Another first date - how not to screw up (again)

Most of you may already know me and that I am clueless with women so here we go - another set of questions and advice requests.

I was on a first date with a new girl and it was great. There was hugging, touching, caressing (no kisses this time ) - 5 hours of joy. It seems there is attraction on both sides, but:

1) How not to screw things up again? This time there won't be any invitations home (yeah, I know already ) but apart from that - it's hard for me to come up with some "plan" that won't scare her away. And by "plan" I don't mean like playing some games, just what would be appropriate and what wouldn't in order to have the best chance possible.

2) After every first date that goes well and there is mutual attraction, I tend to torture myself with all kinds of questions and fears. What should I do know, how do I proceed, what if she suddenly does a 180 degree turn, what lies ahead etc. It is much easier when a date doesn't turn out to be good (I don't like the girl or she doesn't like me) - I am used to rejection and brush it off. But if there is the slightest chance something good could happen, I start to worry about all kinds of things. It's like walking on eggshells, shells that I myself am putting on my pathway. I am now just too tired (I am approaching the number of 30 new girls met for the past year or so) and I want to settle down. And the fact that I am single for a long time now (almost 2 years) doesn't make it easier for me...

Five hours was far too long for a first date. You should have limited it to 2. Take a day-by-day attitude. When you ask her to spend time together, be in the present only, with the goal of enjoying a nice walk or a good meal with an interesting person. Don't project forward in time of what she might end up being to you, i.e. lifetime companion. She will sense this and be scared away.

Share who you are with her and take an interest in her life. Take signals from her for if she wants to hold hands, etc. Nobody has a crystal ball. The only control you have is to be yourself and a person who is kind and respectful. It does take dating a boatload of women to find a good match, so keep on until you find one. I know I had to put in a lot of work to find my husband. Take care.

Honestly, she was even suggesting that we continue the date somewhere else (a restaurant or so), but she had to go home because she'd arranged for a friend of hers to take some belongings. The time just went by so fast, maybe because we felt good with each other. That thing with the day-to-day attitude is very good advice! I am guilty of doing exactly the opposite Like you said - project forward in time what she might be to me some day...

Never mind, I appreciate your opinion! I know it takes dating a lot of people until you find the right match (well, at least for some people) but it's exhausting sometimes.

Five hours was far too long for a first date. You should have limited it to 2. Take a day-by-day attitude. When you ask her to spend time together, be in the present only, with the goal of enjoying a nice walk or a good meal with an interesting person. Don't project forward in time of what she might end up being to you, i.e. lifetime companion. She will sense this and be scared away.

 

Share who you are with her and take an interest in her life. Take signals from her for if she wants to hold hands, etc. Nobody has a crystal ball. The only control you have is to be yourself and a person who is kind and respectful. It does take dating a boatload of women to find a good match, so keep on until you find one. I know I had to put in a lot of work to find my husband. Take care.

Nah! I disagree with this. One of my best dates lasted 4 to 5 hours and it was a blast. I mean why not wing it while it lasts. I mean why have a timescale? Times flies when your having fun. Why tell the poster to say cut a date short when he mentioned it was 5 hours of joy. If theres a connection then why let it stop.

Ive been on short dates and the shortest one was just 2 hours. I felt I didn't get to know that person and walked away thinking it was far too short to get to know someone. I did manage to get a few more dates after but I think you should have fun and see where it goes. I mean I would understand if there wasn't a connection and nothing in common but to tell someone to limit a date doesn't make sense. It might give his the impression he wasn't interest and say "Well, that date didn't last long"!

I would ask the poster to enjoy every day as it comes and take as long as you like. There is no such thing as a timescale to work on. You don't cut a date short because its over 2 hours. You don't text back after 3 days and ll these idiotic rules. Just be yourself and do what YOU think its right because YOUR ACTIONS are a reflection of you and not timescales.

time isnt really a factor. If you aint feeling it youll be looking for an excuse to leave, but if you two are into each other itll last longer.

A little update: 5 dates later and I still don't know where I stand with her Spending time with her is great, the conversations are deep (we seem to be on the same intellectual level), we kiss, hold hands, call each other sweet names etc. (had sex, too). Yet I am still too insecure and feel a lot of pressure (coming from myself). I am constantly worrying about not screwing things up, imagine her suddenly making a 180-degree turn, losing this "opportunity" and so on. All this is gained since my last serious relationship ended (2 years ago) and afterwards while dating different women and experiencing a whole range of negative events. I became completely different person and I just don't know how/if I will be able to be in a relationship anymore...

