What are my chances, any advice is welcome...

My ex-fiancee and I broke up mid october, after a very rough year for us. We were together for twelve and a half years, lived together for five years.

After finding out her dad had cheated on her mom earlier this year, and him avoiding all contact with her, probably out of shame (and she not making any contact after having reached out a couple of times), in May I got a health issue that put me in an emotionally very dependent state, and which must've suffocated her. From the beginning of the year on she was almost daily crying about her father no longer contacting her (I was urging her to take the first step even though I felt she was right), also expressing fear that she would end up the same, from May on I was the crying one due to the health thing, and she tried to keep strong for me. By september I was largely over my health issue, but I think by then the damage was done.

All the while I kept postponing having kids with her, the most stupid mistake I've ever made. I always made clear why though: it wasn't something on her part, I just wasn't ready (but not always for the best reasons).

She wanted kids for quite some time now, and I also made her wait to get engaged for way too long (we've only been engaged for a year now), because I wanted to do it right (she did know that and was very happy though once we were engaged last year).

Now she broke up with me telling me she just doesn't have any energy left to put in the relationship. The main factor was me postponing kids again and again, and I realize how I hurt her with that. Other reasons, after pressing her for them, were that I didn't do my part in the household and don't come along with friends for social stuff enough, and also that I limit her in what she wants to do when she wants to go out (by being overprotective or worrying about everything). At the start of the break up (the conversations lasted around a week) she said she wasn't sure - by the end of that week she said she was done and didn't see us ever getting back together, she was sure of that.

I held it against her that she didn't communicate clearly that all these things were bothering her. Her reply: "would you have listened?". When I pleaded with her that I would do everything to make us work, she asked "then why didn't you earlier", to which I replied that I didn't know those things were such issues, otherwise I would've fixed them earlier...

I'm devastated. Because I lost her, but also apparently because I had to run into a wall to realize there was a wall to begin with. Since day one after the break up I started working on myself (among other things: going to the gym 5 times a week, even though the physical was never a problem, but it does help with my confidence, which WAS a problem; seeing a therapist to help with my insecurities; and well... since I live alone now, I'm doing ALL the household stuff by myself now, cooking, cleaning, washing, the works - I'm refusing all help from anyone in that department, gotta man up).

We have barely spoken since the break up, almost all contact was about the business side of things (me buying out the appartment we share), and I have never initiated contact about the relationship - only the business side. Meanwhile she looks happy and smiling on Insta and FB...

Can I still fix this? Any advice or insight is welcome.

Important detail: the week she left is also the week she reached out to her father... which made me feel as if I was the one keeping her from doing that (which I really wasn't, I was one of the few people pushing her to talk to him, because I saw his absence was destroying her slowly).

Sorry to hear this. You are doing everything right working on yourself and only communicating about business. Unfortunately it sounds like she's done.

Since day one after the break up I started working on myself (among other things: going to the gym 5 times a week, even though the physical was never a problem, but it does help with my confidence, which WAS a problem; seeing a therapist to help with my insecurities; and well... since I live alone now, I'm doing ALL the household stuff by myself now, cooking, cleaning, washing, the works - I'm refusing all help from anyone in that department, gotta man up).

That is a long list. I too, would have been done. No marriage, kids, not participating in the household or social life, but also trying to control. Honestly, it does not sound like you valued her and it went on for way too long.

Honestly, I do not think that she is your 'one,' or you would not have dragged this out, and been a non participant. It sounds like you were comfortable with one another. I can't imagine waiting for 12+ years for someone to make up their mind.

Let this go. it is over. Be single for at least a year, and then look for the right girl.

You knew that the kids and marriage were an issue, don't throw that on her.

Ditto everything Holly said. I would just add that a good example of your problem was when your girlfriend brought up her feelings, you blamed her for not communicating those things instead of apologizing and begging her forgiveness. You were just too self-involved, even with your medical emergency. It wasn't that you didn't marry her or have kids with her after 12 years (!), but you were a narcissist, really only caring about yourself. (You also mentioned being jealous and controlling so there may have been some emotional abuse involved.) I think it's time to move on.

Imo, it would be very difficult to fix this. You have established a 12 year dysfunctional communication pattern/dynamic and even if you were to get back together, you would be liable to fall back to the same distinctional dynamic after a short while. You postponed marriage and children for way too long even though you knew how important these were for her. Everything was done on YOUR timetable AND you were taking advantage of her for years on regarding house chores. Saying that she should have protested harder is not valid. The counter argument is that if you really loved her, you shouldn't have taken advantage all these years. Imo, you need to take some time off relationships to learn from this and change. If you then happen to find each other somewhere down the line, then you might stand a chance. But in order for that to happen, the old relationship would need to be let go completely by both of you. And that takes time and moving on i.e. a long time of nc.

Thanks for the honest words. It's true, everything was on my timeline. I never consciously played with her emotions on that. Ever. But looking back I should have been waaay more considerate and understanding of her feelings.

