Confused and unsure where I stand in my relationship

My wife and I have been together for almost 8 years. 3 years ago we had a falling out and she broke up with me. I found out she had cheated on me and slept with someone else. Their relationship blossomed due to me not giving her enough attention, saying no to spending time with her, and just not keeping her as a priority. She finally just told me she didn't love me and continued talking to the other man behind my back. I begged and pleaded (i know it was wrong) for us to work things out, but she had her mind completely made up. I left to stay with friends and did not contact her much for 30 days. Through snooping around I found out she slept with another man that I knew and I wanted her to admit to it. She only did after I surprised her with the evidence. Her lying was professional. She never gave up on the lying and after it all was said and done she never fully apologized. Months later we rekindled things, but it was never the same. I tried to be a better person and gave her a lot more time, but I felt like I was the only one trying to change. It takes 2 people to make a relationship work.

Fast forward to recent times a similar thing happened. She picked up more hours at work and had outside hobbies that I was invited to, but declined. She eventually didn't spend much time with me other than later hours when she would come home tired and we would fight about random household things and other obligatory conversations. She told me again she didn't love me and didn't want to be in a marriage. She was confused and didn't know what she wanted. I didn't snoop around this time, but I had heard she was talking to a man at work and getting friendly. I left for 4 months and have now returned. I never contacted her through those 4 months, but she always contacted me. I was never anxious to respond to her, but I listened and replied back accordingly. We're living together now for 2 weeks and things have been very nice. We spend a lot of time together, sleep in the same bed, talk on the phone/text when we are apart, etc. At first we didn't know if we should be in the same bed, but she had no problem with it. Since she's warmed up and has "played footsies" in bed, puts her leg on me, and isn't really pulling away from contact. Everything is friendly. I cook and sometimes she'll have some. She cooks and sometimes I'll have some. We go shopping together and sometimes do other activities with mutual friends. I bring up selling our home and getting the divorce papers figured out and she is passive about it. We have a few dogs and cats that she is clinging to and gets sad about selling the home because she will have to give them up.

So my question is simple. What the hell is going on? I'm not completely certain I do want her back. The level of lying and how this is not the first time makes me very uneasy being with someone like this. She keeps her emotions in and is very poor at communicating when we have issues, but I still want to know are these signs that she wants me back? None of her friends/family give me any reason to think she does want to work things out. A large part of me thinks she is just comfortable with me and is scared of selling the house and moving on with her life. She is not very ambitious and doesn't have good finances. I'm just so very confused by all this. I came back with a 1% chance we might work things out, but if that were the case I had wanted her to display it. Woman don't just come out and tell you though, so I don't know if these are the signs. I was ready to fix the house up and call the realtor to move on with our lives. Now I'm not sure.

Sorry for the long post, but thank you for any feedback.

Sorry to hear this. If you want a divorce contact an attorney before a realtor. If you want to fix things, get marriage therapy.

The question is I'm not sure which one I want or she wants. Before I came back she said "there is nothing left, I don't want to fix things. I don't want to try with you" so I don't know how popping up marriage therapy would make sense. The main question I'm having is since I left and am now back is she displaying signs she DOES want to work things out or whats happening. "Where do I stand"?

"A large part of me thinks she is just comfortable with me and is scared of selling the house and moving on with her life. She is not very ambitious and doesn't have good finances." I would say it's more so this. I was thinking the same thing reading your post, that she's just scared to be alone and it's just hard to let go of something (i.e. you) because you're so used to it. One of my friends was in a four year relationship but he didn't feel much for his girlfriend the last 1.5-2 years. So he cheated on her and broke up with her like 2-3 times during that time. But he kept getting back together with her because he was just so complacent and scared to be alone. I think these kinds of behaviours signify that the person basically has one foot out the door, but is just waiting to take the final step. Also she may be keeping you as a backup still while she's trying to see if it works out with some of those other guys she'd been seeing.

I know it's not easy at all to let go because this isn't just someone you saw briefly off Tinder, this is your WIFE of eight years. Of course you still care for her and want to work it out, but it doesn't really sound like she wants to. I mean, she has cheated on you a few times now and also told you a number of times that she does not love you and wants a divorce. I know deep down you know it's over so I think you need to move out of the house and file for a divorce. I'm so sorry you're hurting but your wife is basically checked out of your marriage. The sooner you divorce, the sooner you can try to move on and heal.