A little update: 5 dates later and I still don't know where I stand with her Spending time with her is great, the conversations are deep (we seem to be on the same intellectual level), we kiss, hold hands, call each other sweet names etc. (had sex, too). Yet I am still too insecure and feel a lot of pressure (coming from myself). I am constantly worrying about not screwing things up, imagine her suddenly making a 180-degree turn, losing this "opportunity" and so on. All this is gained since my last serious relationship ended (2 years ago) and afterwards while dating different women and experiencing a whole range of negative events. I became completely different person and I just don't know how/if I will be able to be in a relationship anymore...

What do you mean "where you stand?" The only thing that should be on your mind is asking her out again. If she says "yes", then you didn't screw up. If she is contacting you sometimes without contacting her and she is accepting invites to dates, you are doing fine.

But, having sex with someone that quick is too soon! If you are insecure, now there is even more confusion. I do think that if the first date was about "caressing" and you are already calling eachother sweet nicknames, the relationship is heavy on physical attraction and infatuation at this point.

You had sex waaay too soon. if you know you are insecure, take things slow -- have actual dates.

just focus on getting to know her and if this woman is someone that you want to continue to keep dating (its harder when you had sex already to walk away if there are any incompatibilities)

My goodness, the extreme anxiety you're experiencing seems disproportionate to the amount of dates you've had with this girl (or any amount of dates for that matter).

Have you spoken with anyone about your anxiety, like a professional? I'm sort of adverse to meds, but in this case, I dunno, they may be warranted in your case.

Dating is supposed to be fun! Is this fun for you? It sure doesn't sound like it!

JMO but if you don't get a handle on your anxiety, either with meds or managing on your own, you are going to subconsciously self-sabotage every RL and dating experience you have.

I used to struggle with MAJOR anxiety, so I know how it goes --- good luck!

What do you mean "where you stand?" The only thing that should be on your mind is asking her out again. If she says "yes", then you didn't screw up. If she is contacting you sometimes without contacting her and she is accepting invites to dates, you are doing fine.

 

But, having sex with someone that quick is too soon! If you are insecure, now there is even more confusion. I do think that if the first date was about "caressing" and you are already calling eachother sweet nicknames, the relationship is heavy on physical attraction and infatuation at this point.

 

You had sex waaay too soon. if you know you are insecure, take things slow -- have actual dates.

We have an arrangement for Saturday, so I guess I didn't screw up. She is contacting me sometimes, although I am the one that does it most of the times). Having sex was not something that I pushed for (not at all), it just happened because she invited me on a dinner at her place and then proposed that I stay for the night...

My goodness, the extreme anxiety you're experiencing seems disproportionate to the amount of dates you've had with this girl (or any amount of dates for that matter).

 

Have you spoken with anyone about your anxiety, like a professional? I'm sort of adverse to meds, but in this case, I dunno, they may be warranted in your case.

 

Dating is supposed to be fun! Is this fun for you? It sure doesn't sound like it!

 

JMO but if you don't get a handle on your anxiety, either with meds or managing on your own, you are going to subconsciously self-sabotage every RL and dating experience you have.

 

I used to struggle with MAJOR anxiety, so I know how it goes --- good luck!

Yes, I was going to councelling last year and in the beginning of this one. It helped me realize a lot of things but I am not free of anxiety. In fact it gets worse with every new woman I meet. I have met more than 20 new women for the past year or so and every rejection, every hope that something could happen, every missed oportunity just makes things worse. All this experience and feeling of hopelessness makes me bigger and bigger mess. My self-esteem hits rock bottom, my belief that I can be loved and can find a woman I can spend my life with is almost gone. All that given the fact that I was the total opposite just a couple of years ago, I don't know what went wrong but I am completely different person and not for the better... Dating is supposed to be fun and I enjoy my dates a lot but it is the time I am not with the girl that is hard for me. I am constantly wondering if she will somehow change her mind and wouldn't want to date me anymore. I am seeking validation and want her to text/call me (or answer my texts/calls for that purpose) so I feel calm and wanted. I seek reassurance through questioning her sometimes, like yesterday when she "left me on read" when asked about if she wants to go out on a date on X day, only to turn out that she was busy and angry about some things happening at work (while I couldn't resist and asked her why she didn't answer and if that was a sign she doesn't want to date me anymore). Yet I can't help but panic and need answers in such moments, because I feel extremely needy and insecure. All that I can do is acknowledge this feeling but not acting on it is almost impossible. It's eating me from the inside... So I guess everything I suffer from can be described as simple as:

