I’m in a crisis, not sure if I should stay in this marriage

My marriage – I’m in a crisis, not sure if I should stay in this marriage and not sure what I would do if I left.

My husband has his own life, passions, projects that are (in my opinion) successful and he enjoys them. But often he gets depressed due to:

1. chronic illnesses (Crohn’s Disease, Interstitial Cystitis, Frequent debilitating migraines) and bad experiences with lousy doctors. He is often in pain.
   
2. disillusionment in his academic career (with the world of academia)
   
3. increasingly (over the years) antisocial attitude
   
4. I think he’s too harshly critical of himself and is self-defeating or self-limiting
   

I get frustrated/anxious

1. I often don’t know what’s going on with him, for example, whether he is unhappy because of his health, some anxiety about going out in the world, a self-defeatist attitude, a migraine mood, or a mix.
   
2. During bad times, he shuts me out, shuts down, withdraws, and I feel like he makes me an adversary. If pressed, he may say he’s in a bad mood and that it has nothing to do with me. But I wouldn’t know that without pressing, and then I still don’t know what it is about.
   
3. In bad times, I feel like he doesn't want, need, or appreciate much from me as a person (in terms of affection and support), and only wants my favors and acts of service like I'm his assistant or housekeeper. I know that’s not true but that’s how it feels.
   
4. I worry that he is pushing me down and making me more negative and isolated- and then I feel helpless, unwanted, selfish and guilty.
   
5. Lately when he is happy or up for activities, I am apprehensive and anxious about messing it up, or that something will trigger his sadness/annoyance and ruin it. I am also slightly frustrated that I feel compelled to drop my plans to cater to him because he is finally in a good mood or interested in doing something.
   

• He often seems to have a lack of interest in new experiences or in taking chances. He doesn’t like many people. He shows critical behavior and attitude toward me when I want to try new things, seems glum when I want to socialize without him – although verbally he encourages me to socialize & pursue my interests. Even verbally, however, he is often coldly ambivalent or even judgmental about my choices.
  
• He often shuts down the conversation if I try to make plans or talk about doing new things (“shut up” “I don’t want to talk about it” “just get out of here”)
  
• He will not make plans with me and will not talk about it. That means I cannot plan. When I try to plan something for myself or with others (he is almost always invited) I try to tell him in advance, but he often seems annoyed or rudely ambivalent & tells me he doesn’t care or doesn’t want to talk/hear about it.
  
• He almost never tells me his ideas or plans in advance, when he does have them, (probably because he often backs out of his own plans for himself – his unpredictable health is a factor). He says he doesn’t care if I join him or not.
  
• I find it difficult to talk to him about important decisions that affect us.
  
• I feel an unfair distribution of effort/accountability and directorship in the household.
  
• I feel very little support or positivity. I feel judgement and pressure and criticism. I feel alone.
  

• There have been times when I felt he showed a lack of teamwork and support of me in challenging moments - ex. When we travel or have to make decisions on the spot
  
• Harsh criticism of my mistakes or bad decisions (with name-calling “idiot” “moron”)
  

I feel guilty

1. Maybe I’m being too touchy and sensitive and self-absorbed.
   
2. Maybe I’m not being sensitive enough to his unpredictable health issues and the effects that has on him. Maybe it is not reasonable to expect him to plan.
   
3. I feel guilty about blaming him for his negativity when he may be dealing with legitimately difficult problems and feelings of isolation that I may have contributed to.
   
4. I worry that I have failed him: Maybe if I truly knew him well and were a good partner, then I could figure out how to help him through his sadness and disappointments, and I would make that extra effort to help him, bolster his confidence, provide support. Maybe push him out of his comfort zone when anxiety is holding him back. Is it my job to challenge and push him?
   
5. Maybe I was too cavalier and distant toward his health over the years in the past, or didn’t handle things well, and I pushed him away and drove him, in part (bad doctors and his school program did too) to deal with everything in this self-imposed isolation.
   
6. I have at times tried too hard to help him, gone too far and overstepped, messing with his work. Though there were times when he did seem to appreciate my efforts, and I have trouble knowing when I’m crossing the line, especially since I find it difficult to make decisions and plans with him.
   
7. When he's depressed and/or sick and he shuts me out, I feel guilty If I leave him alone, even though he’s pushing me away. I feel like I am abandoning him and being selfish and cold and not a good partner.
   