That's why you would go to a marriage counselor: to work out what you both want. Keep in mind that you wanted back in. You talked about having arguments and you stalking her to find out other guys she might have slept with and then demanding apologies. If you were like this for the last 8 years, I could see why she was looking for a new boyfriend. You don't sound like a very nice guy. As Wiseman said, you probably want to contact a divorce lawyer and just wrap this marriage up.

That's why you would go to a marriage counselor: to work out what you both want. Keep in mind that you wanted back in. You talked about having arguments and you stalking her to find out other guys she might have slept with and then demanding apologies. If you were like this for the last 8 years, I could see why she was looking for a new boyfriend. You don't sound like a very nice guy. As Wiseman said, you probably want to contact a divorce lawyer and just wrap this marriage up.

But the wife was cheating a few times so that does make sense that he snooped to find out about what she was doing with other guys! I mean, they were married, she was not actually supposed to be seeing other guys!

Thanks for the advice so far, still interested in hearing more of what people have to say.

That's why you would go to a marriage counselor: to work out what you both want. Keep in mind that you wanted back in. You talked about having arguments and you stalking her to find out other guys she might have slept with and then demanding apologies. If you were like this for the last 8 years, I could see why she was looking for a new boyfriend. You don't sound like a very nice guy. As Wiseman said, you probably want to contact a divorce lawyer and just wrap this marriage up.

I am a very kind and loving man. I don't know what gave you that impression. I was out of the blue told my wife didn't love me and wanted to investigate. Sure, I know snooping is an invasion of privacy, but I didn't understand and so I checked her computer for evidence. It was wrong, but we were both wrong. I just wanted to know what was happening. The ends didn't justify the means I understand, but I was a very loving and caring husband. We drifted away which was both of our faults, but I always communicated and she didn't. I never harmed her, yelled at her really, or cheated on her. Please don't condemn me for loving too much. Her friends even critiqued me as a "Yes man". At the end I gave in and gave her too much power. Then later in spite of her I retracted some of that power, or at least tried to. Thanks for the response nonetheless.

Her sudden turnaround may be the result of HER consulting a divorce attorney.

My friend's now-ex husband was all about a divorce and moving out (he too had affairs). Then suddenly one day he stopped talking divorce and stopped making plans to move out. My friend did some checking and found out he'd consulted a divorce attorney on that day. The attorney most likely told her husband it was "cheaper to keep her". So he chose to stay in the marriage and continue to have affairs. They did eventually divorce, but SHE had to divorce HIM.

Your wife may have discovered her lifestyle would take a huge hit if she divorced you.

When I was married and unhappy I did actually have a friend who advised me to stay married and just have affairs. That way, she advised, I could "get" my husband to pay all the bills and I could just do what I wanted behind his back with his money as a cushion. Terrible advice, but that mindset is out there.

Tread carefully.

Thanks for the advice so far, still interested in hearing more of what people have to say.

 

 

 

I am a very kind and loving man. I don't know what gave you that impression. I was out of the blue told my wife didn't love me and wanted to investigate. Sure, I know snooping is an invasion of privacy, but I didn't understand and so I checked her computer for evidence. It was wrong, but we were both wrong. I just wanted to know what was happening. The ends didn't justify the means I understand, but I was a very loving and caring husband. We drifted away which was both of our faults, but I always communicated and she didn't. I never harmed her, yelled at her really, or cheated on her. Please don't condemn me for loving too much. Her friends even critiqued me as a "Yes man". At the end I gave in and gave her too much power. Then later in spite of her I retracted some of that power, or at least tried to. Thanks for the response nonetheless.

You wrote this:

"Their relationship blossomed due to me not giving her enough attention, saying no to spending time with her, and just not keeping her as a priority"

You may be kind and loving, but this was not "out of the blue". You admit to shortcomings on your part.

However, that doesn't mean she gets to cheat whenever she wants. If she wants sex with other men she needs to divorce you so she can be single and sleep around.

You wrote this:

"Their relationship blossomed due to me not giving her enough attention, saying no to spending time with her, and just not keeping her as a priority"

 

You may be kind and loving, but this was not "out of the blue". You admit to shortcomings on your part.

 

However, that doesn't mean she gets to cheat whenever she wants. If she wants sex with other men she needs to divorce you so she can be single and sleep around.