- low self-esteem (mostly when it comes to dating/communication with women; I have good friends, a decent job, master's degree in engineering and IQ way above average but when it comes to women I am total zero)

- neediness (probably related to the above; after breaking up with my ex 2 years ago I felt not good enough to be loved and to be somebody's SO; going out with more than 20 women for the past year and not being able to start a relationship, although there was good probability with some of them, just strengthened this belief of mine so now I doubt in every situation when a girl is involved and I need approval/reassurance that everything is OK)

- insecurity (I guess this coincides with the above, are they synonyms or something like that? I am in constant fear that I will screw things up, that a girl I am dating will suddenly stop liking me, that I will be alone forever and so on)

- hopelessness (I am 31 now and all this experience from the past couple of years just makes it worse for me; I feel I will never find a woman that can be with me and all that awaits me is a lonely life getting older; additionally I seem to not think about two people being with each other like equal beings but like I am in a somewhat lower position and I have to live up to the woman's standards in order to be selected as a mate...)

A little update: 5 dates later and I still don't know where I stand with her Spending time with her is great, the conversations are deep (we seem to be on the same intellectual level), we kiss, hold hands, call each other sweet names etc. (had sex, too). Yet I am still too insecure and feel a lot of pressure (coming from myself). I am constantly worrying about not screwing things up, imagine her suddenly making a 180-degree turn, losing this "opportunity" and so on. All this is gained since my last serious relationship ended (2 years ago) and afterwards while dating different women and experiencing a whole range of negative events. I became completely different person and I just don't know how/if I will be able to be in a relationship anymore...

You don't get to five dates and not know where you stand. If a woman isn't interested you won't get past one or two. So she's interested.

Understand that most dating won't lead to anything serious. There's nothing wrong with you. There's no need to feel so insecure. What you're experiencing is what even the most confident men experience. People make 180 degree turns all the time. It is often unexpected, and of course very disappointing.

Look at dating as a fun activity, and an opportunity to meet more women. Stop worrying about losing this 'opportunity'. There's a bazillion other opportunities out there. There isn't a scarcity of opportunity. Don't look at it so serious. The best thing you can do is care less. Don't be apathetic. But care less. You're not as fine with rejection as you say. You're O.K with immediate rejection. Get used to longer term rejection. That means picking yourself up after a bad fall and keep going. Being able to move on easily and not getting bogged down with dating is healthy and attractive.

We have an arrangement for Saturday, so I guess I didn't screw up. She is contacting me sometimes, although I am the one that does it most of the times). Having sex was not something that I pushed for (not at all), it just happened because she invited me on a dinner at her place and then proposed that I stay for the night...

good you didn't push but you also don't have to just be a spectator. If you have not talked about protection, if you have not asked if she was dating anyone else (you have a right to know if she is sleeping with someone else or has recently to make that decision for your own safety). If you have not had those conversations, you don't know her well enough. A woman who is interested in you wouldn't be offended if you wanted to wait a bit..... and for your anxiety, you need to. WEll, the horse is out of the barn now -- so there is nothing you can do -- but going forward - make sure to go on dates and do activities instead of everything being touchy feely.

Having just read your list of anxieties I can't help but wonder if you are even `dating ready' It seems there is so much self worth tied up on being accepted by these women and one small twist could feel catastrophic in your case.

I don't mean to sound insensitive. I've been there and knew well enough to not date when I wasn't able to date from a fairly solid foundation.

You spend some more time gathering yourself together before you take your show on the road, not the other way around. Don't go looking for self esteme tied to a successful dating experience.

But, you've been successfully dating a woman and things are going well. I would try to live in the moment and enjoy her company. Try not to forecast in to the future and have expectations at this point.