8. Sometimes I feel guilty for having fun without him, alone or with others.
   
9. I feel as if I am never justified in being angry with him.
   

I am going to a counselor today to talk about this. I did not tell my husband. I fear he would tell me it's stupid and a waste of time. I also don't think he would ever go to counseling with me. But I never asked him to.

In general, I feel like my life is empty and meaningless and that I have no real future; that I am just biding my time, living by default, waiting to get old and die. I enjoy lots of things but they don’t bring my life real meaning. I don't know what would. (I know I spoke of a family before but truthfully I never really wanted to raise a child, I just see people with families and assumed that might be an answer to happiness and purpose in life.)

I feel like I am stupid and a failure for not knowing how to be happy and how to manage my marriage and to communicate. I worry that these are such simple, small, non-problems in the scheme of life. I hate the thought of getting divorced just because I'm not happy right now, and honestly don't know what would make me happy anyway.

I'm not good alone. I know I need someone to be held accountable to, or else I tend to get reckless and again, the meaninglessness of life leads me to meander and flail without direction, to be impulsive. I don't want to be that way. I know I need stability.

If he's mentally and verbally abusive, discuss that with the therapist. Also discuss an exit plan.

He is not bipolar but sometimes I think he exhibits some of those traits. He has these creative, productive highs, followed by lows when he wants to throw it all away and isn't interested in anything.

Last week we had a few wonderful days. We went for a hike, went to a fall festival. Spontaneous and happy. He was a good partner and helpful. The day before yesterday I spent the evening at a friend's house carving pumpkins and making sugar cookies with her and her toddler. It was SO much fun. I was really glad I did that. He didn't seem to care or judge me for it at all. I don't think it bothered him in any way that I did something fun without him. Not this thing, anyway. But last night he was upset about something and he said it had nothing to do with me but I still felt like I was in a house with someone who didn't like me. And he was critical and judgmental of me doing things on my own. I just never know what to expect at home, I guess. So I tend to either agonize and find whatever bothers him least, or be what feels like an uncaring meanie, doing my own thing and not acknowledging him.

Is it verbally abusive if you're in an argument and he says "You're a moron!"

Honestly, if I get divorced I will feel like my life is over. I don't have anything in life. My job is just a job, it's not a life's calling. I mean nothing to anyone except our families and to them I would feel so ashamed of this. I will feel really ashamed and alone. I also wonder if divorce is too dramatic and final because on those happy days when he's his old self it's like, he's still in there somewhere. I ask myself why did this happen? Is it the graduate school program? Was it me? Is it the illness?

Is it verbally abusive if you're in an argument and he says "You're a moron!"

Yes, that is emotional abuse. Plan your exit.

That's what you're paying the therapist to determine and advise you.

Is it verbally abusive if you're in an argument and he says "You're a moron!"

Have you noticed a bigger rift since the time you overstepped your bounds by making up those fake reviews and fake social media accounts to promote his work? I know that he was beside himself with what you did there and didn't trust you/pushed you out a little after that.

From your other threads about work and other things, you do tend to exhaustively analyze every person and their intentions, so maybe you should bring that up as well.

I think that if he is having a funky day and doesn't want any part of anything -- you go about your day and leave him be and you have just recently been doing that, right?

I agree, talk to the therapist, but i also think you should figure out why you thrive on/are attracted to this dynamic so that you don't repeat it with someone else if you do leave your husband - and maybe if you do stay, you can shift your part of the dynamic.

His chronic illness will remain with him for a lifetime, and so will his depression unless he receives treatment for it. I experienced similar problems in my first marriage. When I got to the point of asking for a divorce, he didn't want that and agreed to treatment for depression. For 2 years, my marriage improved because of his choice to be on anti-depressants and psychiatric care. At that point, he all of a sudden said he never meant to be on the meds for a lifetime and decided to wean himself off. I begged him not to but he did, and over the years, things became even worse than before. We sought marital therapy, but he really didn't want to be there and I finally divorced him because instead of having warm fuzzy feelings about growing old together, I felt like a weight would be lifted off my chest if we divorced.

What would I do in your shoes? Immediately have a discussion of communication rules. No name calling should be the first thing on the list. This causes bitterness and instead of discussing problems in a constructive way, you're attacking the person by being demeaning. Same thing with the disrespectful and hateful statements of "shut up" and "get out of here." You're the lifetime companion he chose above all other women on earth and he's speaking to you like this? I hate to see how he treats someone he doesn't like.

Don't stay with someone because of what relatives or friends will think if a divorce happens. You don't make decisions for their lives, and they don't get a say-so on your one precious life on this planet.