By out of the blue I meant she gave me no fight or much effort to providing me with "hey there's a problem". Now I know that's more so how woman act and I can't think using such "man logic". While I have came to the conclusion of what I did wrong there are still many issues on her end I'm just choosing not to pick on each one of them. Maybe I'm not painting enough of a picture of her. The main reason I came here was to address the now and not so much the then. She didn't ever want to do things we used to do, I guess she got tired of time. When I did offer time with her she told me it was because I hadn't anything else better to do, which I swear was false. Sure I didn't always make spending time with her a priority, but when I did she was very boring and uninterested. It wasn't just in me it was in her life in general. She stopped going back to school. She made no new friends. She just worked came home and laid around. Didn't take care of the house or management of any facet her life. We both didn't have high ambition, but her's was always so complacent. There is only so much I can do. I always pushed her to find a hobby and when she did this time around I was happy, but she wanted to include me and I foolishly just wanted her to have something for herself.

On a side note I uprooted my life to move with her to where her family lives. I put the full down payment on our home as well when she didn't have a cent of saving and hadn't worked for years both before and after I started dating her. I gave up and made many sacrifices for her, including my health, in order to keep giving into her wants and desires. I tried new approaches to our life before I stopped paying attention to her, but she never adapted or changed even after me asking for such change. Our sex life dried up as well and nothing I did made her more interested. Just more excuses and no proper communication. I learned a lot from this relationship and I would obviously do things differently, but all of this came from a place of love that was met with hostility and lack of change. Again, 2 people have to want to try to work things out and as much as I asked for that it never came to be.

We're getting a little off track. I'm okay with getting and responding to other feedback, I appreciate it all, but I'm more so questioning where I am now and if the way she is acting right now is conducive to me attempting to rekindle what we had. I might seem crazy for wanting to, but I guess I first want to know if it's even something she is interested it based on her actions.

Thank you

But your history is very much a factor in whether or not you two can have a successful reconciliation. It's important to have a full picture.

I don't know if you saw my other post, but is it possible she is sticking around for financial or lifestyle reasons?

But your history is very much a factor in whether or not you two can have a successful reconciliation. It's important to have a full picture.

 

I don't know if you saw my other post, but is it possible she is sticking around for financial or lifestyle reasons?

Sorry if I didn't directly reply, but I'm reading every word posted in the thread. I don't think shes is sticking round for simply financial reasons. We both are not making a ton of money right now. That might be part of the problem slightly that we did get this home we bought and it was a bit out of our financial range and money became more of a stress then it used to be. We both lived a very basic lifestyle and maybe she wanted more and less stress over finances. I think it's more about comfort of not having to start fresh for her. Dealing with living alone for the first time and managing her own finances. Currently even though she equally pays the bills I handle the actual payments and managing things on time. I'm very good with keeping things managed and she is not.

Still I want to emphasize how different things were before. When I took that month long break from her years back and I returned there was none of her contacting me or asking me to do things really. She felt very guilty and very awkward around me. Tip-toeing around and being very uncomfortable and away from me. This time around I come back from giving each other space and our relationship is honestly as good as it's ever been in terms of spending time together and being nice to each other. We would fight about small things so much before, it was unavoidable for so long. She would explode over nothing, I would apologize, and still she would be fuming over the smallest things. Now everything is nice and civil and we have spent a lot of time together the last 2 weeks+. I'm not completely certain she cheated on me this go around, only that she was talking and interested in other men after I left and maybe a few weeks prior. I also left this time on good terms with her decision and agreed. Last time I was very much the opposite. I lashed out, begged, wrote letters apologizing and going over everything like how she was my everything.

So that's why I'm questioning all of this current situation. She wanted to move on and get rid of me last time as soon as possible even after the time apart. This time she is friendly and avoiding moving on. It's very weird that this is on the better side of how we've interacted in many years. All that is missing is the intimacy in all honesty to be a pretty good marriage haha. Again, I don't come to this forum with high hopes, I'm just trying to understand her actions. Especially how the leaning on me and even rubbing her leg against me in bed. I don't think a lot of people going through a divorce sleep together and have that sort of "touching" involved. I don't think it's sexual, but then again she is not the type to make a big move. In our sex life I was always the initiator. She would do touchy things and I would take it to the next step which in my head I guess I'm wondering if she is sort-of-kinda doing that. It's all very confusing! I feel like if she didn't want anything to do with me she would not come close to giving me such questionable signals. I have to keep second guessing everything and it's driving me crazy.

