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Thread: Manuka Honey?

  1. #21
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Wow. Never heard of a country where a DVM and a license are not required to have a veterinary practice.. Sounds like the 1800s wild west where the farrier doubled as the horse doctor.
    Originally Posted by Jellybean9
    We have a veterinarian board in this country and not all practices are required to be approved by this board. So it is perfectly legal for practices to run and not have that board seal of approval.

  2. #22
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    I was referring to licensed physicians and veterinarians. It's not just a "business" because at least in my country you take certain oaths (so do attorneys). So for many (meaning who charge for their services -not referring to pro bono or volunteer situations) it's both a business and a licensed profession - and of course businesses should be ethical but professionals also have licenses/other requirements to "do no harm" etc. There are unethical people everywhere. You are painting with a fairly broad brush with your negative spin on veterinarians. I would not go to any doctor who was not licensed in his/her field or specialty. And of course I do my due diligence.

    And yes if my doctor recommended honey I would try it since I trust my doctor and my child's doctor.

  3. #23
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    Medical professionals have to earn a living like everyone else, but when they are remunerated for their services it's scamming? Unfortunately licensed educated professionals are scamming and people putting honey on pets is not scamming seems to be convoluted logic.
    Originally Posted by Jellybean9
    I was merely stating to j.man how it is run as a business. As it essentially is a business. There is a whole module in veterinary medicine which is "phamacetical business" then one towards the end of the pre-clincal years relating to the "business and management of vetrinary practices".

  4. #24
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    I think if a licensed professional wants to stay in business he or she has to operate with the appropriate level of ethics and integrity. Of course it's a business and of course there are profits involved and just because it is a business doesn't mean that the person would make any unethical or immoral decisions with respect to her patients/ clients. Of course money motivates business people. And business people know that if they prioritize profits over ethical behavior their business will ultimately suffer. And of course most people are motivated too by an internal sense of what is right and ethical and moral and act on that in their business dealings.

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  6. #25
    Silver Member Jellybean9's Avatar
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    You are all making it seem like I'm saying all veterinarians are corrupt.

    Never did I say that what so ever.

    I was stating incidences I've seen first hand!

    You have all been very fortunate to have only ever met incredibly professional people. Whether that be vets, doctors or even lawyers.

    Any profession you look into will have a few individuals that will cut corners for personal gain.

    I have friends that are trainee vets that have seen similar situations in practice that I've mentioned and they are shocked too.

    Not to say it's all bad as they have also have had very enriching experiences from other incredibly lovely vets. So have I for that matter.

    Yes all licensed vets and vet nurses take an oath and should abide to it.

    I was also talking about general standards for the practices in general.

    In my country obviously all practices are lisenced. But not all of them are acredited from our regulatory body for veterinary surgeons. This requires setting standards and carrying out regular assessments, which promote and maintain the highest standards of veterinary care.

    For the record I have never ever seen the things I've mentioned in one of those practices.

    Yes it's a pet owners choice which practice they go to. I would only ever go to one that is accredited myself.

    I have also seen those that are not acredited the same high standard of care as those that are.

    That said regardless of accreditation I should expect to see the same high standard regardless due to the oath they make. Not always the case sadly.

    It's some of the ones that aren't accredited that are able to get away with treating it more like a business. Essentially letting their overall standards slip. It would go unnoticed as they are not rigoursly checked like those with the "golden stamp".

    I never came on here to insult the veterinary profession or undermine it.

    I shared some experiences I witnessed first hand but never said all veterinary practices are that way. I am not painting all veterinarians to be the bad or the enemy.

    I literally questioned about people's views on Manuka honey as a treatment.

    It's sold in veterinary practices. Doesn't make it hokum.

    One of the leading veterinarians in the UK uses it with some brilliant outcomes. So he is an advocate for this honeys healing properties.

    In fact I've googled a lot into this yesterday. There are many other forums with people singing it's praises for their pets.