Do what I did. Pull out all the stops to make it work and if it doesn't after all of your efforts, at least you can say you tried. After your therapy session, tell him you've gone and now you want to seek couples counseling. This will show him the seriousness of the matter. If he values the marriage, he will agree and maybe over time, positive changes can happen. If he refuses, you owe it to yourself to create a happy life without him.

This means staying alone a minimum of a year and spend time with girlfriends, family, and perhaps a new hobby. You're probably like me in that you like having a lifetime companion to eat with, sleep with, and spend leisure time with. After my divorce, I made it my goal to find a man worthy of me. I made mistakes over the years but eventually found my future husband and am now living a far happier life. I hope the same for you. Take care.

Well, I understand that you're not happy, but you're with someone with chronic illnesses. Depression, migraines and bowel problems are debilitating and they make someone a miserable human being. It would take an exceptional person to be able to be happy in this situation. It would certainly explain why your husband has good periods of time and bad periods.

But I would say that you haven't developed a hard shell, as you should have, to deal with your husband's problems. You're making it about you when it's actually the illnesses talking.

Whenever someone tried to pick an argument with my grandmother, she would dismiss it by saying "don't be foolish" and walk away. You need to develop a similar attitude. When your husband gets out of sorts, tell him it's the migraine talking or the IBS talking and you can talk about things later. You can even tell him, "don't be foolish" and walk away. He tells you it's not about you, it's him, but you seem to take it all personally. I would have thought by now you could recognize when he's in a bad mood or he's in pain and learned how to deal with it.

You have all the symptoms of an emotional abuse victim but I don't think your husband is intentionally abusing you. You need to develop your own life, develop your own interests and hobbies and friends. You need to be independent. If you want to do something, do it! If your husband says something disparaging, that's just the grumpiness talking. If your husband doesn't want to go outside, it doesn't mean you have to sit there in the dark with him. Go out. You can keep inviting him along, but if he doesn't want to come, then let him stay at home.

Think of what your husband has as a handicap. Would you feel guilty if your husband couldn't walk and was in a wheelchair? Would you think it was your fault? Would you feel guilty if he couldn't do something but encouraged you to do it?

You can actually learn about how to handle this situation by Googling how to deal with someone with depression and how to deal with emotional abuse. The advice is the same I would give you in your situation, such as:

(paraphrased) Don’t underestimate the seriousness of his illness. It drains a person’s energy, optimism, and motivation. He can't just “snap out of it” by sheer force of will. It isn't personal. Illness makes it difficult for a person to connect on a deep emotional level with anyone, even the people he loves most. They often say hurtful things and lash out in anger. Remember that this is the illness talking, not your loved one, so try not to take it personally. And you can't fix it. You’re not to blame for his happiness (or lack thereof).

Hopefully a counselor can help you through some of this.

The pain of my Crohn's has literally made me sweat buckets at times, and I have a pretty high pain tolerance. Add to that his other illnesses... his unhappiness and frustration is understandable.

It's difficult for someone that doesn't have a chronic illness to understand what it's like. I am very lucky to be in remission but I still get flare ups, and have some major food intolerances that make me a pain in the arse to socialize with if the activity revolves around food. I get very anxious about my situation at times and it can come across as being impatient, intolerant or anti-social.

That all being said... no matter what his deal is, whether it's a mental or physical illness, it's not an excuse to be emotionally abusive. Calling you names, judging and criticizing you, is hurtful and unnecessary. And... you can't fix him. No matter how far backwards you bend or how much of a pretzel you turn yourself into, you will never be able to change him or make him happy... his happiness is his responsibility. You can however set a boundary and tell him he needs to step up and participate in the change if he wants to continue the relationship. This is not all on you, and it takes two people to make a relationship work.

Would you feel guilty if your husband couldn't walk and was in a wheelchair? Would you think it was your fault? Would you feel guilty if he couldn't do something but encouraged you to do it?

Probably.

The counselor was very helpful. After the session I felt very vulnerable but ultimately good, and optimistic. I really liked her and her style so I'm going to stick with her. I'm going back in 2 weeks - I wanted some time to work on what we talked about in that first session, and see how it plays out.

If any partner were to call me an idiot or moron, all else would be irrelevant. It would sum up all I'd need to know, and I'd thank him for simplifying my decision for me.

If any partner were to call me an idiot or moron, all else would be irrelevant. It would sum up all I'd need to know, and I'd thank him for simplifying my decision for me.