I don't know if I want to keep the relationship going regardless of any of this. Someone commented I know it's done. Yes I've spent months building myself and getting in the state of mind that it is done. I always left 1% chance things could change, but it was 1% and not something I had any hope for. I feel like I'm repeating myself, but I guess I'm just wondering what my possibilities are and then being able to weigh if I want to deviate from closing this chapter of my life. It's a big decision that I don't want to regret. If trying to work things out is possible, maybe it's worth one last shot. I have already 8 years invested why not see if there is anything left? If we sell our home and I move I won't be coming back. I won't live in the same area, city, state, etc. So this is me trying to understand if I'm 100% ending this chapter.

Okay, my read on the big, "simple" question: What the hell is going on?

Y'all are in a MESS! It's up to you to decide if it's a tragic, filthy mess or a thrilling, weirdly beautiful one.

You don't quite know what you want, neither does she. You're both looking to a totally unreliable source—the other person—to push the scale one way or another. Because it's all so messy, the scale stays centered and confusion prevails.

So, what to do? Well, if you want out of the mess, that's easy. It's divorce. Arduous, taxing, and so on, but the gavel hits the wood. Over.

If you want to explore the mess? Well, you've got to ditch the analytical thinking, let go of some idea that you guys are so close to normal because of footsie and sharing some mac-n-cheese, and lean into something more like magical thinking.

You have to get cozy in this place you're in, the mutual uncertainty. You're kind of dating, in ways. Like, you're feeling crazy, asking the crazy butterfly questions. How into this is she? How into it am I? Is she still kinda into other dudes? Do I really even care? Those are dating questions.

That can all be exhausting. It can also be thrilling. It can lead to plenty of pain, but you don't need me to tell you that.

Tucked into your paragraphs I can't help but see someone who likes that thrill. I like that thrill, so caveat: I'm maybe projecting, and I know nothing of an 8 year relationship, let alone marriage. But, maybe, I don't know, there's a way to own that thrill together? I mean, what about an open marriage? You're basically already in one.

You're clearly drawn to each other, but convention went out the window a long, long time ago. So now it's about embracing the draw, or letting go of this so you can find something more conventional.

My two cents.

I feel your pain man. I went through something similar with an ex girlfriend of mine. We were together for 7 years. Last February she cheated on me with a coworker of hers. This went on for a month or two. She constantly lied about seeing him. I know this because I went through her phone several times. I begged and pleaded with her to make it work. Looking back I should have just canned her right then and there. Eventually we rekindled our relationship and ended up moving and buying a house together. Both our names on the title/mortgage. Bad idea. She put down the down payment for the house because she had the finances from selling the old house at her dispense. Two weeks after moving in together I found out she was cheating on me with yet another co-worker at her new job. Once again I begged and pleaded. Especially because we had just bought a home together. She refused to spend time with me and was spending our days off seeing him. I came back home from work one night and all her belongings were gone. I hit rock bottom. It was only 3 months later that I decided to get myself out there again. I came to find that I was getting dates left and right and thats when I said, "screw her, I'm moving on". And that I did. I also consulted the help of a real estate attorney to force her off the title and mortgage considering she wasn't paying for any of it and she had moved out. She then demanded her down payment back, but I made sure I had a screenshot of her months ago stating that she was willing to part ways with her thousands of dollars just to get off the house. I showed it to her attorney and it was dropped. She lost thousands due to her poor choices and she knows it. Karma is the greatest revenge.

What I'm trying to tell you is, dont trust your wife. Why would you even want her back after shes slept with another guy. I made the mistake of thinking my ex was still worth it after being with someone else. Looking back, I'm disgusted in myself for even entertaining that idea. Shes lied to you, cheated on you, and caused you to feel like crap. Consult a divorce attorney and get it over with. Get back into the dating world and find someone who genuinely cares for you. Thats what I did. My new girlfriend makes me question why the hell I spent the last 7 years with someone selfish. Dating will also help you rebuild your confidence. I've been where you are, I understand what you're feeling, but in the long run you are just killing yourself inside.