When I catch myself feeling anxious, I tend to justify doing something to calm my anxiety. It typically leads me down the wrong path. You describe wanting reassurance or reaching out when you know you probably shouldn't. In those moments I ask myself out loud `It this a good idea or am I just trying to calm my anxiety' When I've gotten to the point I have to question myself, it's typically the later and I figure it's probably not a good idea to act on it and I figure out another way to ease my anxiety. You need to learn to self soothe.

I agree with others. If you've gotten this far, she likes you.

I know telling you to try not to worry is pointless. But seriously, when you are spiraling down this path, find something to do.

Your thoughts are choice and you can learn to choose them differently.

Good luck

good you didn't push but you also don't have to just be a spectator. If you have not talked about protection, if you have not asked if she was dating anyone else (you have a right to know if she is sleeping with someone else or has recently to make that decision for your own safety). If you have not had those conversations, you don't know her well enough. A woman who is interested in you wouldn't be offended if you wanted to wait a bit..... and for your anxiety, you need to. WEll, the horse is out of the barn now -- so there is nothing you can do -- but going forward - make sure to go on dates and do activities instead of everything being touchy feely.

We did talk about previous partners, what's going on at the moment and so on. She is not dating anyone else so I think I am fairly safe in that respect. More than that - we had a lot of conversations, she is very open person and shares much information about herself which is great! She opens up to me and she is the kind of person that says everything as it is, without me having to guess or wonder. I am a man so I think simple and straightforward and she makes it easy for me - she says what she likes and what she doesn't. Hell, it is even true when being intimate, I like it! It is much more easier that way. As for activities - we are going to spend the weekend at some city in a neighbouring country (not far away, something like 100 miles) so we won't be touchy all the time I guess

Having just read your list of anxieties I can't help but wonder if you are even `dating ready' It seems there is so much self worth tied up on being accepted by these women and one small twist could feel catastrophic in your case.

 

I don't mean to sound insensitive. I've been there and knew well enough to not date when I wasn't able to date from a fairly solid foundation.

 

You spend some more time gathering yourself together before you take your show on the road, not the other way around. Don't go looking for self esteme tied to a successful dating experience.

 

But, you've been successfully dating a woman and things are going well. I would try to live in the moment and enjoy her company. Try not to forecast in to the future and have expectations at this point.

 

When I catch myself feeling anxious, I tend to justify doing something to calm my anxiety. It typically leads me down the wrong path. You describe wanting reassurance or reaching out when you know you probably shouldn't. In those moments I ask myself out loud `It this a good idea or am I just trying to calm my anxiety' When I've gotten to the point I have to question myself, it's typically the later and I figure it's probably not a good idea to act on it and I figure out another way to ease my anxiety. You need to learn to self soothe.

 

I agree with others. If you've gotten this far, she likes you.

I know telling you to try not to worry is pointless. But seriously, when you are spiraling down this path, find something to do.

Your thoughts are choice and you can learn to choose them differently.

 

Good luck

Honestly, I don't know if I will ever be "dating ready". I haven't had serious relationship for two years now and I have completely moved on from my ex, so it is enough for me. Not that I don't want to deal with my issues but I don't know if I will ever be able to do it completely. I have read a ton of books and advices on the internet for the past two years and I can say that I feel that I've improved myself at least a little bit but knowledge is never enough. I do know that my self worth is tied to being accepted. But as I said I don't know if I will ever get to the point of having gathered myself together so I am dating now, as broken as I could be Meanwhile, we were going to spend the last evening at some restaurant but when we met she offered to go to her place while her housemate wasn't there (she was returning later in the evening). Well, no need to tell you going to her place was "pleasant" Now she is even warmer and initiates conversations, sends me kisses and so on...

Just breath. . .and have fun. The rest will come.

Wishing you the best!

Thanks! Meanwhile we were on a trip for the weekend and we became even closer (physically and mentally). But once we are back at home and we are not together, I start feeling doubts again. I look forward to every text or call from her, I don't feel calm that things are going in a good direction (while they can't be better than that), I am anxious about her leaving any moment (not that logically there's a reason to, but these things are never logical nonetheless) and so on. And I think all that is due to my low self-esteem. I just still can't believe that there will be a person that can like me and be with me. I don't feel worthy enough and I fear losing her (or any woman for that reason).

