Is it Worth Continuing?

Brief: ~2 months. Both early 30s. She's immigrant, broken english, inexperienced, never kissed (due to crazy country). I'm late stage PTSD/anxiety recovery; extremely rusty with women. Began getting to know eachother, fell for eachother, I became super clingy, she friend-zoned me. Now back together again.

On date recently. Lots of fun, touching, play. Our heads were really close and I was signalling I was going to kiss her (expecting a last second OK); she didn't seem to pick up on it. After a moment she sat back in her chair - calmly, not swiftly. I said, "What?", she replied with a completely blank, maybe even confused, expression, "You have crazy eyes for me." I nearly died laughing. The day continued on with lots of fun and she SMS'd me sweetly after.

While SMSing, she asked, "Why did you look at me that way [at the location]". I was really hurting over the rejection, and replied, "Maybe I should have crazy eyes for another girl". She said, "Sorry [pet name]. It just seemed like you were going to stick around my lips..." adding something that I couldn't understand. I asked her to clarify, and she said, "You looked as if you were eating me with your eyes. Understand?"

I was so hurt by the rejection at this stage - the words and actions cut so deep, even though they seem to have been innocent. I just couldn't reply. I didn't contact her for a few days (uncommon for us). She didn't try to contact me to see if anything was wrong.

I realise she is inexperienced and I am rusty - those are part of it. But I also don't feel like she is really interested. She also hasn't put basically any effort in recently - I'm setting up the dates etc. She's having fun - we had a great time - but I also think my clingy-ness and the friend-zoning is still fresh, that she is just taking me for granted/doesn't respect me/doesn't care much - definitely doesn't give two hoots about my health circumstances. I think she still experiences me as weak, which I'm trying to fix. I feel it's too soon and rocky to have a serious conversation - she'll just see it as further weakness and punish it. She's kind of punished away my feelings for her; I can only honestly say I "like" her now, although there is still a strong attachment. Our conversations are fun but devoid of care/connection - there isn't the romance/suggestions/offers coming from her that were present previously; and I'm extremely hesitant about suggesting that I care - I don't want to be punished, I don't want her to see me as weak. I don't trust her at all right now; I feel like she would cut me and leave very quickly; I don't know where I stand with her. I want to trust her more; I want more love.

Stick it out for a while, or cut my losses? My circumstances are very limiting - I do like her; it is good practice... but I am looking for long-term.

I don't see the point in continuing this, to be perfectly honest.

She might have some extenuating circumstances due to her cultural background, but it sounds to me like she sees you only as a friend. This isn't dating anymore and I don't know much clearer she could make that, apart from actually telling you she isn't interested.

This isn't the right woman for you, OP.

I don't think she's interested. You tried to kiss her and she pulled away. You seem really untrusting of her and fearful. It shouldn't be like that.

Yeah, what is her cultural background? Is she a virgin? You said she's never been kissed before. Was she raped? She may not know what's happening. She might be like a little girl emotionally. Maybe she is asexual and no man has ever been that interested in her before so this is all new to her. Tell her to close her eyes when you kiss her. You're immediately trying to blame yourself for what is happening, but that could just be your PTSD talking. You know, to women raised in a strict, conservative environment, the whole idea of sex might be icky to someone who doesn't know anything about it. You sure need to take things slowly, but if you're not getting anywhere after a few more dates, then you need to move on. And stop blaming yourself.

Think of a puzzle. Whenever you try to match two pieces that don't fit together, do you assign 'blame' to either piece or regard either as 'wrong'? What would happen to the outcome of your puzzle if you insist on forcing a fit between pieces that don't match?

One problem with being rusty is that you've conditioned yourself to believe in scarcity--so you view this one girl as your 'only chance' and you're trying to force a fit. The problem with dating someone who's incompatible is that you keep feeling lousy about yourself because it doesn't 'work'.

Most people are NOT our match. That's just natural odds. Incompatibility is not a reflection on you, but in this instance, you can't resist making it about you. Why not consider your feelings toward this girl to be your signal that you are ready to pursue a healthy relationship with someone who 'gets you' and with whom you can enjoy great simpatico, instead?