This is all up to you. You claim you get along better now and you claim you want to reconcile. So if that's the case after years of mutual disrespect, withdrawal and frequent separations, you certainly would benefit from marriage therapy so both of you could improve these communication and relationship skills and get some of these problems out in the open and resolved. It would work a whole lot better than suddenly bringing up selling the house and splitting up whenever she shows you affection.

If you are too resentful and unsure, contact a divorce attorney for a consultation to see what your options are in this case. You seem very contemptuous of her and quite bitter. So it's up to you if you want to carry on in light of the cheating and general demise of your marriage. Your chronic need for her to change in addition to being complacent and oblivious to her discontent hasn't helped. Nor has running away from your marriage on a couple of occasions..

she equally pays the bills

 

I come back from giving each other space and our relationship is honestly as good as it's ever been in terms of spending time together and being nice to each other. I also left this time on good terms. Last time I was very much the opposite. I've spent months building myself and getting in the state of mind that it is done. I have already 8 years invested why not see if there is anything left?

Yeah the whole "simple" question was a dumb thing to say on my part :(

The truth of it all is I know my spouse is damaged. She has a bad history and "daddy" issues to say the least. She has always had trouble expressing herself and dealing with issues. I've always been patient with her and the one to be the "bigger man". I know how this sounds bias and why should anyone believe just my side of the story. To be transparent the only issues she has ever had with me is my forgetfulness or clumsiness when asked to do things, of which I apologize immediately and fix, and my lack of attention to her in times where she actually desired it. The attention I take full blame for as that was a conscious decision I made time and time again. I have excuses for the lack of attention, but that doesn't validate me, however it should be something we should have been able to fight through. I did often as she puts it "shove it in her face" how I was always making sacrifices and doing things for her when she wouldn't. She isn't wrong, but instead of guilt or ever returning the love I put into such things she reacted in spite and hypocrisy. How do you stop such a vicious cycle? I just wanted her to return what I was putting out there. My bleeding heart just wanted to feel loved in return. The lack of love and reaction turned into spite and there was the lack of attention I gave her. Throughout all of this her immediate family has been on my side. They are fed up with how irresponsible she has been and how she doesn't make anything of her life even when they attempt to help her. Offering financial help for her school and giving her a job in the family business. They are devastated that she is acting this way towards me. They know most of the intimate details of our life and are very much against how she is acting and are very much on my side. I don't wear that as a badge of honor, I understand I could have made better choices. I also understand that every one of the choices I could have made were all me compromising and sacrificing more when she simply does not. So why am I still interested if she treats me so bad. Why after the time away did I gain so much confidence and self esteem, yet I'm sitting on a forum asking about the person who has crushed my heart and taken 8 years of my prime. I have no idea. I still hold on to the good times and the great love we shared. This woman and I were crazy for each other for years. I know that's the story for every relationship basically, but it doesn't make it not substantial to me. I love hard and dare I say, nearly unconditionally. I'm a sucker for that I suppose. I have other interests in my life now, even interests in other woman. I know I can move on and I've acted accordingly by prepping the house for sale and contacting divorce lawyers (today).

The thing about me is I've never been the person to throw in the towel or give up on something I care about. I'm stubborn when I'm passionate. When it comes to random things I might be lazy or passive, but when it's important I'm all in until the bitter end. I know people have gone through harder times and come out stronger and with lasting relationships. I guess I think about life and how this could be the decision I make that could be a huge mistake one way or another. 8 years invested and she is careless enough to throw it away without much of a fight, but that isn't me. Again, I know I could move on and I'm as ready as I'll ever be, but that core part of me just doesn't give up that easily.

Just so we're clear, the times I left was after she told me it was over. After she closed herself off from me (literally). She would lock herself in different rooms of the house. Not come home due to how awkward it was, etc. All she talked to me is about space and how she felt trapped. I did what I know she wanted and what I felt was healthy for both of us. The first time it was for only a month or so and had little effect as she spent the entire time fawning over another man, flying cross country to see/ him, and then having to get over being dumped. This time it had a great effect and we're like best buddies. She even asked that I extend my trip a little to give her more time/space to think without distraction. She kept texting me, against my wishes, but it was still very mutual that we were apart. I did not give up or abandon her in the slightest. I still don't know what to make of that hence I'm here talking to you great people.