Sounds like she had to dump you for you to finally wake up and pay attention. The million dollar question is whether it's too little too late. After 12 years......all you can do is ask as you literally have nothing else left to lose. That said, I agree with one of the posters that beware of jumping right back into things IF she were to give you that chance, because you are both liable to fall right back into your old toxic patterns. You'd literally need to carry on with counseling both personal and couples and take it one day at a time and be very very vigilant that change actually sticks. You also need to understand that you wouldn't be able to put off children and marriage even for one more day - so be sure that's what you really want with her before you even try to talk about it and be sure you just aren't acting out of shock of the break up but really want that life with her.

Your ex Fiance is a saint.

How anyone could last 12 years in that relationship is beyond me!

Sounds like she had to dump you for you to finally wake up and pay attention. The million dollar question is whether it's too little too late. After 12 years......all you can do is ask as you literally have nothing else left to lose. That said, I agree with one of the posters that beware of jumping right back into things IF she were to give you that chance, because you are both liable to fall right back into your old toxic patterns. You'd literally need to carry on with counseling both personal and couples and take it one day at a time and be very very vigilant that change actually sticks. You also need to understand that you wouldn't be able to put off children and marriage even for one more day - so be sure that's what you really want with her before you even try to talk about it and be sure you just aren't acting out of shock of the break up but really want that life with her.

Yes, I'm very aware. Two nuances though: I was ready for a couple of months before the end of our relationship and was the one pursuing kids while she didn't want to anymore. At the time she said it was because of the problems with her dad, that her mind wasn't in the right place. Now I realise it's because she wasn't happy with us anymore, and I cannot blame her for that. Second nuance: I may have gave off the wrong impression with this in my original post - the desire to start with children was only since about three years ago. Don't get me wrong though, I realise that is still a very long time for her to wait. We always discussed it and she was always ok with my reasons, I thought. Now I know she was indeed a saint, and I was a selfish *******.

About acting out of shock: no, there was never a doubt in my mind that she was the mother of my children. Never. But I kept postponing because of my own insecurities (whether I'd be ready or good enough as a dad for example).

About the household: it's not that I didn't do a thing and laid around all day. We both work full time. But in house the balance was way off though. For example: I would do the dishes occasionally, or clean the house. But she was always the one going to the supermarket or cooking, doing way more of the daily stuff.

Well.....you really have to look at the whole picture and the fact that she waited for you for 12 years in total. The whole wanting children for the past 3 years and you pushing it off and off..... I really think those last few months she was just finally at long last done. As in given up hope for you and checking out.

Like I said, 12 years is a long time and you have nothing to lose at this point except lay it all on the table and ask her back and this time being concrete - marriage, children, dates, times, etc. Don't hold your breath, but at least put it all out there so you don't have to look back and wonder what if. This is not a time where you should be playing it cool going to the gym because all that does is show her that her decision to leave was the correct one as you appear to be fine with her being gone.

Thanks for the advice. I feel I don't want to present myself to her before I am the man she deserves. A man that will no longer disappoint her. I don't want to jump back in... If... and that's indeed a very big IF, she finds it in her heart to forgive me, I want to be better than before. Worthy. Independent. Confident. And I don't ever want to disappoint her again. If I ask for anything now, I feel I will.

Thanks for the advice. I feel I don't want to present myself to her before I am the man she deserves. A man that will no longer disappoint her. I don't want to jump back in... If... and that's indeed a very big IF, she finds it in her heart to forgive me, I want to be better than before. Worthy. Independent. Confident. And I don't ever want to disappoint her again. If I ask for anything now, I feel I will.

......Interesting in the sense that your pattern of delay and wait for some perfect moment when everything is aligned just right before you move forward is manifesting itself as we speak. OP, by the time you feel ready, IF that ever even happens, she might well be married, have had children and be a grandma by then.....

I understand the logic. But she was clear when we broke up that she needed space and time for herself. To put herself first. To clear her mind. I want to be respectful of that. If I move now, won't I be pushing my needs and my wants on her again? Because I suddenly saw the light? I mean I am very well aware that she's fed up about a lot of stuff and I am sincere about working on these things. But I also don't want to ruin what little chances I have by coming across as disrespectful of her wishes (yeah, I know, too late). Or by having her endure some more of my "work in progress". I've told her when we broke up that I was willing to do anything to make us work, and she wouldn't have any of it... I don't see why a month later, she would feel different if all I have to show for are words (I mean: yes, I'm going to the gym, going to therapy, being independent, but I can only SAY I am, right? Why would she care for any more of my words? I want to be able to show her. But I don't know how.).

I really want this to work out. There hasn't been a day that I haven't worked at this very hard. The gym is just a little part of that, mainly to help me with my confidence issues. I really want to be who I need to be for her. But I can't go back in time, and I'm afraid I'll always be met with "why didn't you earlier?". And the honest answer to that is that I didn't realize, even though I very much should have.

Thank you for your insight DancingFool, it's really making me think.

I think this one is done, OP.

You are right that going to her and laying it all on the table now is probably going to come across as insincere, and if you're still not actually ready for those things, it's futile anyway.

I believe she very much wanted marriage and family with you. Note the use of the past tense. I think she has grown away from you and her feelings just aren't the same anymore.