This girl is not that person. She doesn't own the capacity to view you through the right lens. So consider finding meetup.org communities for exploring interests, OR, consider using dating apps to set up quick meets for coffee with strangers on your way home from work. Whenever someone doesn't show, just take your coffee with you and nothing is lost. Rules are that you spend 15 or 20 minutes to check one another out. Neither can ask the other for a real date on the spot, but either can invite the other afterward. If the answer is yes, the other responds, and if not, then no response is necessary.

Quick meets are a common use of dating apps these days instead of investing in full dates. You can decide on attraction with most people after only 5 minutes. So just keep meeting people to see if they attract you enough to date. When they don't, move on to the next person until you strike good simpatico. It's a 'needle in the haystack' pursuit for everyone, so it's a level playing field.

With millions of people in the world, allow bad matches to pass early, and don't invest in anyone who makes you feel lousy.

Head high.

Yeah, what is her cultural background? Is she a virgin? You said she's never been kissed before. Was she raped? She may not know what's happening. She might be like a little girl emotionally. Maybe she is asexual and no man has ever been that interested in her before so this is all new to her. Tell her to close her eyes when you kiss her. You're immediately trying to blame yourself for what is happening, but that could just be your PTSD talking. You know, to women raised in a strict, conservative environment, the whole idea of sex might be icky to someone who doesn't know anything about it. You sure need to take things slowly, but if you're not getting anywhere after a few more dates, then you need to move on. And stop blaming yourself.

In her country, it's not safe for women. They get taken from their families by powerful men and kept for pleasure. Women flee. Relationships are forbidden, only happen in secret, and doing-so is very dangerous. From what I understand, she has mostly stayed with women for security and focused on migrating. Edit: I don't think she has sexual trauma.

I understand that she's just never been close to a guy and is conservative. When we were going through the honeymoon phase, I had clear signs that she had never felt like this before (to this extreme).

These days, usually she just waits, expecting me to make her feel good. She seems to have learned most of what she knows from me, and some tips from a friend of hers. But she doesn't move or do anything, and it's very hard to read her because communication is such a big problem. It's very hard to make jokes, tell stories/banter, with such a limited palette - I have to think very carefully, use blunt sentences, and speak slowly. She has to think the same. It's not always so bad, especially when hand actions or things in the environment are involved. We do use translation services a lot.

You're right that I need to stop blaming myself. It is so hard. It is the PTSD talking - the inner critic is a defense to the wounded inner child; probably to protect against future harm - small or even perceived slights become completely inflamed because of the scale of the trauma. It's hard to just have fun, or adopt a casual, fun persona anymore - which, for me, involves a kind of pushing outward against the trauma - pushing through challenges rather than healing through them calmly, or shying away from them. It's the only way I can avoid being "a vulnerable person". But when my energy runs out, the trauma fights back, like a rubberband, and I have a slew of hard-to-manage reactions - some of which are empowering and motivating and help break through the trauma, but others just crush my ability to function until I've sat through them. We all have these insecurities of course, but the trauma just inflames the scale of the reactions like putting gasoline on a bonfire.

The thing is, my trauma exists, and these problematic reactions for me would be the same with any girl. Right now, I find myself shutting down to her because I don't want to let her in - the repeated hurts, it's just so hard to overcome.

I keep working on my trauma every day - and am making massive gains, but it's healing the unknown - "completion", if it does come, could be weeks away, it could be a year, it could be twenty.

I don't think it's worth continuing, no. This should be the time where things are fun and a rapport is being built.

You've got challenges heaped onto challenges here. Even if you were not dealing with PTSD, which you are, anyone would have extra troubles without common language and some commonalities in experience to relate to. Add to this, her very particular life experience and yours - it's a recipe for misunderstandings.

Like catfeeder said, choosing a situation so incompatible and needlessly challenging will only reinforce for you this belief you have that you have extremely limited options based on who you are. It's not an accurate gauge at all of what is truly available for you.

I received treatment for PTSD as well. I can relate to the special difficulties in navigating relationships and dating while dealing with that. And though my life is exponentially better now since treatment, like you said, there are things that will probably be a part of me as long as I live to some degree or another. It was extremely important to me when looking for long term that the person be able to accept and allow for this, not because I don't work on it, but because I've had enough trouble with accepting it myself and that loving understanding means a whole lot .

Keep on your path and keep at the dating. You haven't done anything wrong. You tried with someone you like. That's practice, it's good you are putting yourself out there.

Just consider that maybe this one was simple not going to be a match anyways.