Here's another question. If were legally married, but she tells me she wants out and that she needs space and I leave to live elsewhere and then she sleeps with another man is that cheating? I have always felt it is, but am I wrong to feel that way. Her intentions were clearly that she was breaking up with me. On paper we were married, but if we it was someone else as BF/GF I don't think I would consider it cheating. Does the piece of paper make all the difference? It upset me and felt like cheating, but what is the take from unbiased folks like you? Either way I hold my opinion that it is cheating especially considering the lying and denial, but I want outside opinion.

"The thing about me is I've never been the person to throw in the towel or give up on something I care about. I'm stubborn when I'm passionate."

I'm going to isolate this as a foundation for my response.

Inside there lurks, maybe, some harder questions: Have you mistaken dysfunction for passion, for depth? Do you need dysfunction and damage to feel passion?

I don't ask with any judgement, just in an attempt to get you to clearly see what it is you're not throwing in the towel on. This is not a stable person, or a stable relationship. Do you enjoy being the "functional" pillar that someone can wobble against? Some do—and it could be called a form a dysfunction—but these are things that need to be owned, not fixed.

I get the urge to not give up on something. I'm built similarly. I love a challenge. But there's a place where it can drift into unhealthy pathology, especially when you're dealing with another person. Google around about people who double/triple down on bad investments, or in casinos. Put twenty bucks on the table and lose it, it's easier to walk way. Put down $20,000, lose it, and you think you can get it all back if you just put down $40,000. Of course, those standing at the edge of the table watching know what they're seeing: something unhinged that is unlikely to turn out the way the bettor thinks.

Like I said in my last post: if things are cool now, and you want to explore, then explore. Just don't call a jungle a meadow, you know? And don't think a jungle can be turned into a meadow if you explore it enough. A jungle is a jungle, and that's where you guys connect.

The cheating stuff. Well, I think you're splitting hairs. If it's agreed that people can sleep with people during "time off/break" than it's not cheating. If not, it's cheating. Stop looking for excuses to soften her behavior and shoulder the blame. She seeks validation in very reckless ways, and has proved this repeatedly. She'll do it again. Hence my other question: Why not just make it an open marriage for a bit? You say there are other women you're interested in—so, hey, there you go.

I wouldn't bother splitting hairs over whether or not a partner has cheated. Either I trust someone as loyal, or I don't. The details are irrelevant.

Some people will pretzel themselves to find 'proof' of cheating or of some sign in the tea leaves that this partner will turn their ship around and magically transform into a loyal participant in the relationship.

Doing that isn't against the law, it just sidesteps the crucial question of whether partner is making a valiant effort to invest in the relationship and win back trust. If so, she'll have no objection to counseling and doing whatever it takes to make things right. Short of that, I'd skip the opinion polls or whatever is preventing you from seeking legal advice and learning your potential options in your location.

Legal advice is not the same thing as seeking a divorce. If I suspected my partner of cheating, I'd keep my own costs to a minimum, I'd operate in my own best interests, and I'd allow partner to foot the legal bills if a divorce is desired. I'd have plenty of time to deal with the emotional stuff AFTER putting legal protections in place.

"The thing about me is I've never been the person to throw in the towel or give up on something I care about. I'm stubborn when I'm passionate."

 

I'm going to isolate this as a foundation for my response.

 

Inside there lurks, maybe, some harder questions: Have you mistaken dysfunction for passion, for depth? Do you need dysfunction and damage to feel passion?

 

I don't ask with any judgement, just in an attempt to get you to clearly see what it is you're not throwing in the towel on. This is not a stable person, or a stable relationship. Do you enjoy being the "functional" pillar that someone can wobble against? Some do—and it could be called a form a dysfunction—but these are things that need to be owned, not fixed.

 

I get the urge to not give up on something. I'm built similarly. I love a challenge. But there's a place where it can drift into unhealthy pathology, especially when you're dealing with another person. Google around about people who double/triple down on bad investments, or in casinos. Put twenty bucks on the table and lose it, it's easier to walk way. Put down $20,000, lose it, and you think you can get it all back if you just put down $40,000. Of course, those standing at the edge of the table watching know what they're seeing: something unhinged that is unlikely to turn out the way the bettor thinks.

 

Like I said in my last post: if things are cool now, and you want to explore, then explore. Just don't call a jungle a meadow, you know? And don't think a jungle can be turned into a meadow if you explore it enough. A jungle is a jungle, and that's where you guys connect.

