensive. When you got defensive, you started to tell her that she is not experiencing what she actually is and then turned it on her in a "well you are doing bad things too" like pointing out the snoring thing. The latter was actually childish behavior on your part.

 

***Thanks DancingFool, the snoring wasn't mentioned by me to point out "hey you are doing bad things", it's more proof that she sleeps better than she might think (as she said she is awake all night - she can't be if she snores.....)***

 

I'm going to guess that this is far and away not the first time your insecure behavior surfaced where you got defensive and tried to turn things on her, thus the manipulative and controlling comment from her. Consider that you might have actually earned it.

 

***To an extent, absolutely. What it's been on my account, is a half baked ignorant way of dealing with it, by reassuring here that she may sleep more than she thinks (and I did stress "may" at the time"). It's not calling her out on the snoring, nor looking to avoid sleeping elsewhere.**

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