    Just because something is not widely known doesn't make it bad.

    Anyway for those of you that are pet owners and interested in this honey. Ask your vets about it next time you visit them.

    I know I will ask at my next visit. As I would not use something without a liscenced veterinarian's advice.

    Just because it's not conventional doesn't mean it is not benificial to your pets.

  7. #26
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    You were not just referring to a few individuals. Much broader and implying that because it's profit-centered it generally encourages unethical practices. That is the impression all of your posts have given me. Please do not put words in what I wrote -obviously there are always a few bad apples and not just in the healthcare field. No one said it was bad because not widely known. No one said that unconventional is bad. Those kind of broad statements are similar to the broad ones you made about medical professionals.

    I agree with those who described the specific issues with using honey on pets. Makes sense to me.

  8. #27
    Silver Member Jellybean9's Avatar
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    I stated some examples of things I've seen and have been told by vets and vet nurses themselves!

    Some of the things I've said shed a lovely light on the profession as a whole.

    I have great respect for veterinary medicine. Whichh is why I would not disrespect it at all.

  9. #28
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    Yes. I am sharing the impression your posts gave me. And at least one other person. Up to you if you want to choose a different way of expressing your opinion since you now say you did not mean it that way.

    Here are some examples where you were not just calling out a few bad apples:

    Unfortunately a lot of veterinary practices do cut corners when it comes to holding back on finances or making money.

    Sadly it is a business and like most businesses they will do the best to increase their profits.


    I've been in a practice with a veterinarian who suggested an official website to buy the medication cheaper for the owner. Like I said there are decent vets. Who do it for the animal and aren't all about the money.

    I was merely stating to j.man how it is run as a business. As it essentially is a business. There is a whole module in veterinary medicine which is "phamacetical business" then one towards the end of the pre-clincal years relating to the "business and management of vetrinary practices".
    It is a business at the end of the day.

    We have a veterinarian board in this country and not all practices are required to be approved by this board. So it is perfectly legal for practices to run and not have that board seal of approval.

    So unlike GPs that are strictly regulated there are practices that are no subject to the same scrutiny. So they are being run like a business.

    There are times you will get a decent vet who will put the animal first. Which is brilliant band the way it should be.

  10. #29
    Silver Member Jellybean9's Avatar
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    Okay maybe take away the term "a lot" as maybe I did not mean a lot as I can't generalise for the whole of my country out of the practices I've seen in the capital.

    It was "a lot" to me as out of the practices I have seen there have been at least 1/3 that were questionable out of the practices that were not accredited.

    I also can't make generalisations for other countries as they are run differently.

    What ever way you want to look at it. It is a business. I'm not going to back track on that as we know it is.

    Also take away "a few" as there are more great vets in the profession than "questionable" vets.

    The vet who suggested buying the medication without hyped up prices. How is that even a bad thing? Thought that was incredibly nice of him.

    It is my bad on using terms like a lot and a few. As I was basing it on what I've seen and not generalising to the whole of th country.

    That said I will stand by the whole business aspect as it is a business.

  11. #30
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    Yes and that it where we part company. I don't make assumptions about potentially unethical practices just because something is a "business." I'm a savvy consumer of all sorts of services and when I find a medical or other professional I trust as a person, in whose wisdom/intelligence/insight I trust I never take into account as any sort of default that "it is a business." If I ever thought a medical professional was prescribing something - or not - or suggesting a course of treatment because of a profit motivation that would be the last time I would see that person. That is why I ask people I trust and look at reviews etc and do my due diligence before frequenting a business or a health care professional for personal services. But not because I make assumptions about "well it is a business so the top priority is to make money" - that would be really silly as a priority as you state it because if the medical professional cut corners as far as ethics and integrity in order to "profit" that would hit her bottom line fast.

    Thanks for clarifying your use of broad terms and how that gave the impression it did. I understand.

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