 

The cheating stuff. Well, I think you're splitting hairs. If it's agreed that people can sleep with people during "time off/break" than it's not cheating. If not, it's cheating. Stop looking for excuses to soften her behavior and shoulder the blame. She seeks validation in very reckless ways, and has proved this repeatedly. She'll do it again. Hence my other question: Why not just make it an open marriage for a bit? You say there are other women you're interested in—so, hey, there you go.

I've always felt like the functional pillar in the relationship. Like I had to be the bigger person and the one to make sense of the mess we sometimes had. She isn't a very ambitious or responsible person. Every part of her life she had to be pushed or nudged into, but I've always been okay with that. Sure I would have liked some positive support for what ambitions or achievements I was working on and didn't receive, but at the end of the day I just want to be loved. She's not a , she just doesn't know how to express certain things and give like I give, but I've grown comfortable with that and the other good parts of her. I'm speaking from good times not the current situation obviously.

I'm starting to come to the terms of the "jungle a meadow" analogy. I'm going to give this some time to see what goes on and then make a choice whether to do something or just push to move on, as of right now it doesn't seem like she is any rush to make a move. So I'll let it play out. Maybe she's opening up to rebuilding like we did once before and we can go to counseling if we end up deciding to rekindle. Or maybe she'll wake up and start pushing for ending this. It's worth the little more time investment I suppose.

I was being very careful to not "soften her behavior", but I'm trying to see things from her point of view. Which after talking to other people they understand my logic. She was done and 100% believed in those words and 100% believed I understood it. Only then did the "cheating" occur. I feel it's a lot different then doing nothing, hating your relationship, and sleeping around while keeping things hidden and going through the motions of your day to day marriage as if nothing is happening. It's still hurtful and not taking into account my feelings, but people often say after you break up or say you want a divorce to act selfishly and think only for your own happiness. AGAIN this is still an red flag. The way I see it AT BEST is she is prone to quickly giving up on me and moving into another man's arms with very little fight, which again is a weak trait and something I consider.

I wouldn't bother splitting hairs over whether or not a partner has cheated. Either I trust someone as loyal, or I don't. The details are irrelevant.

 

Some people will pretzel themselves to find 'proof' of cheating or of some sign in the tea leaves that this partner will turn their ship around and magically transform into a loyal participant in the relationship.

 

Doing that isn't against the law, it just sidesteps the crucial question of whether partner is making a valiant effort to invest in the relationship and win back trust. If so, she'll have no objection to counseling and doing whatever it takes to make things right. Short of that, I'd skip the opinion polls or whatever is preventing you from seeking legal advice and learning your potential options in your location.

 

Legal advice is not the same thing as seeking a divorce. If I suspected my partner of cheating, I'd keep my own costs to a minimum, I'd operate in my own best interests, and I'd allow partner to foot the legal bills if a divorce is desired. I'd have plenty of time to deal with the emotional stuff AFTER putting legal protections in place.

I'm already looking into this as I mentioned previously. Protecting myself is something I'm prepping to do. I also have most of my finances heading into my fathers account (from investments etc.) We also have an agreement in place for us splitting assets that I think is pretty favorable to me.

Thank you again everyone for your responses, regardless I appreciate all feedback.

You do realize that you need to divorce not "break up". That means one of you is the plaintiff (whoever files) and one of you is the defendant (whoever gets the papers served). You must consult an attorney. You are making grave mistakes by pretending this is just a breakup.

For example hiding assets in contemplation of divorce will result in serious problems for you since marriage is a legal contract that includes co-owning most assets acquired during the marriage. Whatever your "agreement" is for splitting assets is void when one of you files for divorce. You are in dire need of intelligent legal advice.

I also have most of my finances heading into my fathers account (from investments etc.) We also have an agreement in place for us splitting assets that I think is pretty favorable to me.

"If you are caught hiding assets during your divorce, you can get in quite a bit of trouble. A judge could impose sanctions against you, which are monetary penalties that you would be required to pay. A judge could also force you to give up your entire share of a remaining asset to your spouse to make up for the assets you hid. A judge may also require you to pay more support to your spouse until you essentially pay back what you took. For example, if you drained a $1,000 bank account, then you would probably owe your spouse $500. A judge could require you to pay alimony at whatever rate he demands, and could then increase those payments by $100 per month for five months until you pay back the $500 you owe your spouse. As a last resort, in some states, you can even be arrested for very serious incidences of hiding assets. This is more likely if you continue to hide assets even after your spouse has brought it to the court's attention."