If I did something that was 12 on the scale of one to 10 of things that were very idiotic and a guy called me an idiot, I'd call him out on it. In a conversation later on, I'd talk about how it makes me feel and why i won't accept it in the future. If he says it again - then that's different. There are people who grow up with it liberally sprinkled in conversation and its a part of the way their family talked. Some people don't realize it comes out. I would not walk out the door if it was said once in a marriage -- but if after a conversation there was no change and no self awareness, thats different. If a date said it -- yup, i'd be gone.

If I did something that was 12 on the scale of one to 10 of things that were very idiotic and a guy called me an idiot, I'd call him out on it. In a conversation later on, I'd talk about how it makes me feel and why i won't accept it in the future. If he says it again - then that's different. There are people who grow up with it liberally sprinkled in conversation and its a part of the way their family talked. Some people don't realize it comes out. I would not walk out the door if it was said once in a marriage -- but if after a conversation there was no change and no self awareness, thats different. If a date said it -- yup, i'd be gone.

Yes, I wanted to thank you for posting this. Context and timing matters. And each couple is different in what their boundaries are as far as personal insults. Sure, couples who are not into S&M probably all agree that physically smacking someone is a dealbreaker (well again it depends -is the smack because the person is histrionic and the other wants them somehow to calm down) -but labeling personal insults as emotional abuse or a dealbreaker no matter what is too extreme IMO. There are times I really would have understood if my partner called me an idiot or a moron (no, he didn't -and yes he's probably described behavior of mine as "idiotic" and I'm sure I've called his behavior "jerky" ) because I knew I'd behaved like one. And again it depends on your personal boundaries so in the OP's case I'd need to know more. And yes most couples have terms that they will not tolerate that others might - and sometimes it's not obvious and needs to be communicated.

Is it verbally abusive if you're in an argument and he says "You're a moron!"

yes.

What concerns me more is you are here asking if it's ok that your husband calls you a moron or stupid.

Your last list `I am guilty' is very telling

You've become the human sponge for all that is wrong with him and your marriage.

I could go on and on but there is sooo much to cover based on what you just wrote and not enough space here.

I will end this with I wish you the best in therapy and please take with you what you just shared with us.

I was you once. Different set of circumstances but living in an estranged marriage where I became and allowed myself to be the dumping ground for everything that was toxic in it.

You are piling all of this on yourself because you have learned that you have no control over his behaviors, so if you can make this all about you then maybe you can do something about it.

Along the way, you lose yourself. The fact that you state you would be lost without your marriage suggests that.

I wish you well on your journey. It's a long, but worth while one.

You'll be fine, I promise.

Been there, done that.

In the meantime google or find books on emotional abuse. You will find yourself there.

It is amazing how much a counselor can help, and even more amazing how much can change in a relatively short period of time.

I wanted to jot down some of my thoughts.

I must accept that he needs to be allowed to have moods, to be miserable, and to know that the people around him (i.e. me) will support him, forgive him, and permit him to be miserable, acknowledging his feelings and the validity of them, rather than trying to help fix things or further burden him with how his feelings make me feel.

He gets down in the dumps for different reasons, sometimes multiple reasons at one time. He goes through periods of high-stress when producing and promoting his creative work (which contributes to feelings of vulnerability and potentially being judged), big milestones in the completion of his dissertation, and the times when his health is bad and just wears him down physically.

And I also must tell him what I need from him as a partner, and to acknowledge to myself that what I want and need is OK. It's reasonable to be concerned about how my partner's perspective will affect my life.

There is quite a lot I've been stressed about that ultimately is such little trivial nothings when I really think about it. I must remind myself to prioritize our relationship. I've stressed about saying the right things, having the right response and reaction, or maintaining a lifestyle for us that is fun and interesting - and that all comes from a surface perspective, a self-involved idea that the relationship depends on my being a certain way, or in trying to keep him happy or distracted - instead of simply being myself and securely accepting that that's good enough.

And furthermore, no matter what he does, or how he feels, the only way I'll ever find meaning in my life is if I find it, or generate it. Focusing on him is just a distraction. But if I make a big impact on his life, that will not necessarily make my life meaningful. And he knows this and instinctively pushes it away. Without using words, he's basically saying that he's working on his own life's meaning and he doesn't want me to take that and make it mine, too. So that's not pushing me away or not needing me. It's just his independence of identity, which, if I respect him, I will also respect.