Thanks! Meanwhile we were on a trip for the weekend and we became even closer (physically and mentally). But once we are back at home and we are not together, I start feeling doubts again. I look forward to every text or call from her, I don't feel calm that things are going in a good direction (while they can't be better than that), I am anxious about her leaving any moment (not that logically there's a reason to, but these things are never logical nonetheless) and so on. And I think all that is due to my low self-esteem. I just still can't believe that there will be a person that can like me and be with me. I don't feel worthy enough and I fear losing her (or any woman for that reason).

I’ve been avoiding responding because Infeel t falls on deaf ears but I have to say something.

Beyond talking you off the ledge, I don’t know what you expect us to do to help you here. Your insecurity issues should have been solved before you started dating after so many failures you should have taken a break and took stock instead you just kept going compounding your anxiety and dragging your baggage along with you.

This isn’t just going to disappear. You have to work on yourself. If you choose not to I don’t see any other option but to pull up your big boy pants and deal, either that or you keep posting so we can tell you “ you is good, you is kind” after every date.

bbog, since it seems (as figureitout said) we can't really help you anymore, and what you really need is to share your thoughts/feelings/experiences anyway, might I suggest starting a journal? Check out the journal section, writing your thoughts/feelings can be very calming and cathartic.

I don't keep a journal on this forum but do at home on my iPad, and I post every night. About my day to day experiences, my feelings, my anxieties, etc etc etc. Sometimes my journal entries are long, and sometimes only one or two sentences. They're for me and as I said, they really help me cope.

If you choose to create a journal on this forum, if folks wish to respond they can do so.

JMO but I think it would be quite beneficial to you instead of creating all these various threads about essentially the same thing -- your anxieties, your fears, etc.

I’ve been avoiding responding because Infeel t falls on deaf ears but I have to say something.

 

Beyond talking you off the ledge, I don’t know what you expect us to do to help you here. Your insecurity issues should have been solved before you started dating after so many failures you should have taken a break and took stock instead you just kept going compounding your anxiety and dragging your baggage along with you.

 

This isn’t just going to disappear. You have to work on yourself. If you choose not to I don’t see any other option but to pull up your big boy pants and deal, either that or you keep posting so we can tell you “ you is good, you is kind” after every date.

Maybe I am just venting, I don't know... And I am giving an update to the situation because we've been on 6 dates now and we've got a weekend spent together. I doubt my insecurity issues could be solved completely, but I am reading a lot of info and continue trying to find a way to deal with them. And I can't afford to wait until I solve all my problems before dating, otherwise I won't be dating anymore at all... BTW i found today a thing called "object constancy", do you think it could be linked to some of my problems?

It's going great. She keeps accepting dates, you've been intimate. The interest and momentum are there. Chill and enjoy

we've been on 6 dates now and we've got a weekend spent together.

Well, not so great Last evening I sent her three consecutive messages and although Viber kept saying that she'd been active couple of minutes ago, my messages were still not read. Eventually she saw them but I was left on read. I got angry and called her - it turned out she'd "fallen asleep" (at 10 pm?)... I know nobody owes me anything but I get mad when somebody is lying to me. How are you sleeping and active on the app at the same time?? And even more - she was seen online many times after that (including at 2 am??)... It just doesn't make sense to me, I don't see the logic behind it. So I guess I've screwed things up but it is suspicious to me, I feel something's not right...

Don't get angry and impatient unless you want to end this. Yes, devices can appear "online" and yes, some people go to sleep at 10 pm. Stop crowding her and being demanding and possessive. Do you wish to undermine this? Are you looking for a way out?

It sounds as if you’re smothering her. Take a step back. Sending three consecutive messages and constantly checking to see her activity are obsessive behaviours. Not to mention sometimes when a person received a message the app will say they are active. It doesn’t necessarily mean she is online. You need to stop giving in to your impulses so readily. Learn to say no to yourself when you want to do some obsessive behaviour. For example most of us are addicted to our phones somewhat. I have decided to limit checking my phone to once an hour. Saying no to yourself is not easy, but with time it gets easier. Your will power is like a muscle that needs to be exercised to grow stronger. So when you feel the urge to check her activity or send her another message say no to yourself. With time your obsessive behaviours and urges will lessen. But the more you give in the stronger they become. Hope this helps.