You do realize that you need to divorce not "break up". That means one of you is the plaintiff (whoever files) and one of you is the defendant (whoever gets the papers served). You must consult an attorney. You are making grave mistakes by pretending this is just a breakup.

 

For example hiding assets in contemplation of divorce will result in serious problems for you since marriage is a legal contract that includes co-owning most assets acquired during the marriage. Whatever your "agreement" is for splitting assets is void when one of you files for divorce. You are in dire need of intelligent legal advice.

Just so we're clear I am taking this extremely serious and the term "break up" was never used to describe my relationship. This is and has been looked at a divorce. For the last few months I've built up myself, lived, and planned moving on past this as it was a divorce. No idea why you are giving me criticism on that aspect of the discussion. I have spoken to a few of my friends who have gone through divorce and have gained a bit more understanding during this process as well. I have already stated I contacted multiple attorneys to get a consultation. No mistakes are being made, because as of right now nothing is being done except protecting myself from the "what ifs" of the situation. I'm really not getting where your assumption are coming from. Regardless my issues that I wanted help with is understanding her mindset at this current juncture. I am and have been interested in legal advice from professionals that I expect to acquire sooner rather than later. Relationship advice and perspective from other people's lives is what I'am here for and to try to get a better idea if all the legal stuff is required. Again, I've been at this sort of crossroads with the same person 3 years ago so my first reaction isn't just to quickly file paperwork and see her in court. I'm prepared to do that, but I first want to access our actual relationship at it's current emotional state as it might still be something we continue.

"If you are caught hiding assets during your divorce, you can get in quite a bit of trouble. A judge could impose sanctions against you, which are monetary penalties that you would be required to pay. A judge could also force you to give up your entire share of a remaining asset to your spouse to make up for the assets you hid. A judge may also require you to pay more support to your spouse until you essentially pay back what you took. For example, if you drained a $1,000 bank account, then you would probably owe your spouse $500. A judge could require you to pay alimony at whatever rate he demands, and could then increase those payments by $100 per month for five months until you pay back the $500 you owe your spouse. As a last resort, in some states, you can even be arrested for very serious incidences of hiding assets. This is more likely if you continue to hide assets even after your spouse has brought it to the court's attention."

I understand the consequences of my actions and there is absolutely zero evidence of wrong doing on my behalf (I won't get into details, but yes I am sure). When my wife and I first spoke of getting divorced in a civil manor (2 days after she initially told me) the only thing we spoke about is the house. She and I are under the absolute understanding between the both of us that is the only thing we care about. Neither of us want to spend money on needless proceedings. Before you say it, yes I am aware people change their minds and act in devious and selfish ways to gain an advantage. Regardless, for now we have both planned for an uncontested divorce where the agreement I spoke of would be honored. Such agreement gave me most of my investment into our home and she would get some of the profits. This was written by a lawyer friend and we would sign it in the presence of a notary public. How that would not be legally binding is beyond my comprehension, but you seem to be the legal zoom expert here. We're again very off topic. I have and will continue to build a back bone of legal support and knowledge throughout this experience, but as of right now the situation isn't about imminent divorce or legal proceedings. I appreciate the concern that I need to protect myself well and early on, but there is no part of me that thinks right now that is a priority over figuring out the emotions of the situation and the possibility that may or may not be there for me to consider.

If you have been reading the entire discussion, as of now she has been completely uninterested in speaking about either divorce or selling our home. We spend 90% of our leisure time each day talking or doing other activities together. We go to bed together at the same time every night. Are you picking up some hope from this? I do not have hope. I gave up on hope a long time ago. What ever happens happens and I'm considering any and all options as I come across them. Again, the entire reason I'm on these forums is to figure out what these options might be and to see what other people have done or suggest doing. I came here with a plan to move forward thinking that there was only a 1% chance of getting back together with my wife based on her attitude and overall personality. I'm not saying I want to get back together as there are still other issues I have with her besides the obvious "I don't love you and I want a divorce". I'm here to talk to people and get a better understanding of what my options are and maybe some insight on what others have done or think I should do given the situation.

As always I appreciate the feedback and help, even the help that is not directly asked for. I'm sorry if my lack of "intelligence" offends anyone interested in attempting to give further input/advice.